Texas school to offer Bible class

[JennyMominRI]

Jewish people believe in God and my stats are correct 90+% of Americans believe in God.

That doesn't mean that they want religion in the schools..You seem to assume that believeing in G-d = wanting religious references in schools

 

[tar heel]

I used the term Old Testament b/c that's what the class was called. More specifically, it was called Old Testament Literature. It dealt with the entire Old Testament, not just the Torah, and, yes, some of it has evolved through the years. Take the work of the various writers of Isaiah, for example.

I also took a class in college on just Genesis. It was called the Age of the Patriarchs, although I guess it could have been Torah, Part 1! Fascinating class, but there was a lot of Hebrew which put me at a bit of a disadvantage. I still use the textbook -- got it out after I red The Red Tent.

None of the three Bible classes I took in college were religious as in evangelical classes. My OT teacher was an ordained Presbyterian minister. My Genesis teacher was Jewish -- also had him for Ancient Near East. I have no idea whether my New Testament teacher was Christian, but would guess that he probably was.

 

[LoraJ]

So what "blah, blah, blah," says it ok to have gays marry. Why is there a restriction on multiple wives or husbands? Whose morals is that?

I don't know, you tell me. If you want two wives, doesn't bother me. From my research marriage between two people seems to be more of a financial matter in this country than a biblical one.

 

[ford family]

So what are morals (what is right and wrong) based on? If not on God/religious beliefs, then what? An ealier poster said the Bible is just "moralistic faiy tales."

I think morals would have come before God/religious beliefs. Primitive man would have quickly learned that killing or stealing were not compatible with staying on friendly terms with his neighbours. As the family unit and then the community grew, other rules and regulations, moralistic in nature, would have been necessary to prevent anarchy.

I think religion followed, born out of the twin needs to explain what was then unexplainable and having a cadre of people to set and police the community rules. Religions have often been quick to incorporate any pre existing beliefs in order to create a sense of familiarity for their prospective congregation. The assumption of moral values as having a higher authority would be no different.

ford family

 

[JennyMominRI]

Any religion believes that their scripture is "it" or "the truth." .

I just had to come back to this for a second...Not all religions believe they are the *right* ones..Judaism teaches that Judaism is right for Jews. Jewish law applies only to Jews etc. Jews don't seek to make Jewish law the law of the land because it only applies to them. Judaism is right for Jews..It may not be right for you.
I know people whose religions also teach this

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I think morals would have come before God/religious beliefs. Primitive man would have quickly learned that killing or stealing were not compatible with staying on friendly terms with his neighbours. As the family unit and then the community grew, other rules and regulations, moralistic in nature, would have been necessary to prevent anarchy.

I think religion followed, born out of the twin needs to explain what was then unexplainable and having a cadre of people to set and police the community rules. Religions have often been quick to incorporate any pre existing beliefs in order to create a sense of familiarity for their prospective congregation. The assumption of moral values as having a higher authority would be no different.

ford family

While, I don't totally agree (I think God exisited from the very beginning), I thank you for being the first one to give me a civil and logically answer. (I have asked this question a few times in different posts here and elsewhere.)

 

[MosMom]

Why not have a theology class instead of a "bible" class which clearly focuses on only one religious view. I would have no objection to a theology class.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Why not have a theology class instead of a "bible" class which clearly focuses on only one religious view. I would have no objection to a theology class.

I have no problem with comparative religion classes or religions being discussed in historical contexts..I also have no problem with student run bible studies before and after school

 

[helenabear]

One has an Agenda, the other doesn't

It only has an agenda if you let it

Studying any book doesn't have to have an agenda per say... unless the teachers or students taking the class make it have one, it won't!

I don't think anyone is intollerant of anyone's religion. It's just when you refer to the Bible when making laws. i.e. We can't let gays marry because the Bible says blah blah blah. You can believe what you want, just don't force your beliefs on others.

I'm sorry, but when did I say I was a Christian who was forcing beliefs on someone??? That was A HUGE leap there!!!!!! You ought to ask me what I think about homosexuality and marriage and you may find out you are barking up the wrong tree with me

I simply said I was sick to death of "open minded people" jumping on anyone who is religious. Then these "open minded people" sit and trash religion like it is a disease. Where is the tolerance there??? There isn't!

For what it is worth, I am a very politically liberal person, but incredibly tolerant of other religious/spiritual beliefs. I get tired of people claiming to be liberal and open minded and giving true liberals and open minded people a bad name!!! If anyone here thinks that all people here on the DIS are tolerant of all other religions, then they haven't read enough. I've even seen the lack of tolerance happen on this thread itself!

LAst of all,I know MANY Christians who want all religions references kept out of school

I happen to know of one quite personally myself And wouldn't mind it taken out of government either
Yes, I am cool with bible studies in public school, as long as it is no different than any other class offered And I do believe my HS offered a class studying the Christian Bible. They treated it like all the other English lit classes I took my senior year.

 

[wvrevy]

Intolerance for people that believe differently
You should read Jesus' teachings more closely. He demands the exact oposite.

Really ? So, that whole commandment saying that "thou shalt have no god before me" is what...just a suggestion ? People of other faiths are now to be admitted to heaven (making them just as good as people of "The Faith" ?

raging mysogeny....
What? Women in the Bible are treated no differently than other women in the culture of the times. Paul used Women to found his church. Jesus included women in his followers. Try reading Greek myths if you want mysogeny. Should we ban the teaching of Greek mythology too?

So, the Catholics just have it wrong, then ? And the Southern Baptists ? And virtually every other bible thumping group out there ? In virtually no "Christian" religion are women referred to as being equal to men.

the impetus for millions of deaths (from the Inquisition through the Crusades through modern day gay bashing)
Evil people can and do use anything for evil means. It can be religion, govenrment, geography, skin color, economic status or system... The list goes on and on. ANYTHING can be used for evil means, but that doesn't make it the thing being used evil. Should we stop teaching about Democracy? Many have been wrongly killed in its name.

If it "can be" so many things, then why is it nearly always religion ? Even the holocaust during world war II was based on disdain for those of a different religion. You may not like it, but it doesn't take an expert in history to see that the bible - and those that use it to further their cause - has caused more pain, misery, and death in the last two millenia than any other single cause. Period.

the belief that ignorance is somehow superior to knowledge
Show me where in the Bible this beleif is stated. Faith and education can go hand in hand and the Bible actually encourages education.

What was that tree that Eve ate from again ? The fable at the very heart of the entire book is based upon the idea that Adam and Eve represented perfection, so long as they remained ignorant of "good and evil". By gaining knowledge, they fell from grace.

Everything yoiu have mentioned is a misinterpretation based on stereotypes of the Bible. Perhaps if kids studied it, we wouldn't have such misinterpretation, but no, that cant be allowed.

You're right, it can't. So says the constitution. If you want your children indoctrinated into that nonsense, you are free to do so. You are not free to force it onto any other children through a publicly funded school.

 

[pamlet]

I was thinking about this thread while all gassed up in the dentist chair this morning...

The one thing that came to me in that highly enlightened state was that the article is about one school district - and really that school district has the right to do what the members of that school district want....

For example - I was not raised with ANY "religion" - other than a basic Christian background - predominantly protestant. My parents did NOT go to church - my father is a former Roman Catholic - but left that church when he married my mother... who had been reared in an Assembly of God Church. The Assembly of God church would not marry them because my father would not make a "statement of faith"... they ended up getting married in a Baptist Church... hence by the time I came along - neither went to church... but due to my mother's influence she just said she was "protestant". (With that lengthy background...) I went to public grade school in Chicago - every Wednesday afternoon the Roman Catholic kids walked 2 blocks over to the St. Daniels elementary school for catechism... religious training. The "non-catholic" kids stayed behind and usually did some sort of "educational games" or when we were older some of us went down to "help out" the kindergarten classes. I have no idea if this was all over the city - or just our particular district or even school for that matter - I do know that I don't remember ANY animosity on the part of the "non-catholic" families... it was just a way of life. (and believe me - if there was going to be animosity I'd have heard about it... my family discussed all manner of topics, including the Roman Catholic church... but they NEVER begrudged the kids being taught their beliefs).

The point I'm trying to make is that I think that making FEDERAL decisions across the board on this type of thing is wrong - and for matters of what is going on in a school district it's even wrong at the state level- but in this instance it is a school district - and that is where these types of policies should exist....

I'm pretty wordy here - think the nitrous is still w/me...

 

[wvrevy]

I think morals would have come before God/religious beliefs. Primitive man would have quickly learned that killing or stealing were not compatible with staying on friendly terms with his neighbours. As the family unit and then the community grew, other rules and regulations, moralistic in nature, would have been necessary to prevent anarchy.

I think religion followed, born out of the twin needs to explain what was then unexplainable and having a cadre of people to set and police the community rules. Religions have often been quick to incorporate any pre existing beliefs in order to create a sense of familiarity for their prospective congregation. The assumption of moral values as having a higher authority would be no different.

ford family

Holy Cow !! I know you and I have disagreed on things before, but I would not argue with a single word of this !

Very well said !

 

[wvrevy]

The point I'm trying to make is that I think that making FEDERAL decisions across the board on this type of thing is wrong - and for matters of what is going on in a school district it's even wrong at the state level- but in this instance it is a school district - and that is where these types of policies should exist....

I'm pretty wordy here - think the nitrous is still w/me...

The same argument was made in favor of Jim Crow laws.

I have no problem with "states rights" on most issues. But on some (and yes, this is one) civil rights issues, the federal government does, and should, have the right to intercede to help protect the rights of the minority, be they racially in the minority or "spiritually".

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Really ? So, that whole commandment saying that "thou shalt have no god before me" is what...just a suggestion ? People of other faiths are now to be admitted to heaven (making them just as good as people of "The Faith" ?

So, the Catholics just have it wrong, then ? And the Southern Baptists ? And virtually every other bible thumping group out there ? In virtually no "Christian" religion are women referred to as being equal to men.

If it "can be" so many things, then why is it nearly always religion ? Even the holocaust during world war II was based on disdain for those of a different religion. You may not like it, but it doesn't take an expert in history to see that the bible - and those that use it to further their cause - has caused more pain, misery, and death in the last two millenia than any other single cause. Period.

What was that tree that Eve ate from again ? The fable at the very heart of the entire book is based upon the idea that Adam and Eve represented perfection, so long as they remained ignorant of "good and evil". By gaining knowledge, they fell from grace.

You're right, it can't. So says the constitution. If you want your children indoctrinated into that nonsense, you are free to do so. You are not free to force it onto any other children through a publicly funded school.

Are you really implying (about 1/2 way through your quote) that the Bible is responsible for the Holocaust or that is was the Jews fault for being religious??? And you are saying the Bible is responsible for more pain, misery and death than anything else??

WOW!!

I'd address your other Bible misconceptions, but I don't belive you'd listen.

 

[wvrevy]

Are you really implying (about 1/2 way through your quote) that the Bible is responsible for the Holocaust or that is was the Jews fault for being religious??? And you are saying the Bible is responsible for more pain, misery and death than anything else??

WOW!!

I'd address your other Bible misconceptions, but I don't belive you'd listen.

Meaning that you can't.

But since you asked, yes, I am saying that religion was used to persecute Jewish people in eastern Europe during WWII. Without that difference of religious belief, perhaps Hitler would have found some other reason to persecute and kill millions. But they called the Jews "Christ killers", ya' know...That kinda has a bit of a religious connotation to it.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I am saying that religion was used to persecute Jewish people in eastern Europe during WWII. Without that difference of religious belief, perhaps Hitler would have found some other reason to persecute and kill millions. But they called the Jews "Christ killers", ya' know...That kinda has a bit of a religious connotation to it.

Certainly. Mob mentality bred through ignorance.
I personally know of no better way to combat ignorance of religion than through education. Invite students to open up the Bible, Torah, the Koran, and other religious texts and actually read them and interpret for themselves rather than relying on myth and rumor as to what religion actually dictates.

If you want your children indoctrinated into that nonsense, you are free to do so. You are not free to force it onto any other children through a publicly funded school.

And if children are being forced into it, I agree with you 100%. To me however, offerring an elective class with plenty of other non-religious alternatives is not the same as "enforced indoctrination."

 

[JennyMominRI]

.



And if children are being forced into it, I agree with you 100%. To me however, offerring an elective class with plenty of other non-religious alternatives is not the same as "enforced indoctrination."

My son was taught in his Social Studies class that Jesus is a historical figure.. He was also taught that Moses and Abraham are historical figure..Now there is a very good chance that those 3 people did exist,but there is no primary source proof.. We have no extrabiblical proof of their existance...Using the Bible to prove that Abraham or Jesus existed is like using A Visist from Saint Nick to prove that Santa Claus is real.. I would have no problem is the book said,It is believed by many that a Man named Jesus lived in 1st century Palestine,but it didn't it stated him( and Jewish Patriarchs) as historical figures..

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Well, here is my theory on religion in the classroom.

People learn more through actions than words. When kids see how acceptable violence has become in our society, and basically how immune we are to it, do we really think that preaching any type of doctrine will really make things any better?

A school in my state is advocating teaching intelligent design. The school in a neighboring rural county had a middle schooler shoot the principal, and then kill himself (Redlion PA). What is wrong with this picture?

Religion hasn't seemed to solve the sicknesses that are so pervasive in our society. Some of the most religious, rural areas are part of the worst too. So lets find solutions......

 

[ford family]

My son was taught in his Social Studies class that Jesus is a historical figure.. He was also taught that Moses and Abraham are historical figure..Now there is a very good chance that those 3 people did exist,but there is no primary source proof.. We have no extrabiblical proof of their existance...Using the Bible to prove that Abraham or Jesus existed is like using A Visist from Saint Nick to prove that Santa Claus is real.. I would have no problem is the book said,It is believed by many that a Man named Jesus lived in 1st century Palestine,but it didn't it stated him( and Jewish Patriarchs) as historical figures..

I don't understand. Doesn't historical mean a person in history as opposed to legendary?
www.dictionary.com says

historical

adj 1: of or relating to the study of history; "historical scholars"; "a historical perspective" [ant: ahistorical] 2: having once lived or existed or taken place in the real world as distinct from being legendary; "the historical Jesus"; "doubt that a historical Camelot every existed"; "actual historical events" 3: belonging to the past; of what is important or famous in the past; "historic victories"; "historical (or historic) times"; "a historical character" [syn: historic]

ford family

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Meaning that you can't.

But since you asked, yes, I am saying that religion was used to persecute Jewish people in eastern Europe during WWII. Without that difference of religious belief, perhaps Hitler would have found some other reason to persecute and kill millions. But they called the Jews "Christ killers", ya' know...That kinda has a bit of a religious connotation to it.

How unfortunate of the Jews to be religious. I did not know Hilter was a big Bible reader. If Hilter would use any reason, why blame religion?

If people took the time to read the Bible, either in their homes or in an ELECTIVE class, people would see it for the book of God's love that it is.