Testing refusal rates in your district

[nugov2]

Speaking to some of you who seem to support these tests is like speaking to the pro FP+ crowd. No matter how many real life examples we give you(from people actually IN NY and in classrooms) it's like talking to a wall. You don't believe it and everything said must be an exaggeration. Who care what the results show! These tests are really not needed to evaluate students. Teachers have been evaluating students for years with their own testing. And the tests cannot possibly measure a teachers effectiveness because of too many outside factors. These tests are garbage all around.

Your missing the point. For me it isn't that I LOVE PARCC or other forms of testing, but I don't see it as the end of the world that others do. I also think there is value in them. Almost all examples being shown are skewed because they are taken out of context, situations that have been exaggerated and problems that deal with port school decisions not testing issues.

I agree 100% we test too much. I agree 50% of teacher evaluations is too high or retaining students or making other drastic decisions based on one test is wrong. I disagree that the tests are academically inappropriate and I disagree with the opt out movement. As I stated before it is the wrong way to IMO make a statement about high stakes testing. I disagree with they way in which teachers and parents are posting wild scenarios that are not accurate to try to get their message across. It is just ridiculous.

 

[sam_gordon]

Speaking to some of you who seem to support these tests is like speaking to the pro FP+ crowd. No matter how many real life examples we give you(from people actually IN NY and in classrooms) it's like talking to a wall. You don't believe it and everything said must be an exaggeration. Who care what the results show! These tests are really not needed to evaluate students. Teachers have been evaluating students for years with their own testing. And the tests cannot possibly measure a teachers effectiveness because of too many outside factors. These tests are garbage all around.

Couldn't you say the same thing for the "anti-CC/testing" crowd? We've (the 'testing is OK' crowd) have ALSO give real life examples (from parents and teachers), but it's like talking to a wall. We must live in a bubble and don't know what's going on. Really? "Who cares what the results show"? OK.

ETA: We're not saying this testing is perfect or important or "the best thing since sliced bread", just that it's not as bad as others are trying to make it.

Oh, and these "real life examples"... do you mean the ones that people are posting with no attribution, taken out of context, and just "something I've read online"?

 

[deedeetoo]

I will gladly admit that I am in the testing is OK crowd, and I haven't seen anything here to convince me otherwise. I have an 8th grader so its not like I have no idea what is going on, but the testing here is a non-event. No one is up in arms. The kids go in to school on test days and take the tests. Its not a big deal. There are so many people on the DIS jumping up and down about the sky is falling, but when I go outside and look up the sky is still there the same as its always been.

 

[jodifla]

17 days of testing for students K-12. 17 days equates to 3 weeks and 2 days. Based on what you quoted I'm trying to figure out how 17 days equals 8 weeks, and are the kids sitting in the computer lab every day for 17 days, or for 8 weeks of testing?

The 17 days are needed because the tests are computerized. So instead of whole school sitting down with pencil and paper on certain days, they testing has to be rolled out over weeks and use all the computer labs for the testing. It creates a lot of logistical issues. My son has been shifted out of several classes he has with 8th graders because they are testing; so he watched Cloudy With Meatballs 2 today instead of going to Science.

http://www.smarterbalanced.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Estimated-Testing-Times.pdf

Here's a link to the hours of testing. For 3rd grade, it's supposed to be 7 hours for the reading and math. In several grades, they also will test for science or social studies. A third grade section that was supposed to take 90 minutes took most students 3 to 4 hours, it was reported today.

 

[jodifla]

Couldn't you say the same thing for the "anti-CC/testing" crowd? We've (the 'testing is OK' crowd) have ALSO give real life examples (from parents and teachers), but it's like talking to a wall. We must live in a bubble and don't know what's going on. Really? "Who cares what the results show"? OK.

ETA: We're not saying this testing is perfect or important or "the best thing since sliced bread", just that it's not as bad as others are trying to make it.

Oh, and these "real life examples"... do you mean the ones that people are posting with no attribution, taken out of context, and just "something I've read online"?

Plenty of real-life examples from those taking the tests have been mentioned here by those affected, like their kids being put in remedial classes unneccessarily.

 

[Kbee]

The 17 days are needed because the tests are computerized. So instead of whole school sitting down with pencil and paper on certain days, they testing has to be rolled out over weeks and use all the computer labs for the testing. It creates a lot of logistical issues. My son has been shifted out of several classes he has with 8th graders because they are testing; so he watched Cloudy With Meatballs 2 today instead of going to Science.

http://www.smarterbalanced.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Estimated-Testing-Times.pdf

Here's a link to the hours of testing. For 3rd grade, it's supposed to be 7 hours for the reading and math. In several grades, they also will test for science or social studies. A third grade section that was supposed to take 90 minutes took most students 3 to 4 hours, it was reported today.

Its the first year of these tests, there are bound to be glitches. My kids are often missing some class for something every now and again, its not really a big deal to me. I'm sure it is for others, but not to me.

 

[Kbee]

Plenty of real-life examples from those taking the tests have been mentioned here by those affected, like their kids being put in remedial classes unneccessarily.

My dd was put in AIS math because she scored a 2 one year on her tests. She's an A/B student and had scored high 3's all other years. It was for one semester and it wasn't taking the place of her math class it was a supplement to it. We were uspet at first but then realized a little extra math time isn't anything to be upset over, she did the class and moved on. I'm not talking about it years later. I've had 3 kids through the schools, and haven't opted any of them out. So, these real life stories aren't just happening to those that decided too do that this year.

 

[erin1715]

Couldn't you say the same thing for the "anti-CC/testing" crowd? We've (the 'testing is OK' crowd) have ALSO give real life examples (from parents and teachers), but it's like talking to a wall. We must live in a bubble and don't know what's going on. Really? "Who cares what the results show"? OK.

ETA: We're not saying this testing is perfect or important or "the best thing since sliced bread", just that it's not as bad as others are trying to make it.

Oh, and these "real life examples"... do you mean the ones that people are posting with no attribution, taken out of context, and just "something I've read online"?

Yes, who cares what the results show because a score of 1-4 means NOTHING if the parents, students, and teachers don't get to see the corrected exam. How is that helping???

ETA: And who can even see if these tests are being scored correctly? Certainly mistakes do happen and if nobody can see the scored test, then a student could be improperly placed in AIS. I linked an article earlier that Pearson hired a woman ONLINE for a scorers job without speaking to her or verifying her resume. That's reassuring. I also don't get all the noise about having an "agenda." Of course people have agendas in life.

 

[sam_gordon]

Plenty of real-life examples from those taking the tests have been mentioned here by those affected, like their kids being put in remedial classes unneccessarily.

I am sure there are certain places having problems. No doubt. Those problems should also be fixed. 100% behind that. Are you willing to admit there are also places where there AREN'T problems?

Look over the last couple pages. I know you haven't, but others have said (paraphrasing) "look at what's on this test! Can you believe it?!" And there's no attribution, no context, just outrage. That doesn't help.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yes, who cares what the results show because a score of 1-4 means NOTHING if the parents, students, and teachers don't get to see the corrected exam. How is that helping???

ETA: And who can even see if these tests are being scored correctly? Certainly mistakes do happen and if nobody can see the scored test, then a student could be improperly placed in AIS. I linked an article earlier that Pearson hired a woman ONLINE for a scorers job without speaking to her or verifying her resume. That's reassuring. I also don't get all the noise about having an "agenda." Of course people have agendas in life.

Tell that to Centerfield Elementary in Kentucky:

A year after the state designated Centerfield Elementary a school in need of improvement based on standardized test scores for the 2012-13 academic year, the Crestwood school pulled itself to a "proficient" classification — jumping from the 38th percentile to the 71st percentile among Kentucky elementary schools.

Source
Note: this article if from October 2014 when test results from the 2013 year were released. You're right, scores don't matter.

 

[Kbee]

Yes, who cares what the results show because a score of 1-4 means NOTHING if the parents, students, and teachers don't get to see the corrected exam. How is that helping???

ETA: And who can even see if these tests are being scored correctly? Certainly mistakes do happen and if nobody can see the scored test, then a student could be improperly placed in AIS. I linked an article earlier that Pearson hired a woman ONLINE for a scorers job without speaking to her or verifying her resume. That's reassuring. I also don't get all the noise about having an "agenda." Of course people have agendas in life.

Question, what happened long ago with standardized tests? Were our parents able to see the results? I don't really remember?

My problem with this agenda is that the educators are using the students and their parents to fight for them. I don't support these test being used for 50% of a teachers evaluation, but I definitely don't support those teachers sitting by while the kids and parents do the dirty work of opting out to make the teachers voices heard.

 

[zoemurr]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2015/04/17/new-york-fourth-grade-math-test/25937989/

Here are some sample questions released by the testing company. I don't think the material is overall inappropriate, but some of the wording is very confusing, and I felt they could test the same concepts in ways that didn't set out to trick them. More than one of them I had to figure out what they were asking exactly before I could work on the answer. (and I got a few wrong.. but I am mathematically challenged.) I really hate how they repeatedly list numbers out of order when talking about placement. That is not a scenario one would ever see in real life.

 

[Kbee]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2015/04/17/new-york-fourth-grade-math-test/25937989/

Here are some sample questions released by the testing company. I don't think the material is overall inappropriate, but some of the wording is very confusing, and I felt they could test the same concepts in ways that didn't set out to trick them. More than one of them I had to figure out what they were asking exactly before I could work on the answer. (and I got a few wrong.. but I am mathematically challenged.) I really hate how they repeatedly list numbers out of order when talking about placement. That is not a scenario one would ever see in real life.

But its important that student understand the concept of placement so listing the numbers out of order and them solving the problem shows they do. Its a little challenging but IMO that is what our kids need, they don't need to be fed easy questions, they need to think not regurgitate.

 

[sam_gordon]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2015/04/17/new-york-fourth-grade-math-test/25937989/

Here are some sample questions released by the testing company. I don't think the material is overall inappropriate, but some of the wording is very confusing, and I felt they could test the same concepts in ways that didn't set out to trick them. More than one of them I had to figure out what they were asking exactly before I could work on the answer. (and I got a few wrong.. but I am mathematically challenged.) I really hate how they repeatedly list numbers out of order when talking about placement. That is not a scenario one would ever see in real life.

I thought it was fairly appropriate. I tried taking the test before reading what grade it was and I was thinking 3rd or 4th. I would hope some of the concepts would be "fresher" in the minds of students than someone who's been out of school and hasn't needed the skills in decades.

 

[nugov2]

The 17 days are needed because the tests are computerized. So instead of whole school sitting down with pencil and paper on certain days, they testing has to be rolled out over weeks and use all the computer labs for the testing. It creates a lot of logistical issues. My son has been shifted out of several classes he has with 8th graders because they are testing; so he watched Cloudy With Meatballs 2 today instead of going to Science.

http://www.smarterbalanced.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Estimated-Testing-Times.pdf

Here's a link to the hours of testing. For 3rd grade, it's supposed to be 7 hours for the reading and math. In several grades, they also will test for science or social studies. A third grade section that was supposed to take 90 minutes took most students 3 to 4 hours, it was reported today.

Another example of a poor choice made by a school. My dd's school has one lab and they don't spend their days not testing watching movies lol. They take a test and have 2-3 days off in between while the other classed take that test. The days they don't test are buisness as usual where they teach normal unscripted lessons that are not based on standardized testing. On test days they still do core subject like math and reading and bypass science /ss and spelling if time is short..

 

[jodifla]

Another example of a poor choice made by a school. My dd's school has one lab and they don't spend their days not testing watching movies lol. They take a test and have 2-3 days off in between while the other classed take that test. The days they don't test are buisness as usual where they teach normal unscripted lessons that are not based on standardized testing. On test days they still do core subject like math and reading and bypass science /ss and spelling if time is short..

My child's school has 800 students. The logistics of getting everyone on a computer for 8 to 12 hours means a lot of class shifting.

 

[spinandmarty]

i have no logs in this fire... so what i think doesnt really matter... I work in a school central IL... what i have seen and heard from teachers... a lot of them dont like it ...but say its only the first year have your kids take them... but I have also seen that spec ed teachers or not in class, they or proctoring test... but their para professionals or still working with kids,, dont know if that counts on IEPs or not,,, did ask one of our parents that did opt out, 2 kids out of maybe 15 that did, what she had to do, she said she called office and said her kids were not to take test, they sent them to study hall, from other posts dont know if that was legal or not... we do have three teachers that or retiring this year soley because of common core....

 

[nugov2]

My child's school has 800 students. The logistics of getting everyone on a computer for 8 to 12 hours means a lot of class shifting.

We have 900 students and manage. It can work with proper planning.

 

[Tinijocaro]

http://www.commondreams.org/news/20...ew-york-students-take-stand-against-corporate

 

[kimmar067]

"The top ten reasons I support my children's right to refuse the test:

10. I will never see their test so the results are useless to me.

...
9. Their teachers will never see their tests so the results are useless to them.

8. The tests are used to rank schools and teachers based on a metric that was never designed for this purpose.

7. The tests are being used to tell us we have failing schools when the truth is we have phenomenal public schools.

6. My kids are being used to field test questions for future tests without compensation, amounting to free child labor for corporate educational publishers.

5. These tests are based on a curriculum that was only introduced a few years ago.

4. Miraculously, officials from State Ed were able to tell us the percentage of students who would fail PRIOR to the test being administered, indicating a purposeful cut point manipulation (see number 7).

3. These tests force schools to reduce studies in history, science and the arts to focus more time on "deficit instruction" amounting to a race to mediocrity.

2. Standardized tests represent corporate and governmental control over districts, reducing local control.

1. It will piss off Governor Cuomo."

"....good call..."