teen drivers and joint physical custody

[Mommee]

How on EARTH do I make this work? In a perfect place I could talk with my ex and figure this out, but he's not speaking to me. At all.

DS splits his time between dad's and here pretty evenly. In our state he's considered to have a legal residence at both homes.

Dad (my ex) refuses to help pay for driver's ed. I think DS should not have to pay a dime towards it. That leaves me paying the entire cost or he doesn't go. Even if I do pay for it entirely, DS will have to rely on his dad to get him to some of the classes, and that may or may not happen.

Dad just traded in his vehicle for a new one and has told DS he'll never drive it. He plans to exclude him from the insurance coverage to keep his rates from going up when DS turns 16.


I also don't know whose house the license needs to be listed at, or if only one of us can get him his license.

And then there's the car. DS wants to buy DH's current car once he gets a job (and DH likes that idea because he knows the vehicle has been well maintained). With all the trouble I've had over DS's cell phone (I bought it, I pay for it, so Dad chooses this item to punish him, and for ridiculous lengths of time, too) I'm not sure allowing him a vehicle that Dad has power over is a good idea.

I don't think DS not ending up with a license or not being able to have a car is fair.

On the other hand, if I go ahead and get DS a driver's license and let him buy a car without Dad's cooperation, Dad can (and likely will) take me to court for violating the custody agreement (we have to agree on "big" issues). This is the kind of guy that's taken me to court for giving DS a hair cut without his approval (which he wouldn't give), and then a year later testified in court that I'm not a good mom because I quit taking DS to get hair cuts

Thoughts? DS won't be eligible for driver's ed until December, so I have time on my side.

 

[cheermom1]

How on EARTH do I make this work? In a perfect place I could talk with my ex and figure this out, but he's not speaking to me. At all.

DS splits his time between dad's and here pretty evenly. In our state he's considered to have a legal residence at both homes.

Dad (my ex) refuses to help pay for driver's ed. I think DS should not have to pay a dime towards it. That leaves me paying the entire cost or he doesn't go. Even if I do pay for it entirely, DS will have to rely on his dad to get him to some of the classes, and that may or may not happen.

Dad just traded in his vehicle for a new one and has told DS he'll never drive it. He plans to exclude him from the insurance coverage to keep his rates from going up when DS turns 16.


I also don't know whose house the license needs to be listed at, or if only one of us can get him his license.

And then there's the car. DS wants to buy DH's current car once he gets a job (and DH likes that idea because he knows the vehicle has been well maintained). With all the trouble I've had over DS's cell phone (I bought it, I pay for it, so Dad chooses this item to punish him, and for ridiculous lengths of time, too) I'm not sure allowing him a vehicle that Dad has power over is a good idea.

I don't think DS not ending up with a license or not being able to have a car is fair.

On the other hand, if I go ahead and get DS a driver's license and let him buy a car without Dad's cooperation, Dad can (and likely will) take me to court for violating the custody agreement (we have to agree on "big" issues). This is the kind of guy that's taken me to court for giving DS a hair cut without his approval (which he wouldn't give), and then a year later testified in court that I'm not a good mom because I quit taking DS to get hair cuts

Thoughts? DS won't be eligible for driver's ed until December, so I have time on my side.

Um wow. Son should get his DL and have a car. First about dad not letting son drive his car or put him on his ins. that sorry you don't have a say in at all. Maybe wrong but you can't change that. Now with the drivers ed. does the court order say he has to pay for that, if not then sorry again your out of luck, wrong maybe, maybe not I don't know.

Ok now as far as the addy I don't know you will have to do some research on that. As far as the car you may just have to go to court to have it spelled out weather son can buy his dads car or buy a different one. And if does buy his dads car what kinds of restrictions is he allowed to have spelled in the order as well.

I don't know what else to tell you right now. good luck though.

 

[kaytieeldr]

It would seem to me, despite having two legal addresses, that your son (anyone) can have only one address registered with the DMV. I don't think any custody agreement can supersede that, so his license address could/would be your address.

Is he 100% required to take Driver's Ed? What happens if he doesn't? Does it delay his obtaining a license, or does it prevent him entirely? Is there a school convenient to his dad's house and does he have alternate transportation like a bike or his feet, so that he can get there even when his dad isn't reliable? Or can you transport him to and from the classes even when he's at his dad's?

I'm a little about the car. His dad traded in his own car for a new one, but your son wants/plans to buy his dad's current car when he (son) gets a job? Is that this new car? Is it a different car his dad owns but doesn't drive but didn't trade? I understand thinking it's 'not fair' if your son isn't able to get a license or a car, but honestly, it's not unfair - especially the car part. Many, many, many more teens don't have cars than do.

 

[PatsGirl]

It sounds like it might be time for you to take the bull by the horns and include your son in that as well DS MUST talk to his Dad and tell him what his plans are for his classes, getting his license, the address he wants as his legal residence, and how/when/if he intends to buy a car. Personally, I wouldn't want him to buy his Dad's car, sounds like it could just add to the already endless list of issues.

I'm assuming your son is around 16 years old? Again, time for him to start expressing his needs and wants to his father. Any judge worth his salt should be throwing this crap out of court and making Dad pay for your time spent there

As for DS helping to pay some of the costs, everyone does it their own way but my kids are always expected to help out. And NO I did not let my son drive my car either. He earned and saved his own money, paid for drivers ed, bought his own car, paid his insurance, and put it on the road. I contributed $2000 of the $6500 he needed to do this as part of an agreement to match him dollar for dollar on the actual car he purchased (a pickup truck for $4000 btw).

Good luck, ex sounds like a real piece of work

 

[kellyg403]

OP, I feel your pain. I can only say that when dd turned 15, I paid for the drivers ed and I have a 1994 van that is paid for that I have kept in good condition so that the kids could drive it. They must be in a position to pay their 1/2 of the insurance and maintenance of the vehicle before getting their drivers license. And I have not ever let them drive my newer cars. Part of everything was getting them to be responsible about driving before they could drive a 'great car'.

I would imagine that there will have to be a primary residence. Even though you have joint custody, isn't there a stipulation that there is a primary residence/parent? That would be the parent that has the address/insurance requirements he would need to use.

Kelly

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Pay for driver's ed.

Call your insurance company and find out the details there.

Don't buy a car from the ex.

Now if your son has the money to buy the car from the ex and dad is willing to sell it to him, then stay out of that part.

I do agree that your son needs to be taking the lead now with his dad about things.

 

[agnes!]

Well, I sure can see why this 'man' (and I use the term loosely) is your EX.

agnes!

 

[tiggger1]

One thing I would do is not let him do "buy" DH old car. Or at least make sure that you have your name/DH's also on it too. This is JIC your ex decides to punish your son for some reason and try take the car, at least he cannot sell it. and you can get it back. If it was only in your son's name and one of his legal guardians, he possibly could.

honestly I would take him to court and have it in writing that he can get his license, a car and whatever else you need. I would also try to get it in writing that the ex cannot take the car for him for any reason, or if he does that the car has to be returned to you.

 

[golfgal]

First, you just need to pick an address for him on the license-obviously yours since the ex isn't going to cooperate. Second, if you put your son on your insurance he won't need to be listed on your ex's insurance-but if your son is driving the ex's car and has an accident, the ex' insurance will be the one to pay out. Third, buy a car from an uninterested party-NOT the ex. That will just be one more thing to hang over your son's head from the way it sounds. Leave the car at your house when he goes to his Dad's until Dad decides to cooperate.

I have to say that I don't disagree with your ex on buying your son a car. I am not a fan of new drivers having their own cars unless they pay for them 100%--reason being, they take better care of the cars if they worked for the money to buy them and they are more careful drivers. I have just seen way too many new drivers total out their 16th birthday present from mom and dad.

 

[clh2]

I think there is a little confusion - is your DS wanting to buy a car from your ex (i.e. his bio-dad) or from his step-dad (your DH)?

 

[jen0610]

How on EARTH do I make this work? In a perfect place I could talk with my ex and figure this out, but he's not speaking to me. At all.

DS splits his time between dad's and here pretty evenly. In our state he's considered to have a legal residence at both homes.

Dad (my ex) refuses to help pay for driver's ed. I think DS should not have to pay a dime towards it. That leaves me paying the entire cost or he doesn't go. Even if I do pay for it entirely, DS will have to rely on his dad to get him to some of the classes, and that may or may not happen.

Dad just traded in his vehicle for a new one and has told DS he'll never drive it. He plans to exclude him from the insurance coverage to keep his rates from going up when DS turns 16.


I also don't know whose house the license needs to be listed at, or if only one of us can get him his license.

And then there's the car. DS wants to buy DH's current car once he gets a job (and DH likes that idea because he knows the vehicle has been well maintained). With all the trouble I've had over DS's cell phone (I bought it, I pay for it, so Dad chooses this item to punish him, and for ridiculous lengths of time, too) I'm not sure allowing him a vehicle that Dad has power over is a good idea.
I don't think DS not ending up with a license or not being able to have a car is fair.

On the other hand, if I go ahead and get DS a driver's license and let him buy a car without Dad's cooperation, Dad can (and likely will) take me to court for violating the custody agreement (we have to agree on "big" issues). This is the kind of guy that's taken me to court for giving DS a hair cut without his approval (which he wouldn't give), and then a year later testified in court that I'm not a good mom because I quit taking DS to get hair cuts

Thoughts? DS won't be eligible for driver's ed until December, so I have time on my side.

For the sake of not breaking the rules of agreeing on "big" issues - don't have your current DH "sell" the car to your DS, but let him have the car to drive until he turns 18 at which time he can then buy it. For the time being, once he get the license and job, let him pay for the gas and upkeep of the car. Depending on the insurance cost, let him pay a portion of that. That way he feels "ownership" of the car - he keeps it washed and clean, gas in the tank to get him places.

Your Ex sounds like a real piece of work. Fighting you on issues, just for the sake of making it hard on you. As far as the phone goes, I would let him know that until he helps pay for that expense, he doesn't get to take it way for extended periods of time. And the same goes for the car, until the Ex helps pay for ALL cost that pertain to the car, he has no say on the use of the car.

If dad wants to continue to being a pain, it might well be time to take him back to court and revisit the way the custody is written. It doesn't seem to be working out the older your son gets.

 

[Mommee]

Hey, thanks for the advice, but I don't know if everyone read my post wrong, or if everyone read what someone assumed and they went with it, but can I get some advice based on what I ACTUALLY wrote?

DS wants to buy my husband's car-his stepdad. My husband is not my ex, nor is he the dad. They are two different people.

Secondly, for DS to buy the car, he would obviously (to me, at least, maybe I didn't word that right) be paying for it himself. So the advice on that front about making him pay for it, well, ...

If DS drives dad's car and has an accident, dad's insurance will NOT pay out. That's what exclusion does.

(I see some people posted while I was writing this..)

There is no possible way for me to prevent dad from taking the cell phone. He knows how I feel, and chose to keep it away longer after I tried to discuss it.

 

[golfgal]

Hey, thanks for the advice, but I don't know if everyone read my post wrong, or if everyone read what someone assumed and they went with it, but can I get some advice based on what I ACTUALLY wrote?

DS wants to buy my husband's car-his stepdad. My husband is not my ex, nor is he the dad. They are two different people.

Secondly, for DS to buy the car, he would obviously be paying for it himself. So the advice on that front about making him pay for it, well, ...

If DS drives dad's car and has an accident, dad's insurance will NOT pay out. That's what exclusion does.

Yes it will pay out, that is how insurance works. As long as your ex allows your son to drive his car he will be covered under the permissive user clause that is standard in ALL auto policies-thus making that policy primary in an accident. Just because your son isn't listed on the ex's policy doesn't mean that policy won't pay out. All that means is that your DH won't have to pay higher rates. It would be the same thing if you let your neighbor use your car and they got into an accident, YOUR insurance would pay out and YOU would get the ding on your insurance rates, not your neighbor. Another thing to keep in mind is if your DS has his own car or you have 3 cars for 3 drivers he will be primary on one car and that is EXTREMELY expensive.

I read your post as YOU would be buying the car for your son-sorry.

 

[Mommee]

Yes it will pay out, that is how insurance works. As long as your ex allows your son to drive his car he will be covered under the permissive user clause that is standard in ALL auto policies-thus making that policy primary in an accident. Just because your son isn't listed on the ex's policy doesn't mean that policy won't pay out. All that means is that your DH won't have to pay higher rates. It would be the same thing if you let your neighbor use your car and they got into an accident, YOUR insurance would pay out and YOU would get the ding on your insurance rates, not your neighbor. Another thing to keep in mind is if your DS has his own car or you have 3 cars for 3 drivers he will be primary on one car and that is EXTREMELY expensive.

I read your post as YOU would be buying the car for your son-sorry.

I'm sorry you took the time to type that out, but google "excluded driver" and you'll see what I'm talking about. I don't think it's an option in every state, but it is here.

 

[msmayor]

I'm sorry you took the time to type that out, but google "excluded driver" and you'll see what I'm talking about. I don't think it's an option in every state, but it is here.

Maybe the insurance wouldn't pay out...but your ex could STILL be liable if he gave your son the keys to the car. He'd be personally liable as long as your son didn't take the keys and car without him knowing.

 

[golfgal]

I'm sorry you took the time to type that out, but google "excluded driver" and you'll see what I'm talking about. I don't think it's an option in every state, but it is here.

WOW, snarky much. It isn't an option in most states and this actually makes the situation WORSE. If your ex excludes your son from the policy, lets him drive and your son gets into an accident, your ex will have to pay out of pocket for any damages--not smart at all.

 

[Mommee]

Maybe the insurance wouldn't pay out...but your ex could STILL be liable if he gave your son the keys to the car. He'd be personally liable as long as your son didn't take the keys and car without him knowing.

I'm pretty sure the Dad would turn around and accuse DS of having stolen the vehicle regardless of what he told DS. Unless I have proof that he's covered, he will be told that the car is off-limits even if Dad gives him permission.

And so, I'm more concerned about DS not having access to a vehicle while at Dad's.

 

[sunnyday123]

Hey, thanks for the advice, but I don't know if everyone read my post wrong, or if everyone read what someone assumed and they went with it, but can I get some advice based on what I ACTUALLY wrote?

DS wants to buy my husband's car-his stepdad. My husband is not my ex, nor is he the dad. They are two different people.

Secondly, for DS to buy the car, he would obviously (to me, at least, maybe I didn't word that right) be paying for it himself. So the advice on that front about making him pay for it, well, ...

If DS drives dad's car and has an accident, dad's insurance will NOT pay out. That's what exclusion does.

(I see some people posted while I was writing this..)

There is no possible way for me to prevent dad from taking the cell phone. He knows how I feel, and chose to keep it away longer after I tried to discuss it.

So ex is a tad bitter, no?? Sorry you and your son are put through this. DD has a phone her Dad pays for. I've taken it away from her as punishment, but if he calls/texts on it, I give it to her for that call. When she goes to his house, so does the phone. That being said, I'd tell DS to hide the darn phone when he's at Dads, or just say I forgot it. I think you both need to be on the same page as far as parenting, no matter who lives where, and he sounds like he's trying to punish you through DS. Moron.

I'd let him buy the car from your husband, as long as he's responsible and takes care of it-that would be part of the deal. Probably wouldn't let him take it to Dads because as sure as shoot, he'll take that away first chance he gets. I'm sure DS can only have one residential address, and I'd make sure it's yours. Your ex can sign some type of waiver with his ins. co stating he won't let DS drive his vehicle, and there would be no coverage if an accident occured. Honestly, I'm suprised he spends so much time there, sounds like his dad is a tad controlling and bitter still. I know my ex is still a little ( a lot really ) like that, and DD doesn't want to spend every other week with him this summer. Good luck.

 

[SC Minnie]

OK. The driver Ed DD took had one day for formal in room training (it was an all day thing) and then 8 hours of on the road training with an instructor. The on the road training was scheduled whenever DD and I felt she was ready for the next hour (it was in 1 hour blocks). She also had to do 40 hours of driving with me or DH. If you have a drivers ed school like this then you don't need to worry about the Ex taking him to drivers training. Just do it all at your house. THe school we went to wants the kids to have all the 8 hours on the road training withing 90 days.

About driving the Ex's car. Tell your son he cannot drive a car at his Dad's ever. Period. He is not covered on the insurance if he should wreck the car. Because of this have your address on the license and insurance.

Have your son start talking to his Dad now about getting his drivers permit, taking drivers ed, and driving. This gives him 6 months to talk to him so he doesn't drag you back to court. Your son needs to have these conversations in an calm adult manner. He doesn't need to cop an attitude if his dad says no in the beginning. He needs to just ask him to think about it. Don't let him nag the dad about this either.

When DD got her drivers permit she didn't need both parents to sign, just one.


Good luck.

 

[Mommee]

WOW, snarky much. It isn't an option in most states and this actually makes the situation WORSE. If your ex excludes your son from the policy, lets him drive and your son gets into an accident, your ex will have to pay out of pocket for any damages--not smart at all.

WOW, jump to conclusions much (and yes, THAT was snarky).
I actually retyped that 3 different times knowing that no matter how I typed it, you'd possibly take it wrong. I just didn't think telling you that you didn't have a clue what you were talking about was the way to go. At least I know I tried to be nice.