Teacher taking Vacation to Disney during school year?

[grafxgirl]

I used to be a substitute teacher and don't like it when people look at substitute teachers as "just a sub." I have a college degree, and am currently working on my Masters in Elementary Education. The Board of Ed where I am located matches their substitute teachers to teach the classes where their college degree is best used. If a sub has an art background, then most likely they would sub for liberal arts classes or computer classes since most art majors have computer experience. If a sub has a background in science or economics then they would be best suited to fill in for those classes. However, most of our substitute teachers are retired teachers that still want to teach, but don't want to do it full time.

I now teach full time, and yes I do take my vacations during the school year. Teachers do accumulate vacation time that needs to be used just like everyone else. Why should they be restricted to using it during holidays or summer break? Many teachers are on a budget and would probably enjoy going during off-seasons, as well as many people, since it is typically cheaper.

 

[grafxgirl]

I'm not sure why you'd be "amazed" that someone would get 10-12 weeks off for maternity leave when it's the law in their state. When I had my dd (4 years ago,) the law/standard was 12 weeks, and I took all 12. It was also 12 when I had my son 9 years ago, and those were in 2 different states, so I can't imagine it's that uncommon.

ETA: I'm not/was not a teacher when I had my children, but I don't think that it should make a difference as to how much maternity someone takes.

It's not uncommon. Our state law is 6-8 weeks, but a person can take up to 12 weeks if they want.

 

[disneydreamingdebby]

I personally would be appalled and probably complain to the Supt. about it. (unless it was for a family wedding, which I would forgive since I do not expect everyone to be considerate of the school year and I do not think teachers should have to miss out on major family events). I guess I am old school. But I am not old I am only 32. Teachers USED to a highly respected field because they put CHILDREN first or at least as a high priority. Now teachers feel that the communities disrespect them and show little value to them- well honestly I think that if you believe that you child is perfectly okay with a sub making minimum wage while your kid's real teacher is on vacation it is a huge disrespect and is a reason why we no longer hold teachers in high esteem.

I just think that if you don't plan on working from late August until June then you probably not sign a contract saying you will.

I think my attitude must be based on where I live and how things are here.

I know I seem harsh- and I do understand that people have unique situations. But I also believe that with commitment comes sacrifice. Once in a life time opportunites (weddings, family reunions, free trips), family job issues occasionally okay, but when the attitude is simply you have time you should take it as you like, that is where I think the line is.

Obviously, all education is not like Texas- so I am biased to what I have seen. And yes, I would love to move, but not in cards right now.

I've been teaching for 15 years. (I am not much older than you.) I am a completely dedicated teacher, and I used to never take days off. However, one year when dh said let's go to Disney for the girls' birthday, I said okay. After coming back rejuvenated, I decided we needed a long weekend vacation every winter. Also, I spent four days with my family--time I cannot reschedule when I retire. BTW: My dh CANNOT schedule off when my daughters and I have holidays off.

I don't think you would be able to find ANY member of our 175 member 9th through 12th grade staff (or our 7 member administrative team) who knows me who would EVER question my commitment to my job or to my classes. (Some might find me ridiculously over the top, actually.) My winter breaks help me to care less - I know that sounds backwards, but sometimes I care way too much. So much that I become shortsighted in meeting my third grade twin daughters' needs. (I sometimes find myself questioning if I can miss a day of classes to go to their classroom event or school trip--which I might make twice a year. I had my husband take my daughter to get her foot x-rayed for a broken toe because I believed I "couldn't miss" school.)

To use your words...
I personally am appalled that you question all educators because they take time away from the classroom.

My principal consistently begins our meetings with a slide that reads: commitment verses compliance...I would say that on at least five occasions this year, he has thanked me for my "commitment" to our school and students. (Remember, he has a teaching staff of 175 teachers and about 2,200 students.)

Lastly, my father died of cancer this past September. This helps remind me often that family is more important than my job--regardless of my job. I thought I would miss one day for my dad's operation. The doctor informed us that he had stage IV cancer, and when I returned the next morning for my mom to break the news to him, I sat in the waiting room texting lesson plans to my friend in order for business as usual to continue for my 11th graders. Really--what job requires these circumstances?? And yes, even when I was scheduling time to take him to chemo and help my mom and siblings with his care, I was completely commited to my class.

"No one upon reflecting on his life thought he should have worked more..." Teaching is important - but one's family should be first and foremost. Spending three days in Disney while a substitute carries out my step by step lesson plans is not something you or anyone else has the right to make me or another teacher feel guilty about.

Taking days off does not indicate the level of commitment by a teacher.

I posted to hopefully change your perspective. I hope you don't just think that I am the exception to your generalization. I hope if you have children, you are much more understanding and generous to their teachers.

I was inclined to believe that you don't have your own children yet, but I read some of your other posts...I cannot imagine that you believe your job more important than your kids... Going away for a vacation is often a way to put your family first. Based on your age, you were in the classroom a relatively short time. I am curious why you chose to leave the classroom? (Not in a rude way; simply because I was quite shocked that you have this perspective as a former teacher with three children...)

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Based on your posts, it seems easy to "get you wrong." I don't see much appreciation in your posts. It seems like you think teachers work too little and get over paid. You have a couple of very tidy little math equations there and appear to have it all figured out. However, as you said about your own profession...to an outsider it looks easy. I don't want to trade with you as you indicated the PP could, but if you're so upset about teachers' vacation, you should have become one.

No, I really do appreciate my kids teachers; I tell them all the time and I know I couldn't do it myself. I will be the 1st to admit it. I don't have the patience. With the exception of ds14's math teacher last year, they have all been excellent, K-8 so far. At least in elementary school where the kids stay with 1 teacher, I always give a generous gift at Christmas & at the end of the school year. It's nice to feel appreciated.
Our teachers make great $ and I'm glad they do. My home town is known for its good school system and it's the reason why families move here. Our taxes are outrageous but it's worth it.

I just don't know of any other field that consistantly complains so publicly as much as teachers (though I've never directly heard ours complain.) Mostly about being being underpaid and not getting paid all summer, like the pp saying it's 'seasonal' and such, complaining about not being able to collect unemployment. Why should you? You still get a good annual salary comparable to other professions that work year-round.

Do you constantly hear nurses & medical professionals complain so much? Are we known as complainers here on the Disboards? In the 9 years in worked in general radiology, (before switching to mammos) I worked Christmas 3 times. That sure gets old fast but hey, I knew that going into the field. It's nasty, dirty, stressful work. We xray everyone from drunk drivers to aborted fetuses.
The doctors that read the images we produce get paid 5x what we do. Do I begrudge them? No. It's a free country and if I wanted to be a radiologist and go to school that long, I could have and still could now but choose not to.
We all chose our career along with the pros & cons that come with it. Enough with the complaining already. Every time the topic of teaching comes up here on the Dis, it turns into a gripe session. There are a lot of nurses/medical professionals on here too but you just don't hear them complaining so much. Our work is stressful and undervalued too. Join the club.

 

[disneydreamingdebby]

No, I really do appreciate my kids teachers; I tell them all the time and I know I couldn't do it myself. I will be the 1st to admit it. I don't have the patience. With the exception of ds14's math teacher last year, they have all been excellent, K-8 so far. At least in elementary school where the kids stay with 1 teacher, I always give a generous gift at Christmas & at the end of the school year. It's nice to feel appreciated.
Our teachers make great $ and I'm glad they do. My home town is known for its good school system and it's the reason why families move here. Our taxes are outrageous but it's worth it.

I just don't know of any other field that consistantly complains so publicly as much as teachers (though I've never directly heard ours complain.) Mostly about being being underpaid and not getting paid all summer, like the pp saying it's 'seasonal' and such, complaining about not being able to collect unemployment. Why should you? You still get a good annual salary comparable to other professions that work year-round.

Do you constantly hear nurses & medical professionals complain so much? Are we known as complainers here on the Disboards? In the 9 years in worked in general radiology, (before switching to mammos) I worked Christmas 3 times. That sure gets old fast but hey, I knew that going into the field. It's nasty, dirty, stressful work. We xray everyone from drunk drivers to aborted fetuses.
The doctors that read the images we produce get paid 5x what we do. Do I begrudge them? No. It's a free country and if I wanted to be a radiologist and go to school that long, I could have and still could now but choose not to.
We all chose our career along with the pros & cons that come with it. Enough with the complaining already. Every time the topic of teaching comes up here on the Dis, it turns into a gripe session. There are a lot of nurses/medical professionals on here too but you just don't hear them complaining so much. Our work is stressful and undervalued too. Join the club.

I don't complain about what I make because in PA, after 15 years and essentially three Masters, I am compensated well. I do make $10,000 dollars less than an identical teacher in the district where my daughters attend school....

I don't think that teachers complain about their salaries; I think they try to defend themselves. Many states do not compensate teachers for their worth (starting salary of $30,000 for a bachelor's degree?!) The equation you worked out previously would only work if teachers were paid hourly and actually could complete our jobs in 6.5 hours a day - mine is 7.5 contractually, but really about 9.5 in actuality - plus weekends. Therefore, you have to consider that when you break down our actual pay, it doesn't look anything like your equation. (BTW I have a 25 min duty free lunch that actually is spent at my desk, helping a student, emailing / calling parents, or making copies.)

Again, teachers are simply trying to justify that our job is not part-time work, we work harder than the public gives us credit for, and we are not appreciated for the important role we play in society. We are not paid for the days we are off in the summer; thus, many teachers have summer jobs. (I do know teachers who work evening and weekend jobs too for $8 an hour, so really our new teachers must be struggling.) I am not saying that NO teachers complain; I am saying that MOST teachers defend. I am sure some of your colleagues complain about their pay too. (btw, I do have two sister-in-laws who are nurses. )

 

[tigger51276]

Teachers are humans also and most have families that include small children. I would have absolutely no problem with my DD's teacher taking time that is allotted to her to use for a family vacation if that is how she chose to use it. You only live once and your kids are only young once, make the most of it!

 

[MKCP1984]

Wouldn't bother me either. I'm happy when employees use their sick/vacation days. Life isn't all about work. Everyone needs some down time whether it's for sickness or a vacation, I hope for their sake it's for vacation

Happy teachers make for happy kids

ABSOLUTELY!!!! You've said it perfectly!

 

[MKCP1984]

I don't complain about what I make because in PA, after 15 years and essentially three Masters, I am compensated well. I do make $10,000 dollars less than an identical teacher in the district where my daughters attend school....

I don't think that teachers complain about their salaries; I think they try to defend themselves. Many states do not compensate teachers for their worth (starting salary of $30,000 for a bachelor's degree?!) The equation you worked out previously would only work if teachers were paid hourly and actually could complete our jobs in 6.5 hours a day - mine is 7.5 contractually, but really about 9.5 in actuality - plus weekends. Therefore, you have to consider that when you break down our actual pay, it doesn't look anything like your equation. (BTW I have a 25 min duty free lunch that actually is spent at my desk, helping a student, emailing / calling parents, or making copies.)

Again, teachers are simply trying to justify that our job is not part-time work, we work harder than the public gives us credit for, and we are not appreciated for the important role we play in society. We are not paid for the days we are off in the summer; thus, many teachers have summer jobs. (I do know teachers who work evening and weekend jobs too for $8 an hour, so really our new teachers must be struggling.) I am not saying that NO teachers complain; I am saying that MOST teachers defend. I am sure some of your colleagues complain about their pay too. (btw, I do have two sister-in-laws who are nurses. )

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!!! We have a life-long impact on a child's life....
So, if the original post is regarding a long-weekend Disney trip during the school year to keep us grounded/sane, then YES, we should go to our 'happy place' if we feel the need.

 

[EKW]

This post is inappropriate. If you have issues with your staff, you should deal with them in person, not gripe about them on a public message board.

For the sake of your reputation, you should look into an educational ethics course before making further public posts about internal administrative issues.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

This post is inappropriate. If you have issues with your staff, you should deal with them in person, not gripe about them on a public message board.

For the sake of your reputation, you should look into an educational ethics course before making further public posts about internal administrative issues.

I thought OP was simply asking opinions from the parents side. What it evolved into is another story but I thought she was disagreeing with what a teacher did but maybe was wondering if parents would agree or not. I don't think that's an inappropriate question.

 

[OllieDannyandMe]

I think we were simply referring to two different things.... FMLA vs. PAID maternity leave..... But this is WAY off the OT.. Sorry.

I have friends who work in industry, and they receive 12 weeks of paid maternity leave that does not take away from their accrued sick leave.

When I had my daughter, I did not receive any paid maternity leave. I was able to use two weeks worth of sick days that I had saved, and then, it was unpaid leave from that point forward.

In fact, a couple of months before I had my daughter, the personnel office called because they wanted to start docking my paycheck a couple of hundred dollars each month. I had not even taken any time off, but they wanted to take money out of my paycheck for the time off that I would be taking, so they would have something in reserve to continue paying for my benefits (health insurance, life insurance, etc.).

 

[leebee]

A couple of points:

In my school district, you have to work over 20 years to make $60K. Teachers start out at about $25K; this makes the hourly calculation posted previously skewed.

The teachers at the school where I am employed have to be in school by 7:40. Kids head for the classrooms at 8:10 and school starts at 8:15. K-7 teachers have a 25 minute lunch daily, and another 25 min commitment 3X weekly in the lunchroom or at recess. Almost all teachers have a 45 minute planning period every day while their kids are in a "special" (art, PE, Spanish, computers). Teachers are required to stay until 3:20 each day; 3 days a week it's to provide afterschool help (or monitor detention in gr 6-8), one day is for a staff meeting, and one day is "free" (usually Friday, when teachers are required clean and sanitize the classroom desks, tables, and chairs, clean whiteboards/blackboards, etc. Custodians clean the floors 2X a week but teachers often sweep in between custodial visits).

This year, school started on the last Monday of August and will let out on Tuesday, June 21. YAHOO!! (the kids finish at noon on 6/20).

Just because they are teachers doesn't make their families any less important. Imagine if the people who benefit from your job told you that you couldn't take your kid to Disney for her birthday, go to a family reunion, whatever, because although you are contracted to be able to have the time off, they don't like that you take it at that time! Also, I don't see that a single teacher is whining about the hours they work; they are defending themselves and their profession against people who don't understand what is demanded (who instead think that the hours are "cushy" without considering all that is involved).

I think the thing that bothers me most in this thread is that nobody is questioning how and when other professionals use their paid time off, be it personal or vacation days- just teachers are under scrutiny. It doesn't matter when school is and isn't in session; if the contract allows for days off during the school year, that's the end of the discussion. Who are you to question when they are taken? If you have an issue with teachers being out of the classroom during the school, take it up with your school board and the teachers' unions; don't pass judgement on teachers who exercise the benefits of their jobs.

For the record, teaching contracts in my school district allow teachers 3 personal days and 12 sick days each year. Some teachers in my school take vacation during the school year. Most don't, but those who go are envied! They also request their subs by name, meet with them before going away, and leave full sub notes for while they are gone. Any grading (homework, quizzes, etc.) that accumulates during the vacation time awaits their return; subs can't assign grades, although sometimes they will correct what they can (i.e., multiple choice questions, etc) if the teacher has left an answer key.

I really wish parents would pay as much concern over taking their kids out of school for weeks at a time to go on vacation as they do to whether the teacher goes on vacation!

 

[princessmom29]

I don't complain about what I make because in PA, after 15 years and essentially three Masters, I am compensated well. I do make $10,000 dollars less than an identical teacher in the district where my daughters attend school....

I don't think that teachers complain about their salaries; I think they try to defend themselves. Many states do not compensate teachers for their worth (starting salary of $30,000 for a bachelor's degree?!) The equation you worked out previously would only work if teachers were paid hourly and actually could complete our jobs in 6.5 hours a day - mine is 7.5 contractually, but really about 9.5 in actuality - plus weekends. Therefore, you have to consider that when you break down our actual pay, it doesn't look anything like your equation. (BTW I have a 25 min duty free lunch that actually is spent at my desk, helping a student, emailing / calling parents, or making copies.)

Again, teachers are simply trying to justify that our job is not part-time work, we work harder than the public gives us credit for, and we are not appreciated for the important role we play in society. We are not paid for the days we are off in the summer; thus, many teachers have summer jobs. (I do know teachers who work evening and weekend jobs too for $8 an hour, so really our new teachers must be struggling.) I am not saying that NO teachers complain; I am saying that MOST teachers defend. I am sure some of your colleagues complain about their pay too. (btw, I do have two sister-in-laws who are nurses. )

This exactly. I have never seen a teacher start a thread here about being underpaid, or not getting paid for summers. I have however seen them respond to the argument that teachers don't deserve what they get, teachers are lazy, teachers don't work enough, teachers don't care, ect to attempt to clear up those misconceptions and then been accused of whining about thier jobs. The reality of the situation is that teachers work many hours oursideo f when children are present at school. Most in the general public don't realize just how much time that really amounts to.

 

[2qtkids]

I think the thing that bothers me most in this thread is that nobody is questioning how and when other professionals use their paid time off, be it personal or vacation days- just teachers are under scrutiny. It doesn't matter when school is and isn't in session; if the contract allows for days off during the school year, that's the end of the discussion. Who are you to question when they are taken? If you have an issue with teachers being out of the classroom during the school, take it up with your school board and the teachers' unions; don't pass judgement on teachers who exercise the benefits of their jobs.

There's no clapping icon, but I'm doing a standing ovation over here.

I'm a teacher, and you know what I'm sick of? People complaining about how much we get paid. How much time off we have in the summer. How HORRIBLE our school system is, and then cutting funding to the education department. How does that make sense?? I have 2 Masters degrees and my starting salary will be about $40k. In what industry does that sound like a "cushy" job?

If we want to place blame on someone, we should turn our focus to the politicians who put us here in the first place. I do not understand why teachers, who have so little control over what happens-- what we are "forced" to teach (like test prep and more test prep); how much time the ridiculous testing we are forced to do takes away from things we could actually be teaching the children, like READING and WRITING-- are forced to defend themselves. I've never seen so much scrutiny over a job so many admittedly would not take. No wonder so many people are leaving the profession.

Sorry, my little vent is over.

 

[mb_uh]

This post is inappropriate. If you have issues with your staff, you should deal with them in person, not gripe about them on a public message board.

For the sake of your reputation, you should look into an educational ethics course before making further public posts about internal administrative issues.

If you read the first page my question was as a parent to parents. Until I came to these boards, I had never heard of teachers taking vacations during the school year. I wondered from the parents point of view how they felt about it.

Not sure that effects you personally

 

[meredith1]

I don't know how they would get away witrh this. Where are the students when the teachers are taking an hour lunch and who is responsible for them??? How are they meeting the minimum 6.5 hours of instructional time per day with 5.5 hours a day put in by teachers?? Here students are on campus for 7 hours with a 25 min supervised lunch. Elementary and Middle eat in the cafeteria with thier students, and high school rotates lunch duty. Teachers are required to be there at least 15 min before nad 15 min after students, but most put in far more than that. I am putting in about an hour less than you actually at school but I am also taking work home almost every night. My alarm goes off at 4:45. I have to be at school by 6:50. I typically leave about 3:00 to pick up DD and we go back to school for another hour for me to work on things I cannot take home, or I drop her at dance and go back alone. I spend about an hour a night grading after she is in bed. I wish I could get home by 5:15 every night.

I cannot believe there are actually still people out ther that believe teachers only work 5 hours a day 180 days a year.

In Plano, Texas elementary school goes from 7:45 to 2:30. Teachers are expected to be there no later than 7:30 but, most show up at 7:00 and stay well past 4:30. Our lunches are about 30 minutes but, they are duty free. Once you get to the lounge, eat and have to be back on duty in the room at best it's a 20 minute lunch and yes, we do get paid for that. lol-

I typically spent 2-3+ hours EVERY evening grading and preparing for the next day. I loved it though....I was single then and my kids and their parents were my world.

At the end of the day it is like another job with take home work. As with any other job, teachers get X amount of personal days and they DO use them as they see fit. Those of you that have issues with it just need to suck it up and to OP-I'm fairly certain that if you went to the superintendent with this he/she would look at you like an idiot.

 

[my3sons77]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a teacher taking a vacation during the school year. Everybody deserves to have a vacation. Especially one to Disney!!!

Right now one of my sons teachers is out on maternity leave for the remainder of the year and the kids are left with a long term sub. Should she have had her baby in the summer just to make it more convenient for the kids and parents not to deal with a sub? No.

You take your vacations when you can. Summer rates are higher. Maybe she got a heck of a pin code and could only afford to take her family during that week of the school year.

We need to start seeing things from outside of the box. Think of all the different scenarios before we are so quick to judge.

 

[EKW]

I thought OP was simply asking opinions from the parents side. What it evolved into is another story but I thought she was disagreeing with what a teacher did but maybe was wondering if parents would agree or not. I don't think that's an inappropriate question.

If she had introduced herself as a parent, I would have no problem with the post. My concern is due to the fact that she says she is an Administrator...and the implication that she would try to have a teacher disciplined or fired by going to the Superintendent over this issue.

First, if the contract the teachers sign states that they have 5 discretionary days, it is completely inappropriate for her, as a parent or administrator, to try to place a teacher's job in jeopardy over this issue. If she has issues with the contract she should go to the board, state her concerns, and ask for the contract to be amended to state that the days may not be used for vacations. Many districts actually have a clause that states this.

Second, if these are her teachers or any teachers that she might ever be asked to review, it is unethical for her to bring the issue to a public forum. Would you respect your boss if he/she went online to whine about you and your coworkers?

Third, after nearly three decades in public education, I've come to realize that there are a number of administrator-types. The most dangerous are the toxic administrators who demand that teachers rubber-stamp decisions that are based on their opinions rather than research or law, then attempt to destroy the reputation and career of anyone who dares to question. If the OP is really an administrator, the post makes me believe she falls into this category. Teaching is hard enough without having power-hungry martinets lay mine fields on key issues such as this. It's frightening to think she is coming here to gather "research" she can present to the superintendent in an attempt to crush a teacher who took a vacation that the teacher's contract allows!

 

[whatsup]

Does it really matter to anyone? It is HIS/HER vacation time to use as they wish! It is not up to anyone as to her decision to go where or when he/she may want to. Does anyone tell you how to use your vacation time?

 

[mb_uh]

Will you please lock this post. I had a question about how parents felt- I got many various answers. Many which surprised me. Unfortunately this has devolved into a negative argument and I feel that it is time for it to end.

Thank you,