Teacher Participation......

[mdsoccermom]

I guess I am just confused, at why asking 4-5 teachers to show up at an after school function and have some fun, with or without their own children is too much to ask. The reason we didn't ask them to be in charge of anything, is so they could enjoy themselves. Perhaps, just have a little "fun" with their students and their families without such a structured environment, such as in the classroom.

Because maybe after school, they have their own family and kids' activities to attend to. Maybe they really aren't into having fun with their students and families. There is nothing wrong with that.

Forgot to mention.....even the school janitor (who works the day shift) and is also paid salary (and makes ALOT less money) even came out in full halloween attire and had a ball with the kids! It's just a difference in the attitudes of people I guess........

I suspect that he may have been paid some overtime to clean up after the dance.

 

[brymolmom]

I can see that teachers have their own lives to attend to after school, with their own children who have schedules to keep also. How often do other professions attend events outside of work time?

In professional positions, I think that it happens all the time. No one I know actually only works 9:00 - 5:00. There are often evening go-lives, parties, vendor presentations, etc.

 

[Hannathy]

In professional positions, I think that it happens all the time. No one I know actually only works 9:00 - 5:00. There are often evening go-lives, parties, vendor presentations, etc.

Yep lots and lots of times.

 

[mamaLori05]

You've hit the nail on the head.

I work. I am busy. My kids, have many activities outside of school as well. What I do for my kids school, is NOT for my benefit. It is for the benefit of my kids, their peers and the teaching administrative staff. We want a happy positive, safe environment, for our kids to THRIVE not just SURVIVE their school years. Relationship building, is done in the classroom but is also done through many "extra" activities.

Yes, but a lot of teachers have children themeselves, and are also trying to do the same thing you are doing for their OWN children! Teachers do things outside of school all the time for their students, whether parents know it or not. It's not fair to expect the teachers to leave their own family behind so that they can put everything they have into your children. I understand that their families were invited, but it's not the same for the teachers as it is for other parents bringing their children. Even though you say the teachers have no responsibility at the events, a lot of parents still expect them to keep the event under control. There are a lot of parents out there that will see that the teacher is there and just assume that they are watching their kids. Sure the teachers want to see their students having fun, but they don't want to be in charge of them all the time. At the same time, the teachers also want to see their own children and families having a good time. Unless you can somehow guarantee that the parents aren't going to be coming up to them all night talking about how their little johnny is doing in reading, they aren't going to be able to enjoy their own family at the event. Teachers need and deserve a break once in awhile too!

 

[mamaLori05]

In professional positions, I think that it happens all the time. No one I know actually only works 9:00 - 5:00. There are often evening go-lives, parties, vendor presentations, etc.

But that is totally different. They are socializing with other ADULT people they work with. It's often a relaxed environment. There is no obligation to keep an eye on anyone, as they are all adults and can take care of themselves. As much as you want to call a school event a relaxed environment, it will never be one to a teacher.

Also, most other "professional positions" I know of either pay their employee's to attend an event at night, or they aren't expected to be there. If they are attending a vendor presentation outside of work hours, they are either getting paid, or WANT to be there for their own knowledge or career gain. The advantages just aren't the same for a teacher.

 

[disykat]

Interesting.
Thanks for the responses. I guess I am expecting to much. I guess if they aren't being paid for it, there would be resistance to coming. Perhaps asking them to volunteer next year may get them out. I guess I am crazy in thinking, the teachers may actually WANT to see the kids dressed up, having fun and maybe dance a little "monster mash" with them.....and wouldn't think of it as a chore.

LOL - You're forgetting that the teachers probably already did those things with your kids.

Forgot to mention.....even the school janitor (who works the day shift) and is also paid salary (and makes ALOT less money) even came out in full halloween attire and had a ball with the kids! It's just a difference in the attitudes of people I guess........

Some people are really 'into' Halloween and want as much of it as they can squeeze in. Others are pretty much relieved when it's over. To me, that's not attitude, that's preference. Some people enjoy dancing around in costumes, some don't. (And, having run many PTA fun nights myself - we did pay the Custodian a stipend.)

As I said before, if volunteers are needed, I step up and do it. If I am invited as a guest only, I decide whether to attend based on if it would be enjoyable for me. Having already spent a day "Halloweening" with my students I would decline the invitation.

 

[disykat]

In professional positions, I think that it happens all the time. No one I know actually only works 9:00 - 5:00. There are often evening go-lives, parties, vendor presentations, etc.

Teachers have these things too. Last night I had a professional seminar until 7:00, followed by a 'see and be seen to show my support for the district' stop in at an Election night Levy party.

Because of conferences last week and the Halloween bash, I was at school three nights last week past 7:00. Assuming that because teachers didn't choose to show up at a dance they aren't putting in their time elsewhere is really not fair.

Yes, I think it's great when teachers show an interest in the kids after hours. I have seen many teachers at my kids concerts and events over the years - many of them there without their own kids. When I go to ball games, I see a different set of them. I think they attend those things according to their own interests.

 

[Scurvy]

I guess I am just confused, at why asking 4-5 teachers to show up at an after school function and have some fun, with or without their own children is too much to ask. The reason we didn't ask them to be in charge of anything, is so they could enjoy themselves. Perhaps, just have a little "fun" with their students and their families without such a structured environment, such as in the classroom.

It isn't too much to ask. It's nice to let them know they are welcome to attend. But expecting them to be there is too much, in my opinion. It might not be their idea of fun, and they might prefer to use their free time to do something they actually enjoy with their own family or friends. And of course they might have other obligations for that time. Maybe their spouses have work events they have to attend and the teachers are going with them, or maybe their kids have sports events or their own school dances where the teachers need to volunteer.

Teachers have these things too. Last night I had a professional seminar until 7:00, followed by a 'see and be seen to show my support for the district' stop in at an Election night Levy party.

Because of conferences last week and the Halloween bash, I was at school three nights last week past 7:00. Assuming that because teachers didn't choose to show up at a dance they aren't putting in their time elsewhere is really not fair.

Yes, I think it's great when teachers show an interest in the kids after hours. I have seen many teachers at my kids concerts and events over the years - many of them there without their own kids. When I go to ball games, I see a different set of them. I think they attend those things according to their own interests.

I agree. I have no interest at all in school dances. I didn't when I was in school and I still don't. I'd go for my own child because I'm his parent and if it's important to him it's important to me, but I'm not interested in going for other children. They have their own parents for that. It wouldn't be a fun evening at all for me. On the other hand, I love music and I go to lots of school concerts, even the ones my child isn't involved in.

 

[brymolmom]

But that is totally different. They are socializing with other ADULT people they work with. It's often a relaxed environment. There is no obligation to keep an eye on anyone, as they are all adults and can take care of themselves. As much as you want to call a school event a relaxed environment, it will never be one to a teacher.

Also, most other "professional positions" I know of either pay their employee's to attend an event at night, or they aren't expected to be there. If they are attending a vendor presentation outside of work hours, they are either getting paid, or WANT to be there for their own knowledge or career gain. The advantages just aren't the same for a teacher.

I consider anything 'after hours' for work to be part of my job. And often I don't do it because it is a relaxed night with adults. I'm not asking the teachers to show up because it's fun (but I think many of them would find it fun). I'm asking them to do so as part of their job. And to show gratitude and support for the organization that purchases so many things for them to make their classrooms better and for making their school a better place to be AND work.

Man - I want to work where you do. Every salaried person I know does not get 'extra' pay for after hours things...and often they don't want to be there but are encouraged to do so. Heck - I am in IT and cover an oncall rotation...which means I have to be available to work any hour of the day or night for a week-long at a time on a rotational basis. Lots of after hours work for no extra pay.

And I'm not asking for 'all the time' of COURSE teachers deserve a break. I am asking for a once-in-every-great-while hour or two.

 

[taximomfor4]

OP, it really is sometimes a lot to ask. DH is a teacher. For the beginning of his teaching career, he taught all day and hurried home so I could leave for my evening job. After a few years, same thing except I had to hurry to evening/weekend nursing school. At one point, dh himself had to hurry from work to his own post-grad classes (must do that, to keep his teaching license).

Dh missed the Halloween festivities in his own district, because he took 2 of our kids to their own school's festivities while I took another child to a very important dance rehearsal. Several of dh's coworkers were doing the same thing as dh so also missed the party in their own district. Many, MANY of his coworkers have second jobs.

When I worked in the corporate world, I attended after-work non-mandatory events maybe once every other year. The stars had to align properly, etc, lol.

To the pp who mentioned the janitorial staff at the party, I've personally never heard of the janitor not getting paid a per diem to be there during the event and for a little while afterward for clean-up/lock-up.

My hat is off to you, though, for being a part of having a fun activity like that for the kids at school. While mine tend to have to miss most after-school parties, etc, I know that those who do attend really enjoy them.

 

[mamaLori05]

I consider anything 'after hours' for work to be part of my job. And often I don't do it because it is a relaxed night with adults. I'm not asking the teachers to show up because it's fun (but I think many of them would find it fun). I'm asking them to do so as part of their job. And to show gratitude and support for the organization that purchases so many things for them to make their classrooms better and for making their school a better place to be AND work.

Man - I want to work where you do. Every salaried person I know does not get 'extra' pay for after hours things...and often they don't want to be there but are encouraged to do so. Heck - I am in IT and cover an oncall rotation...which means I have to be available to work any hour of the day or night for a week-long at a time on a rotational basis. Lots of after hours work for no extra pay.

And I'm not asking for 'all the time' of COURSE teachers deserve a break. I am asking for a once-in-every-great-while hour or two.

My dh is in IS as well (works with the IT dept all the time), he's a manager of a team in IS, so I am well aware of the nightly calls. We have them often in our household as well. They have disrupted many dinners, etc... However my dh and I both agree that his salary reflects all those on call nights, it's why they get paid what they do. It's part of the job description.

However, I think you are forgetting that teachers have to deal with similar things on a daily basis. The things that are in their job description. If little Johnny is having trouble, the teacher is most likely contacting the parents at night to take care of that situation (because that is when the parents are available). They get phone calls and emails from parents at all hours on issues that need to be taken care of, and they take care of them. Teachers have meetings galore after school (and often at night) that they are required to attend, IEP meetings for special Ed children (which alone require LOTS of outside time just to prepare for the meeting), meetings on the latest teaching style, ect... What I am trying to say is that teachers already do a lot outside of work that most people don't even realize. Preparing the lesson plans alone takes a lot of work, and there isn't enough time during the day to get those plans finished. They take that work home and continue it later. They already work well beyond the 9-5. It's all relative.

What is being talked about here is a social event. I'm sorry, but I don't see how someone can EXPECT a teacher to come to a social event just because it is at their school. I don't know of any profession where people are expected to come to social events, unless they are either getting paid, or it's somehow beneficial to that person's career. It's not a social event otherwise. Teachers already do a lot for their schools, they can't do everything. If they went to all the sporting events, school dances, you name it, they would never see their own family!! I understand that you think you are only asking them to come to one once in a while, but they also want to spend some time with their families once in a while too! Just because you don't see them at a school dance does not mean they didn't attend another event at another time, or didn't already spend a ton of extra time working on school stuff that week. Follow a teacher around for a week and I'm pretty sure your opinion would change.

 

[LuvLDM]

Frankly Op, it's really none of your business why teachers didn't attend this particular function.
They have lives just like everyone else, they should not have to account for how they spend their free time.

 

[KAMLEM]

Also, most other "professional positions" I know of either pay their employee's to attend an event at night, or they aren't expected to be there. If they are attending a vendor presentation outside of work hours, they are either getting paid, or WANT to be there for their own knowledge or career gain.

I don't know of any profession where people are expected to come to social events, unless they are either getting paid, or it's somehow beneficial to that person's career.

I completely disagree. Throughout my entire career there have been social events at night that I have been required to go to and I have NEVER been paid extra. There are many times when I did not want to go but I did not have a choice. This is VERY common.

 

[brymolmom]

My dh is in IS as well (works with the IT dept all the time), he's a manager of a team in IS, so I am well aware of the nightly calls. We have them often in our household as well. They have disrupted many dinners, etc... However my dh and I both agree that his salary reflects all those on call nights, it's why they get paid what they do. It's part of the job description.

However, I think you are forgetting that teachers have to deal with similar things on a daily basis. The things that are in their job description. If little Johnny is having trouble, the teacher is most likely contacting the parents at night to take care of that situation (because that is when the parents are available). They get phone calls and emails from parents at all hours on issues that need to be taken care of, and they take care of them. Teachers have meetings galore after school (and often at night) that they are required to attend, IEP meetings for special Ed children (which alone require LOTS of outside time just to prepare for the meeting), meetings on the latest teaching style, ect... What I am trying to say is that teachers already do a lot outside of work that most people don't even realize. Preparing the lesson plans alone takes a lot of work, and there isn't enough time during the day to get those plans finished. They take that work home and continue it later. They already work well beyond the 9-5. It's all relative.

What is being talked about here is a social event. I'm sorry, but I don't see how someone can EXPECT a teacher to come to a social event just because it is at their school. I don't know of any profession where people are expected to come to social events, unless they are either getting paid, or it's somehow beneficial to that person's career. It's not a social event otherwise. Teachers already do a lot for their schools, they can't do everything. If they went to all the sporting events, school dances, you name it, they would never see their own family!! I understand that you think you are only asking them to come to one once in a while, but they also want to spend some time with their families once in a while too! Just because you don't see them at a school dance does not mean they didn't attend another event at another time, or didn't already spend a ton of extra time working on school stuff that week. Follow a teacher around for a week and I'm pretty sure your opinion would change.

I totally agree- that's why I would never imagine to ask a teacher to go to all the dances, activities, sporting events, etc. All I am asking for is 1 - 2 hours once or twice a year. That's it. That's ALL I would expect. And even that, if there are circumstances in a given year that make it impossible to do so that year, even less on occassion.

Oh and I attend almost every PTO event as a board member, and I am very knowledgeable about our teacher participation. We have Board meetings and discuss it (and one of us is at every event).

We all need to spend time with our families, but we all have jobs to do too. And if an organization made your job easier/better AND saved you a bunch of money that you likely would have spent on buying extras for your classrooms (I know so many teachers who do this), then yes, I expect some support for that organization.

Now if a PTO was doing nothing to make working at that school better and doing nothing to improve the classrooms or anything like that - then I wouldn't expect it. But ours does make their jobs better, and yes I expect some support - very, very LITTLE amount of support, but some.

I never said teachers don't do a ton of work and school stuff after hours, as I know they do. But I still think they should give back a little bit to the PTO.

 

[dunbarfamily]

As a teacher, I just have to say that I can't make everything. We do a ton of stuff that parents don't see that occurs after hours. Plus, depending on the timing, many teachers don't have anyone to watch their own kids for things like this. Typically, these things also end up being mini parent-teacher conferences when teachers are there, which is hard when you are not prepared and not in a place to do that. It's just really hard for a teacher. I can understand your side as well, since I am a parent, too and have only been a teacher a few years. But, teachers do so much work at home and on weekends, that it's really hard for them to attend other events- mainly because it's more time away from families. I am away from my family, or working so not involved with them, more now than when I had a corporate job that had me working many more hours in the office. Plus, I'm not really sure why you'd want the teachers there- just to stand there? If they are not paying to come, it doesn't help your fund for them to be there, so they'd be just there. If they are expected to pay, then think about all the money they already put into the school and do not get reimbursed for. As much as I love my school, most extra money goes to help the schools my kids go to. And teachers tend to need to have some order and control, which they wouldn't be allowed to do- it's very frustrating to see the kids running around and parents doing nothing about it. I would expect that this would be the case a little as well. Sorry that this was all over the place- just typed as my brain jumped around!

Very well said!

 

[taximomfor4]

I completely disagree. Throughout my entire career there have been social events at night that I have been required to go to and I have NEVER been paid extra. There are many times when I did not want to go but I did not have a choice. This is VERY common.

But Halloween parties put on by the PTA or whatever are something everyone DOES have a choice about. The students don't have to attend, parents don't have to attend, teachers don't have to attend. Those who want to put on the event do so. Those who want to attend the event do so. I hope people don't complain behind my back that I don't take my kids to the school's evening events -- and I won't complain that so few teachers attend them.

To tell the truth, even if a teacher doesn't come to the party just because they need a break from being around 100's of kids every day, I'm fine with THAT. I'd rather they save their patience for when they must be there to teach.

 

[PaulaSue]

Our teachers have a life outside of school. (many have kids in sports here) I dont expect any of them to show up unless they have a kid in those grades.

 

[palavra]

Although I do attend some sporting and holiday events, I cant tell you the main reason that many teachers don't like to attend. Some parents corner the teacher and try to monopolize his or her time with suggestions about the classroom, tips for helping little Johnny or gripes about what is going on in the classroom, the school administration or even the teacher herself. It really is like being on the front line of a battle sometimes. We teachers much prefer to schedule conferences when there is a time and nd place to talk about things in a proper manner.

 

[goofy53073]

I am the owner of 2 preschools and we have a few events that happen outside of the normal school hours that employees are expected to attend. I think there are approx 4 of them and the staff is paid to attend them. Now of course not everyone can make each event and that is o.k.

It is probably different when you are dealing with people who are not getting paid and who probably have their own families and committments and also may not live that close to the school.

I am very lucky that at my kids elementary school it seems that many of the teachers attend PTA sponsered events such as the BINGO night, square dance and science fair. It is nice when the teachers show up and the kids get to see them in a less formal setting. But, don't get me started on parents who start quizzing teachers/administrators about their child while at a social function I get this when I go to the grocery store sometimes

 

[okeydokey]

Frankly Op, it's really none of your business why teachers didn't attend this particular function.
They have lives just like everyone else, they should not have to account for how they spend their free time.

I agree. Just because you are a teacher, it doesn't obligate you to attend the "fun" events outside of work time. Maybe they don't think they are as much fun as you do and that's perfectly OK.