Teacher opinions needed please!

[kristen821]

My ds is in second grade and they use the everday math program. The parents I have talked to and myself hate it. I feel that I have to teach him everything at home, because he doesn't learn it in school. The program jumps from one topic to the next, but they never seem to actually learn the main idea. They are working on fractions now did division and multiplication last week etc. etc., but they never actually learn the concept. The program adds from left to right instead of the way we did it from right to left. My son understands the way I taught him but not the way they are suppose to add and subtract in this program. I don't know if the problem is with the teacher or the program in general. If it is the program do you think if I got enough parents together we can get the math program changed at his school?

Anyway, I was wondering if any of you wonderful teachers use this program. How do you like it? Does it get any better after second grade?

Thank you for your help and sorry for the long post.

 

[Pooh's Pixie]

I also have a second grader in everyday math. I understand what you are saying about the jumping around (they call it "spiraling"). My son does not like math but oddly he doesn't mind the concepts as they are taught in ED, he really hates math facts. His teacher is a believer that ED doesn't give them the strength in math facts so she still takes the time to drill them and do math fact quizzes. He hates that but he can look at the fraction stuff and has no problem . Anyway, I've spoken with the teachers at length about ED and his teacher seems to think that the kids do learn more and they learn more "math sense" (like common sense) which will help them apply math more than our generation. Of course, we'll see about that!

Hang in there and maybe talk to his teacher. It could be that the teacher is having trouble teaching it (esp if it's new). I know the teachers around here had to get used to it. Our school system seems to have good support for the teachers in that they do a lot of workshops with it and have teacher leaders that help the other teachers with the curriculum.
Good luck!

 

[bananiem]

Our district has been using it for about 5-6 years. We've only been here for 2 so I can't say what it was like in 2nd grade. I do know that on standardized tests the district as a whole does better on the math portion than the reading. It's usually the other way around.
Our town is the home of the Mayo Clinic and a big IBM plant. Maybe the kids are just genetically better at math.

 

[kristen821]

I am kind of wondering if it is the teaching skill of the teacher too. I have the upmost respect for teachers it isn't a job that I can do, but I don't see eye to eye with ds's teacher. I told ds he needs to start telling his teacher he doesn't understand, but when he does she reads the directions to him. It isn't the directions he doesn't understand it is the actual work. According to ds and other students in the class the teacher does a problem or two on the board and then gives them the homework. They don't do any class work so she can see if they understand and they don't do any problems on the board either. I have told her that ds doesn't seem to be getting it and I don't know how to teach it since it isn't the way I was taught. She said she would keep on eye on him, but so far I am teaching him when he gets home. I am sure I am confusing him even more since I only know my way and not the way of the program that is completely different from what we learned.

 

[disfanRN]

My DD is in 5th grade and has been taught with Everday Math since kindergarten. I was also getting concerned around 2nd grade when they were jumping but not mastering anything. The teacher also thought the lack of emphasis on math facts was a shortcoming of the program, and added it to the curriculum, which we also emphasized at home.
That being said, she is now in the 5th grade and I am amazed at her critical thinking abilities. A strength of the program is to encourage creative problem solving, and it helps reach many different kids since we know they don't all learn the same way. The methods may not make much sense, but it is the creative thinking behind them that lasts. Your child may not use the "lattice"(only everyday mathe parents will know what I am referring to here) method for life, but it does show them a different appraoch to solve problems that may be useful later on.

Also, I found the everyday math website very helpful as a parent, it has a glossary and references and examples. It really helped me help my DD when she did not understand things.

 

[Marseeya]

We have a similar program -- might even be the same one. You're right about having to teach it at home. That's all we do and it's so difficult. DD has had more homework as an elementary student than I ever did in middle school or high school!

 

[paigevz]

No, but I've seen the method. I don't agree with it (I am a 2nd grade teacher). We are doing traditional mathematics with a traditional company's traditional textbook. We have recently added TARGET math, which is a supplement that simply targets the knowledge and skills identified as essential by our district, breaks them up into small tasks that take 5-10 min per day, and cycles through in two weeks time. It confuses the kids, because the concepts start right away with everything to be learned in second grade, and some we STILL haven't taught yet. Also, the temperature is done in 5 degree increments instead of 2 like a standard thermometer and how we teach them. But, I can see the strength of it, and next year I plan not to add the things we haven't taught until we've taught them.........even if I have to cycle more quickly.

Now, we are moving to a new method called TERC. This method says we are not to teach the children how to do things. We are to give them materials to explore, ask them to do something (like count coins), then ask them how they did it. We are not to show them how. Is that the most ridiculous thing you ever heard? I debated with the program's representative for a bit in the meetings, and finally got her to admit that they do need to be shown how, but you are to "lead them through questioning" to doing it. Well, what if the kid can't be led through questioning? What if the kid just doesn't get it? Then what? Then, nothing, I was told, just continue to let them explore the materials and learn on their own. What do they need to come to school for then? We'll just buy them all materials and have them sent to their houses and they'll know how to do math. Right?

It's like the whole language program was in reading. You've just got to have a balance. Yes, the kids need to explore, they need to see different ways to solve problems, but they also need to be shown ways to do it, so they can understand what is happening.

Anyway, likely this is also new to the teacher, and she may not understand it herself. I'd attack the program, if I were you. Even ask the teacher if she likes this program. It may not make a difference this year, but it could help in future decisions for math programs.

 

[Pammyb]

I have a few points to make regarding ED Math. First, I want to state that I was on the curriculum committee making the decision to change to ED Math. Given our student populuation, basically low-level second language learners, it was the best option as it did not rely totally on vocabulary to teach. Much of it is hands on.

Some of what is taught is merely an introduction. It is not expected that the student will master these concepts. It is merely introducing a concept so that when it is taught again in another grade there will be a "hook" so to speak to attach the new information to. This is the "spiraling". This is our schools second year using ED Math. Last year was horrible, but this year we can see the effects of the spiraling. The students really seem to enjoy it and are doing quite well, given the 2nd language issues.

We still do math fact drills even though ED Math does not stress them. Also, a very key component is teacher training. We have really worked at getting the training to teach these different methods and it has paid off!!

Any questions, please ask!!

 

[kristen821]

No
Now, we are moving to a new method called TERC. This method says we are not to teach the children how to do things. We are to give them materials to explore, ask them to do something (like count coins), then ask them how they did it. We are not to show them how. Is that the most ridiculous thing you ever heard? I debated with the program's representative for a bit in the meetings, and finally got her to admit that they do need to be shown how, but you are to "lead them through questioning" to doing it. Well, what if the kid can't be led through questioning? What if the kid just doesn't get it? Then what? Then, nothing, I was told, just continue to let them explore the materials and learn on their own. What do they need to come to school for then? We'll just buy them all materials and have them sent to their houses and they'll know how to do math. Right?

It's like the whole language program was in reading. You've just got to have a balance. Yes, the kids need to explore, they need to see different ways to solve problems, but they also need to be shown ways to do it, so they can understand what is happening.

Wow that doesn't make sense to me either.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

We moved to a District that was using this program when my kids were in 5th and 1st Grades. After observing it for a couple of months, I felt it was a disaster. I researched it a bit on the internet and found numerous reviews from parents, educators, and children who also felt -- disaster.

When my son was in 6th grade I started volunteering in the school's Math lab. Child after child who could not do Math because they had a very poor understanding of their Math facts and basic Math concepts. Disaster. Frankly, I honestly do not care if a 4th grader can explain to me in words that to find the area of a triangle you take the base times the height and divide it by 2, because if they do not know 8*7=56, that knowledge is worthless to them.

I agree with the concept of Spiraling. My middle child is in a school that uses Saxon Math right now and that book spirals the topics all the time. Everyday Math is not spiraling because it does a very poor job of ever requiring the Mastery of any topic. It is a "sampling" of concepts where children superficially cover topic after topic, but mastery of the topics is never required.

BTW, after two years away from Everyday Mathematics and in a fundamentally sound program, my son's Terra Nova Math scores have gone from the 55th percentile and into the 90th percentile.

 

[Microcell]

I feel like a bad parent, I don't know what math program DD (2nd grade) does, but it seems to involve rote memorization, which I am a fan of, but I fail to understand why she needs to be able to do 30 addition or subtraction problems in under a minute. I tested myself, a college graduate and I can't do it. Those darned 9's and 8's mess me up! .

 

[mudnuri]

our schools use ED math as well, and both of my girls are thriving in math. They have a 'homework' book that comes stays at home. The math homework has the page number on the top to show more/explain to the parents what the kids are doing etc... We use the book nightly with math homework. It may also help that both DD's are 2 grades above in reading- so the word problems are easier for them than a classmate with reading issue's. DD's are 3rd and 4th grade

Brandy

 

[kristen821]

We used to get answer sheets with every lesson, but we haven't been getting them. My biggest problem is trying to explain the homework to my son. I don't know how to teach it.

 

[Pooh's Pixie]

Frankly, I honestly do not care if a 4th grader can explain to me in words that to find the area of a triangle you take the base times the height and divide it by 2, because if they do not know 8*7=56, that knowledge is worthless to them.

True, I agree they need to emphasize facts and it is very helpful if the school recognizes that and does that additionally (like mine). However, I think the concept of ED is that it DOES matter that the kid growing up can look at a geometry issue like you explain and figure it out. Realistically, they will use a calculator to get the actual answer. And ED does teach them a lot about estimating, so they can actually figure out if they are on the right track.

It's a whole new world, but I do like the fact that my son can figure out problems on his own...critical thinking is key.

 

[SandiH]

My kids use ED Math and at first it was frustrating for me because they were learning things so differently than I did. Witht he help of the newsletter and Homework book that came home a few years ago - we've been able to work through any issues they have had. Even when my 5th grader didn't understand the concept the first day of homework - by the next day (and another lesson) he got it. Now I don't think that this program is for everyone either - I see my students with Autism have a more difficult time with it because it does jump around and can be very confusing for them.

If your child seems to be having trouble - I'd conference with the teacher to find out how you can better support your child's learning at home - just like I would for my child that might be struggling with any curriculum the school is using. I think it would be difficult for you to change the building's or school's adopted curriculum - they go through a lot of work to make those decisions.

 

[Pammyb]

As our world has become more complex, it is important that our children do more than recite formulas and facts. It is also important that they realize there is more than one way to solve a problem. There is not a curriculum in this world that will be ideal for all students-they are human beings, not machines. I realize that ED Math is not for everybody, but it encourages the skills that are necessary in today's world as well as those that will be used on most state assessment-our WASL for example. Being able to explain why is mandatory on our state assessment, and ED Math encourages that!

 

[kristen821]

My kids use ED Math and at first it was frustrating for me because they were learning things so differently than I did. Witht he help of the newsletter and Homework book that came home a few years ago - we've been able to work through any issues they have had. Even when my 5th grader didn't understand the concept the first day of homework - by the next day (and another lesson) he got it. Now I don't think that this program is for everyone either - I see my students with Autism have a more difficult time with it because it does jump around and can be very confusing for them.

If your child seems to be having trouble - I'd conference with the teacher to find out how you can better support your child's learning at home - just like I would for my child that might be struggling with any curriculum the school is using. I think it would be difficult for you to change the building's or school's adopted curriculum - they go through a lot of work to make those decisions.

Did you get these homework book from the school or did you purchase them somewhere? My son does fine when he gets home and I teach it to him, but I don't think I am teaching it the way they want him to learn it. I know I taught him to add wrong, but he couldn't do it from the left to right, but has no problem from right to left, but I also know I am probably doing him more harm then good by teaching him the traditinal way when they are not doing that in school.
I've talked to his teacher and she said she didn't realize he wasn't getting it because he didn't raise his hand and tell her (which I wouldn't have either as a kid) so when I told him he needs to let her know when he doesn't understand he did and he says she reads the homework directions to him. They don't do any math worksheets in school so she wouldn't have any way of knowing unless he told her. Reading the directions to him isn't helping him because he can read the directions himself. I really wish they would change the program, but I am not sure if it is the way the teacher teaches it or if it is my ds that is having a hard time with it. All the other parents I know seem to be saying the same thing.

 

[SandiH]

I just pulled out the book - it's called Everyday Mathematics Math Manual for Parents. We got it from the school district. It has the information on what the kids do in class, the philosphy, etc. and glossary of terms for each grade level. The kids do have journals (workbooks) that they use in school. I know in first grade - a lot of the journals are done as a group. The school should be sending home newsletter about what the kids are learning in math and how to do it as well as the answers to the homelinks. There have been many of times I needed to refer to those to make sure we were doing it right.

It also sounds like it may be a teaching issue. Most kids - especially in second grade, aren't going to raise their hand to say they aren't getting it. It's her job to do checks and make sure she's questioning each kid to ensure that they are indeed getting it. You may want to ask her watch him do a problem so she know's he's got it. Re-reading directions is not reteaching it. It sounds like she needs to break it down further.

Good luck!

 

[kristen821]

I just pulled out the book - it's called Everyday Mathematics Math Manual for Parents. We got it from the school district. It has the information on what the kids do in class, the philosphy, etc. and glossary of terms for each grade level. The kids do have journals (workbooks) that they use in school. I know in first grade - a lot of the journals are done as a group. The school should be sending home newsletter about what the kids are learning in math and how to do it as well as the answers to the homelinks. There have been many of times I needed to refer to those to make sure we were doing it right.

It also sounds like it may be a teaching issue. Most kids - especially in second grade, aren't going to raise their hand to say they aren't getting it. It's her job to do checks and make sure she's questioning each kid to ensure that they are indeed getting it. You may want to ask her watch him do a problem so she know's he's got it. Re-reading directions is not reteaching it. It sounds like she needs to break it down further.

Good luck!

Thank you I will have to get a hold of one of those books. At least then he would be taught how they want him to learn it. I am hoping next year will be better! I don't think ds works on a workbook in school either. I will have to ask him when he gets home, but I think that is probably what the teacher sends home for homework. The homework is always torn out of a workbook.

 

[m&m's mom]

Thank you I will have to get a hold of one of those books. At least then he would be taught how they want him to learn it. I am hoping next year will be better! I don't think ds works on a workbook in school either. I will have to ask him when he gets home, but I think that is probably what the teacher sends home for homework. The homework is always torn out of a workbook.

My Mom usually does homework w/ the girls for pretty much this reason. Now she has her PhD and I went to graduate school - between both of we can usually get it.
I am definitely going to ask about that book, I don't care if I have to buy, at least I will not look like an idiot to my 9Y0DD.