Taking Kids Out of School

[asmit4]

It seems to me though- that most districts are willing to work with parents who take their kids out of school for a few days a year---5 days or less....so a lot of this is basically us arguing over something that frankly- isn't that big of a deal- per school districts.

My district doesn't care unless you hit 20 days...and I'd never dream of taking my child out for anywhere near that amount for anything other than a medical reason. 5 days to me is my max for K-8. YMMV.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

@Angel, that is fair enough.

Parents need to be willing to put their energy where it belongs and confront district administrators. In other words, be "that" parent in the right place!

You're still a step too low in the chain. Your beef is with the state. Just as the teachers are enforcing the principal's policy and the principal is enforcing the district's policy, the district is in many cases (attendance in particular) enforcing state policy.

 

[ifjf414]

So funny how snarky people get when challenged and how they try and make non-relevant comparisons.

I missed school for vacations and other activities (which provided non-classroom knowledge that I use every day), graduated from a top ten university, and have a director level position with a six figure salary. So, yes I am gainfully employed. I can assure you that I did not get where I am by folding every time a conflict arises. However, my career life is completely irrelevant to this topic.

For the record, I would think parenting would better equate to being president of your own company (though I find these comparisons to be overreaching, at best): 1) you become as knowledgeable as you can; 2), are keenly aware that your decisions directly affect the well being of others; 3) are open to new thoughts and ways of doing things; 4) listen to advice, but trust your gut; and 5) stand up and make the decisions you believe are in the best interest of the company and it's employees and take full responsibility for the decisions that you made.

That's about as close to parenting as the work model gets.

Amen

 

[cattywampus]

You're still a step too low in the chain. Your beef is with the state. Just as the teachers are enforcing the principal's policy and the principal is enforcing the district's policy, the district is in many cases (attendance in particular) enforcing state policy.

To some extent, I agree. However, the difference in policy from district to district (even within the same state) shows that there is a lot of interpretation going on at the district level.

For example, some say that it is district policy that a student not be allowed to make up the work. How is that in the best interest of educating children? That is just school officials being punitive and trying to "make it hurt" by withholding education. Just plain wrong and not required by any state or federal law.

 

[mummabear]

Unfortunately, I have made my judgement based off of several of your statements. Has nothing to do with knowing you as a person. If you are the type of parent who thinks the school rules are for other kids and will challenge administration every time your kid doesn't get his/her way, I'm respectfully explaining to you what the staff REALLY thinks of you and your kid. I've encountered 2,500 students in my 13 years and, therefore, 2,500 sets of parents. I've read hundreds of parent emails. I can sniff out the tone of entitlement from a mile away.

Come on, stop bashing this PP. Teaching your kids to think for themselves and not blindly follow rules but to respectfully question them is an important part of parenting.
Saying that she teaches her kid to do so does not make them "that" parent or "that" kid automatically.
If people never questioned the rules then the races would still be segregated, women wouldn't be able to vote and men wouldn't be allowed into the delivery suite. Questioning authority is an incredibly important skill to learn.

A case has just finished in court here in NZ where a school had suspended a kid until he cut his hair after a new principal started and took a different interpretation of the rule "your hair must be off your collar and out of your eyes" then the principal at the school for the previous 3 years. The kid/parents won.

 

[asmit4]

Come on, stop bashing this PP. Teaching your kids to think for themselves and not blindly follow rules but to respectfully question them is an important part of parenting.
Saying that she teaches her kid to do so does not make them "that" parent or "that" kid automatically.
If people never questioned the rules then the races would still be segregated, women wouldn't be able to vote and men wouldn't be allowed into the delivery suite. Questioning authority is an incredibly important skill to learn.

A case has just finished in court here in NZ where a school had suspended a kid until he cut his hair after a new principal started and took a different interpretation of the rule "your hair must be off your collar and out of your eyes" then the principal at the school for the previous 3 years. The kid/parents won.

 

[Planogirl]

Our school district won't excuse absences for vacations. They might make an exception for extreme cases but just because it's too hot or whatever doesn't fly. They also forbid teachers from giving work previous to vacations. They make no secret of this and we all know what to expect.

We moved here even though we were well aware of it. Choosing a particular district due to other factors took priority over vacations. For us.

 

[sgfgrover15]

Interesting. If I had 40 years under my belt at the company, then odds are that my kid(s) would be fully grown and I would be an empty nester. And the last thing I would want to do is take my vacation during the prime summer season. I would vacation in the second week of September through the middle of November. Or in January. Or May. But never, ever in the summer or when schools have vacation weeks. I'd leave those to the younger folks with kids. Not because I was trying to be nice, but because I would just rather travel at a time when families are not.

If you knew the folks he worked with it is totally status! They can take the time so they do. By the time DH could get prime weeks we don't take them, our kids are grown now. It was very frustrating including having to pull the kids from school. It does just show how other folks affect our choices

 

[sgfgrover15]

If someone's been at the same company for 40 years, you're right, they are probably quite a bit older and therefore probably not vacationing at places where families go. They might own a boat, go on a golfing vacation, or to some similarly "adult" location.

And likely some of this as well. I am sure not everyone was selfishly doing it but a good portion bragged about it. We do live in the Adirondacks so summer vacays are the time folks can get outside

 

[asmit4]

Our school district won't excuse absences for vacations. They might make an exception for extreme cases but just because it's too hot or whatever doesn't fly. They also forbid teachers from giving work previous to vacations. They make no secret of this and we all know what to expect.

We moved here even though we were well aware of it. Choosing a particular district due to other factors took priority over vacations. For us.

THIS is the key. KNOW your school's rules. KNOW your kid. Make decisions based on those 2 factors. Our district provides work ahead of time and allows 20 days per year before it becomes a real issue (provided your kid is also keeping at least a C average). Every district is different.

For me- if my kid wasn't making a B+ average or better we would not take him out of school. Each parent has to decide based on their own situation.

 

[Crl1817]

If people never questioned the rules then the races would still be segregated, women wouldn't be able to vote and men wouldn't be allowed into the delivery suite. Questioning authority is an incredibly important skill to learn.

.

But those changes came from publically questioning authority. That's a crucial part of making change. Lying to the authorities about your child being ill does nothing to change the system. (We could also debate whether a movement to allow more children to miss more school so they can go to Disney would analogous to the civil rights movement.)

 

[mummabear]

But those changes came from publically questioning authority. That's a crucial part of making change. Lying to the authorities about your child being ill does nothing to change the system. (We could also debate whether a movement to allow more children to miss more school so they can go to Disney would analogous to the civil rights movement.)

What I am saying is that children need to learn about questioning rules so that later in life they can do so about important issues.

The issue in this case is not that children should miss more school but that schools are out of place making parenting decisions.

PP was not talking about lying, in fact they said they were upfront about what they were doing, just that they were not asking the school if it is ok but telling them that as a parent that is the decision they are making for their child.

 

[Crl1817]

And the public questioning authority started with one person questioning authority.
What I am saying is that children need to learn about questioning rules so that later in life they can do so about important issues.

The issue in this case is not that children should miss more school but that schools are out of place making parenting decisions.

PP was not talking about lying, in fact they said they were upfront about what they were doing, just that they were not asking the school if it is ok but telling them that as a parent that is the decision they are making for their child.

The PP said specifically that they write a note to the school saying their child was sick when they go on vacation to disney world. Apparently the principal knows this is a lie and condones it to maintain funding. It is still a lie and frankly I would be very disappointed in a principal that encouraged people to lie so that he or she could defraud the state government to obtain more school funding. The way to effect change is not, IMO, to lie and perpetuate the status quo through that lying. It is to be a public voice for change and to be willing to accept the consequences if you choose not to follow the rules--that is at the heart of civil disobedience. All of this sets aside whether changing the system would be good for most children.

 

[ariane37]

I also find it funny that NY state law allows homeschooling....the students have to take a multiple choice test every 2 years and prove they are making progress. What IS making progress???? A 33%....YES....33%

These tests have FOUR answers to each question- even if I did it blind folded I'm likely to get a 25%.

So....home school and you have to get a 33% on one test EVERY OTHER year.

OR......

Go to public and be chastised by the school board for a disney vacation that is 5 days. If it was REALLY about the students- 33% wouldn't be passing.

OK OK, I have to say something now! Just wish I knew how to multi-quote posts
Asmit4 I'm wondering if you live in NY? Besides mentioning NY above you said in another post that your district allows 20 absences. If so I'm guessing you were just generalizing when you say above that if you don't homeschool in NY you'd be chastised for going away for 5 days. I'm in NY; we've taken our boys out for vacations every year, and one year twice, since oldest DS now 12 was in kindergarten. Not once have we ever had an issue with a teacher, admin, or the district. I've ALWAYS told the teacher beforehand and also the school office-and I mean told them, not asked
Now both boys do extremely well in school which was a very important factor in our deciding to keep pulling them out. In fact that was really the only thing that concerned me; I told the teachers ahead of time out of respect for them. I'm also extremely involved in the PTA so it's important to me that I keep a good relationship with all the staff in the school............I will also say I have absolutely NO idea what the policy is as far as allowed absences, but I KNOW it has to be way more than 5 lol!! This year ODS12 had 13 in 6th grade and DS8 had 8 in 2nd. (I checked online again right before posting this so I'd be correct). Also checked last years attendance, we went to WDW twice during the school year so DS12 had 16 absences and DS8 had 12-9 days for them were while we were away. I won't call them "approved" b/c nobody approved them but myself and DH but nobody questioned them or gave us flack. Nor were the boys penalized in any way. The official district policy is not to give work to students ahead of time if their going away, but our teachers have always generously given my kids work before we left. In kindergarten and 1st grade, the teachers actually made Disney journals for them-this was 3 different teachers. This year, 6th grade, was the first time 2 of DS's 3 teachers wouldn't give work ahead of time and it was a different school.

I'll also point out, at least on the parent website, all absences are grouped together whether the child was sick or out for another reason. Not that this matters, but DS12 was in the top of his class last year when we went away twice and was on high honor roll all year this year in 6th grade, so obviously 16 and 13 absences didn't affect grades.

A pp said he/she believes all states require a Dr. note or absences "count against" the student and school, or something like that?? I'm not sure exactly what that means but I'm curious about it, as I said I never found out the exact policy for our state or district but, I've never been asked for a Dr.'s note whether kids have been out sick or we've returned from a vacation................

Finally (sorry its long, I always want to post on these "should we take kids out of school" threads but never do!) if my kids' teachers stopped teaching after the state tests I would be PISSED!! Doesn't happen in our district, and I don't see how it can with common core. School ended for us this year on June 25th; DS12 was assigned a group project in SS on the 13th that was due on the 20th

To each their own I say. What bothers me most about these threads is how strict so many states are. I honestly had no idea before reading stuff like this on the Dis!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Come on, stop bashing this PP. Teaching your kids to think for themselves and not blindly follow rules but to respectfully question them is an important part of parenting.
Saying that she teaches her kid to do so does not make them "that" parent or "that" kid automatically.
If people never questioned the rules then the races would still be segregated, women wouldn't be able to vote and men wouldn't be allowed into the delivery suite. Questioning authority is an incredibly important skill to learn.

Nothing about PP's previous posts indicate any sort of respectful questioning. Rather, she comes off like a kid throwing a tantrum in class because he doesn't want to do his homework. "I'm going to do what I want. I don't care what the rules are & I don't care what anyone thinks" is hardly what most would call respectful

You know, in these threads there are always some parents who say, "I know we really shouldn't be pulling our kids for school. But, I really dislike the heat & big crowds, and the savings in the offseason really help. We COULD go in the Summer or over one of the other breaks, but we don't. And we try to really minimize time off school the rest of the year". And everyone from both sides gets that & nobody says anything.

Then, there's always someone who has to come in and grandstand about how they won't be told what to do with their kids & no school is going to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!! And that's when the fight is on.


Kind of a different subject, but back when Missouri passed bumper height maximums, I had 2 friends who had lifted 4x4 trucks that were well over the limit. Jim's truck was taller than Butch's, but both were illegal. Jim got pulled over frequently, and he was always respectful to the officer. Butch also got pulled over frequently, and his response was always to say something like, "Let me tell you why this law sucks!!!".

Guess which one had a fistful of tickets to pay & which one NEVER got a ticket. And yet both were disobeying the rule - one respectfully, one not so much

 

[cattywampus]

Um ....wow! I'm the devil to some folks here, who then think nothing of slinging personal attacks on my character. Nice!

Pot... meet kettle.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The issue in this case is not that children should miss more school but that schools are out of place making parenting decisions.

And this is where I have a fundamental disagreement. Attendance policies aren't schools making "parenting decisions.". Attendance policies aren't really about whether it's OK to take Suzie Q on a vacation for a few days. Attendance policies are in place because there really and truly are parents out there who do not care if their child goes to school at all. Schools are required, by law, to provide a free and appropriate education to all children. Attendance policies are in place to protect the education of those children who might not get to school at all if those laws weren't in place. Schools can't apply a policy to one student and not another, so the policy to protect the education of those who need it takes priority.

Does it suck that supportive, on-top-of-their-kids-education parents have to deal with policies that are designed because of those who don't care? Absolutely. But those children have a *right* to be educated, and if the parent doesn't care whether they get educated or not, who is left to protect that child's right to education other than the school?

 

[asmit4]

OK OK, I have to say something now! Just wish I knew how to multi-quote posts
Asmit4 I'm wondering if you live in NY? Besides mentioning NY above you said in another post that your district allows 20 absences. If so I'm guessing you were just generalizing when you say above that if you don't homeschool in NY you'd be chastised for going away for 5 days. I'm in NY; we've taken our boys out for vacations every year, and one year twice, since oldest DS now 12 was in kindergarten. Not once have we ever had an issue with a teacher, admin, or the district. I've ALWAYS told the teacher beforehand and also the school office-and I mean told them, not asked
Now both boys do extremely well in school which was a very important factor in our deciding to keep pulling them out. In fact that was really the only thing that concerned me; I told the teachers ahead of time out of respect for them. I'm also extremely involved in the PTA so it's important to me that I keep a good relationship with all the staff in the school............I will also say I have absolutely NO idea what the policy is as far as allowed absences, but I KNOW it has to be way more than 5 lol!! This year ODS12 had 13 in 6th grade and DS8 had 8 in 2nd. (I checked online again right before posting this so I'd be correct). Also checked last years attendance, we went to WDW twice during the school year so DS12 had 16 absences and DS8 had 12-9 days for them were while we were away. I won't call them "approved" b/c nobody approved them but myself and DH but nobody questioned them or gave us flack. Nor were the boys penalized in any way. The official district policy is not to give work to students ahead of time if their going away, but our teachers have always generously given my kids work before we left. In kindergarten and 1st grade, the teachers actually made Disney journals for them-this was 3 different teachers. This year, 6th grade, was the first time 2 of DS's 3 teachers wouldn't give work ahead of time and it was a different school.

I'll also point out, at least on the parent website, all absences are grouped together whether the child was sick or out for another reason. Not that this matters, but DS12 was in the top of his class last year when we went away twice and was on high honor roll all year this year in 6th grade, so obviously 16 and 13 absences didn't affect grades.

A pp said he/she believes all states require a Dr. note or absences "count against" the student and school, or something like that?? I'm not sure exactly what that means but I'm curious about it, as I said I never found out the exact policy for our state or district but, I've never been asked for a Dr.'s note whether kids have been out sick or we've returned from a vacation................

Finally (sorry its long, I always want to post on these "should we take kids out of school" threads but never do!) if my kids' teachers stopped teaching after the state tests I would be PISSED!! Doesn't happen in our district, and I don't see how it can with common core. School ended for us this year on June 25th; DS12 was assigned a group project in SS on the 13th that was due on the 20th

To each their own I say. What bothers me most about these threads is how strict so many states are. I honestly had no idea before reading stuff like this on the Dis!

I was generalizing. My point is that it IS about the $$$....because if you home school - you have to take a test every TWO years and get a 33%....but if you send to public you could be vilified by your district (depending on what district you belong to) If it was truly about the kids education- a 33% would not be passing.

Yes, I live in NY- my district is awesome about time off of school. 20 days...that's their policy. However, I know of other districts that are nutso about their policies and yet 33% home school is just fine- a passing grade. It's about butts in the seats.

It just bothers me that you can home school and do whatever the heck you want- your kid can fail- and I mean FAIL TERRIBLY and you are given a free pass- but don't take your kids out of traditional school for 5 days....THEN you are a BAD parent.

 

[asmit4]

Um ....wow! I'm the devil to some folks here, who then think nothing of slinging personal attacks on my character. Nice!

Pot... meet kettle.

US self serving biatchy parents need to stick together. Let's get our entitled brats together and do lunch....heck- let's take the afternoon off too- after all we don't give a crap about school and the rules don't apply to us, right

 

[ariane37]

I was generalizing. My point is that it IS about the $$$....because if you home school - you have to take a test every TWO years and get a 33%....but if you send to public you could be vilified by your district (depending on what district you belong to) If it was truly about the kids education- a 33% would not be passing.

Yes, I live in NY- my district is awesome about time off of school. 20 days...that's their policy. However, I know of other districts that are nutso about their policies and yet 33% home school is just fine- a passing grade. It's about butts in the seats.

It just bothers me that you can home school and do whatever the heck you want- your kid can fail- and I mean FAIL TERRIBLY and you are given a free pass- but don't take your kids out of traditional school for 5 days....THEN you are a BAD parent.

Gotcha I wanted to stick up for my state/district because compared to many mentioned here, mine Rules lol!! It's nice to be able to say "Glad I live in NY" because we sure don't say that when talking real estate, taxes, or cost of living in general

I don't know much about homeschooling either but I can see your point there, too.