Taconic van accident---

[Enchanted_Mama]

Wow. So no compassion for the family that is left behind? Her brother and his wife, who lost all of their children? Her husband who lost his wife and daughter and has a son in the hospital? the drivers parents who lost 4 grandchildren and a daughter? People are making a lot of presumptions about the entire family and noone knows what really happened except that she was drunk and high and drove. She did. Not her husband. Not her brother. She did. Witnesses said she seemed fine when she left the campsite at 9:30 am, the accident was around 1:30, that's plenty of time to get drunk so I don't know why people want to blame the husband or the brother. I think they are suffering enough and I pray for everyone affected by this horrible, horrible tragedy.

you stated how I feel perfectly.

 

[3jsmommy]

I really think that saying she was on a murder/suicide mission is ridiculous.
Why would she have called her brother, why would she have picked up the kids at all?
Obviously this woman was not in her right state of mind, does it really matter if she was an alcoholic or not?
Even if she was, she could have been in the closet about it. I really doubt her family would have sent her to get the kids thinking she would be drinking.
I feel so bad for both families, I understand the other family is mad & wants them to pay, but they lost those beautiful kids & now they have to deal with this whole legal mess. People are getting so angry with the greiving husband & brother (who lost his three daughters for god sakes!)
I think people should take that anger & use it to make sure that no one they know drinks & drives ever, whether in the car with kids or by themselves, it's just as bad IMHO!

 

[DarthKTrava]

A tooth abscess made her drink and get high?

Maybe she had a stroke, because she had gestational diabetes? And how long ago was her last pregnancy?

Unbelieveable.

Sounds like someone's grasping at straws.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm not quite sure what you are talking about? Are you saying this husband/father doesn't deserve answers because his wife was willingly drunk? Are you saying he doesn't deserve sympathy because his wife willingly got drunk killed herself and her children, plus 5 others? If so I'll have to disagree. Until there is any evidence saying that this husband knew she was drinking and driving I'll have as much sympathy for him as I do for any other family members of the other victims that lost their lives.

I didn't say he didn't deserve answers. However--there is no JUSTIFIABLE MEDICAL CONDITION that spontaneously causes a person to down a bottle of vodka in a minivan.

There may be a psychiatric or psychological issue--but an autopsy pretty much won't be able to find that at all especially since she has no other red flags prior to the accident.

Since he seems to be looking for a physical cause-she could have had a heart attack and a stroke while driving three sheets to the wind. However--it is the alcohol that caused it and she deliberately drank it and got behind the wheel of a car.

Law enforcement and victims family's could care less if a medical condition occurred magically at the same time of her drunken stupor. It won't restore her good name nor should it.

I will lose sympathy for him if he does not accept in any way that his wife was intoxicated and ultimately that is what caused this accident. Not a medical malfunction of the body.

Perhaps you don't know someone who has had their lives deleted by a drunk driver. I don't know--but I don't see Madd having much sympathy for a medical condition.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I really think that saying she was on a murder/suicide mission is ridiculous.
Why would she have called her brother, why would she have picked up the kids at all?
Obviously this woman was not in her right state of mind, does it really matter if she was an alcoholic or not?

Some people in the depths of despair make a last call for help. Then they leave their one and only connection that could save them.

She left her cell phone behind.

I personally don't know if she is an alcoholic, but one needn't be an alcoholic to do something like that. IT just takes one time.

Who would have thought that folks in Orlando would turn to shooting ranges to commit suicide.

In this day and time--people are doing very desparate things.

I would be curious to know (but don't feel that I am entitled to know) the history of the family, whether or not they had any type of financial difficulties or any traumas occur iwithin the past year.

Also, I am curious of the liklihood if she had post partum depression and maybe even post partum psychosis.

It is not okay what she did, but I believe we are dealing with a psychiatric issue and not a medical issue or alcoholism.

You may find it ridiculous, but there is scary stuff out there and people are doing it.

Maybe she figured she would end up slammed into a tree. Who knows. And yes, sometimes mommy's take their babies with them.


ETA: I do not blame the family at all. I do not hold them accountable. But if the husband refuse to acknowledge the amount of alcohol and pot in their system, I will not support that denial.

 

[Mom2Nick]

ETA: I do not blame the family at all. I do not hold them accountable. But if the husband refuse to acknowledge the amount of alcohol and pot in their system, I will not support that denial.

I honestly believe this is just one stage of his grief. He hasn't accepted reality yet. His wife smoked pot, drank alcohol then got into a car and killed 7 innocent people.

It's too soon for this father to accept that. He's grasping at straws hoping to find out that this is not how it happened. It's easy for many of us, me included and the other victims families to say they hope his wife rots in hell - but for this family they are facing the loss of many people, including loved ones at the hands of a loved one. It's a lot to process all at once.

Eventually I hope and believe he will realize that the facts are the facts and no amount of hoping and wishing is going to change what his wife did.

 

[luvmy3]

I didn't say he didn't deserve answers. However--there is no JUSTIFIABLE MEDICAL CONDITION that spontaneously causes a person to down a bottle of vodka in a minivan.

There may be a psychiatric or psychological issue--but an autopsy pretty much won't be able to find that at all especially since she has no other red flags prior to the accident.

Since he seems to be looking for a physical cause-she could have had a heart attack and a stroke while driving three sheets to the wind. However--it is the alcohol that caused it and she deliberately drank it and got behind the wheel of a car.

Law enforcement and victims family's could care less if a medical condition occurred magically at the same time of her drunken stupor. It won't restore her good name nor should it.

I will lose sympathy for him if he does not accept in any way that his wife was intoxicated and ultimately that is what caused this accident. Not a medical malfunction of the body.
Perhaps you don't know someone who has had their lives deleted by a drunk driver. I don't know--but I don't see Madd having much sympathy for a medical condition.

I think thats pretty cold hearted. No matter what the cause was the man lost his children and his wife. I could care less if he goes through life not being able to accept why, it doesn't change anything for him, they are still gone forever, they are never going to run up and hug him when he gets home from work, he'll never see them grow up and have their own kids. He'll never grow old with his wife. Why the anger towards him for wanting to know exactly why? Wouldn't you? I know I would especially if the behavior wasn't typical.
I could see not having any sympathy for the mother who choose to get drunk and kill her family, but how could someone not feel sympathy for her husband.
I could never fault him for not believing his wife, the mother of his chlldren would go out and do something like that without an explanation. He's looking for his own answers so he can cope with a tragedy that nobody would even wish on their enemy. Its a shame some people feel he has no reason to look for them.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think thats pretty cold hearted..

Until you know someone who has been murdered by a drunk driver, it would be understandable why you would think it cold hearted. ETA: My brother's partners sister--was unrecongnizable from the injuries she received in the carnage caused by a drunk driver. The families that she killed--their last images will be of their cut and mangled loved ones murdered by this woman. The husband wants us to feel sorry for her--I take exception with that and I have a problem with his attempting to restore her good name. You can't restore the name of a murdering drunk.

I will not feel sorry for someone living in a fantasy world focusing on the perfections of his wife and living a public denial that her actions with the bottle murdered 6 people.

He wants to blame something other than the bottle. Can you name one time in history where someone was drunk, but something other than the alcohol was ruled the cause of the wreck/murder?

She was drunk--he needs to find out WHY...not what other than the alcohol caused the crash. And he needs to be po at his wife for murdering his daughter. Not mad at the public for holding his wife accountable for her wreckless act.

 

[luvmy3]

Until you know someone who has been murdered by a drunk driver, it would be understandable why you would think it cold hearted. ETA: My brother's partners sister--was unrecongnizable from the injuries she received in the carnage caused by a drunk driver. The families that she killed--their last images will be of their cut and mangled loved ones murdered by this woman. The husband wants us to feel sorry for her--I take exception with that and I have a problem with his attempting to restore her good name. You can't restore the name of a murdering drunk.

I will not feel sorry for someone living in a fantasy world focusing on the perfections of his wife and living a public denial that her actions with the bottle murdered 6 people.

He wants to blame something other than the bottle. Can you name one time in history where someone was drunk, but something other than the alcohol was ruled the cause of the wreck/murder?

She was drunk--he needs to find out WHY...not what other than the alcohol caused the crash. And he needs to be po at his wife for murdering his daughter. Not mad at the public for holding his wife accountable for her wreckless act.

Until you experience what this father has (and I hope that nothing like that would ever happen to you) and what that kind of grief can do to you, then you honestly have no idea what he should do. Maybe you would handle it differently but there is no wrong or right in this situation He knew this woman better than anyone and if he wants to defend her right now because it hurts him too much to face the truth about her and what happened then who cares. For goodness sake the accident just happened, do you honestly expect him to be ble to accept anything right away. I don't and anyone else with any compassion wouldn't either.

 

[krcit]

Until you experience what this father has (and I hope that nothing like that would ever happen to you) and what that kind of grief can do to you, then you honestly have no idea what he should do. Maybe you would handle it differently but there is no wrong or right in this situation He knew this woman better than anyone and if he wants to defend her right now because it hurts him too much to face the truth about her and what happened then who cares. For goodness sake the accident just happened, do you honestly expect him to be ble to accept anything right away. I don't and anyone else with any compassion wouldn't either.

 

[Patch'sD]

I would also question the husband's choice of attorney. The Lawyer has appeared and on the Howard Stern Show, Represented Joey Butafuocco (Long Island Lolitta case). He was also the Lawyer in the Kidney Divorce Case. It sounds like the Husband and Attorney are putting together a defensive case.

 

[Disney Doll]

I think the last person I would want to be is the husband of this woman.

He has been left behind to deal with the result of her actions. It is a life-changing event for everyone. He says that she was not drunk when she left the campground. Other non-family witnesses corroborate his story that she did not appear impaired when she left the campground. her brother has stated that eh would not have allowed his children to get into a car with her had he thought she was impaired in any way. These folks all seem like pretty average people, not some kind of crazed groupies living in a commune on the "edge" of societal norms.

A DIS poster has a very pertinent signature...a quote from Anais Nin I believe, which says "We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are".

Those who have lost a loved one to a drunk driver have no sympathy for the driver or her husband in this case. That is your reality, & an understandable one. You are seeing things as YOU are.

I have had many alcoholics in my extended family, but have not lost anyone to a drunk driver, nor, thank God, has anyone from my family ever been a drunk driver who killed someone.

Truly, I think the husband needs a bit of a break. This has just happened. HIS reality regarding his wife is that she did not drink to the best of his knowledge. There are those of you who can say "How could you not know someone is an alcoholic?"...well, alcoholics can be quite good at hiding their drinking, and if it's not something you'd "expect" from that person, then perhaps you're not "looking" for it. And if she truly did not have a drinking problem, then perhaps he wants to find out why she suddenly felt the need to drink and smoke pot. And I don't blame him. What made her snap,
and drink and drug?

Maybe he just needs time to process everything. He is the family of victims too. he didn't hold her down and pur the booze down her throat or stuff the joint into her mouth.

I know when there's a tragedy, people want someone to blame. The person to blame is dead in this case.

 

[mjkacmom]

I truly believe she was a closet alcoholic, and hid it well. Her DH said she didn't drink - there is no way a non-drinker could consume that much alcohol in that time period, and not vomit or pass out. She must have drank on a regular basis, and vodka is an alcoholics drink of choice, because you can't smell it. I have a lot of sympathy for her DH - his wife was a stranger. I don't think this was a suicide - I think she was very drunk, and didn't realize it. I place no blame on the family.

 

[FireDancer]

I can't say I was surprised to hear she was drunk and high. I can't imagine going the wrong way on a freeway. Even if you do get on in the wrong direction by accident the first time you see a car coming at you you pull over and figure it out.

I don't know if the husband knew anything or not and it isn't all that important, it isn't bringing anyone back. I also don't care why she was drunk, I just care that she was. Whether it was alcoholism or depression or just inconsideration to the consequences she was an adult and all of those things are just excuses. In the end you have the choice to drink or not. There are plenty of alcoholics who no longer drink. There are plenty of people with depression that don't drink. None of those things change the fact that she got in a car and killed people.

Unless those excuses magically turn the cars into nerf and keep people from dying they are just excuses for her actions. I feel sorry for everyone else involved but don't care one bit that she is dead. I only wish her stupidity resulted in only her own death instead of all the innocent people she took with her.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Until you experience what this father has (and I hope that nothing like that would ever happen to you) and what that kind of grief can do to you, then you honestly have no idea what he should do. Maybe you would handle it differently but there is no wrong or right in this situation He knew this woman better than anyone and if he wants to defend her right now because it hurts him too much to face the truth about her and what happened then who cares. For goodness sake the accident just happened, do you honestly expect him to be ble to accept anything right away. I don't and anyone else with any compassion wouldn't either.

He's entitled to do what he needs to do.

He is not entitled to my sympathy.

If it turns out to be an autopsy mistake (switch viles of blood), I will eat my words.

But as it stands--how can he and his experts he hired claim that affected vision and slurred speech are not signs of intoxication.

I believe the victims family's have every right to proceed with a civil lawsuit as I have read this morning.

I am having a hard time believing this story myself as her actions do seem illogical--but them saying--that they often traveld with the same bottle of vodka and she never drank a drop as evidence that she didn't drink it this time sounds just as illogical.

I hope that folks can respect my opinion.

Again--I am not blaming the family or saying they are at fault. Heaven knows I had some debilitating issues myself that I kept a secret until I no longer could (I hid PPD and that isn't a good thing to hide as it can get worse as it did for me). They certainly have a tough road ahead of them. But just b/c it is illogical that she did this, doesn't make it impossible.

I'm not condeming him NOW--but I find his reaction just as illogical as his premise that his wife did no wrong.

What Andrea Yates did was illogical. But then when you looked at her history, it became very "logical" for her condition and in her mind.

 

[kacaju]

I think the last person I would want to be is the husband of this woman.

He has been left behind to deal with the result of her actions. It is a life-changing event for everyone. He says that she was not drunk when she left the campground. Other non-family witnesses corroborate his story that she did not appear impaired when she left the campground. her brother has stated that eh would not have allowed his children to get into a car with her had he thought she was impaired in any way. These folks all seem like pretty average people, not some kind of crazed groupies living in a commune on the "edge" of societal norms.

A DIS poster has a very pertinent signature...a quote from Anais Nin I believe, which says "We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are".

Those who have lost a loved one to a drunk driver have no sympathy for the driver or her husband in this case. That is your reality, & an understandable one. You are seeing things as YOU are.

I have had many alcoholics in my extended family, but have not lost anyone to a drunk driver, nor, thank God, has anyone from my family ever been a drunk driver who killed someone.

Truly, I think the husband needs a bit of a break. This has just happened. HIS reality regarding his wife is that she did not drink to the best of his knowledge. There are those of you who can say "How could you not know someone is an alcoholic?"...well, alcoholics can be quite good at hiding their drinking, and if it's not something you'd "expect" from that person, then perhaps you're not "looking" for it. And if she truly did not have a drinking problem, then perhaps he wants to find out why she suddenly felt the need to drink and smoke pot. And I don't blame him. What made her snap,
and drink and drug?

Maybe he just needs time to process everything. He is the family of victims too. he didn't hold her down and pur the booze down her throat or stuff the joint into her mouth.

I know when there's a tragedy, people want someone to blame. The person to blame is dead in this case.

I agree

 

[Conkozan]

I think the last person I would want to be is the husband of this woman.

He has been left behind to deal with the result of her actions. It is a life-changing event for everyone. He says that she was not drunk when she left the campground. Other non-family witnesses corroborate his story that she did not appear impaired when she left the campground. her brother has stated that eh would not have allowed his children to get into a car with her had he thought she was impaired in any way. These folks all seem like pretty average people, not some kind of crazed groupies living in a commune on the "edge" of societal norms.

A DIS poster has a very pertinent signature...a quote from Anais Nin I believe, which says "We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are".

Those who have lost a loved one to a drunk driver have no sympathy for the driver or her husband in this case. That is your reality, & an understandable one. You are seeing things as YOU are.

I have had many alcoholics in my extended family, but have not lost anyone to a drunk driver, nor, thank God, has anyone from my family ever been a drunk driver who killed someone.

Truly, I think the husband needs a bit of a break. This has just happened. HIS reality regarding his wife is that she did not drink to the best of his knowledge. There are those of you who can say "How could you not know someone is an alcoholic?"...well, alcoholics can be quite good at hiding their drinking, and if it's not something you'd "expect" from that person, then perhaps you're not "looking" for it. And if she truly did not have a drinking problem, then perhaps he wants to find out why she suddenly felt the need to drink and smoke pot. And I don't blame him. What made her snap,
and drink and drug?

Maybe he just needs time to process everything. He is the family of victims too. he didn't hold her down and pur the booze down her throat or stuff the joint into her mouth.

I know when there's a tragedy, people want someone to blame. The person to blame is dead in this case.

very well stated.

Like it or not, he too is a victim. Probably the worse victim in all of this.

The woman he thought he knew, loved, bore his children; killed not only his child but others as well.

The agony and confusion has to be outstanding.

He feels he must defend the woman he loved all these years, the one he could not fathom would have done this. But the reality is she did. How do you even begin to process that mentally?

What an awful place to be.

Yes, I have lost a loved one to a drunk driver. And I do feel for him. He was not a part of this, she was.

 

[allison443]

There are still so many questions around this case. Where did she get the vodka (NY liquor store aren't open Sunday mornings). Where did she get the marijuana she smoked that morning? Her husband told the investigators that she did smoke pot on occasion. Where did she get it from? He is an employee of the local Police Department, by the way. (not a police officer, he's a public safety officer). Were these things left over from the weekend camping trip?

I do believe the wife coud have hidden a drinking problem. She worked days, her husband worked nights and left for work before she got home. She could have drank when he wasn't around. However, I would think that the family could look back and now with hindsight see the clues that they honestly missed. This family is saying there were no clues at all.

Such a tragedy.

 

[luvmy3]

I hope that folks can respect my opinion.

I apologize for not doing this, you are entitled to feel the way you do and I shouldn't say its wrong for you.

 

[agnes!]

I haven't read this entire thread and this hasn't been in the news around here like it has been near where the deaths occurred(started to say "where the accident occurred", but it somehow doesn't seem like an "accident" does it), so here are my thoughts...

I might be wrong, but can't the perpetrator's body tissue and hair be tested for long-term alcohol/drug abuse and for underlying physical issues? Can't the pathologist and the lab-work point to physical manifestations of mental illness (maybe differences in brain chemistry or brain malformations), physical reasons for unreasonable behavior (perhaps a brain tumor or even maybe multiple strokes)? Can't they test the tissue and the hair for long-term physical issues like if her body chemistry was WAY out of whack?

Even if something comes out in the toxicology reports and the full autopsy that says there is evidence that the perp was a long-term drug-abuser/alcohol-abuser it still appears to me that she was mentally imbalanced and committed murder/suicide.

Very sad time for all the survivors of those who died and for those who were hurt in this tragic action. Very very sad.
agnes!

PS - I see that the husband says she smoked pot on occasion and that they traveled with a bottle of vodka?...sounds kind of strange to me.