Suze Orman said timeshares are a silly investment

[grlpwrd]

And what, exactly, does her sexual preference have to do with her ability to give financial advice?

I agree with DisneySteve, I want advice from people who are where I want to be, not where I'm standing now. She made her own money. To go from a blue collar job to having assets over $25 million gives her pretty good credentials for giving advice.

Calm down, people. Retract those claws. lol

I am glad she is gay - wonderful for her. I am supportive of gay rights and I have many gay friends and cousins, too.

My shock is about the $25 million she has. $25 million makes a big difference to me when she is giving her advice. Her priorities are not my priorities and she didn't make her money investing like us. She did it differently. What worked for her is an entirely different subject.

Did you even read my second paragraph explaining? Geez, I can see why some folks don't want to post for fear of being pounced on.

 

[bellarella]

Calm down, people. Retract those claws. lol

I am glad she is gay - wonderful for her. I am supportive of gay rights and I have many gay friends and cousins, too.

My shock is about the $25 million she has. $25 million makes a big difference to me when she is giving her advice. Her priorities are not my priorities and she didn't make her money investing like us. She did it differently. What worked for her is an entirely different subject.

Did you even read my second paragraph explaining? Geez, I can see why some folks don't want to post for fear of being pounced on.

Yes, I did read your whole post, which is why I called attention to the fact you brought up she was gay. Because even after reading your whole post I still didn't see how that point was in any way relevant to her giving financial advice -- it was a gratuitous statement.

If your shock was the $25 million, they why mention her sexual orientation? If the path the way she invested wasn't your style, why mention her sexual orientation? If the fact she doesn't have children makes you think she doesn't share your financial goals, why mention her sexual orientation?

Only if you working from stereotypes of what being gay means can you infer anything about someone's financial goals, family status, or personal situation by "throwing out" that someone is gay. That's why I "pounced on" the statement.

As a supporter of gay rights and good friends with many gay people, I would think you would be sensitive to how bringing attention to someone's sexual orientation and saying that because of it they don't have your values and you can't relate to them -- especially on something as unrelated to one's sexuality as money is -- could be seen as out of place to the discussion.

 

[PurpleDog]

My wife and I own a GREAT timeshare right off I Drive in Orlando close to Sea World, the Convention Center [if I'm doing a trade show], and all the shopping and restaurants. It's called Embassy Suites International Drive South.

++ No maintenance fee
++ No sign up or purchase price
++ Nights are usually in the $85-$125 range
++ Great rooms, great pool
++ Free cocktail hour and munchies each afternoon
++ Fantastic free cooked to order hot breakfast each morning
++ Stays of 1-100 nights available

I will never understand timeshares !!

 

[grlpwrd]

Yes, I did read your whole post, which is why I called attention to the fact you brought up she was gay. Because even after reading your whole post I still didn't see how that point was in any way relevant to her giving financial advice -- it was a gratuitous statement.

If your shock was the $25 million, they why mention her sexual orientation? If the path the way she invested wasn't your style, why mention her sexual orientation? If the fact she doesn't have children makes you think she doesn't share your financial goals, why mention her sexual orientation?

Only if you working from stereotypes of what being gay means can you infer anything about someone's financial goals, family status, or personal situation by "throwing out" that someone is gay. That's why I "pounced on" the statement.

As a supporter of gay rights and good friends with many gay people, I would think you would be sensitive to how bringing attention to someone's sexual orientation and saying that because of it they don't have your values and you can't relate to them -- especially on something as unrelated to one's sexuality as money is -- could be seen as out of place to the discussion.

I stated she had a girlfriend because it was news to me and I felt like spreading the good news. I am glad she is in a loving relationship. I am happy for her.

I have a life and I can't spend much time here explaining every little thing. See how short my posts are? I think you are rude and assumed the worst.

Apparently, you have issues with it because you spend long paragraphs reprimanding me and talking about her orientation.

I devoted my post towards the issue... finances....$25 million. This is not the forum for debating sexual orientation. This is a budget board, remember?

 

[bellarella]

I have a life and I can't spend much time here explaining every little thing. See how short my posts are?

Which was precisely why in an economy of words post it was jarring to see reference to her sexuality where it really had no context.

This is not the forum for debating sexual orientation. This is a budget board, remember?

That's actually been my point all along.

I think you are rude and assumed the worst.

I was being serious and not facetious when I said that I would assume you would understand, having gay friends yourself, that lacking any other context, a post that mentions one's sexuality followed by saying that one doesn't share their values and doesn't have much to learn from them, it would likely be read that one thing has to do with the other. You gotta admit the "usual" intention behind "they're gay, <some unrelated mater>, I don't have much in common with them" is not "yea!, I'm happy for them." You asked if I had read your whole post and I said I had and still didn't get it. I don't think I was rude for asking what one had to do with the other (which is what you pounced on me for ) so much as me not psychic.

C'est la vie!

 

[Budshark]

As an "investment" they are silly. You will not get a return per se on it and it does continue to cost you throughout the ownership. As an investment in your family it is, IMHO money well spent if you have that kind of disposable cash. In the long run you will get many vacations for the price of less in very nice accomadations, but that is what you will get.

I agree. Focusing on DVC, its not an 'investment', its a discount plan. Ever buy those $25 discount books or fund raiser cards for restaurants? Bad investment, right? For some people (myself included) we are basiclaly just giving $25 to the fundraiser because we hardly ever dine out to save the money and if we dined out just to save the money, we'd be spending more than we normally do. However, I know others that save $100s because their lifestyle is one where they dine out 5-6 times a week without the book, so having it is pure savings.

Same thing with DVC. Investment? No - although those who have bought and sold generally get their full investment back. Discount vacation plan? Definitely - if you use it like the people who use the coupon book. DVC as a timeshare will absolutely save you money (theres some threads in the DVC forums and I've done my own calculations) over even investing the money at 8% - HOWEVER - if you don't take the vacations or wouldn't go anywhere without DVC its costing you money - see?

So the summary is, if you are going to take the vacation anyways, its a great savings plan that allows you to invest in family. Then take the savings and invest them as Suze (or your favorite advisor) tells you and you get the best of both worlds...

As far as the off topic conversation - who cares and move the personal fighting somewhere else.

Chris

 

[jjj444]

We have a timeshare based out of Hawaii and as much as I love it it is expensive!! The maintenence fees keep going up(it is paid for) and this year we traded in our Maui week for 2 weeks anywhere else. We decided to go to Disney this year and just to trade your week you have to pay. the only good thing is that it forces my stubborn husband to take a vacation every year. We own and can will it to our children! Poor things!

 

[PurpleDog]

I am constantly amazed that timeshares are so popular. Perhaps I am missing something ?

Why would I pay a purchase price or membership fee and then maintenance costs on top of that to be able to stay somewhere like Orlando, Hawaii, or Italy when I can just as easily choose from dozens of hotel rooms in those locations with no commitment whatsoever ?? And - and this is the important part - with NO upfront money whatsoever. Why ??

The price of a hotel room 10 years ago on I Drive or on Disney property was not $19, it was about 15%-25% less than they are now, so please don't say that DVC or timeshare owenership is "protecting" folks from inflation. Are the maintenance fees guaranteed not to go up ?

This is a quote from direct the DVC website: What sets Disney Vacation Club apart from others is the "Disney Difference", gracious hospitality, Disney quality and creativity throughout. Disney Vacation Club also offers unprecedented flexibility in choosing among a wide variety of vacation experiences (subject to availability).

In other words .. DVC is a basic run of the mill timeshare ... only run by Disney so it HAS to be magical. Whoop de Doo !! Pure marketing. And done very very well.

I really really don't get it.

 

[Disnefan]

interesting read for those thinking of getting in on DVC:
http://www.mouseplanet.com/dtp/dvc/3_Debate/cost_evaluation.htm

I'd also state that if you get the timeshare, you are eligible for discounts on annual passes & stuff, but sometimes things like the free dining plan make it better deal to just get a hotel.

 

[Budshark]

I am constantly amazed that timeshares are so popular. Perhaps I am missing something ?

Missing something? I would say no. It sounds like timeshares are not for you.

Why would I pay a purchase price or membership fee and then maintenance costs on top of that to be able to stay somewhere like Orlando, Hawaii, or Italy when I can just as easily choose from dozens of hotel rooms in those locations with no commitment whatsoever ?? And - and this is the important part - with NO upfront money whatsoever. Why ??

Because the membership fee + purchase price are cheaper than a similiar room after a period of time. Timeshares are about usage and time. If you look at it from a 1 or 2 year view - its insane. But depending on usage, DVC starts to pay back after as soon as 5 and as much as 9 years. My maintenance fees for enough points for a 2 bedroom for 1 week at Disney are roughly $1150. That same room, for the same dates runs over $4000. If I'm going to go anyways, on a regular basis, it makes sense.

Financially, since this thread is based on that, it saves me money personally after 7 years - so for 43 years I get about $2500-$3000/yr in savings (asssuming I never sell and maintenance and room rates rise equally). If I do sell, DVC history (15 years) is that I will sell my points for more than I paid - meaning for the years I owned DVC I actually saved $2500-$3000/yr. This is where the disclaimer comes in - nobody can guarantee what you can or will sell for. But the 15 year history has been clear - and Disney manages the resale market.

This is a quote from direct the DVC website: What sets Disney Vacation Club apart from others is the "Disney Difference", gracious hospitality, Disney quality and creativity throughout. Disney Vacation Club also offers unprecedented flexibility in choosing among a wide variety of vacation experiences (subject to availability).

In other words .. DVC is a basic run of the mill timeshare ... only run by Disney so it HAS to be magical. Whoop de Doo !! Pure marketing. And done very very well.

I really really don't get it.

DVC is a timeshare. No one said it isn't. But Six Flags is a theme park. So is Universal. And Sea World. Disney Animal Kingdom Lodge is a hotel. Just like the Marriott down the road. But I'm guessing that you'd admit a Disney theme park and a Disney hotel are different than the others I mentioned. Thats all they are saying. The timeshare is for a Disney hotel/condo - and all its magic versus a run of the mill condo.

My point is, for the right people (people who can plan, take consistent vacations, need more space than a typical hotel room) timeshares and DVC can be great money savers. If you don't fall in that boat, its ok - but that doesn't make them scams or gimmicks. I'll run any calculation of my DVC based Disney vacations against any investment/vacation combo that is comparable you can dream up. After 10 years, I guarantee I will ALWAYS come out on top.

Chris

 

[kydisneyfans]

Most people are paying double in just maintenance fees for their timeshare giving them one week a year than I am paying straight out for similar accomodations.

We stayed at the Fountains for $353.00 a week last year-the maintenance fees alone were over 800, not including the 12K needed to buy the timeshare. How am I saving money by inventing the 12K and 800+ per year when I can get the same thing much cheaper?

 

[disneysteve]

Most people are paying double in just maintenance fees for their timeshare giving them one week a year than I am paying straight out for similar accomodations.

I may have said this earlier in the thead (who remembers) but we need to distinguish between DVC and all other timeshares. They simply are not the same. DVC provides a very specific experience that consistently commands a premium price. There are dozens of other timeshare properties in the Disney area and comparing any of them to DVC is comparing apples to oranges. Everyone needs to understand that for this discussion to make any sense.

kydisneyfans - You are absolutely right in general. In 2004 and 2005, we rented a timeshare unit through Skyauction. We paid $260 for the week each time. That is less than the annual fee charged to owners of the resort we stayed in. Obviously, given those circumstances, buying into that timeshare makes no sense whatsoever (although people continue to do it because they just don't know any better, I assume).

DVC is a whole different animal, though. Although you can rent the DVC units, you can't get the budget rates that you can get elsewhere. For someone who goes regularly and wants to stay in DVC-type accomodations, DVC can make a lot of sense. It makes no sense to me, personally, because we prefer to spend far less money for equal or better accomodations offsite. So we will never buy DVC. We will also never buy any other timeshare because we consistently find better deals on our own. Plus we enjoy trying different places each year and not being locked in to one resort. I think that would get terribly boring after a couple of trips.

 

[PurpleDog]

BudShark / Chris ...

Thanks for taking the time to explain those points to me. I really appreciate it. If I understand things correctly, I guess the bottom line is simple: if you are willing to take at least one yearly vacation at Disney for the the next 7-20 years, then DVC might be for you. Is that accurate ?

I consider myself a Disney lover, fanatic, and admirer, but I guess I'm not in the same league as some of the folks here on the board. My wife and I normally say offsite on I Drive and while I try to get to Orlando at least once a year, I also currently have trips planned to the Smokies, Tampa, the Grand Canyon, and perhaps back to our honeymoon spot - Jamaica. This might be considered blasphemy on this site ? But I'd hate have only Disney to look forward to. I don't want to know where I'm going for vacation in 2011 !!

 

[PurpleDog]

So we will never buy DVC. We will also never buy any other timeshare because we consistently find better deals on our own. Plus we enjoy trying different places each year and not being locked in to one resort. I think that would get terribly boring after a couple of trips.

My thoughts exactly !!!

 

[Budshark]

But I'd hate have only Disney to look forward to. I don't want to know where I'm going for vacation in 2011 !!

Yes - for DVC you really need to stay at Disney resorts to get your money. That said, Disney does have the cruise lines, Disneyland, and more traditional sites at Hilton Head and Vero Beach for some variability.

They say you can swap to non-Disney properties, but there is a fee and the money/points don't save as much - basically its a last resort in my mind.

So I agree - its very restrictive. However, for us we looked at it and decided Disney property had everything we could want in a vacation (golf, water sports, world class resorts, theme parks, different themed hotels, warmth, etc...) so we would find enough to keep us busy even if sometimes we didn't go to the theme parks (I know blasphemus!) And there is always Hilton Head and Vero Beach if we don't want Orlando...

Its a very personal decision. We did it partly because if we didn't 'prepay' and budget it - we'd blow the money on other things. Plus, my wife can stomach putting the $20,000 on the table for a real estate interest, and paying $1000/yr in dues better than she can handle a $3500 hotel bill. To each their own I guess

Chris

 

[PurpleDog]

Thanks again BudShark.

I must add that one of the funnest 2 day mini vacations my wife and I ever took was to St. Looey. We drove from our home [then] in Chicagoland in just about 4 hours. The 1st indication that something fun was gonna happen was on the way up to your room we saw 2 guys with a keg of beer on the elevator. They looked at us - and we them - and we all started laughing. They then blurted out: are y'all here for SooLard ???? We said no - and told em we had NO IDEA what Soolard was. Well let me tell you .. we sure did find out !! We had an amazing time at the parade then walked the rest of the way down to A-Busch and took the tour. Then taxied back to our hotel, had a great steak dinner in the gaslight ? cobblestone? district before gambling on the President.

Sunday included a visit to the beautiful church with all the stained glass that the Pope visited ... [I'm sorry I don't have all the name handy] ... and to then to top it all off, a trip to the famous Ted Drewes famous custard stand. We aslo stopped at the Gateway Speedway [over the bridge in IL ] on the way home.

People in the USA do not realize what a wonderful, vibrant, FUN, and beautiful city St Louis is. And my visit was in February !! St Louis is on our list of "must visit again" for sure.

 

[Chicago526]

So I agree - its very restrictive. However, for us we looked at it and decided Disney property had everything we could want in a vacation (golf, water sports, world class resorts, theme parks, different themed hotels, warmth, etc...) so we would find enough to keep us busy even if sometimes we didn't go to the theme parks (I know blasphemus!) And there is always Hilton Head and Vero Beach if we don't want Orlando...

Chris

You know, I think you may have touched on something a lot of people forget about Disney. WDW is a resort in and of itself, even without the parks! You could easily spend a week at WDW, not go to any park for a single minute, and still have a great vacation!

My dream vacation at WDW is to spend two to three weeks in a Ft. Wilderness cabin, and only go to the parks maybe 5 or 6 times the whole stay. The rest of the time we'd do all the other things there are to do at WDW. There is so much to do out of the parks that when your focus is on the parks, you really miss out on the other activites.

When you add in all the non-theme park options, including Vero Beach and the cruise line, you can really take a larger varity of vacations with DVC than you'd think. Yes, the common thread is Disney, but it doesn't have to be the exact same trip every year for 20+ years if you don't want it to be.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I think she is correct. Timeshares are not "investments". They are a way to prepay your vacation but not a way to make money.