Survivor 41

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Xander was a fun kid to have on the show, cute as a button, gave great 1:1 with the camera, but it appears he wasn't a great strategist and his relationships were not as deep with people as others had and that they didn't really trust him so were guarded with how much they invested with him.

I really don't agree with most of those types of comments because I think they come from a different place than just looking at the game of Survivor but I do think there's some weight that can be thrown towards not giving Xander a chance. He def. worked hard, he did play strategy and well, he did win challenges but other things may have interfered. I think he was a good strategist but that may have not mattered.

If you're so for diversity and only see it as the color of your skin or gender as defined by male or female you may not even give someone a chance who doesn't fit that. I do think it's an interesting discussion to be had whether this particular season was so focused on the diversity narrative by the players in terms of color of their skin or gender (male/female) that they didn't allow all the players a chance. You had multiple people from the Community on the season, why was the discussion not around "we need a person from the Community to win"? It was very narrowly defined as Black or female. Isn't that kinda the same thing as being tired of seeing white males win? That I think is a good discussion that you're just switching two narrow categories for another. And still when you consider Liana, Shan, Deshawn and Danny especially they forget the other players who have won who are not white.

The problem I think with people is when they use the term woke or wokeness as it ends up just being noise in the actual discussion. A bit hard to have a practical conversation with people when they deflect with "this woke culture". It should be able to be discussed without that detracting from it but normally isn't.

I must also say that I wouldn't vote for someone just because they fit into a category. I think Erika throughout did play quite well, she had the split vote (as scary as that was of a play to do) and did a lot of other things but I saw her as a good player and like I said if anyone else was going to win other than Xander I was glad it was her. But people are right that people vote for all sorts of reasons.

 

[declansdad]

I think this whole "woke" thing is overblown. I think Erica was deserving and I think Xander was as well. He was part of the story from the beginning while Erica wasn't really shown until her trip to Exile. I believe this came down to the editing that we were shown or the jury was simply bitter. They really played up a couple of the jury members not liking Xander but there were no real reasons shown for that to be true.

It's time to stop making everything about "woke" and "cancel culture". Not everything done is about those things.

 

[leeniewdw]

I really don't agree with most of those types of comments because I think they come from a different place than just looking at the game of Survivor but I do think there's some weight that can be thrown towards not giving Xander a chance. He def. worked hard, he did play strategy and well, he did win challenges but other things may have interfered. I think he was a good strategist but that may have not mattered.

And Ericka won 2 individual challenges, same as Xander.

If you're so for diversity and only see it as the color of your skin or gender as defined by male or female you may not even give someone a chance who doesn't fit that. I do think it's an interesting discussion to be had whether this particular season was so focused on the diversity narrative by the players in terms of color of their skin or gender (male/female) that they didn't allow all the players a chance. You had multiple people from the Community on the season, why was the discussion not around "we need a person from the Community to win"? It was very narrowly defined as Black or female. Isn't that kinda the same thing as being tired of seeing white males win? That I think is a good discussion that you're just switching two narrow categories for another. And still when you consider Liana, Shan, Deshawn and Danny especially they forget the other players who have won who are not white.

The problem I think with people is when they use the term woke or wokeness as it ends up just being noise in the actual discussion. A bit hard to have a practical conversation with people when they deflect with "this woke culture". It should be able to be discussed without that detracting from it but normally isn't.

I must also say that I wouldn't vote for someone just because they fit into a category. I think Erika throughout did play quite well, she had the split vote (as scary as that was of a play to do) and did a lot of other things but I saw her as a good player and like I said if anyone else was going to win other than Xander I was glad it was her. But people are right that people vote for all sorts of reasons.

Agree with all the above. I think survivor has always managed to have very unlikely people "in real life" become great friends via the show. Even those that share ethnicity. I remember Stephen and JT were a very unlikely duo, despite being white males, whose friendship (at least for a time) transcended the show. Natalie and Jeremy. That's part of the fun watching the show imo. Even Tiff on this show talked about how she has limited exposure to LGBTQ and was willing to ask questions of Evvie while she had the opportunity (ponderosa video).

(I will say I think the Shan/Liana/Deshawn/Danny alliance was also about having a minority alliance 'run the game', not only just have a black person win. I believe that would have been a first. Given the timing of this filming, it doesn't bother me that they included that as part of their motivation. But it didn't make a difference in the end, so who knows how they feel about that now.)

 

[leeniewdw]

I think Erica was deserving and I think Xander was as well. He was part of the story from the beginning while Erica wasn't really shown until her trip to Exile. I believe this came down to the editing that we were shown or the jury was simply bitter.

Shortened season and Ericka was on a tribe that never went to Tribal until the merge. Most of what they showed on the blue tribe was about them maybe throwing a challenge and since that didn't involve her, not much shown until the merge.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And Ericka won 2 individual challenges, same as Xander.

I wasn't trying to compare the two. I was saying Xander won challenges, it's not like he was a dud player who struggled in challenges the whole time, didn't seek out idols or advantages, didn't try to convince others to do his plan, etc in response to your comments about his gameplay.

Heather for instance was more like a dud. She didn't give up in challenges but she didn't play well at all in those challenges, she kinda sat back and while she tried to connect with Deshawn about his life experiences for the most part she just kinda floated and she was kept around for that expressed purpose. So I would say she wasn't a good strategist and was just not a best player so yeah if the players didn't give Heather a chance it should have been because of this, but there may be something to not giving Xander a chance despite the things he actively did because of some other influence. I do think like what he spoke about in the Entertainment Weekly article about how he didn't use his idol to save anyone else was a big thing. There have been players who have done that in the past too and it's a gamble whether the jury sees that as a grudge or not.

(I will say I think the Shan/Liana/Deshawn/Danny alliance was also about having a minority alliance 'run the game',

They had a Black only alliance for the most part because there were other minorities on the cast. They weren't shy about that.

Personally the timing doesn't really factor into it for me as in I'm okay with it just because of when it was filmed. It's not the first time this has come up in Survivor. Other seasons there have been players who are Black who have said this stuff and formed alliances together just because of it but this was with 4 players who had a very strong desire for it, in part probably because they were just fed up with it, a valid feeling to have. In terms of success they probably had the strongest Black alliance. This season isn't the first time the "we don't want a white male to win" has come up but I do think it's one where I sat back watching how it was shown and thought it was unsavory how it was spoken about because of the disregard for other players.

I don't know what the end result would have been if Erika was not in the end though.

 

[leeniewdw]

They had a Black only alliance for the most part because there were other minorities on the cast. They weren't shy about that.

I used the word "minority" because I was talking about an alliance comprised of the same minority had not 'run the game' before. Yes, their minority alliance was based on them being black.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I used the word "minority" because I was talking about an alliance comprised of the same minority had not 'run the game' before. Yes, their minority alliance was based on them being black.

IMO, I don't think it should be a problem to just say that is was a Black alliance, it was what they were all about. They weren't about minorities in general. They formed it out of being Black which is fine it's how they wanted to play it. Splitting hairs I know and I do get what you're saying I was just saying by it being said a minority alliance it disregards the other players who were also that (be it their ethnicity or sexual identity). For Shan, Deshawn, Liana and Danny it was about being Black although certainly Shan's personality got in the way of her bonding with Danny and Deshawn. Don't worry I get what you're talking about

 

[leeniewdw]

I don't have a problem saying it was based on them being black. But I was just saying the "first" they were trying to pull off would have been the first of any kind of minority to run the game. I was just referring to the aspect of being first, when obviously a variety of people/ethnicities have won. I wasn't trying to replace their words, however clumsy my writing it that way was.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

Holy projection batman.

I also listened to Deshawn's exit interview and he said he knew Danny would vote for him because they were day 1 partners and he would have been shocked/hurt if he didn't. I can't believe anyone would take that vote and say that Danny was so "woke" he wouldn't even have Xander take 2nd place. Holy crap.

I don't get how people can literally read and hear the people on the show and their perceptions of Xander and think it's a complete lie to cover up their "wokeness'. Xander was a fun kid to have on the show, cute as a button, gave great 1:1 with the camera, but it appears he wasn't a great strategist and his relationships were not as deep with people as others had and that they didn't really trust him so were guarded with how much they invested with him.

I agree with all of this! Its so crazy to read some of the comments here! Its insane that folks think that the jury threw one vote to Deshawn so Xander would come in last place!!!

I havent listened to any exit interviews or any coverage since the show ended Wed night. I didnt know who voted for Deshawn, but common sense told me that Danny voted for Deshawn because they had been close friends throughout the show. He voted for Deshawn, because thats who he wanted to win, his vote for Deshawn had nothing to do with Xander!! UGH!!

Thanks leenie for being a voice of reason on this thread!!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I didnt know who voted for Deshawn, but common sense told me that Danny voted for Deshawn because they had been close friends throughout the show. He voted for Deshawn, because thats who he wanted to win, his vote for Deshawn had nothing to do with Xander

I agree it didn't have something to do with Xander I'm not even sure how that hypothesis works but Danny spoke very highly of Erika and her game play. He really did seem to admire her something that at least with the edits I was surprised at.

I don't know that he voted for him because he wanted Deshawn to win because I don't think he had a shot at winning and I think Danny knew that. I mean yes I'm sure he wanted him to win as a friend but in terms of the game of Survivor he likely voted just because they were thick as thieves and if they hadn't been as close I don't think he would have.

 

[starvenger]

It's sort of like how we knew Jeremy would vote for Nat last season. Didn't matter if he thought Tony would win or not - he was gonna vote for his "Twinnie" regardless.

 

[leeniewdw]

I think sometimes viewers forget (myself included) that our own likes/dislikes are just random feelings that we develop watching a blissfully fun show that distracts us from everything else. This thread (and me) switch their feelings on players (Ricard an example) inside the same season.

I pretty much hated Russell Hantz all together, but he made good TV and I for sure think he got screwed by a bitter jury on his (2nd?) season. And that's saying something because I shocked myself with being able to finally say "he's a really good player" after being thrilled he didn't win his first season. I was happy he lost (based on my dislike) but recognized he probably should have won. Perhaps landing a majority on the jury that's not "bitter" is every bit as much about strategy as anything else.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

*sigh* Video is not available outside the U.S.!

Can you give a recap? What did Shan do?

It was just Ricard talking about Shan giving him the cold shoulder at the place where those voted out stay once he got voted out.
Also on the video was Ricard putting himself on the Survivor Mt. Rushmore saying he really should have won and how he was the best player.

 

[leeniewdw]

I've posted WAY too much in this thread, but one more thing lol. I read Heather's exit interview with Dalton Ross/ew. One thing she said that bugged me about the show editing. She said that they spliced a 1:1 interview where she said "I'm proud of myself" after the challenge where she had struggled terribly. She said the "proud" comments were after a different challenge where she DID do well. She said her comments after the poor performance were acknowledging it and knowing she had to do better. That's just crappy on CBS' part.

She also said her absence on being in the show for the first few episodes led her to call a producer to ask if she'd done something wrong or broken some unwritten rule. They said no but that for the limited time they spent on the tribe that wasn't going to tribal, they had to focus on the people who were finding the advantages and she wasn't one of them. That makes sense.

 

[declansdad]

I've posted WAY too much in this thread, but one more thing lol. I read Heather's exit interview with Dalton Ross/ew. One thing she said that bugged me about the show editing. She said that they spliced a 1:1 interview where she said "I'm proud of myself" after the challenge where she had struggled terribly. She said the "proud" comments were after a different challenge where she DID do well. She said her comments after the poor performance were acknowledging it and knowing she had to do better. That's just crappy on CBS' part.

She also said her absence on being in the show for the first few episodes led her to call a producer to ask if she'd done something wrong or broken some unwritten rule. They said no but that for the limited time they spent on the tribe that wasn't going to tribal, they had to focus on the people who were finding the advantages and she wasn't one of them. That makes sense.

It also possible that she doesn't remember everything she said in those interviews.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It was just Ricard talking about Shan giving him the cold shoulder at the place where those voted out stay once he got voted out.
Also on the video was Ricard putting himself on the Survivor Mt. Rushmore saying he really should have won and how he was the best player.

Ricard picked up steam but then I think he lost it. So Ricard needs to slow his roll on tooting his own horn. I get his confusion on Shan because of how they played together but I think Shan in the end, as it appears to be, saw Ricard as an opportunistic alliance, not one of mutual respect like I had originally thought and what he seems to have thought. Ironically both think too highly of themselves but I do think Ricard is more upfront whereas Shan puts a front out.

 

[leeniewdw]

It also possible that she doesn't remember everything she said in those interviews.

Sure, I suppose so. But I would think that her terrible performance in that one challenge would be memorable. Perhaps she said "I'm proud of myself" about something ELSE in that same 1:1 and they chose that. She just seemed really disappointed that it looked like she didn't see any issue with the challenge performance.

I realize they have to edit for the audience and they want some mystery as to how things go down at tribal council, so I'm not bothered by that. Danny said he'd told Liana they were going to vote for Shan (not shown) and Heather said that Deshawn told her all about what Ericka had said about not taking Heather to the finals before the tribal council. So she already knew. So the truth bomb was for maximum effect in front of the jury I guess. Heather said it just made her feel terrible because both of them were her friends. Anyway -- that stuff doesn't bother me, but I felt bad for her about the post challenge commentary they used.

 

[lovin'fl]

And Ericka won 2 individual challenges, same as Xander.




Agree with all the above. I think survivor has always managed to have very unlikely people "in real life" become great friends via the show. Even those that share ethnicity. I remember Stephen and JT were a very unlikely duo, despite being white males, whose friendship (at least for a time) transcended the show. Natalie and Jeremy. That's part of the fun watching the show imo. Even Tiff on this show talked about how she has limited exposure to LGBTQ and was willing to ask questions of Evvie while she had the opportunity (ponderosa video).

(I will say I think the Shan/Liana/Deshawn/Danny alliance was also about having a minority alliance 'run the game', not only just have a black person win. I believe that would have been a first. Given the timing of this filming, it doesn't bother me that they included that as part of their motivation. But it didn't make a difference in the end, so who knows how they feel about that now.)

She won 1 with an advantage

 

[leeniewdw]

So now advantages discount a win? She specifically talked about how she decided to look at the trees where she found the advantage due to the leaves on it. She used her smarts, rather than running around the beach. IIRC, Xander figured out the clue first but still didn't figure it out where to look.

I appreciate how they try to balance things to some extent. In some cases they adjust the 'contraptions' to fit people's height and size, but on this challenge, I don't think any lane was any different than the others, so the distance between the ground and retrieving the ropes was the same no matter how tall you were. The distance between each rope step was the same regardless of how tall you were, etc. Was that advantage disproportionate to what was on the line? Maybe, but that's not any different than most of those late game advantages.

Xander had as much of a chance to find the advantage as anyone else.

It's literally impossible to have a level playing field. Heck, Deshawn was still in the game because of a game of chance.

 

[starvenger]

I pretty much hated Russell Hantz all together, but he made good TV and I for sure think he got screwed by a bitter jury on his (2nd?) season. And that's saying something because I shocked myself with being able to finally say "he's a really good player" after being thrilled he didn't win his first season. I was happy he lost (based on my dislike) but recognized he probably should have won. Perhaps landing a majority on the jury that's not "bitter" is every bit as much about strategy as anything else.

He should've won based on gameplay. But Hantz played during a time where Jury management was a more important factor in winning. And over two seasons he proved to be very bad at reading the jury and swaying them with his answers. not that he would've beaten Sandra and Parvati, but still.