Surprising Parent Behavior at V&A's

[InstImpres]

Also, some small toys go a long way. I am always surprised at how many people bring their young children to restaurants, doctors office, the "other"kids after school activity, etc... with out bring the child anything to do!

Most kids are easily kept busy, if given some tools!

I agree totally. That is why even though DD is passed the age, I still carry dollar store toys (the 3-4 to pack kind) in my backpack when at WDW. I am happy to give up a toy to the child screaming or kicking me in line not to have them unhappy behind me. I look at this way, it isn't the child's fault the parent is clueless.

 

[Whosemom]

Chesire Figment, I would find that quite condensending, akin to going up to a person you don't know who has a disability and saying "Wow, you are getting along pretty well there, considering your disability and all." I'm not saying that raising kids and dealing with a disability are equivelent, just that I would consider good ettiquite to be similar.

I tried for a couple hours to figure out how to say this that wouldn't sound argumentative, because I really don't mean it that way, just something to think about.

 

[MNdisneymom]

Sorry, Whosemom, but I personally have to disagree with you. I have an almost 4 year old DS who is a pretty good kid...but it's a process. We were out for dinner on my mom's b-day and we sat for over 2 hours, and he was extraordinarily well-behaved (even for him)--and 3 different people came over as they were leaving to say hello and tell him how good he was being. I made sure he knew why they were talking to him...For little kids (at least mine) learning good manners is just that (learning) and having reinforcement from somebody who isn't a family member is an excellent stimulus.

That said, I have a real..."thing" about kids with bad manners in public, which is why I am working so hard to make sure mine does have them. (And which is why my hair may go completely gray before I'm 40, )

 

[gigi1313]

Now these are responsible parents. I commend them and the rest of the party for leaving and not caving into the demands of a child. It's also a great lesson for the child. If you act up we ARE leaving.

while i agree that if you make a threat you have to carry thru with it (and we've left many a gathering or restaurant) but in the case of 7 adults out to dinner, i need to ask... who are you punishing? the kid "got his/her way" by not having to sit thru an insufferably long meal... or the adults who had their hearts (and wallets as you have to leave a deposit w/your ressie i do believe) set on V&As and left? first of all, in my opinion, one or both of the parents would leave w/the child allowing the remainder of the party to enjoy a peaceful adult meal... of course, if it is only mom/dad/junior then the entire party would leave (unless mom or dad opts to dine alone!)

secondly... i am still not convinced that the scenario went down exactly as the OP saw it, and the party may not have had a ressie and was turned away by V&As, not chose to leave due to an unruly child...

also, very curious... this thread was started on the Restaurant board, which was seemingly an appropriate place for it... why was it moved to the Adult/Solo Traveler board?

 

[kennancat]

Chesire Figment, I would find that quite condensending, akin to going up to a person you don't know who has a disability and saying "Wow, you are getting along pretty well there, considering your disability and all." I'm not saying that raising kids and dealing with a disability are equivelent, just that I would consider good ettiquite to be similar.

Frankly, you're the first parent I've ever seen who found this at all offensive. Most parents I've seen on these boards brag about people coming up to them and telling them how well behaved their children are, because it's not really a compliment to the kids, it's to the parents - you're thanking them for doing a quality job in raising the next generation. I once complimented a mom who had four small children with her at the Electric Umbrella. Given the way she beamed when I told her how I was really impressed with her children and their good behavior, I don't think she found me condescending. You're certainly entitled to your point of view, but I think you are in the minority.

 

[InstImpres]

Not to hijack but did everyone catch this extreme...
Jan. 23, 2007 — Every parent has dealt with a child having a tantrum and causing embarrassment at the worst times — in a grocery store, in a restaurant, and at weddings.

For a Massachusetts mom and dad, however, their toddler's tantrum cost them their flight home.


Related: Should Crying Kids Be Kicked Off Planes?



On Jan. 14, 3-year-old Elly Kulesza and her parents, Julie and Gerald, were kicked off an AirTran Airways flight from Florida to their Worcester, Mass., home because Elly would not stop crying.

Elly, who had been a model passenger on the flight to Florida four days earlier, began to cry uncontrollably once she got on the plane, throwing a temper tantrum on the floor.

AirTran employees demanded that the Kuleszas calm down their child. When Elly didn't stop crying, the crew banned the Kuleszas from flying for 24 hours. Later, AirTran offered an apology to the family along with a refund on their tickets.

"As we have an obligation to the 112 other passengers onboard the flight to operate the flight on time," AirTran said in a statement, "we had to make an operational decision to ask the Kulesza party to deplane so the flight could depart."


Passengers Sympathetic, Unlike Crew, Parents Say

On "Good Morning America," the Kuleszas insisted that their toddler wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary.

"I don't know what happened. No one can tell when something like this is going to happen. She had a great morning, but then she got on the plane and she started to cry," Julie Kulesza said.

"She's like the typical 3-year-old. She has her moments, but overall she's a very, very good child."

The Kuleszas said that unlike the AirTran crew, the passengers on the flight were sympathetic to their situation.

"I jokingly turned around and asked the three gentlemen behind me, 'Aren't you glad you got these seats?" Julie said. "Another passenger offered up a lollipop to try and calm her down."

Despite AirTran's apology and offer of a complimentary flight, the Kuleszas don't plan to fly with the airline anytime soon.

"We'll pass on that," Gerald Kulesza said. "After that, I told them I'd never fly with them again."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/AmericanFamily/story?id=2815486&page=1

 

[aes74]

Chesire Figment, I would find that quite condensending, akin to going up to a person you don't know who has a disability and saying "Wow, you are getting along pretty well there, considering your disability and all." I'm not saying that raising kids and dealing with a disability are equivelent, just that I would consider good ettiquite to be similar.

I tried for a couple hours to figure out how to say this that wouldn't sound argumentative, because I really don't mean it that way, just something to think about.

I disagree. I work hard to make sure my children are well-behaved and well-mannered. I am grateful if someone takes the time to mention it to them, and also to myself.

I would also add, that if my husband and I went to V & As, paid that sort of bill, took the time to make arrangements to pay for a babysitter for my own children in order to insure a lovely night out, I would not be pleased to have some other parents' unruly children hijack our entire meal. It's just selfish to me.

I understand my children are young, and I do not expect them to be perfect, but I have also always taught them that they do not have the right to basically be little brats, destroying the day for others around them. If it is a case of a child simply being tired, etc., then it's the parents' responsibility to handle that.

 

[hmp2z]

secondly... i am still not convinced that the scenario went down exactly as the OP saw it, and the party may not have had a ressie and was turned away by V&As, not chose to leave due to an unruly child...

They were actually inside the restaurant (when I said "entered," I meant entered the dining room, not the lobby). They were walked to a table, and some of them sat down. We were dining inside the restaurant (we were already seated), which is why we first became alarmed b/c we noticed the boy was fussy. Most of the adults left with the boy, while 2 or 3 stayed behind. They waited for about 20 minutes, then left, too.

also, very curious... this thread was started on the Restaurant board, which was seemingly an appropriate place for it... why was it moved to the Adult/Solo Traveler board?

I actually started this thread here on the Adult/Solo board, not the restaurant board. You never know when you post on the general board. Sometimes rabid parents take offense at the oddest things.

Cheers!
Heather W

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I would like to thank those who supported me in their comments to Whosemom. Since I am a moderator, although in a different forum, I did not feel it would have been proper to try to defend myself publicly.

 

[Whosemom]

I guess its a matter of not what you say, but how you say it. I'm sure all parents have had the experience of someone complimenting their child or children on their nice manners and good behavior. I know we've had that many times, and it was a boost to the children.

It just seems different to me to direct your comments to the parents. In particular, it was the "thanking them for allowing us to have a peaceful meal" that put me off. I just heard "because when we saw you, we were sure our evening was ruined" hanging off the end of it.

 

[northriver]

First off, I would never take my children to V & A's! But, I wanted to throw out a couple comments because embarassingly, we eat out more than we eat in. I'm divorced with two kids and eat with my parents most nights, so my kids are outnumbered. They know what to expect and we know what to expect from them - we always eat early so they are not tired and hungry. That is really the key to having well behaved children imo - always making sure they have enough food and sleep. Good manners cannot overcome hunger and fatique.

At Disney, you need to cut families some slack. The kids are away from home, off schedule, and usually both tired and hungry! Everyone has to eat, and most families do not know to plan their trips like DIS'ers, so families face long waits for meals compounding the problem. Most kids are not accustomed to eating out, either. I LOVE the suggestion from a PP to have small toys to give to kids. Attention from a stranger really makes kids more accountable for their behavior - they know other people are watching them, and watching out for them kwim? I also think praising children for their good behavior is a nice gesture. It takes a village.

 

[Boston5602]

I think Disney Kids clubs should be for potty trained children 3 & up. Then by next trip I could try V & As

Seriously though- you have to pay for children at 3- why can't a potty trained 3 year old be allowed at the kids clubs? Granted my 2 1/2 year old is not potty trained yet- but by next year... Too bad!

Florida state law. The WDW kids clubs are not licensed to take care of kids who are under age 4.

We did not know it was because of Florida State law , we too thought it was for potty trained issues. The first time I put my niece into a childs program she was potty trained and it was a big 3 year old . SHe will turn 12 a week after coming home this year and is a little sad it will be her last time in the kids program she loved it EVERY time.

 

[kennancat]

Most kids are not accustomed to eating out, either.

I don't know about this statement. I could swear I remember reading/hearing something about more meals being eaten outside the home than in it these days, but that may be of the McDonald's type variety.

 

[Every_other_year]

I have to agree with whosemom.

I have three kids who I have worked hard to make sure they are well-behaved. We have always taken them out to dinner and are responsible enough to take them outside if someone gets too loud or unruly.

When someone compliments the parents on how their children are behaving it feels condesending to me as well. It is as if they are saying "we noticed you walk in and we thought for sure we were in for an unpleasent experience with you and your children in the same area as we are so thanks for not making this a bad experience". It makes me feel like I was watched and observed and judged while I was out enjoying a meal with my family. Just because I am sitting there with my kids and they are behaving (which is what I expect them to do) does not mean I want people walking up to my table and telling me what a great job I am doing. If my kids were not there you would not come up to my table, just like I would not approach your table and tell you that you were doing a good job. KWIM?

I too cannot stand when I arrange for a sitter and get the chance to go out with my DH and there are someone else's kids misbehaving.

Just because I feel like this (and maybe whosemom) I know that everyone might not feel like this. I just wanted to agree with whosemom and show that she was not totally in left field with her feelings.

 

[ZephyrHawk]

As a child I was used to eating out at fine restaurants and was very well behaved (thus say my parents). However, when my parents booked reservations at V&A's, it was strongly suggested to them that they not bring me along. They agreed that it was probably not an experience I would enjoy due to the length of the meal and the exotic nature of the food (I was, and am, picky). I stayed in the room, watched cartoons and was perfectly happy. It was the right choice. Children, in general, do not belong in a place like V&A's and would not appreciate it.

That being said, I think it was silly for all the people in the party described to leave. The mother or father should have left to care for the child and allowed those remaining to enjoy their dinner. Sure, it wouldn't be exactly fair to the parent who had to leave, but that's being a parent. Why all the adults had to miss their nice evening out (and the money they'd likely already put into it) because of the tantrum of one toddler is beyond me.

 

[D&R love Disney]

My husband complimented a family in Shula's during our last trip. We don't normally see many families eat there and they had 4 kids under 10. Very well behaved and they were still there when we left at 9:00 pm. They gave us a big smile and thanks. I wouldn't take my 2 younger stepkids there and they are 10 and 13 (not that they wouldn't behave but they'd hate the long dinner).

I'm really surprised the entire party left V & A's.

 

[TDC Nala]

First off, I would never take my children to V & A's! But, I wanted to throw out a couple comments because embarassingly, we eat out more than we eat in. I'm divorced with two kids and eat with my parents most nights, so my kids are outnumbered. They know what to expect and we know what to expect from them - we always eat early so they are not tired and hungry. That is really the key to having well behaved children imo - always making sure they have enough food and sleep. Good manners cannot overcome hunger and fatique.

At Disney, you need to cut families some slack. The kids are away from home, off schedule, and usually both tired and hungry! Everyone has to eat, and most families do not know to plan their trips like DIS'ers, so families face long waits for meals compounding the problem. Most kids are not accustomed to eating out, either. I LOVE the suggestion from a PP to have small toys to give to kids. Attention from a stranger really makes kids more accountable for their behavior - they know other people are watching them, and watching out for them kwim? I also think praising children for their good behavior is a nice gesture. It takes a village.

Cut them some slack at Disney, sure, but this thread is about Victoria & Alberts. I still believe little children don't belong in Victoria & Alberts. They don't have food suitable for them, or an atmosphere that is comfortable for children. If I paid a lot to go sit in the main dining room and eat, I don't think I'd have a problem with the presence of a kid unless the kid started to act up, but it's beyond me why, with so much else to choose from at WDW, the parents would bring a small child there in the first place.

 

[QueueCT]

I think this is all about expectations. When I go to Bennigan's or Chili's or whatever I expect to have young children seated near me. And a good portion of them will be struggling to behave themselves . . . and losing! And I'm perfectly okay with this. Children need to experience dining out and that's a good environment for them to learn.

On the other hand, when I go to V&A, I expect a completely different experience. Some children can handle sitting quietly for 2-3 hours (although younger than 10 might be difficult) and other's can't. Some children's palates are more developed and adventurous than others. Of course, the parents should already know whether their kids can handle it or not. Plus, sometimes the kids are having an off night and what would normally be tolerable for them isn't. Bottom line is that it's not a black and white decision regarding what age is appropriate for V&A.

On a side note, I'd say that my worst meal experience at Disney was at Cali Grill. The food was fine, but it was overrun with children coloring on the placemats, excited about Wishes, etc. I had expected something a little more sedate . . . if I had known what it would be like we probably still would have gone but had a better attitude about the whole thing.

 

[waltskids]

I was surprised when I came across this thread. We will be dining at V & A's for the first time in May and will be eating in the dining room. I had just assumed that children didn't go to this restaurant. Our reservations aren't until 9:30pm so I wouldn't expect children to be there at that time of evening, but you never know. Has anyone had any experiences with children eating in the main dining room (good or bad)? I really want to have an enjoyable evening.

 

[julm26]

I don't mean to be out of line here, but even the best behaved child has a bad day. I wouldn't think of taking my child to V&A's. Before I had my child I was always depressed to see a child near me misbehaving when I was trying to eat. BUT now that I have a 2yo who is usually very well behaved but sometimes a monster when tired, sick etc. I sympathize with the parent who sometimes is at their wits end. It doesn't forgive bad behavior on the parents part but what are we supposed to do - not eat a grown-up meal to our kids are 18. Just a thought....