Su-Th vs Fr-Sa Points?

[TroyWDW]

I haven't made as many reservations as some of the DVC veterans, but my limited experience leads me to question the current point system. I'm curious to see how other folks view the point values.

A general statement is that Sundays to Thursdays are booked out of proportion to Friday and Saturdays. I've talked to the MS folks and they will make statements like: "I have any Friday/Saturday night available that month".

Of course, looking at the points charts, one can see that Fridays & Saturdays cost roughly double for Studios, 1BR, and 2BR. I'm guessing that this is a primary cause for the disproportionate usage.

I can see why DVC placed a higher point cost on Fr-Sa, to prevent the weekends from being overbooked, thus leaving Su-Th under-utilized. But, it appears to me that just the opposite is occurring (I'm not certain to what extent).

A couple of ideas (feel free to offer alternatives):
1) Rebalance the points, making Fr-Sa less and Su-Th higher than their current values.

2) Make one or two of the midweek days (Mo, Tu, We) higher in value similar to Fr-Sa, so as to discourage the Su-Th reservations (of course, all of the values would need to be changed to maintain the same total point value).

Troy

 

[RobDoc]

Higher weekend point costs are quite common in point-based timeshares everywhere. Keep in mind that to change any points- some days would have to be increased and others decreased.

Just because weekends may be available today for a reservation sometime in the future, does NOT mean that those nights will be unused when the date comes. Many will be reserved thru CRO when inside of the 60 day breakage period. Some are unused because members have used points on the cruise or at another WDW resort and CRO will eventually rent those nights. At OKW and BWV- theoretically- the resorts will be reserved 365 nights per year. Any vacancies means either that a member may have lost some points (holding account or no-shows) or that DVC was unable to rent those rooms (and thus contribute the rental fee to the dues structure).

When this issue was raised on a survey awhile back, the membership made it clear that the preference was for the current system. Unless reservation habits change drastically in the future, I don't expect any change to the program. IMHO, the "problem" exists in our minds more than in reality.

 

[Dean]

I don't know of any system where the proportion for certain nights is as out of balance as those of DVC. While Doc is right, there was fairly strong support for not changing the current system, it was not overwhelming (if I recall the balance correctly). Also, DVC has a fiduciary responsiblity that should take over if the usage is too lop sided on a consistent basis. I still think you'll see a rebalance but I predicted it would happen a year ago so what do I know, LOL.

Obviously there needs to be a differential, what that needs to be is likely a moving target. It's a fun thing to talk about but one that can get those that would be adversely affected very upset.

 

[ILuvDVC]

I usually book a weeks stay. So, if the daily points were evened out, it really wouldn't affect me either way, because I stay on Saturdays and Sundays.

But, if you think about, at least lately, I've found that weekend points are a great place to use those Non-home resort DVC points. I will try and book the cheap nights with the points I have at that resort, and book the weekend points in the 7 month window with my non-home resort points. That way I get a full reservation at one resort, without having to own any more points at that resort. Right now, I only have 75 BW points.

But, the point charts could change, they have arleady changed once, the cheapest season used to be even cheaper (January, Sept and those first 2 weeks in December). They took some points from May and added them onto January, Sept and the first 2 weeks in December.

 

[sumessefui]

When we joined the DVC in 96, we asked our guide about this large difference in points. He told us that it was to keep people who lived close from taking up all the weekends. This made sense to us, and I have seen posts from people who live close saying that they would take several long weekends if the points were not so high. This would make it difficult for those of us who live far away to book whole weeks.
I think one big reason for the Fri/Sat availability is that we all try to maximize our points and stay away from those days. We have 400 points and we stay weekends, but we try to keep it to 1 Fri/Sat. The best way to look at it is that the points are based on a whole week's stay. If they were evened out it would still be the same number for a week, and weekends would be harder to book. JMO Jerry.

 

[Richyams]

Originally posted by sumessefui
If they were evened out it would still be the same number for a week, and weekends would be harder to book. JMO Jerry.

That is the bottom line, I agree compltely.

I have more than 400 points also, and I also try to make it one weekend in the middle of a stay. 12 night stays have become my norm. I would never dream of moving for the weekend, its just way too much trouble.

I think that minimizing your weekend use is fine. I think that avoiding weekends like the plague is going to force an evening out of points.

There are two sets of people that hurt us in this respect. One is renters, they primarily rent only weeknight. The other is that group of people who either don't have enough points to stay a weekend or are just that averse to spending them.

I hope they never do even out the days. I like to be able to rent out longer than a full week for every vacation. If they even them out, I can definitely see weekends going first. I would probably use a few long weekends if the points were lower.

 

[Chuck S]

I don't mind the higher weekend points, I have 345. Usually we go to WDW 2x a year, and stay for several days (2 full weeks his coming trip). It is such a hassle to check out on friday and back in on Sunday that the only time I avoid weekends is if we squeeze in a third trip and are short on points, otherwise, it just isn't worth it to us.

 

[Towncrier]

I know that this subject has been beaten to death, but I've done the math (and posted the results in the past) and, at least for a 2BR at OKW, the best "bargain" is obviously to stay 5 or fewer nights (Su-Th). The second best "bargain" is a 6 night stay which includes one Friday or Saturday night or a 12 night stay which includes one Friday and one Saturday. These two combinations work out mathematically the same. For any other combination, the average point cost per night is larger. It is for this reason that our plans include 12 night visits to OKW over the next 40 or so years (with an occasionaly 7-day cruise thrown into the mix). Any reallocation of points will of course require a rethinking of our philosophy.

 

[OKWKirt]

I have to agree with Doc that all timeshares on a point system are much higher on weekends, more than DVC. I just bought into the Big Cedar Wilderness Club (near Branson, MO) and for a two bedroom cabin the points (high season) Sun = 1800, Mon/Tue/Wed/Thur = 700 each, Fri/Sat = 3200 each. Another example, I have one in Branson which for a one bedroom (Prime season) Sun/Thur = 12000 each, Mon/Tue/Wed = 9000 each, Fri/Sat = 23000 each. I compare these with DVC by taking off the "0's" and it is more understandable. A side note, the Big Cedar Wilderness Club is being constructed next to, and part of the Big Cedar Lodge which uses DVC points.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

For a BWV 2 BR, a weekend costs the same as Sun-Thurs. combined during the summer season we have to go. So, either we do 5 nights or only go every other year. I know that in 2002 we are only doing 5 nights BWV, but have not decided whether to do another resort for 2 nights, do the Hard Rock and go to Universal for the first time (DH's choice!) or just keep it 5 days. That way we don't have to borrow any 2003 points, so we can bank them and use them (and borrowed 2005 points) in 2004 for our cruise.
Of course if DH likes our first trip this June, hopefully we can add some WLV points for weekends and make it easier!
Robin M.

 

[baileybrad]

I trust that if the system is broken that DVC will repair it on an as needed basis. It must be working fairly well. I believe that for most folks who are flying in and not renting an automobile that a Saturday stay is just part of the DVC experience. We usually stay at least one weekend night and we drive more often than not. When we visit HH (our home resort) we arrive on a Sunday after driving part of the way on Saturday and leave on the following Saturday morning. I trust the DVC folks to handle things in a proper fashion. They are doing a really good job as far as I can ascertain.

 

[Scott5150]

I feel like I am a pauper her, with only 200 points!

I can get a 1 BR at OKW in Feb, arrive Sunday AM, and Depart Friday PM for 100 points. That works well.

If you have limited points and would like to take more than one trip in a year, you can really stretch them if you go on Sun-Friday. Avoiding Friday and Sat nights is a fiscally responsible thing to do.

If you are not on a point budget (and don't we all wish we were) you don't have to worry about it.

If DVC sees the need to rebalance the points we will all just shift our usage habits to what suits us best individually.

One other great thing to do is tack some weekday room points to the front or back of a cruise - we did that with the Magic 3 day twice. Arrive Sunday and stay for 5 nights, then go on the 3 day cruise when your stay at the resort would cost 2.5 times more points.

Scott

 

[Dean]

I went back and checked Fairfield and many of the differentials are that high (contrary to my recollection). Paradise Village is not but in MX, I suspect it's less of a problem. I was going to check Bluegreen also but can't get in their website right now but I'm certain that the differential is not as high for them.

We are 4 hours away and only once in 7 years have we stayed even one weekend points day. If weekends were the same, we'd go for the weekends on points several times a year. Undoubtably, there needs to be a differtial and the question is what's the best differential. I'm not sure I trust that DVC will always do the right thing but they have a legal responsiblity to do so and have the hard facts available to them to make that decision as they see fit.

 

[TroyWDW]

The issue that I was raising for discussion was that I have noticed a possible trend (from a very limited dataset, mind you) that it appears that Su-Th are being booked disproportionately relative to Fr-Sa.

From a purely theoretical basis, I believe that one would want to have all seven days of the week be reserved in an equal fashion at all times of the reservation process. It seems to me that filling the Su-Th slots early and filling the Fr-Sa slots late in the reservation process would deliver a lower member satisfaction.

For people who make their plans at the 11 month window this is a non-issue. But, for others who are trying to make plans with less lead time this is a potential issue.

Just some anecdotal evidence, but on our most recent stay, I changed our reservations 2 weeks before our arrival. We were able to get Fr-Sa in a 1BR Standard View even at that late date, while Su-Th was unavailable for any type room. If I remember correctly, the views (pref/stand) are split 80/20 at the BWV, which makes this seem even more unlikely.

I also talked to the folks at the BWV front desk about availability of rooms for the weekdays and weekends during our stay. There were many rooms available for Fr-Sa.

In my opinion, ideally, we would want reservations to fill all days of the week equally as the reservation process proceeds from the 11 month mark right up to the arrival date. This would maximize the satisfaction of all members.

I am curious as to how many rooms actually go unused and whether there is a trend based upon the day of the week. Does anyone know if room vacancy information is disclosed by DVCMC in any reports?

Disclaimer: I am making some very large generalizations based upon very limited data. I was just curious how other people viewed their satisfaction with the reservation process. I apparently have missed the previous discussions on this topic.

Troy

 

[Dean]

Troy, I believe your limited experience has been repeated by many. That is why I believe there will/should(?) be an adjustment. I agree with your expectation that the points would ideally be set so as to balance equally at any point in the reservation process and I think most all members would agree. There will always be some minor variations but the goal should be as you posted.

Come to think of it, I haven't seen anyone post with fire and brimstone about this topic in a while. Seems like a couple of years ago, there were always 2 or 3 people who would post very strong and insulting statements to the affect that you @#$#$ better not mess with my points. There are people who have planned their future stays to the last point and these are the ones that would be adversely affected. I remember one girl got so mad at me for posting that I thought it would be adjusted, she could hardly see. She was VERY upset that I was "starting rumors" and that if they did change the points it would be my fault. I don't know if she's still on the board, if she is it's by another name. I still remember name and have searched for her since and didn't find any posts. She was very rude and since I had upset her, sent her an email directly apoligizing for upsetting her as that is never my intent. She wouldn't even respond, just posted more negative stuff on the thread something to the effect, that if she had wanted direct email she would have asked for it. I have to restrain myself in that situation as my first response is to twist the knife a little at at time. LOL.

 

[auntsue]

Because I hadn't found this board when I reserved our Thanksgiving week stay, I am doing the unthinkable. We are staying Fri thru the next Sat, using the higher priced weekend points for three of our eight nights, plus I am renting a 1BR for my sister the first Fri night so she doesn't have to pay for LOS passes etc. on a package since we are not arriving until 10:30 pm. We stayed off-site for the first night the last time we went on cash, and really wanted to eliminate that extra move. I admire the people who can really stretch their points, but I think we are just going to buy another week at BCV and then we should have all we need.

 

[bicker]

Originally posted by TroyWDW
The issue that I was raising for discussion was that I have noticed a possible trend (from a very limited dataset, mind you) that it appears that Su-Th are being booked disproportionately relative to Fr-Sa.

From a purely theoretical basis, I believe that one would want to have all seven days of the week be reserved in an equal fashion at all times of the reservation process.

I disagree completely. The reason for the differential is to ensure that folks who want to book a week can readily do so as they wish. With apologies to the locals, the timeshare wouldn't sell as well if steps weren't taken to ensure that folks who wanted to book traditional week-long vacations regularly encountered problems doing so.

What is important is whether all seven days of the week are reserved in an equal fashion at the END of the reservation process (i.e., just before the Breakage point).

It seems to me that filling the Su-Th slots early and filling the Fr-Sa slots late in the reservation process would deliver a lower member satisfaction.

I doubt that; I think the opposite would.

 

[TroyWDW]

Brian,

Thanks for posting an alternate point-of-view.

I disagree completely. The reason for the differential is to ensure that folks who want to book a week can readily do so as they wish. With apologies to the locals, the timeshare wouldn't sell as well if steps weren't taken to ensure that folks who wanted to book traditional week-long vacations regularly encountered problems doing so.

What is important is whether all seven days of the week are reserved in an equal fashion at the END of the reservation process (i.e., just before the Breakage point).

I can agree with and support your previous statement, as a minimum goal. (As I stated earlier, I would go farther and place a goal of keeping the days equal throughout the entire reservation process. But, I'm assuming a weeklong vacation style as the major usage pattern.)

But, I think there is evidence that the current point system isn't delivering on your stated goal either (equal usage at the Breakage Point). I'll repeat my caveats that I've made some generalizations from a limited dataset. But, usually where there is smoke, there is fire.

Dean, thanks for the warning. I'll be sure to walk in well lit areas when I'm at WDW and I'll be sure to attend Doc's flagpole meetings in disguise.

Troy

 

[Lisa F]

Just when you think you "know it all" about how to manipulate DVC to your advantage, you read something that shows that you don't. ILuvDVC, we are just about to sign a 50 point VWL add on and I was JUST thinking about what a nightmare (but a good one!) it will be to use those points in the best way possible (since we don't really like the idea of changing stays midway). It never occured to me (though it might have once I started trying to plan with it!) to book weekday stays first because it's so much easier to book the weekend part of the trip at the 7 month window (since i tend to think of things in terms of "weeks"). I never though of it that way!

Lisa

 

[ocdb8r]

Another issue that hasn't been raised is what happens to those available nights AFTER the breakage period. It is in our best interest for the occupancy rate to remain as high as possible (b/c any breakage income reduces dues). Is there any advantage to there being more weekend stays available at 60 days out vs. full week stays? I'm not sure. Being from CA, Fridays and Saturdays would be alot easier to rent out at the 60 day breakage period than Sun-Thurs. This is primarily because we only have two parks and many locals love to make a weekend event out of the "Disneyland Resort." I'm not sure if the same is true for WDW. It seems stays of only 2 nights would not be that popular.

What I'm getting at is that aside from member satisfaction, is DVC shooting itself in the foot by having a surplus of 2 night stays available after the breakage period? To be honest, for myself I like being able to stay Sun-Thurs for such a reasonable amount of points, 5 nights is the perfect length stay for me, but I would much prefer that occupancy stays as high as possible to keep our dues down.