Student Loans

[dreamer17555]

So, college CAN be done without debt; but it requires research, hard work, and lots of sacrifices. My kids aren't spending summers and breaks on expensive vacations, or driving shiny new cars. But they also won't have the burden of college debt. Repsonsible finances are all about choices and trade-offs. It's a shame so many young people didn't know or understand that.

I think you’re painting with a pretty broad brush here. Many students do not have parents who will help guide them or have any knowledge of the inner workings of finances or college. There are many first generation college students with very little guidance. Even if you’ve navigate it yourself the world is completely different and college costs are insane today. I will say for my daughter the guidance counselor at her school tried but was of very little help. In all honesty neither her nor I knew how to navigate everything and we got very lucky. A lot of kids from her school did not get so lucky. It’s so happened that at the time she submitted her applications the scholarship committees happen to like how she wrote, the story she had to tell, they could connect with her, and they liked what they saw on her résumé. When she went for interviews they happen to find her personally charming but they could’ve easily gone the other way. It really can be luck of the draw when it comes to bigger scholarships. Yes she absolutely worked very hard but so did many other students who did not get selected. Some of it comes down to sheer dumb luck. Being in the right state with the right person reading your application at the right moment.

My parents did not teach me great financial advice. Money was not spoken of in their families and so they never taught me. I’ve had to learn the hard way. Finance was not taught at school and still isn’t in many places including my own daughter’s school. I don’t know any of her friends or peers that are spending lavishly on cars or expensive vacations. They can’t afford it. If anyone is spending lavishly- it’s the parents and they are instilling that in their child. I was never taught about opportunity cost until I enrolled my homeschooled son in a personal finance course.

A lot of times people just don’t know. And if you don’t know you don’t always know what you’re missing. One of the best ways to combat this would be for a personal finance class to be required for every graduating high school student. College bound or not.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My kids aren't spending summers and breaks on expensive vacations, or driving shiny new cars.

The only ones I knew that did that was because their parents were footing the bill. Are we laying the blame of that onto the students or to the parents? Spring break is like the only time I can reasonably think you have a large amount of college students on vacation although that was never me nor anyone I personally know it is the only time I can think of.

When I worked in school the concept of vacation time wasn't around because if I didn't work I didn't get paid and if I didn't get paid I couldn't go to college. None of my jobs until 6 months after I graduated college even came with benefits. During my breaks that's when I made sure to work even more.

I also still drive the car I bought when I was 17 that was 3 years old at that point. If you ask my husband he wishes the rust bucket would go RIP lol. In fact when we were planning on a new car last year I refused to get rid of my car. My husband's car is a 2010 and has been driven hard (it has more miles on it than my 2002) enough. People automatically assume my car will be the one to go but unless she decided to kick the bucket I'm down with keeping her.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Which is what people are doing by asking student loans to be forgiven. Trying to vote in people to get predatory policies changed.

can i ask for loan forgiveness on my house, my dvc points, my cars,
oh and get to keep them!

can i ask for forgiveness on my taxes?

you played now it is time to pay….

or like i said before move to a state that will forgive your loan after you work for the people for a minimum number of years!

 

[NotUrsula]

can i ask for loan forgiveness on my house, my dvc points, my cars,
oh and get to keep them!

can i ask for forgiveness on my taxes?

you played now it is time to pay….

or like i said before move to a state that will forgive your loan after you work for the people for a minimum number of years!

One point needs to be remembered here: the Federal government has a vested interest in having Americans get educations that will lead to higher pay, because then we will pay more in taxes. If your DVC points and your cars had the potential to put more money in the public kitty, then I'd say it might be a reasonable request.

Also, I always worked two jobs during my college years, and still had to take out some loans; not large ones, but my family couldn't afford to give me a red cent; in fact, my mother depended on me to help her make ends meet. I took the maximum class load (21 hours) because once you hit 15 the semester tuition maxed out, and I couldn't pass up 6 free credit hours on my plan to finish in 3 years. I majored in education because I needed that "employable" career field and was not very good at math, but at the beginning of my senior year I failed to pass a mandatory hearing test and was ejected from the College of Education because I couldn't hear well enough for the state standard for teachers. At that point it was either start over or use the class credits I had toward another degree, which is what I did, so I graduated as a history major. Then I got an on-campus full-time clerical job to take advantage of the school's education benefits, which let me get a professional Master's that was paid for by the University, but at one class per term it took me 3 more years to finish it, during which time my loan payments were deferred. All that time I lived in a 2 bedroom house with 3 other women (sharing a bedroom like in a dorm), and I ate a lot of ramen: my rent was $75/mo. I had no car and took the bus everywhere until I got my first professional job, at which point I bought a 12 year old Corolla. My first serious boyfriend in college took me to dinner one evening and was shocked to realize that I hadn't eaten in a full-service restaurant since I was 10; though by that time I'd sure worked in a lot of them. By the time I was earning a decent steady paycheck that let me pay the loans without skimping on necessities, I was 26 years old. Playing wasn't something I ever did back then, except that I admit I did go to bars for the free food on ladies' nights (that was a thing in the 80's, thank God, because it covered 2 meals a week, and water with a lime slice looks remarkably like a gin & tonic.)

And ... typing this in the wee hours I forgot to add the moral. I worked my butt off to make myself a contributing member of society, and I paid off my loans in time; that doesn't make me some kind of hero, it makes me an ordinary taxpayer. There were times when I got a small helping hand along the way, and I was very grateful for it. I'm pretty old now, but I've still got a long enough memory not to begrudge a bit of help to people who are still down there sweating through the launch countdown. It's their government, too, and I figure that a bit of help goes a long way in cementing an understanding of why it's a good thing to aid the less fortunate once in a while. I pay taxes now, and when I'm beyond that, they will be paying taxes. The world continues to turn.

 

[mefordis]

I just wish the payments on student loans would be tied to the graduate's income. A new teacher making $40,000 per year should not have to make the same high payment as a new attorney making $100,000 per year.

A teacher would have a tough time paying back a big student loan with their salary, I'm guessing.

 

[disykat]

I get that some college "kids" apparently don't understand what they are signing up for. What I don't get is why, then, on this board when people try to talk about ways that students CAN get through school by trying to minimize the amount of loans they take a bunch of people get angry and literally don't want to hear it.

While I certainly agree that personal finance should be a requirement, my guess is that in many cases it's not that advice hasn't been given, it's that it wasn't listened to. My kids didn't have a class in school called "personal finance" but they did have a class in junior high called "high school and beyond" where they talked about preparation for college and the finances associated. (I actually took a similar class in 8th grade back in the mid 70's to what my kids took 10 years ago in a different school district/different state.) There was also an evening event at my kid's school every year for Sophomores and Juniors and/or their parents that was about how to pay for college. I have a hard time believing that students that are smart enough to go to college don't at minimum understand that loans have interest and need to be paid back.

Yes, I have known kids who knew nothing and had no parental support or teaching about finances. In my experience, those aren't the kids that struggle with the idea of paying back loans. Those kids often DO running start programs and work hard to minimize their loans. Sometimes those are the kids who earn aide scholarships. Honestly IME, this is more of a middle class problem with students who want to go to specific schools far from home and maybe even private, not work, want "good" housing with reasonable furniture and no roommates, don't qualify for scholarships, have cars, take spring break trips, whose parents want them "to have the best..." etc.

I'm all for making higher education more affordable. I'm not against loan forgiveness programs that have rules and reward hard work, I'm actually even okay with a generic 10K off loans despite my family making great sacrifices for my children not to benefit from that program. I'm not okay with paying for the bad decisions of millions.

This is a really tough subject and there is passion on both sides. We saved for college. My kids got jobs at 16 and started saving too. They went to in state schools where they could qualify for some academic scholarships (one at entrance, and one when he entered his major) and applied for tons of other scholarships, the six years while my kids were in college I doubled my work load, my kids worked, they had cheap housing with lots of roommates, etc. etc. They took extra classes and graduated early. We really sacrificed. I'm not saying lots of kids don't have it really tough, but it's hard when I know MANY kids who belly ache about loans who had school experiences my kids wouldn't even dream of.

What notUrsula described above was much like my kid's college experience and was definitely my experience in college and my 20's too (other than having more parental financial support) and also of my parents before me. Being a "poor college student" used to be the norm, even when parents were helping. IMO she did it the right way and was able to make it because of it.

 

[dreamer17555]

I don’t think it’s a simple as kids don’t understand that loans need to be paid back. I think a lot of times kids go to college thinking that they will major in one thing and then things shift. They get into a weed out of class and can’t keep up. Or they find out that while they got all A’s in high school they’re barely pulling Cs in college because they didn’t understand that their high school was using grade inflation. A lot of times people take out loans with the best of intentions of paying them back but then life happens- illness, accidents, etc. I personally know so many kids that are not finishing their education for one reason or another- it’s a little disheartening.

And don’t even get me started on college advisors who on paper look like they are setting your student up to graduate in four years and then do very little to make sure your student will actually be able to get into those courses. For instance when a class is absolutely required by seniors in a field but there’s only 30 slots for a large contingence of students it’s practically criminal.

And to a point yes kids feel that they’re infallible. It is wired into their brains at that age. Frontal lobe is not fully developed at 17-20 when students are signing up for these loans. And under our current system the federal loans max out at 27k. However It is parents who are cosigning these much larger loans and then pushing said loans onto their students. Adults are the ones encouraging them to take these outrageous amounts. It is absolutely being taught at home by adults that they look to guide them. If your parent is saying absolutely take another 20k per year, why would a 17-18 year old think it is going to be an issue? My daughter’s guidance counselor encouraged loans for goodness sake. At that age if all the adults are telling you that these loans are fine and you will be able to pay them back because of course you will be successful who are you to argue?

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

Also please stop acting like loan forgiveness programs as they are now work. They do not. Did people miss the headlines recently where people went into low paying teaching jobs thinking their loans would be forgiven only to find out 10+ years later that no, they wouldn't qualify?

My sister just had her loans forgiven this month. She's been paying them for 18 years. She had to apply to have them forgiven four times because she kept being denied. The service was looking for anything minor to deny them and she had to fight them for eight years. So lots of people took out loans thinking they'd give back to their communities and then found out it was basically a scam.

So it's not just irresponsible kids, it's an entirely predatory system. That's what people who compare it to mortgages or DVC points don't get.

 

[mrodgers]

I don't know any doctors. At least not well enough to know what kind of house they have. How many do you know?

City vs. small town perhaps? Everyone knows who every doctor is and where they live, thus what they live in.

That's not to say the doctors I know of have student loans or they've paid them off, but it would be ridiculous for them to complain if they did have them and live in million dollar houses where until this past year and a half normal houses were in the $125-175k range.

 

[amylevan]

I think at this point we can all agree that everyone is different and there are lots of reasons why people end up with student loan debt. But what exactly is loan forgiveness going to solve? It’s a one point in time gift and not much more. A whole new generation of loans are started every year.

I’m not thrilled with loan forgiveness across the board for a variety of reasons (personal family knowledge of where some of that money going to someone who hasn't attempted to hold a full time job in years as a major one…) but I can accept a one time deal for a set amount if we have to. BUT there better be some regulations and change as part of the process. Where are the cost controls on colleges? Why not fix loan interest rates so that money can get paid back by the owner without help? What’s stopping this from being needed over and over again? Because I can’t get behind a loan forgiveness policy where we continually do this.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think at this point we can all agree that everyone is different and there are lots of reasons why people end up with student loan debt. But what exactly is loan forgiveness going to solve? It’s a one point in time gift and not much more. A whole new generation of loans are started every year.

I’m not thrilled with loan forgiveness across the board for a variety of reasons (personal family knowledge of where some of that money going to someone who hasn't attempted to hold a full time job in years as a major one…) but I can accept a one time deal for a set amount if we have to. BUT there better be some regulations and change as part of the process. Where are the cost controls on colleges? Why not fix loan interest rates so that money can get paid back by the owner without help? What’s stopping this from being needed over and over again? Because I can’t get behind a loan forgiveness policy where we continually do this.

I assume this initial program for $10K forgiveness would just be the camel's nose under the tent. The minute it's done, there will be a drum beat for more.

And I agree, it does nothing to fix the out of control costs. In fact likely makes it worse.

 

[kymom99]

City vs. small town perhaps? Everyone knows who every doctor is and where they live, thus what they live in.

That's not to say the doctors I know of have student loans or they've paid them off, but it would be ridiculous for them to complain if they did have them and live in million dollar houses where until this past year and a half normal houses were in the $125-175k range.

I live in a neighborhood with at least 2 doctors. Both have nice houses but not million dollars houses. My cousin is a doctor and his wife is as well. He mentioned that they had student loans at one time but I have no idea how much. They live in a farmhouse on some acreage. They are planning to tear down the current house and build another in the same site. I’m sure it will be nice. But I’m also sure his loans are history.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Honestly IME, this is more of a middle class problem with students who want to go to specific schools far from home and maybe even private, not work, want "good" housing with reasonable furniture and no roommates, don't qualify for scholarships, have cars, take spring break trips, whose parents want them "to have the best..." etc.

That was my sister only she was fine with roommates qualified for a crap ton of scholarships and didn't take spring break trips although she did join a sorority (which was so opposite of what she would normally be about). However she was (and may still be) an elitist. Not sure where she got it from can't figure it out.

She had a full ride from the other big college in my state but no that was not enough. She wanted Rolla big time and then ended up at Cornell. Yeah she was all about the Ivy League thing and it sure wasn't like we were rich lol.

She was in civil engineering for so many years having worked for the city during her high school years too. However, my sister had mental issues she had never gotten looked at, my parents didn't want to see it although I knew things were up.

Her sophomore year of college she abruptly switched to English major and then soon after was put on academic probation and was advised by the college to go home get her depression (which was strongly suspicion and eventually formally diagnosed) and don't come back until that is being well treated. She never went back and lost all her credits she had done because they wouldn't release her transcripts until she paid them what she owed. She ended up going to Community College and then onto where I actually went and I believe has an accounting degree ironically I might add because my mom did accounting for many years just without a college degree and my sister like to throw it in my mom's face that "what did she know she didn't have a college degree". She did have some loans for Cornell because tuition isn't cheap but a lot was taken care of with scholarship.

I just found out last year that in 2007/2008 she went to bankruptcy court and got the scholarship money removed. We say you know the rules about loans, well you know the rules about scholarships. We also tell our kids to get as much scholarship money as they can. Why is that okay to be built into the system to be discharged due to financial woes but we have an antagonistic relationship societially with student loans.

One thing that I think we all do is generalize a bit too much. My sister wanted that school but she was fine living with roommates nor did she care about the furniture nor did she go on lavish trips, she was well used to working in fact how she hid her depression from my parents (even with me trying to tell them) was working 2 jobs because that was how she could explain her exhaustion and why sleeping more than 12 hours often enough was just fine, and she had an older car (a 1999 plymouth breeze that I'm sure stuck out like a sore thumb in cornell) and while I know my parents wanted success for us neither one nor my stepmom were snooty about things although we're considered middle class. And I couldn't be farther from my sister on so many levels, beats me how we could end up so dang different on our mentalities. Although don't confuse that to mean she didn't know she didn't have to pay her loans back, she knew she did, she after all took a gadzillion AP courses, got a 34/36 on her ACT and got into Ivy League (that's tongue and cheek there because that stuff is what mattered to her in terms of being above others).

More to my point for most of my comments is how much of X comprises of the issue. I think sometimes we all have gotten into the my side vs your side but I have usually wanted to know the scope of things and that absolutely goes for anything I've talked about too. We may share our stories of our own plights or our own experiences with people we know but we don't necessarily know how much of us out there are also shared. To me to know just what we can work to do we have to know the scope of the issue. There's no ignoring that you have those types of kids out there you've described or ones that I or others have described, but it's understanding is that how we got into THIS mess or is it other things. To me you can't get around that there are flaws in our system, I don't think it's conscionable to ignore that.

While I certainly agree that personal finance should be a requirement, my guess is that in many cases it's not that advice hasn't been given, it's that it wasn't listened to

You know what we did have in high school? The "take the fake baby home" class. Yes teenage pregnancy is a big issue. Other life lessons were not really on the radar unless you count sewing and food classes (I really did enjoy the food classes was making all sorts of different recipes). In truth you'll also find parents who don't believe it's the school's place. There absolutely should be a class in high school (preferably junior year IMO) for finance things not only in how debt works but how different kinds of debt works, how a loan process goes, loans conditions, budgeting, etc.

I will give 1 caveat though, for a field trip we went to this place called Exchange City in elementary school IIRC (which really that experience should have been repeated in middle and high school). It's a place where built in is a fake city complete with shops and all. That is the single time that finances were really taught. I was in the bank as my job. Two different schools were there at the same time so we all intermingled with jobs. But after that talk about budgeting, how credit cards work, loans and mortgages was not done and by us being in elementary school most of that knowledge is so surface level and not repeated later on when things become tangible such as jobs and then looking towards college OR whatever one plans to do after high school. We should also have a class about taxes and how to file them, how claiming exemptions work, etc.

I think my elementary school did well to prepare us for middle and high school where you switched rooms for classes and had to take your stuff with you. But I wish that in high school we had a class that taught much more things. It's easy to say "we'll help fill out a form" it's another to go over what that form means.

students CAN get through school by trying to minimize the amount of loans they take a bunch of people get angry and literally don't want to hear it.

This is just my observation but I don't think it's being ignored or falling on deaf years. But we do still as a society have this opinion that if I did it so can you, including myself in that because there are times where I've been outspoken about teens getting the responsibility to pay for things like a car, cell phone, insurance, etc.

Also saying that you can try to minimize the loans a decent amount of times when people give examples of how they did it either by being dual enrolled to get a leg up on credits, took CC classes during the summer, went to a school that wasn't astronomical in costs, worked through college, didn't have fancy things, etc it can be met with "well I'm not talking about you though" but those people who comment are usually the louder voices, myself included. I'm not sure angry is the emotion that gets exhibited though. If I had to be honest the "literally don't want to heart it" IME comes across the strongest and loudest from the group that feels "I did it (or my kids did it) so can you (your kids). Purely my observation. All the voices talk, but who is the loudest is another thing.

 

[Moliphino]

I live in a neighborhood with at least 2 doctors. Both have nice houses but not million dollars houses. My cousin is a doctor and his wife is as well. He mentioned that they had student loans at one time but I have no idea how much. They live in a farmhouse on some acreage. They are planning to tear down the current house and build another in the same site. I’m sure it will be nice. But I’m also sure his loans are history.

A pediatric surgeon lives on the mountain behind my parents' house. The house is actually for sale now for $700k. He's old though, he's lived there longer than my parents (over 24 years) and has been a doctor since the 60s.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

living in a tiny "starter home" as this forum likes to offensively call my home when I had it?

Is this something that really upsets you? I don't know that I've seen people talk disagreeably on starter homes, in fact that's why we're in the predicament that we're in with housing because starter homes have been all but eliminated from the market. I lived in a rental house that was a starter home, while it was built crappy it was perfectly fine to live in although if living there as a homeowner I would say the downside would have been the storage as there was none save for a small space in the attic in the garage (it was a 1 story slab house uncommon in our area due to not having a basement but was what that entire neighborhood was built as). Although that particular house is now Zestimate of over $300K so it's no longer what I would considered priced as a starter home...

 

[Kestryl]

I get that some college "kids" apparently don't understand what they are signing up for. What I don't get is why, then, on this board when people try to talk about ways that students CAN get through school by trying to minimize the amount of loans they take a bunch of people get angry and literally don't want to hear it.

While I certainly agree that personal finance should be a requirement, my guess is that in many cases it's not that advice hasn't been given, it's that it wasn't listened to. My kids didn't have a class in school called "personal finance" but they did have a class in junior high called "high school and beyond" where they talked about preparation for college and the finances associated. (I actually took a similar class in 8th grade back in the mid 70's to what my kids took 10 years ago in a different school district/different state.) There was also an evening event at my kid's school every year for Sophomores and Juniors and/or their parents that was about how to pay for college. I have a hard time believing that students that are smart enough to go to college don't at minimum understand that loans have interest and need to be paid back.

Yes, I have known kids who knew nothing and had no parental support or teaching about finances. In my experience, those aren't the kids that struggle with the idea of paying back loans. Those kids often DO running start programs and work hard to minimize their loans. Sometimes those are the kids who earn aide scholarships. Honestly IME, this is more of a middle class problem with students who want to go to specific schools far from home and maybe even private, not work, want "good" housing with reasonable furniture and no roommates, don't qualify for scholarships, have cars, take spring break trips, whose parents want them "to have the best..." etc.

I'm all for making higher education more affordable. I'm not against loan forgiveness programs that have rules and reward hard work, I'm actually even okay with a generic 10K off loans despite my family making great sacrifices for my children not to benefit from that program. I'm not okay with paying for the bad decisions of millions.

This is a really tough subject and there is passion on both sides. We saved for college. My kids got jobs at 16 and started saving too. They went to in state schools where they could qualify for some academic scholarships (one at entrance, and one when he entered his major) and applied for tons of other scholarships, the six years while my kids were in college I doubled my work load, my kids worked, they had cheap housing with lots of roommates, etc. etc. They took extra classes and graduated early. We really sacrificed. I'm not saying lots of kids don't have it really tough, but it's hard when I know MANY kids who belly ache about loans who had school experiences my kids wouldn't even dream of.

What notUrsula described above was much like my kid's college experience and was definitely my experience in college and my 20's too (other than having more parental financial support) and also of my parents before me. Being a "poor college student" used to be the norm, even when parents were helping. IMO she did it the right way and was able to make it because of it.

Yep! My husband is a math teacher and regularly incorporates personal finance “lessons” into his curriculum- how to calculate interest on a savings account, how long it would take to pay off x amount of debt with this interest and this payment plan, what if they paid extra each month, etc.

I remember going over this stuff in our general math classes (mainly algebra) back in the ‘00s.

(Still in favor of loan reform, just wanted to say that teaching finances in high school won’t necessarily be the single solution to this problem.)

 

[mjkacmom]

My cousin and his wife are both doctors (ED doctor and pediatric psychiatrist), live in a million dollar home, but it’s in garden city LI, very modest, no yard, but a minute walk to the train. Just like college costs vary greatly based on what state you live in, so do home costs.

 

[Colleen27]

I live in a neighborhood with at least 2 doctors. Both have nice houses but not million dollars houses. My cousin is a doctor and his wife is as well. He mentioned that they had student loans at one time but I have no idea how much. They live in a farmhouse on some acreage. They are planning to tear down the current house and build another in the same site. I’m sure it will be nice. But I’m also sure his loans are history.

Two of my daughter's friends have a doctor for a parent. One lives on a couple of acres in the cutest little Tutor-style house, and I know the family well enough to know they bought it before the mother finished her studies. Her husband is a skilled tradesman for an automaker, so he makes a good living in his own right, and the house was attainable on his income alone. She's only three or four years into practicing medicine now and still putting every dime of her own paycheck into her loans. The other I don't know as well, but I've been to the house and it is a nice if somewhat generic "McMansion" type place in one of the rare subdivisions in our area, nothing flashy but on a perfect lot at the back of the cul-de-sac, backing up onto the river with a kayak launch in their yard. If I had to guess, the place is probably worth 350-400K, which is high for our area but not top-of-market. The father has been a practicing OB/GYN long enough that he delivered some of my 9th grader's classmates and the mother worked as an assistant in his practice before kids. My guess is his loans are long gone.

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

I think at this point we can all agree that everyone is different and there are lots of reasons why people end up with student loan debt. But what exactly is loan forgiveness going to solve? It’s a one point in time gift and not much more. A whole new generation of loans are started every year.

I’m not thrilled with loan forgiveness across the board for a variety of reasons (personal family knowledge of where some of that money going to someone who hasn't attempted to hold a full time job in years as a major one…) but I can accept a one time deal for a set amount if we have to. BUT there better be some regulations and change as part of the process. Where are the cost controls on colleges? Why not fix loan interest rates so that money can get paid back by the owner without help? What’s stopping this from being needed over and over again? Because I can’t get behind a loan forgiveness policy where we continually do this.

This has already started to happen but has a long way to go and the thought is easing an entire generation's debt will actually help the economy because instead of struggling just to make loan payments they will have the freedom to invest in things like the housing market, etc. Since people starting raising this issue a number of schools (including ivy league) have offered slots where if you make under a certain amount of money tuition is automatically waived. That's a HUGE deal, though I think it does need to be pushed farther. Why are colleges and universities allowed to sit on huge endowments and then raise prices ridiculously every year? There needs to be more oversight.

But to understand forgiving student loans now you have to seriously understand that most people will never pay them off. They can't. The interest rates are too high and those that can pay them off still sometimes end up paying 150% or more of the original loan. Some of them entered into jobs hoping for loan forgiveness ten+ years ago only to be able to make bare minimum payments. Some people graduated during recessions. I personally graduated during the dot com bust and if you got a computer science degree you were absolutely boned because the market was FLOODED with people that had a decade of experience taking up the entry level jobs. We have crippled at least two and probably more generations with this debt that society absolutely pushed them into thinking they desperately needed. You won't find many high school counselors that tell you NOT to go to college. Mine was appalled that I had only applied to 2 schools (all we could afford considering the application fees) and bullied me until I lied to her that I had applied to at least 2 more.

And I do think you need a college degree to get a foot in the door most places these days. My husband dropped out of college and it is the single biggest regret of his life. He currently works an entry level job not making very much money and he's in his 40s because most places will auto-reject you if you don't have a BA or a BS on there. He finally went back to school and got his degree, but now while he's not auto-rejected, he's in his 40s and a 22 year old with a degree is going to beat him out any day.

So we created this problem in the job force, marketed it heavily to high schoolers and families that couldn't afford it, and the banks swooped in to 'save the day' by creating a mire of debt that even well meaning, hardworking people can't climb out of. I hear people saying they worked 2-3 jobs and scrimped and saved to pay off their loans and it's like...you shouldn't have had to. A bank won't give you a mortgage if they can't see that you can rather easily make the payments (the whole was it 2005 fiasco not withstanding). Giving loans of 20-200k+ for teenagers that don't even have jobs yet is insane. But boy do they profit off of it at the expense, literally, of people's lives.

 

[daisy2013]

A teacher would have a tough time paying back a big student loan with their salary, I'm guessing.

There are income based plan for repaying student loans but often the payments do not cover the interest due and it get recapitalized into the loan and you have people who have made there payments on time for a number of years but end up owing more money than they started with.
This happened to a friend of mine who is a public defender representing primarily death row inmates (so not an easy job but a necessary one). He paid his loans for years but the principal kept growing. His wife is a nurse so she make a good living but not rich by any means.