Stuck between ex and dd....

[Pea-n-Me]

You highlighted the part where the service person allocated the amount to be shared. Certainly. He doesn't have to give any of it or all of it to her. No one disputes that. What you're missing is that if no one is in college they don't get the money - period. He wants his dd to use the benefit so he can get his hands on the money.

And you're sure of this... how?

Now we find out not only that, but he wants his exwife (the OP) to pay him half the value of any benefit he paid out. That way he would get "free" money from the government AND his exwife.

That's if it wasn't a misundersanding/miscommunication with the dd and if it wasn't simply a threat of what the father would like to do (given their past history) said during one of their arguments about this over the phone.

There's a point where that is not a gift

While I agree with this premise in general...

He is using his dd to get cash.

I don't know that it necessarily applies here.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Shared benefits in this case does not mean he gets a cut of the college stipend. It just means he can use the GI bill to send a child or spouse to school. (thus "sharing") The stipend will be hers and for him to expect her to cut him a check for half is very much fraud.

How about a link to back this opinion up?

 

[disykat]

And you're sure of this... how?

I'm not sure of it anymore than any of us are sure of anything. However, the OP stated he told his dd that he wants to keep 1/2 of the money slated for expenses. To me that seems pretty clear.

The GI bill does not pay people NOT to go to college, it is specifically for expenses of people in college.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'm not sure of it anymore than any of us are sure of anything. However, the OP stated he told his dd that he wants to keep 1/2 of the money slated for expenses. To me that seems pretty clear.

The GI bill does not pay people NOT to go to college, it is specifically for expenses of people in college.

He has 10 years to use it. He could use it for himself, or for another member of his family in that time. Or he doesn't have to use it at all.

I mean, none of us know his financial situation or his ethics, but do people really think he'd risk committing fraud against the government of the United States of America and losing everything he's worked for, for what, $5K and some change per year for a few years? After spending at least 10 years of his life serving in the military? I think it's a stretch. But maybe I'm just not as cynical as some of you seem to be.

Heck, if I was going to risk everything, it'd have to be for a heck of a lot more than that.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

He has 10 years to use it. He could use it for himself, or for another member of his family in that time. Or he doesn't have to use it at all.

I mean, none of us know his financial situation or his ethics, but do people really think he'd risk committing fraud against the government of the United States of America and losing everything he's worked for, for what, $5K and some change per year for a few years? After spending at least 10 years of his life serving in the military? I think it's a stretch. But maybe I'm just not as cynical as some of you seem to be.

Heck, if I was going to risk everything, it'd have to be for a heck of a lot more than that.

Without knowing his financial situation--it really could go either way. But it behooves those involved to fully understand what is allowed and what is not.

It seems that it is fine...but what if it isn't? Just because someone worked hard for something--doesn't mean they are incapable of making unwise decisions. It diminishes the possibility, but it doesn't eliminate it. This is not a reflection or opininonof the OPs ex---it's just a sad reflection on society today and how anything is possible.

I admit to being ignorant of how the GI bill works.

I do recall my student loan days though. I could use my loans for school and living expenses. I could not use the loan to go buy a car (in "cash" with the loan monies).

I find it difficult to understand a bill that allows a service person to convey tuition to their child but pocket a stipend for personal use. But again--I'm ignorant in that matter. On first read, I can see his share reads the way you read it...but I can also see it from the other POV.

It all just seems to be a hit mess of conflict. But before I allowed my dd to agree to and thus be depending on this free money...I'd want official word that dad is doinnf something legit so that in 2 or 3 years, we find out it wasn't and benefits are suspended.

Then when we are sure...I'd knock some sense into her to not look that gift horse in the mouth and suck it up for 4 years.

 

[disykat]

, but do people really think he'd risk committing fraud against the government of the United States of America and losing everything he's worked for, for what, $5K and some change per year for a few years? After spending at least 10 years of his life serving in the military? I think it's a stretch. But maybe I'm just not as cynical as some of you seem to be.

Heck, if I was going to risk everything, it'd have to be for a heck of a lot more than that.

Yes, I guess that based on the OP's description of him as a parent I do think that he has shown poor judgement and that this is a strong possibility. People try to cheat the government all the time.

 

[disykat]

He has 10 years to use it. He could use it for himself, or for another member of his family in that time. Or he doesn't have to use it at all.

Exactly. However, the one thing we do know is that the only use of that money is for expenses incurred during a college education. I'm not sure what you think he's doing with "his half?"

 

[Disney Doll]

And this is the reason, OP, that my friend never took anything from her DD's father. Then he couldn't expect his butt to be kissed.

Call me crazy, but this guy is the kid's father, right? If he were still married to the kid's mother he would be expected to pay for her college education or as much of it as he could afford, right?

So why is he expecting everyone to kiss his butt for doing what he is supposed to be doing? DH & I couldn't have kids, but if we had been able to have children, both of us would have expected paying for college...or at least whatever portion of it we could afford...without having the kid grovel at our feet.

 

[kellyg403]

Thanks for all the responses. I have no idea what he plans on doing with the rest of the montly stipend. I know that he and dd have not made an agreement in respect to that, maybe that havent' discussed or maybe she hasn't said what he said he would do with what is leftover of the allowance. Regardless of anything, if the allowance is not enough I will, within reason, cover the rest. I, initially, was not aware that when they spoke about doing this he expected to have me pay him back 1/2. When he sent me a text, I simply text him back and let him know that I will save dd's money for ds' since their expenses will be more as the cost of college and things go up. And if you want to know the whole truth, I was offended. I have put plenty of time, effort and money in the college experience so far with application fees, visiting colleges, I have paid the fees so far for the school, deposits for place in the school, deposit for the dorms, orientation fees etc. Have I paid 1/2? No, but more since he will not be helping with ds's I will be paying all of their portion of the first two years as agreed and part the 3rd and 4th years. I honestly do believe that dad went into this thinking that he will recoup some of his money from me, without telling me til about 3 months later. I would have preferred he keep the bill for himself and just pay a share without all of this. Yes, it is a great gift, but at some point it has turned into a gift I better be thankful for for the rest of my lasting days. Am I happy that I can keep the cash in the bank for a little while longer and that it takes a certain amount of pressure off of me..yes. But, I am not so sure fighting/arguing with him is worth it at all to me. I wasn't involved in the beginning and now there are all kinds of stipulations I have to abide by, what I am supposed to do.

If it is something fishy, hopefully karma will be kind and not include my dd. I can say that in my personal dealings with dad, anything is possible. He is their sponsor, by divorce decree he is supposed to pay anything medical above the deductible. He has not ever done so, its not worth it to me to battle with him. Last year I found out that I had overpaid a few times to the dr and the dentist and Tricare sent the overpayment, well over 300.00 to him in his name as the sponsor. I only found out that he got it because I got a statement from the dentist. When I asked he just said yeah he got it but he cashed it. So, I left it at that. He pays the same amount of c/s as he did when we divorced 10 years ago, I have never returned for an increase or anything...again not worth what was involved. If the truth be known, I stopped arguing and fighting with him years and years ago. He has done some pretty rotten things but hey, it is his conscience. I was hoping that this time it wouldnt' turn into holding it over her head type of thing that they would work together and find a solution.

I told dd last night if this is going to continue to be a problem, plan on looking for what scholarships she can to stretch money out, do not use her savings account for frivilous things and be done with it. He can stop it at any time or change it at any time. I don't want to hear anymore. She has to decide if its o.k. for him to micromanage her college days, and she has to understand that it is a GOOD thing to not have to worry about the bulk of expenses, the monthly stipend is just not worth fighting over, because it is HIS money and he can do with it as he chooses. She doesn't get a say, she has to thankful for what she is getting because it will mean she does not have to work except on Christmas break/spring break.

I have not ever said that dad shouldn't set boundaries or that dd should listen and be thankful, she should be. That has been determined. When you are stuck in the middle listening to the greif though, you realize that both of them are bull headed and both of them think they are right or know it all and then somehow they turn it in to a 'tell dd that I said and what are you going to do about dd' and dd is crabby and unkind to everyone here and then add in that she wants me to tell her WHAT to do and I won't and we argue because I am not supportive. Its a mess, a hot mess as another posted. Sure is. Wish I had never even heard of the GI Bill before today, its just not worth the hassle at ALL.

But thanks again..I needed to vent because I can't say out loud what I want to. DH said last night he would sit dd down and discuss with her what is going on and see if he can see what is being said and done. His feeling at this point is that they need to work it out but she and her dad have to make their expectations CLEAR to us what we need to do financially because she can't think we are going to cover costs to the nail salon and he can't expect us cover him every time he gets mad and withholds funds.

Kelly

 

[kellyg403]

And this is the reason, OP, that my friend never took anything from her DD's father. Then he couldn't expect his butt to be kissed.

Call me crazy, but this guy is the kid's father, right? If he were still married to the kid's mother he would be expected to pay for her college education or as much of it as he could afford, right?

So why is he expecting everyone to kiss his butt for doing what he is supposed to be doing? DH & I couldn't have kids, but if we had been able to have children, both of us would have expected paying for college...or at least whatever portion of it we could afford...without having the kid grovel at our feet.

I would have preferred, and was planning, on not getting the half he said he would pay. I figured I would plan for the whole amount, dd would work on getting scholarships and if he gave any money back or paid the school anything I would just end up lucky. I didn't 'expect' anything from him because I know better really. So I planned accordingly. With him, as the adult, I prefer not to ask him for anything. The kids do not want because I don't argue with him or beg him for anything or constantly take him back to court. I can use the money I would use for court in better ways. I have no desire to argue and fight about money when I know that regardless of what he thinks, I will decide if I want to pay for all the things and the kids and I already have discussed college for years. They understand my expectations of them, it won't be a free ride, they will HAVE to invest energy into higher education, I won't do it all for them.

He, right now, is caught up in 'all the sacrifices' he is making. I understand all that..I make sacrifices for the kids too and I know that eventually they will see that there were plenty of times I made them. I don't expect them to fall to the floor and kiss my butt for doing it, I do it because I want them to have a good life, the best possible start to the future and be responsible people when it comes time to have a family and take care of themselves. When I don't have to support them and their children I figure thats where I will get my thanks. We just are coming at this from two different angles. And honestly, it was bound to happen because I am a mom and he is a dad and we think differently.

Kelly

 

[kellyg403]

Exactly. However, the one thing we do know is that the only use of that money is for expenses incurred during a college education. I'm not sure what you think he's doing with "his half?"

I am going to hold out hope that he is going to use the extra 650.00 to put in a bank account to help with some of the expenses for ds's when the time comes. Maybe he will, maybe he won't as he says he won't.

At this point, I am in who cares mode. It really, honestly does NOT matter to me at all if he uses it for himself or uses it for something else. Its really on him to make the decision or find out what he needs to do. The only thing I am concerned about is if he does put that extra somewhere and uses it that dd does not have to pay it back. My dh did make a point that if he does keep the 650.00 for whatever, it would be just about the 1/2 he wants me to give him in total by the end of the school year. So, maybe he is looking at it like that? I did tell him that I would like a credit towards the half for the fees I have paid, the dorm and everything, the computer/printer she needs that we have bought, dorm supplies etc factored in that since I did it soley on my own. If he is willing to give me credit, then in the end it would be about 7500.00 my share of the year tuition expense.

Kelly

 

[kellyg403]

He has 10 years to use it. He could use it for himself, or for another member of his family in that time. Or he doesn't have to use it at all.

I mean, none of us know his financial situation or his ethics, but do people really think he'd risk committing fraud against the government of the United States of America and losing everything he's worked for, for what, $5K and some change per year for a few years? After spending at least 10 years of his life serving in the military? I think it's a stretch. But maybe I'm just not as cynical as some of you seem to be.

Heck, if I was going to risk everything, it'd have to be for a heck of a lot more than that.

Unfortunately, he has had to pay back the gov't before. One of our ds's was very sick for a long time. He had to have lung surgery at Walter Reed in DC and the kids and I lived in NC and he lived in Alabama. After it was all said and done, I got a letter from the Army saying that they had paid out travel expenses, hotel bill and per diem for having to travel from NC to DC. I didn't receive that money and called told them I didn't receive it. Turns out, he did and had submitted expenses to them as if he had paid for our hotel etc. He could not produce receipts for what he claimed so he had to pay it back and trust me that was a really banner day for me. He was so mad that four days later he sent me a certified eviction notice, which he couldn't do but it made him feel better to 'threaten' me. So two months later, I was moved into a rental apartment and let him have the house. Didn't fight, didn't argue, didn't respond at all, just let him know 30 days prior to moving out it was all his. Dad, honestly, has still is mad at me over an issue of senior protraits. I purchased the package I could afford and bought enough for my family and his mom. I sent him an email with a link to purchase more if there were people he would like to send a photo too. I felt really bad about doing that, but at the time and the expense of the photos, I really honestly could not afford all of his family and mine. Sr year has been very expensive. I had to allocate money where I could in the best possible way. I did purchase all the announcements for his family and mine and did include a photo but not the sr photo. Dh and I provided everything for the grad party after graduation that he and his family attended. I do feel like I have been kind in several ways. I try very hard not to make everything a 'financial' issue but he ALWAYS does. He has NO clue how much time and energy a sr year takes. Or the years before. Really, I feel in some ways blood, sweat and tears count for something!
Kelly

 

[HeatherFeather]

As a military veteran who has used the GI Bill to fund my education, maybe I can offer a little clarity as to how things worked, at least for me. I went ahead and registered for my classes and paid my tuition ahead of time. Then I submitted my paperwork to the VA so they could make sure I was taking the right classes. Once school started, I received a direct deposit to my bank account of a little over $1000 every month. I had to go online though and certify each month that I was still a full time student. I think the $$$ is higher now per month but that is how it worked for me when I used it 2003-2005 and in 2007.

No money was every paid to the college directly except by me.

 

[kellyg403]

As a military veteran who has used the GI Bill to fund my education, maybe I can offer a little clarity as to how things worked, at least for me. I went ahead and registered for my classes and paid my tuition ahead of time. Then I submitted my paperwork to the VA so they could make sure I was taking the right classes. Once school started, I received a direct deposit to my bank account of a little over $1000 every month. I had to go online though and certify each month that I was still a full time student. I think the $$$ is higher now per month but that is how it worked for me when I used it 2003-2005 and in 2007.

No money was every paid to the college directly except by me.

This is good to know. I had wondered if the deposits I have already paid would be paid back to dd or to her dad? From reading the website it appears he will actually receive that credit even though he did not pay them. So, in the end I do think I will call the number listed on the website and get all the particulars. This morning I received a text saying that dd needs her own bank account because he will not transfer funds to an account that has my name on it. She isn't 18 until July and when we got her bank account I was under the impression that she couldn't have a bank account without someone over 18. So today we are going to find out what we need to do in that area.

Kelly

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

Call me crazy, but this guy is the kid's father, right? If he were still married to the kid's mother he would be expected to pay for her college education or as much of it as he could afford, right?

Bolding mine.
Just wanted to comment that if the parents were still married there would be no legal requirement or expectation of the parents to pay for one cent of a college education. While it is nice, once that child hits 18 and graduates high school the education requirements end. It is only divorced parents that have it written into a divorce decree that have any sort of legal obligation to pay to educate their children past high school.

Good luck OP. I don't envy you your position.

 

[golfgal]

I would tell your ex you will gladly pay 1/2 of what ever HE gives your DD out of his OWN pocket for college if he agrees to pay YOU 1/2 of what you have spent and since the GI money isn't coming out of his pocket in any way, shape or form, you are good there. Then send him a bill for half of what you put into it.

I still think your DD should suck it up and kiss his feet. She is getting 4 years of college for $10,000. You can't even go to a community college for that. She needs to realize that. I think, given your information about how she has never really had to handle money, I think I would make her take student loans for the rest, have her pay interest while in college, pay on the loans for a couple years AFTER college and THEN if she has been responsible, pay them off for her--or give her the equivalent for a down payment on a house. It will help her learn to handle money AND give her a good credit rating to start her adult life.

 

[Briarmom]

As a military veteran who has used the GI Bill to fund my education, maybe I can offer a little clarity as to how things worked, at least for me. I went ahead and registered for my classes and paid my tuition ahead of time. Then I submitted my paperwork to the VA so they could make sure I was taking the right classes. Once school started, I received a direct deposit to my bank account of a little over $1000 every month. I had to go online though and certify each month that I was still a full time student. I think the $$$ is higher now per month but that is how it worked for me when I used it 2003-2005 and in 2007.

No money was every paid to the college directly except by me.

This is so strange. I wonder why it's so different for me.
I paid for my first semester (last winter) because I was waiting on the paper work. But then the University got their money they sent me a refund (of my payment). From then on, I've had no monetary dealings with the University whatsoever. I have to go in and fill out a little form for every semester, and then the government sends them money. That's it. We never get any access to the money at all.

 

[kellyg403]

So, I called both the VA and the college registrars office this morning and got all the information so that I could make sure that I knew what was going on. I was very surprised!

1. DD's entitlement is a max payout for classes of $2163 per semester based on full time attendance. The total cost for her classes per her schedule is a bit more, so I will cover that.
2. I can pay, during orientation, the 1/2 of the semester and they will file paperwork with the VA for actual total remaining cost for the semester. I will not have to send him the money. The college is required to send 'actual' figures to VA in order to receive the check.
3. The amount paid to the college will be deducted from dd's full entitlement until there is no money left of 36 months whichever comes first.
4. She will have to reapply each semester and verify once a month she is a full time/passing student to continue receiving the benefits.
5. The stipend is for living expenses, i.e. the dorm etc. I will have to pay the dorm fees in total up front for the semester or make a payment plan.

I have an appointment in the morning with DD at the VA here in town and the lady is going to look up all the information for dd and give her the particulars and I am not entitled to the information. At that point, I will know 100% what my total OOP costs will be.

Thanks for letting me vent. This was the most logical thing to do, I was thinking with too much emotion to do the logical thing...get the correct information~

Kelly

 

[kellyg403]

This is so strange. I wonder why it's so different for me.
I paid for my first semester (last winter) because I was waiting on the paper work. But then the University got their money they sent me a refund (of my payment). From then on, I've had no monetary dealings with the University whatsoever. I have to go in and fill out a little form for every semester, and then the government sends them money. That's it. We never get any access to the money at all.

Evidently there is a different types of GI bill benefits. Which may have been the issue.

Kelly

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

So, I called both the VA and the college registrars office this morning and got all the information so that I could make sure that I knew what was going on. I was very surprised!

1. DD's entitlement is a max payout for classes of $2163 per semester based on full time attendance. The total cost for her classes per her schedule is a bit more, so I will cover that.
2. I can pay, during orientation, the 1/2 of the semester and they will file paperwork with the VA for actual total remaining cost for the semester. I will not have to send him the money. The college is required to send 'actual' figures to VA in order to receive the check.
3. The amount paid to the college will be deducted from dd's full entitlement until there is no money left of 36 months whichever comes first.
4. She will have to reapply each semester and verify once a month she is a full time/passing student to continue receiving the benefits.
5. The stipend is for living expenses, i.e. the dorm etc. I will have to pay the dorm fees in total up front for the semester or make a payment plan.

I have an appointment in the morning with DD at the VA here in town and the lady is going to look up all the information for dd and give her the particulars and I am not entitled to the information. At that point, I will know 100% what my total OOP costs will be.

Thanks for letting me vent. This was the most logical thing to do, I was thinking with too much emotion to do the logical thing...get the correct information~

Kelly

Calling was very smart! Now you have all the information and its not being lost in the translation. Good job!