Stopped considering DVC this week. Anyone else?

[RoseGold]

Our preferred resort is the Poly, and with an end year in 2060 I don't want to be stuck paying annual dues well into my retirement when our kids have flown the nest and DH and I want to explore the world outside of the "World". If Disney keeps finding ways to undercut the value of resale, I could be saddled in my 80s with a contract I don't want and can't sell.

Disney is pretty much out of ways to undercut resale in particular. However, they seem to be getting creative about undercutting Disney in general.

Assuming things return to normal, Poly will still be a phenomenal location with incredible theming and a lot of nostalgia, and by then the charts will be looking much better. Poly is an awesome contract if you plan to sell in 10-20 years, or, well, pre-Covid, that's the argument I would have made.

 

[MomOTwins]

Disney is pretty much out of ways to undercut resale in particular. However, they seem to be getting creative about undercutting Disney in general.

Assuming things return to normal, Poly will still be a phenomenal location with incredible theming and a lot of nostalgia, and by then the charts will be looking much better. Poly is an awesome contract if you plan to sell in 10-20 years, or, well, pre-Covid, that's the argument I would have made.

Yes--that's kind of what mean (the part about undercutting Disney in general). If on-site benefits are really non-existent then because they keep cutting things like MDE and EMH, then I suspect not as many people will want to pay to buy DVC because those looking for a lower-cost alternative will just stay offsite rather than buying DVC.

But then again, maybe Poly is the better deal because I could probably at least get some value for it in 20 years even if it sells for a lot less than what I paid, whereas resorts like Boulder Ridge or Beach club would have no value.

 

[RoseGold]

But then again, maybe Poly is the better deal because I could probably at least get some value for it in 20 years even if it sells for a lot less than what I paid, whereas resorts like Boulder Ridge or Beach club would have no value.

Pre-Covid, I would have argued that the DVC trend is towards giant resorts in mediocre locations with escalating point charts. That is going to make Poly look even better over time, as the charts inflate and the locations stay mediocre. You know, like how Beach Club and BW have crazy high valuations now for such little contract left. At least pre-Covid, renting Poly was always in demand. It was a great contract for that. But 2020 has shown we know nothing.

Right now, who knows. I can picture a lot of people who were on the fence selling now. So maybe be watching the listings?

 

[MJ NH]

Disney is the hot girl that ruins your car, sleeps with your friend but you can’t quit her, IMO.

 

[Eric Smith]

I don't blame anyone for not waiting to jump in, but MAN, DVC prices make no sense! WDW has been either closed or very low capacity for almost a year now so you would think the resale prices would crater - but no. Those have held steady and even gone up. Direct prices also just went up on "sold out" properties. As for me, I would not have jumped in in the last year or even now, but I am glad I am an owner and no way am I selling. Still eagerly looking forward to our annual trip NMW Disney does.

People who can afford DVC are likely on the upper end of the economic spectrum and likely have saved money over the past year due to things shut down during the pandemic (restaurants, travel.....etc). They're looking for somewhere to spend their money.

 

[fumanchu2488]

OP hit on something that doesn’t get touched on a lot from a DVC perspective. The most expensive part in the long term of owning DVC is not the initial purchase price, it isn’t even the annual dues, it is visiting WDW for the next 30-40 years.

Us DVC members actually have some control on costs as it relates to what we have already paid and tracking dues. However, we have no impact on the cost that a WDW vacation will be post COVID or 5 years from now. Pete said it in a recent video but I think post COVID we are going to see very significant increases in park passes, ticketed events, fast passes and more. I wouldn’t be surprised if the AP system here gets overhauled in the near future as well. The cost for our vacations (even with DVC) will probably be close to double what it was in 2019 in 2022. That is what scares me the most as a DVC owner. Outpacing inflation and all other travel alternatives could ruin demand.

 

[Lumpy1106]

THEORETICALLY, our dues should go down with the cut to DME. We have in fact been paying twice; once for the parking lot, and again for the DME buses. Nobody ever uses both on the same trip - do they? Dues are actual costs, not Disney costs. If the money is not spent on DME, it won't show up in our dues.

I know, I know, don't go spending it. Whatever decrease we see will likely be pretty small - but still...

 

[princesslover]

THEORETICALLY, our dues should go down with the cut to DME. We have in fact been paying twice; once for the parking lot, and again for the DME buses. Nobody ever uses both on the same trip - do they? Dues are actual costs, not Disney costs. If the money is not spent on DME, it won't show up in our dues.

I know, I know, don't go spending it. Whatever decrease we see will likely be pretty small - but still...

They will probably just add a “Covid charge”for the hand sanitizers and plexiglass barriers.

 

[Deb & Bill]

If they don't come back with Florida Resident Annual passes, we'll sell our DVC contracts.

 

[ITGirl50]

What troubles me is resale. Our preferred resort is the Poly, and with an end year in 2060 I don't want to be stuck paying annual dues well into my retirement when our kids have flown the nest and DH and I want to explore the world outside of the "World". If Disney keeps finding ways to undercut the value of resale, I could be saddled in my 80s with a contract I don't want and can't sell.

I totally understand this. We now own 4 resorts and 925 points. I added on right before the big announcement and would not have a couple of weeks later. We started buying in 2007 and have been adding on so when we retire we can have long stays. We have been buying DVC instead of a vacation property that we have to maintain.

We have more than broken even on the first three contracts. Our stays cost the maintenance fees. If I lose 100% resale value on all 3 of contracts and if I can’t or don’t want to pay the MFs when I’m really old I will just stop paying the fees and DVD can take them back. Who cares at the point.

I need 8-10 years to break even on my most recent purchase (depending on the point cost of the stays). So if I can get that out of it, that will work for me.

 

[deedubb]

When I purchased, I thought it was a no-brainer, and I don't think differently today. Unlike other time shares that lock you in forever, to the point where you can't give them away when you want to get rid of it, there will always be demand for DVC. If you think you will continue to visit Disney despite all the recent changes, then you should still consider DVC. When you're done with it, there will be someone in line to buy it. It may not be worth as much when the expiry date of the contract gets closer, but you will still find a buyer.

Yes, you can rent and avoid the initial cost of purchasing a contract, but then:
1) if using a broker and looking for high demand resorts (eg. EPCOT resort at Christmas/NYE), then you rely on the broker having an owner with points at the 11 month mark, and this is often difficult. I have experienced this first hand.
2) if renting directly from an owner, you run the risk of being screwed. There is nothing worse than the anxiety of hoping the owner doesn't cancel your reservation and screw you over.

 

[5th gate dreamers]

So we are renting points for a grand villa BLT stay this November. We are very excited. We are able to get the whole family in there to celebrate a 70th birthday!

It got me thinking of looking into a DVC purchase.

Not after this week though. And it's not just DME and EMH. Those are just the continuation of cuts, not the end. Fast Pass is unlikely to return in it's previous form. It will most likely come back with some sort of paid option. Don't get me wrong, the previous version needed an overhaul, but it was free (sorry, not "free", but included in the cost of DVC).

I just don't want to lock into a lifetime of Disney trips at these high prices, not knowing what pluses or minuses are coming next.

Renting may cost more in the long run, but it seems like that is a much better option for us, with the future of the on-site benefits unknown.

all of that makes me think you arent a candidate for dvc ownership. those are legitimate potential concerns. i wouldnt advise entering into a 50 year relationship with disney until you have more concrete answers on your concerns or no longer care about those concerns. its the same as picking a partner...are they a right fit for me, do i see us being together decades in the future, etc. renting costs more, but comes without the risks of ownership...same as renting a home instead of owning it.

 

[5th gate dreamers]

We are not owners but ALMOST bought about a month ago.

For our family, we still want to go to Disney pretty regularly for the next 15-20 or so years (while my kids are still living with us or college age). We know there will be more cutbacks and nickel and diming (paid fastpass feels just around the corner), but I also look forward to improvements that are coming down the pipeline as well (new attractions; the new cruise ships we'll want to try with a pre-cruise resort stay etc.)

What troubles me is resale. Our preferred resort is the Poly, and with an end year in 2060 I don't want to be stuck paying annual dues well into my retirement when our kids have flown the nest and DH and I want to explore the world outside of the "World". If Disney keeps finding ways to undercut the value of resale, I could be saddled in my 80s with a contract I don't want and can't sell.

On the other hand, if we buy one of the 2042 resorts, we're basically guaranteeing that we are just prepaying vacations with no opportunity to regain some of our initial investment by selling the contract in 10/20 years. That might be safer if the resale market is kaput at the time, but if not, we'd regret not going with the Poly, especially since current resale prices at tour preferred 2042 resorts (e.g. BCV) not being all that different than PVB.

dont worry about if you decide you dont want to go to disney anymore, and you wont be "saddled". you can always rent. one of the reasons we bought is because of the flexibility to not go. we are disney freaks, but actually only go every 3-4 years. we rent our points when we dont want to go. we didnt have to decide "do we really want to go to disney for the next 50 years". we already knew that we would probably go 15ish times over the life of the contract. we use our points profits to help offset vacation costs in non disney years. you will always profit yearly if you rent 100% of your points, so dont worry about getting tired of disney or being saddled when you are 80...neither problem exists.

 

[DVCKing]

As hard as some of the changes are for us to swallow, I think this is just Disney dealing with shut downs. (Same as all business models have changed) I’m sure Disney will return many of these perks and more. It will take time though! The world needs magic now more than ever. I will hold my contract and continue to countdown to my next stay just as always.

 

[Marionnette]

As hard as some of the changes are for us to swallow, I think this is just Disney dealing with shut downs. (Same as all business models have changed) I’m sure Disney will return many of these perks and more. It will take time though! The world needs magic now more than ever. I will hold my contract and continue to countdown to my next stay just as always.

I disagree. I think that this is Disney using COVID as an excuse to make cuts. They didn't suspend EMH, they eliminated it. They aren't reducing the number of DME runs, they're getting rid of it in 2022. They've steadily reduced park hours, increased for-pay after hours events, cordoned off prime fireworks viewing areas for dessert party patrons - all before COVID hit. Chapek is on record as saying that he wanted to reduce entertainment. So goodbye Citizens of Main Street and Hollywood plus the Grand Floridian Society Orchestra. Blame it on COVID but don't expect them back in a post-COVID Disney World.

I think about selling at least once a week but I hold onto my points because they were purchased so long ago that it's cheaper to stay on points than it is to stay in a Value Resort...prices have risen that much! I certainly won't be buying more points in today's climate.

 

[Carol_]

THEORETICALLY, our dues should go down with the cut to DME. We have in fact been paying twice; once for the parking lot, and again for the DME buses. Nobody ever uses both on the same trip - do they? Dues are actual costs, not Disney costs. If the money is not spent on DME, it won't show up in our dues.

I know, I know, don't go spending it. Whatever decrease we see will likely be pretty small - but still...

We use both DME and parking in the same trip regularly. Family comes from lots of places in different ways. We’re all on the contracts.

 

[mamaofsix]

OP, you're not alone. We were also seriously considering a large purchase and this month completely changed our minds. The math has over-ruled what our hearts were wanting.

It now makes zero sense to stay DVC, or on property at all, with none of the perks. Even renting DVC points to stay on property doesn't add up for us. We normally stay offsite, and the only reason we were considering DVC was to get the EMH, an early fp booking window, free magic bands, ME, etc. But now? No way.

We are planning on going to Disney next spring and would need a grand villa for the size of our family. To rent a DVC grand villa would cost between $6,000-$14,000 for the week. If we bought resale DVC at one of the cheaper resorts (ie: OKW), taking into account buy-in cost per annum and dues, that number equals out to about $4,000-$10,000 for the week.

To rent a 6 bedroom pool home on a beautiful resort, 5 minutes drive from Disney gates: $2,500.00 for the week.

It's literally a no brainer. No way would we pay an exponentially higher rate to have zero perks. If we have to rent a car or uber anyway, I can go and enjoy Disney just fine from my luxury pool villa for a fraction of the cost. If they bring back perks, we may change our minds in the future. But, not as things stand right now.

 

[fumanchu2488]

OP, you're not alone. We were also seriously considering a large purchase and this month completely changed our minds. The math has over-ruled what our hearts were wanting.

It now makes zero sense to stay DVC, or on property at all, with none of the perks. Even renting DVC points to stay on property doesn't add up for us. We normally stay offsite, and the only reason we were considering DVC was to get the EMH, an early fp booking window, free magic bands, ME, etc. But now? No way.

We are planning on going to Disney next spring and would need a grand villa for the size of our family. To rent a DVC grand villa would cost between $6,000-$14,000 for the week. If we bought DVC, taking into account buy-in cost per annum and dues, that number equals out to about $4,000-$10,000 for the week.

To rent a 6 bedroom pool home on a beautiful resort, 5 minutes drive from Disney gates: $2,500.00 for the week.

It's literally a no brainer. No way would we pay an exponentially higher rate to have zero perks. If we have to rent a car or uber anyway, I can go and enjoy Disney just fine from my luxury pool villa for a fraction of the cost. If they bring back perks, we may change our minds in the future. But, not as things stand right now.

Well said. Disney has to put significant perks back in the system for not only DVC members but anyone staying on site. If they don’t, your approach may become the norm. Also, I know I can get better accommodations than DVC or cash at the similar price at the Hilton, JW Marriott or Waldorf. If they don’t incentivize the bubble they will lose a lot of business to off site guests.
And developers are seeing the trend and looking to take advantage. Look at this that will cater to larger high end accommodations:

https://attractionsmagazine.com/cen...ion-evermore-orlando-resort-open-next-disney/

 

[mamaofsix]

Well said. Disney has to put significant perks back in the system for not only DVC members but anyone staying on site. If they don’t, your approach may become the norm. Also, I know I can get better accommodations than DVC or cash at the similar price at the Hilton, JW Marriott or Waldorf. If they don’t incentivize the bubble they will lose a lot of business to off site guests.
And developers are seeing the trend and looking to take advantage. Look at this that will cater to larger high end accommodations:

https://attractionsmagazine.com/cen...ion-evermore-orlando-resort-open-next-disney/

That resort looks amazing!

We chose Windsor Hills for our next trip - it's a closer drive to 3 out of 4 parks than OKW or SSR! I think more and more people are going to start heading off property now. Disney has made a series of very poor business decisions...

 

[tline35]

The math has over-ruled what our hearts were wanting.

Agreed. Take the emotion out of the decision.
We almost bought DVC 15 years ago, when it really was a good deal. But we passed, and never regretted it. We have had 15 years of great family trips and memories, at WDW ... and not at WDW. We found several vacations spots we love, just as much as WDW.

That's the point. Memorable family vacations can happen ANYWHERE and you don't need an expensive time-share DVC to create memories, not even at Disney.

DVC is a contract for annual points towards resort stays. Thats it. No AP discount, No DME, no EMH, no lounges ... none of that is in the DVC contract. So buying DVC as if those were in the contract, incorrectly impacts your decision-making.