Still no duck?

DVC Sadie said:
My DH and I would not have a problem if WDW stated that the food is going to be "standard" or slightly above standard park fare with few exclusions.

However since WDW and others tout "World Class Dining" then they should be able to continue to deliver or not advertise as being up to par as other Top Destinations, and if they choose not to then they should also advertise that fact.

People from NY, New Orleans, Las Vegas (just to name a few) or other places who eat "world class dining" regularly have every reason to not only be disappointed but to be able to voice their opinions without being called snobs or insensitive.

If someone travels to WDW expecting chain style restaurant dining then they will not be disappointed but if they are expecting what is advertised then they may be disappointed.

I must have missed WDW's claim/advertisement of "World Class Dining":confused3 We don't expect it in a theme park atmosphere and are happy with the "good, well prepared" food @ most of the restaurants.

The menus are available for perusal ahead of time, along with reviews; if you do a bit of planning; you should be able to pick a suitable venue to meet your expectations.

BTW, LeCellier started out Feb of '05 as a signature restaturant, prompting our family to try the Yauchtsman, since both required 2 credits on the DP. We found staff to be pretentious and felt it is over-rated.

Of course this is based on our PERSONAL opinion. Even in the outpost of Pittsburgh, we manage to scrounge up a few superb dining spots and we've been fortunate enough to travel and experience many fine meals but don't expect to find it @ WDW & are surprised that it is available, even in dribs & drabs.

Here comes the opinion part again but, IMO the menus have standardized & the waitstaff's service has declined in many instances since the DP originated. For less than $40/pp/per day can you really expect anything different? They are in this both to make money & give the guests a satisfying experience...what more can you honestly expect?
 
You may not have seen their claims in ads you've seen but WDW certainly has pumped their chest over their 'fine dining' options in the past. Besides it isn't just Park fare that we're talking about. It's Resort restaurants and Epcot (which certainly does promote a fine dining image) that is now under scrutiny.

As to what can we honestly expect, well, I for one, expect Disney to push service and quality to the limit. We're not talking six flags here. We're not talking Comcast, we're talking Disney. A forward thinking Company that relishes the reputation of being better than the norm. Disney brought in world class chef's at CG, AP, FF, V&A's, Jiko, etc. and staffed these restaurants with the best of the best in service and kitchen staff. They expanded boundaries with food preperation and innovation to a degree that some restaurants were getting 4 star ratings. They (at least at one time) employed more sommoliers than anyone else anywhere. This doesn't sound like a Company aspiring to serve 'Park food'. So it's no wonder that folks who recognized, patronized and raved about such things are now dissappointed...
pirate:
 
Lewisc said:
A better case can be made for attacking the changes at CRT. The price went up, to both dining and non dining guests, but the food went down. Disney justified the changes with free photos.

Yes. I agree with this. But the guests who choose CRT do so for the atmosphere and character experience, not for the food. Used to be if you were not overwhelmingly interested in the experience, you could get a decent meal there AND experience the show. Now, you had better be out for the show because the food isn't worth the price. As long as the show delivers, they'll still fill the seats in the castle at the inflated price because the show was and still is the main draw.
 
keishashadow said:
I must have missed WDW's claim/advertisement of "World Class Dining":confused3
No, you're correct. That apparently was something someone made up to make the point they were trying to make sound legitimate. Disney has never, in any way shape or form, asserted that their table-service restaurants were all world-class. Never.

BTW, LeCellier started out Feb of '05 as a signature restaturant
I don't remember this; AFAIK, it was Chefs de France and Coral Reef that started out as signature restaurants, and when they were left empty, that was powerful enough feedback to prompt Disney to change them from signature restuarants to regular table-service restaurants. So those two restaurants were deliberately downgraded from "world-class" because we-the-guests didn't substantiate the need for so many signature restaurants.

Anyway, I hope you folks dying for duck get some someday. It's been real. :wave2:
 

Calling other posters liars is hardly the best way to make your point. :sad2:

Pehaps this is local but Disney's ads in Florida have very much included the fine dining angle particularily when trying to get us to buy annual passes.
pirate:
 
Chefs wasn't originally a participating restaurant but was always one credit. Coral Reef was a signature restaurant in 2005. Le Cellier was originally signature but changed to one credit when the other WS restaurants were added. Le Cellier changed to one credit early on, I'm not sure how many guests actually paid 2 credits.


bicker said:
I don't remember this; AFAIK, it was Chefs de France and Coral Reef that started out as signature restaurants, and when they were left empty, that was powerful enough feedback to prompt Disney to change them from signature restuarants to regular table-service restaurants. So those two restaurants were deliberately downgraded from "world-class" because we-the-guests didn't substantiate the need for so many signature restaurants.

Anyway, I hope you folks dying for duck get some someday. It's been real. :wave2:
 
Lewisc said:
Chefs wasn't originally a participating restaurant but was always one credit. Coral Reef was a signature restaurant in 2005. Le Cellier was originally signature but changed to one credit when the other WS restaurants were added. Le Cellier changed to one credit early on, I'm not sure how many guests actually paid 2 credits.

Actually, we elected to try Yachtsman in lieu of LeCellier exactly for that reason, week before Pres. day '05. Wish we had kept our date @ LeCellier.

Do know that it was back to 1 credit for next trip in early Dec. '05.
 
Peter Pirate 2 said:
Calling other posters liars is hardly the best way to make your point. :sad2:

Pehaps this is local but Disney's ads in Florida have very much included the fine dining angle particularily when trying to get us to buy annual passes.
pirate:

So, they have advertised that all table service is "fine dining"? Or that fine/world class/whatever dining is available? Because the first, of course, would be a complete lie if Disney ever said that. The second is still true, as there are plenty of signature restaurants on-site. Not sure what your point is.
 
Peter Pirate is absolutely correct. Disney once was a true culinary wasteland. Then WDW management clearly decided to do something about it. At last count, WDW had employed 350 sommeliers. That is not the hiring pattern of a company that is determined to serve disappointing theme park food, IMO.

WDW started the Food & Wine Festival clearly with the intention of attracting a different type of patron -- one who appreciates fine dining and wine. Articles in Disney Magazine and other press touted that WDW had become a foodie destination.

DH and I took the bait. We were suitably impressed. WDW instituted the Disney Dining Experience, created the largest wine list of South African wines in the nation, sent chefs and sommeliers around the world to find foods and wines that would be unique and interesting to people like us. It seemed like WDW was bringing to fine dining the same dedication to pleasing customers that it had already demonstrated in things like theme park design.

If you think WDW didn't deliberately go after the fine dining market, then you don't know Disney marketing. Have you ever been over to the Magnolia golf course? It's like Palm Beach over there. All these tall tanned elegant golf pros. You'd never know that MK was less than a 1/2 mile away. Clearly, WDW marketing knows how to appeal to a wide variety of people and works hard at doing so. For some time, the middle class family with two kids and a dog has not been the sole target of WDW's marketing schemes.

WDW did not say that every one of their restaurants would be a fine dining experience, but they certainly tried hard to attract talented chefs and sommeliers and to attract adult lovers of food and wine.

With the DDP, that has changed. You simply can't have a set menu price and not eliminate the most pricey and highest quality items. The economics won't work any other way.

For those of us who had begun to plan regular vacations to WDW with food and wine (not theme parks!) in mind, the change is a disappointment. Funny thing is, I suspect we're not nearly as disappointed as some of the talented chefs and sommeliers who threw in their lot with Disney and are now probably wondering where they fit in with a limited streamlined menu and set price approach to dining.

DH and I discussed yesterday the fact that someone posted that there are about 500 places serving food at WDW. We counted up about 10-15 places we have traditionally patronized and enjoyed (not including Swan & Dolphin restaurants). With the most recent changes that number is now down to 5-6. People can say well confine yourselves to the signature restaurants and you'll be fine. But, previously we've also had delightful meals at Spoodles, Maya Grill, Chefs de France, Alfredo's, and other 1TS restaurants. One thing we really enjoyed was the dining variety available at WDW. There were fun and unique appetizers at Spoodles, Maya Grill actually used to have the large kernel corn and purple potatoes normally available only in Peru!! We used to marvel at what we could taste/find at WDW and attributed it to WDW's worldwide influence and buying power. But, when you're down to a small number of signature restaurants, that makes WDW indistinguishable from other resort destinations. The signature restaurants are great, but we can get about the same dining experience with a stay at an all-inclusive or on a luxury cruise. We enjoyed the immense variety of foods and wines at WDW -- and it seems to us that the variety and uniqueness are systematically being eliminated.

We're now at the point that it makes sense to look elsewhere for food/wine vacations. We're going to give the F&W Festival another try and after that we'll decide.

We're hopeful, but as DH says, "there is nothing so great at WDW that an MBA with a calculator can't mess it up!"

Thanks to Peter Pirate, DVCSadie and others. I'm with you!
 
Well said Elizabeth. :thumbsup2
 
DaisyD said:
ITA Elizabeth!

Thanks for the great post Elizabeth! :thumbsup2

I was starting to wonder if I had been dining in a different WDW than others here on the boards. ;)
 
Ditto on the good post sentiments Elizabeth... :thumbsup2

Sadly, people think because we're pro fine dining we're anti DDP. That isn't true, at least for me, but I do take exception to the DDP affecting what Disney offer's me. People can continue to call me elitist (or whatever) and continue to make statements like "this is the only way some families can eat at these finer restaurants"... fine, but don't you see that this is the point? You are no longer eating at 'those fine restaurants'. You're getting a weaker effort, a watered down version.
pirate:
 
Disney decided DDP is the best way to fill their restaurants. Several posters reported that Disney standardized the adult beverage menus at the bars. DDP doesn't include adult beverages. It sounds like the "bean counters" figured out that standardizing the menus result in efficiencies. Most of the standardization would have taken place without the DDP.

Very few restaurants will offer an entrée that costs 2-3X the cost of a typical entrée. The chef doesn't have a "blank check", DDP lowers the upper range. I'm one of the, few, DIS that would favor offering one or two "signature" menu items with an upcharge. Most posters don't want to be treated like second class guests. Charging extra for lobster makes sense to me. I wouldn't be happy if DDP offered chopped steak but had an upcharge for a strip steak.

The signature restaurants still offer fine dining. Bistro in EPCOT. blueZoo and Shula's in the Dolphin. Bicker is right, Disney has reduced the number of "fine dining" restaurants to meet the demand of the guests. The restaurant on the top of the Wyndham closed, not enough demand.

Guests are getting, and paying for, what they want.



Peter Pirate 2 said:
"this is the only way some families can eat at these finer restaurants"... fine, but don't you see that this is the point? You are no longer eating at 'those fine restaurants'. You're getting a weaker effort, a watered down version.
pirate:
 
Don't forget that Disney does rotate their chefs every few years (don't think it applies to the Epcot sub-contractors)...

@ least this is what I was told when I complained about the BW bakery not making their own doughnuts anymore (they use Krispy Kreme now) & verified by waitstaff when I inquired in June.

Perhaps this might account for the other than seasonal/price conscious changes...more of a creative difference?
 
FYI: I read in one of the trip reports, someone who ate a Jiko's on the free dining-- they spoke with the chef about why the firecracker duck appy wasn't on the menu anymore. The chef said it would return after free dining, because it was too much work to make for the high-volume orders they were getting during free dining-- too many people on the dining plan ordering whatever the most expensive thing on the menu to maximize their savings.
I'm just reporting what the OP said the chef said, as I thought it would of interest to this discussion.
 
Lewisc said:
Guests are getting, and paying for, what they want.


If you are on the DDP, I agree. Thirty eight dollars per person, per day is a good value for decent food at a medium priced restaurant. Throwing in a counterservice meal, breakfast and snack....it's all gravy and good value. However, if you are not on the plan and are paying OOP, the choices and quality at the mid-priced restaurants easily lose their allure.

I guess I go back to my original plan of action. Eat counter service, eat upscale or eat offsite. Avoid the mid-range restaurants. They're no longer offering creative quality but they are filled with patrons. So for those who like the food and like the price, it's a win-win. It's a win-win for WDW. It's not for me. And I guess there's not enough of "me" around for it to matter.
 
keishashadow said:
Don't forget that Disney does rotate their chefs every few years (don't think it applies to the Epcot sub-contractors)...

@ least this is what I was told when I complained about the BW bakery not making their own doughnuts anymore (they use Krispy Kreme now) & verified by waitstaff when I inquired in June.

Perhaps this might account for the other than seasonal/price conscious changes...more of a creative difference?

They don't purpsoely rotate their chefs. Some chefs have been at their positions for years. They come and go like any other place. Then someone applies for the job. I have a friend that works there. I heard about that donut chnage. And. I'm sure when there is a chef chnage, changes occur.
 
Lewisc said:
The signature restaurants still offer fine dining. Bistro in EPCOT. blueZoo and Shula's in the Dolphin. Bicker is right, Disney has reduced the number of "fine dining" restaurants to meet the demand of the guests. The restaurant on the top of the Wyndham closed, not enough demand.

Guests are getting, and paying for, what they want.

I just stayed at the Wyndahm. They have new owners and they are renovating that restaurant. The lounge is still open. Their other restaurant The Outback (not the chain) is very good.
 


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