Still battling DVC. World Passport Collection

[Daitcher]

We just got back from our first trip to WDW as DVC members, and while we were there I watched some snippets on the DVC cable channel and was interested to see that quite a lot of the marketing was aimed at encouraging people to buy into DVC because of all the places they could travel around the world. Several couples were interviewed talking about how they planned to travel to exotic destinations using their DVC points.

I certainly can say that one of the reasons that we bought into DVC was because of the lure of traveling to places like Hawaii, the Virgin Islands, etc. I was starting to feel a little foolish reading all the posts about how DVC doesn't make sense for people who don't plan to visit WDW a lot, but when I watched the marketing tactics on the DVC channel I remembered where I got the information about worldwide travel in the first place!

We'll be happy visiting WDW every two years (or more often if we can get good airfare for all 6 of us, or if they come up with a room for families with more than 4 but less than 8 people so we don't have to use up so many points on a two-bedroom ) but I hope the opportunity comes along for us to use the World Passport or Concierge Collection.

It is not deceptive advertising at all. You can visit all of those destinations using points. It just isn't that cost effective. You weren't a vicitim of deceptive advertising, you were a vicitim of your own lack of knowledge of a program YOU chose to buy into. There is nothing worse than people complaining about a program they bought into. Well, at least it feeds the resale market. We stay at timeshares all the time on cash and I get a good laugh at the people who don't know there own program. I find myself explaining to them how there program works and I don't even own it. The vast majority of timeshares today are on the up and up. They aren't trying to decieve or mislead. Do the research before buying into any program. There are no surprises with DVC. The program operates just like it is written.
This really isn't aimed at you by the way, shantay1008. Just my advice for what it is worth. ( not much )

DAVE

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

So, because of comments made by people on this board you no longer love Disney? I'm sorry...I guess I didn't know we were all representatives of the company.

You never did explain: Are you a DVC owner? Do you have some personal experiences regarding WC that you'd like to share? What is the purpose of you suddenly creating a user name such as the one you did, other than to stir things up a bit?

Just a "Phantom Menace" I guess.

 

[Daitcher]

Regardless of screen names, our likes and dislikes, the tone of our posts, etc., we are all entitled to post our views. It is the OP's job to sift through those views and see which make the most sense to them. This is what makes these boards so great. I wouldn't want to be a part of any forum where everyone agrees.

p.s. Hard stance to take when you disagree with Dean on timeshare issues. The guy knows his stuff.


DAVE

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

This is what makes these boards so great. I wouldn't want to be a part of any forum where everyone agrees.

Uh oh Dave...I think you just found something we can both agree on, what's up with that? Oh, yeah -- and the whole Dean thingy too.

 

[mydogdrew]

So, because of comments made by people on this board you no longer love Disney? I'm sorry...I guess I didn't know we were all representatives of the company.

You never did explain: Are you a DVC owner? Do you have some personal experiences regarding WC that you'd like to share? What is the purpose of you suddenly creating a user name such as the one you did, other than to stir things up a bit?

Just a "Phantom Menace" I guess.

Phantom PMenace is more like it.

 

[wingkng]

Something to consider is doing a little of both. You may want to do what I did. I started off owning at a Starwood Vacation Ownership property, which I bought from the developer. With it, you can trade internally with other Starwood timeshares (they are located in Orlando, Port St. Lucie, Myrtle Beach, Colorado, Palm Springs, Maui, Kauai, St. John, the Bahamnas, and Cancun). You can also use it and convert it to "Starpoints", which are points you can redeem for Starwood hotels (Sheraton, W, Westin, Four Points, the Luxury Collection, and soon, Le Meridien). The Starwood points program is the most flexible and useable in the industry. A third option is you can exchange it through the Interval International program for timeshares elsewhere.

Recently, I decided that a good complement is to purchase points in DVC. This way, I can plan on using it every other year, via banking and borrowing, to stay one week or more in a one or two bedroom villa inside Disney. I can also use it for a Disney cruise (although from what I've read, it is not the most cost-effective use of points).

My plan is to use DVC every other year, alternating with use of my Starwood timeshare every other year. The in between years that I am not using the Starwood timeshare will be converted to Starpoints, which I can use at my discretion. For example, this year, I converted my week to points, and was able to use it for a week stay in the Sheraton Maui.

I believe that you don't have to choose one or the other, especially if you have the money already set aside to "invest" in the timeshare experience. I am also a firm believer that timeshare is not for you if you have to finance it over 10 years.

 

[CarolA]

You can personally feel any way you wish, but others have the right to feel as they wish as well. My stmt was about when someone quotes info that they got from a source and then other start by saying they don't believe it or come up with other numbers but no backing from when their numbers come from. And from people telling others what's a reasonable II resort. If you disagree with someone, that's fine but when people start saying my way is the better way or what is a reasonable resort, then I have a problem with that.

In regards to my user name, here we go again. Why suggest I shouldn't be on this forum due to my user name? I used to love Disney very much but comments like that are why my user name is what it is. A few can spoil it for a lot.

Well, HOW could we run you off... You have posted a total of THREE times, but folks on here ran you off.

 

[used2LuvDisney]

Well, HOW could we run you off... You have posted a total of THREE times, but folks on here ran you off.

It's not worth it. For a forum that says it wants different opinions, you have a funny way of showing it. Now you see why people have PMed me instead of responding here. Now go ahead, have you fun at my expense. This will be my last post. Probably people who read this tread may never post because they may feel that the people on this forum may disagree with them and attack them for their comments.

 

[mydogdrew]

It's not worth it. For a forum that says it wants different opinions, you have a funny way of showing it. Now you see why people have PMed me instead of responding here. Now go ahead, have you fun at my expense. This will be my last post. Probably people who read this tread may never post because they may feel that the people on this forum may disagree with them and attack them for their comments.

I'm not going to post every time I disagree with someone. You simply have no credibility. In the unlikely event that you are in fact serious about all this - you sure have picked an odd topic to go to the mat over. The bottom line is that it makes no difference what percent trade out, it's just a lousy use of points. And really, no one is buying the PM thing.

 

[CarolA]

It's not worth it. For a forum that says it wants different opinions, you have a funny way of showing it. Now you see why people have PMed me instead of responding here. Now go ahead, have you fun at my expense. This will be my last post. Probably people who read this tread may never post because they may feel that the people on this forum may disagree with them and attack them for their comments.

I am sorry, my post was rude and normally I am not that bad, but.... you implied that you don't love Disney becasue of the boards. The one thing I have learned about message boards is the ONLY thing you can control is your reactions. If it's true that what people posted turned you off of Disney.... I feel bad for you. That's letting others dictate your responses. If it's not true then I just misunderstood.

 

[wintergreen]

Just thought I'd put forward another (rather unpopular, it seems) point of view. We bought into DVC b/c WDW is the only destination we travel to on a regular basis. We are not interested in any other timeshares b/c we rarely stay in any one place on vacation for an entire week (we have never even stayed for a full week at WDW). DVC works because reservations do not need to be made in weeklong increments. Because of our vacationing habits, we've also never traded into an II resort. HOWEVER, we have done a number of Concierge Collection and Disney Collection trades, all of which we have enjoyed greatly, and felt that the trades were well worth it. Our valuation methodology may be a little wacky, but it works for us, and we are very pleased with the way that we have been able to use our DVC points for a variety of different locations.

 

[Jenbear]

I bought DVC about a year and a half ago knowing I would not be using it all at WDW for 50 years. I looked at a lot of the World Passport Places and where I wanted to go, researched some of the costs etc and found it to be fine to trade off points. In fact, one of the places we go to normally on the west coast in Florida is in the DVC and it was great exchange. (based on how much the cash option would be to stay on the beach for the accomadations I had, I saved money using an exchange) There are also some Hilton and Marriott properties in the DVC. Within in this past year, we have used our World Passport exchange for a week and gone to WDW twice, but I can't say we will go every year especially as the kids grow up.(however, I will go back with grandkids way down the road) I am one of those few it seems from the boards standpoint that bought with the World Passport in mind to travel. I also bought with the fact that as prices increase for cash options to stay, my points will be even a better deal.

 

[Dean]

Try this thread for more info

Someone suggested that Disney makes a profit off of WC and that's why they offer it. So, does that mean that people don't use it on a regular basis? The last I check, almost everything anyone sales, they are trying to make a profit. By the poster reasoning, I should not buy a car with AC because the car company is only offering me it so that they can make a margin on it. Totally forgetting the point that I maybe I think AC would be a nice feature to have and maybe I'll use it on a regular basis. It's a win-win, they make a profit and the user gets the benefit. If no one purchased AC in their vehicles, believe me, the auto maker would not offer it. So, my guess is that people are using it on a regular basis.

Someone posted "For II, it's less than 3% of members and likely less than 2% of total points." Please tell us where that figure came from?

This was me, the first percentage is taken from the audit info that DVC does every year about weeks traded out and pending. The second portion was my estimate since not every trade will be for the entire years points and thus the percentage of points traded should be less than the % of members that traded with II. Try this thread for more info

I see that people are trying to tell others what is reasonable for them. Someone wrote "20% of resorts on DVC list are reasonable for trade." According to who? 20% may be reasonable to YOU but to someone else, it may be higher or lower.

Me again. Of course it's my opinion, isn't essentially everything we post on this and any other board. But the opinion is based on a fair amount of knowledge about II, DVC and a number of resorts. I'm confident in my knowledge of exchanging with II and esp using DVC. Remember there are negatives in exchanging even for a truly equitable trade. Members at most resorts are given benefits that exchangers are not including unit assignments, discounts and the like. DVC does the same thing in reverse. And what if you have to cancel, you may lose your points, your exchange and end up with nothing given II's protection. My opinion of 20% is knowing the quality of many of the resorts on the DVC II list as well as how easy some would be to trade for using something that cost $500 with fees less than half what DVC's are. As well as the other benefits of belong directly to II rather than using the watered down DVC II exchange option.

What is ideal for one user does not make it the know all and only way to do things. Just because something works for you does not make it the best way to do things. If someone wants to travel using WC then let them. It's their money.

I totally agree. Anyone can throw their money away if they want. But remember we're not talking about what a member wants to do but rather someone looking to buy in. They need all the info they can get. IF you want to post your opinion about this issue, go for it. But given your BBS name, are you a DVC member or are you hoping more people will exchange to allow outside access through II.

 

[yitbos96bb]

It is not deceptive advertising at all. You can visit all of those destinations using points. It just isn't that cost effective. You weren't a vicitim of deceptive advertising, you were a vicitim of your own lack of knowledge of a program YOU chose to buy into. There is nothing worse than people complaining about a program they bought into. Well, at least it feeds the resale market. We stay at timeshares all the time on cash and I get a good laugh at the people who don't know there own program. I find myself explaining to them how there program works and I don't even own it. The vast majority of timeshares today are on the up and up. They aren't trying to decieve or mislead. Do the research before buying into any program. There are no surprises with DVC. The program operates just like it is written.
This really isn't aimed at you by the way, shantay1008. Just my advice for what it is worth. ( not much )

DAVE

I just wanted to add that as far as fees are concerned, the trades through disney for II and other are a LOT cheaper than other timeshares. My Vegas one is A LOT more than Disney to trade through II. While the points for value aren't necessarily worth it, the lower fees would be helpful.

Now that being said, we are in the group more likely to use at Disney than trade, although it is nice to have the option.

 

[Dean]

I just wanted to add that as far as fees are concerned, the trades through disney for II and other are a LOT cheaper than other timeshares. My Vegas one is A LOT more than Disney to trade through II. While the points for value aren't necessarily worth it, the lower fees would be helpful.

Now that being said, we are in the group more likely to use at Disney than trade, although it is nice to have the option.

Actually there are several positives about the DVC exchange system compared to II directly. IMO, the negatives outweigh the positives for many but not for all. The current system is likely better for one that wants options and maybe use it every few years. The positives besides the exchange cost ($75 vs $134 for domestic exchanges), no yearly II fee, search first up to 2 years out, don't give up your points until you match, the chance to say yes or no once a match is found and that there is a small amount of protection for those that don't want to do their own homework. That is your chances of getting a truly bad exchange through DVC are somewhat less than someone taking the same pot luck with II in general. I don't feel it's enough to rely on but it is something. Having said that, I'll remind you that not everyone wants the same thing. A great resort for you may be horrible for me and vice versa. And you know what they said about the best laid plans of mice and men. Any exchange can turn into a nightmare. A couple of examples. First, I know of a DVC member that exchanged into Hanalei Bay on Kauai and were not at all happy. And there is a thread currently on TUG now where a person exchanged into OKW and was far less than pleased and I've seen similar threads on TUG with most if not all the DVC resorts over the years.

 

[RLevy29]

Just thought I'd put forward another (rather unpopular, it seems) point of view. We bought into DVC b/c WDW is the only destination we travel to on a regular basis. We are not interested in any other timeshares b/c we rarely stay in any one place on vacation for an entire week (we have never even stayed for a full week at WDW). DVC works because reservations do not need to be made in weeklong increments. Because of our vacationing habits, we've also never traded into an II resort. HOWEVER, we have done a number of Concierge Collection and Disney Collection trades, all of which we have enjoyed greatly, and felt that the trades were well worth it. Our valuation methodology may be a little wacky, but it works for us, and we are very pleased with the way that we have been able to use our DVC points for a variety of different locations.

We agree with this strategy. We don't worry about if we can trade our points and make money. We just use our points for vacations that we want to take. We go to DW every other year. We use it for other vacations the rest of the time.

 

[kimszath]

Well, I suppose the good news is that if you want to stay at WDW every year or even every other year, you'll be able to! My parents own a timeshare with a resort in Lake Buena Vista (can throw a rock and hit Downtown Disney). It was a five-star when they bought it (wavers back and forth to a 4-star), all weeks there are considered red weeks because I think anything in the area is all red weeks. She has a 2-bedroom deluxe, top of the line in her resort. She has tried many, many times to trade for a week through II to get into a Disney property, and has never been able to get in! She's trying to sell it now, so that she can buy into DVC! Makes me feel even better about my purchase of DVC, as if I needed another reason to feel good about it. I say buy whichever resort fits your wallet, and try to get in at the place you want to stay when you're planning in advance. For that matter, give them all a try! I booked at the resort that someone on the boards made sound like the "be all--end all" of DVC properties, and I have to say that I wasn't remotely as impressed by it as I was by SSR. Worst case, you'll get your home resort, and none of them are bad digs! I think we're all a little bit spoiled!!! Ain't it GREAT???

 

[DisneyBaby!]

Being brand new to DVC, we haven't even gone yet, some of these discussions are WAY over my head. I am not stupid but I had a hard time following some of these posts. Cost per point, exchanges, fees-some of these posts made no sense to me.

We did this because we love Disney, have 3 kids under 6 and plan on going every year for the forseeable future. There are things not mentioned, like the discounts, while not huge, make buying food, annual passes less expensive than booking dirrect. We have no desire to stay off property and, yeah, you can stay at a Value resort for very little, but if you price out how much staying at SSR paying cash for a 2 br is, DVC looks good. And people are forgetting, you pay up front, cash or finance but have use for 49 years. amortize the cost and it really makes sense.

I think people are crazy to spend tens of thousands of dollars on RV's-but that is their choice. And to not do something because someone will make money or to only do something to make money is foolish. Follow your heart. Ours says Disney Baby!

 

[Dean]

Well, I suppose the good news is that if you want to stay at WDW every year or even every other year, you'll be able to! My parents own a timeshare with a resort in Lake Buena Vista (can throw a rock and hit Downtown Disney). It was a five-star when they bought it (wavers back and forth to a 4-star), all weeks there are considered red weeks because I think anything in the area is all red weeks. She has a 2-bedroom deluxe, top of the line in her resort. She has tried many, many times to trade for a week through II to get into a Disney property, and has never been able to get in! She's trying to sell it now, so that she can buy into DVC! Makes me feel even better about my purchase of DVC, as if I needed another reason to feel good about it. I say buy whichever resort fits your wallet, and try to get in at the place you want to stay when you're planning in advance. For that matter, give them all a try! I booked at the resort that someone on the boards made sound like the "be all--end all" of DVC properties, and I have to say that I wasn't remotely as impressed by it as I was by SSR. Worst case, you'll get your home resort, and none of them are bad digs! I think we're all a little bit spoiled!!! Ain't it GREAT???

She'll not be able to trade in unless DVC changes the rules as they block all regional trades, I think it's a 45 mile radius.

 

[Lisa F]

I think the other thing to remember is that not everyone obsesses over their DVC and tries to figure out a way to squeeze every last cent of value from it. I wonder if the average DVC user has a pattern of things like 12 day trips, checking out of DVC resorts in the middle of the stay to avoid weekend points or if the average DVC user is someone who doens't worry about it and books their yearly disney or other vacation through it. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a non-insignficant number of people who had no problem paying a premium for a disney timeshare vs another timeshare and stay on disney properties occasionally but trade out pretty frequently too. For a long time timeshares had a bad reputation (and maybe still do?) and the fact is that not everyone researches every financial decision they make to death before making it and even then not everyone continues to obsess about that decision the way the average DISer does. There are people who just buy, enjoy the membership, and don't worry about the rest. We've run into them at the parks and on cruises and even at local events when we wear a DVC ball cap.

So no, it would not surprise me that a non-insignificant percentage of DVCers exchange out. Just like a non-insignificant number of people at any given Disney resort are probably paying rack rate to be there. Some people just don't care about that kind of stuff and DVC is a luxury product from a trustworthy company with a high end reputation and I can see how it might attract people who just don't care whether they pinch their points until they scream as well as those who have figured out how to make the system work for them in such a way that DVC can be a real bargain.