Staying single to collect welfare benefits

[funnygarcia]

. We have patients at our practice on insurance who also have medicaid!

That's not that unusual.
If you can get insurance thru an employer but your income is still low enough to qualify for medical aid or if diabled.. or if it is a child on medical aid is disabled ... the state will require the person to enroll in the employer insurance if it is deemed "cost effective". The state will cut a check for the family to offset any premium costs for the person covered by medical aid.

Example: I had family coverage insurance thru an employer paid $400 a month in premiums. My dh qualified for medical aid as disabled, the state deemed the insurance as "cost effective", I sent paperwork each month, the state sent me a check for $180 to cover dh's portion of the premium.


Example: Medical aid for disabled income is factored differently than non-disabled adult or children. The earnings of a disabled individual is discounted by 1/2 , dropping hte income for many to still qualify for medical aid. My dh is disabled, working, has insurance thru employer. He has Medicare (ESRD status- kidney failure) as primary, insurance as secondary, medical assistance covers his Medicare premium, deductible, co-pays.

Example:
My sister's children are disabled due to autism and developmental delays. The children get medical aid (TEFRA), they also are covered by her dh's employer insurance.
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A pregnant mother counts as two on aid applications, income limits for preg moms and child up to one year of age is quite high ..

MN family of 4 (mom counts as two, other child, dad = 4) $5,056 per month, $60,000+ per year.

If preg mom was on medical aid at baby's birth, baby is covered for one year automatically. Qualifying for medical aid is an instant qualification for WIC as well.

Depending on the career choice of the couple, even if they had informed the state of the correct household income, chances are they still would have qualified.

 

[blanq]

Who will pay for the medical coverage for all?

Who pays for our roads, teachers, police, etc.? Yeah, those same people. Us. Same as it is in other countries that have single payer systems. I think it is very feasible to have a single payer system and not bankrupt our country or compromise the quality of care.

 

[ssawka]

It is the system that is broken, not the people. Can you blame them for not turning down $ that is being handed to them? How many of you are going to turn down your Social Security check or Medicare when you get older even though you'll probably have a nice savings? Maybe if we had Universal Health Care, where everyone got the same then we would not have such "abuse" of the system!

 

[blanq]

I have no problem with working people that need extra help, but they are a minority in the welfare system, I have looked at the numbers. The system is failing misreably when it is more porfitable to be on the public dole than to go out and work and that needs to be changed.


France DOES NOT have the best medical outcomes in the world. They would not be coming here to recieve their cancer treatment if that were the case. Cancer centers all over the US treat patients from countries with socialized medicine because they do not have the same level of care in thier country. Most that are seriuosly ill in countries with socialized medicine come to the US for treatment if they have the means because the standard of care is higher. If there is not profit to be mande in being an oncologist, why inthe world would anyone put themselves through 12 plus years of training to do so? What socialized medicine has brough over ond over to countries that adopt it is an atrophy in the number of doctors, particularly specialists practicing, and an overall decrease in standard of and access to care. Taht is NOT what I want for the American health care system. I am not happy with the idea of wating months for a needed operation because the specialist's schedule is full. That is the reality in Great Britian and France, among others. Yes, everyone gets treated, eventually, but how long are you willing to wait for care???

Maybe the word "outcome" was poorly chosen on my part, but I stand my ground that France does a whole lot better than the US in the ranking of the world's health systems:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92419273
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

 

[blanq]

Does anyone know what happened to the legislation that was passed during the Clinton era that was supposed to end welfare careers? (I think it was called Welfare to Work or something like that). I thought they were supposed to limit the amount of time a person could collect welfare and require that recipients prove they were looking for a job. Has that idea totally been abandoned?

Yes, I do know what happened. I work have worked in child support for 20 years, and therefore my work is closely connected to the public assistance system. Clinton facilitated huge changes to the cash assistance program (formerly AFDC, Aid to Families with Dependent Children, and now TANF, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families). There is a lifetime limit of 5 years for a family to receive cash assistance and if you have more children when you are receiving cash assistance your cash grant does not increase. There are not, and never were, proposals to limit the time someone can stay on medical assistance of food support.

 

[ssawka]

Who pays for our roads, teachers, police, etc.? Yeah, those same people. Us. Same as it is in other countries that have single payer systems. I think it is very feasible to have a single payer system and not bankrupt our country or compromise the quality of care.

Absolutely, we can just start one less war and I'm sure there will be more than enough to cover everyone!

 

[mickeylove2]

Now here's a creative way to budget, just get all your neighbors to pick up the tab One of my coworkers is off today because his livein just had their baby. It is premature and only weighs 3 pounds. I remarked to someone that even with our insurance picking up most of the tab a bill like that could be a real budget buster. The guy said that our coworker didn't have to worry about it because they never got married, she is on welfare and the state is paying for everything

This isn't some poor girl who was abandoned, they have been living together for years and this is their 2nd child together (the state also paid for the first one) All legal, too.

I've heard the old saying about not paying for the butcher when the meat is free but this ups that. Not only is his meat free the state takes a portion of our meat and gives it to them also. What a country

This isn't the first time I've heard of a situation like this, just the latest. Years ago when I was living up in NH one of my coworker's had a girlfriend who made the local news. She was complaining about the state not giving her money for doctors. She had 4 kids and whenever one of them got a fever or the sniffles she had to take them to the emergency room, which cost a lot more money. Her argument actually made sense but all the people at the plant saw was a girl who was living with a man making over $100k/yr leeching off of the taxpayers. A bunch of angry calls were made to the paper and they had to issue a statement in the next edition explaining it: they weren't married and they weren't his children so shut up and pay (well they didn't put it that bluntly but that was the gist of the answer). A shame to see people like this gaming the system when so many responsible people are struggling to make ends meet.

Just had to vent

Um, if they are living together, she MUST supply his income information as they base benefits off of HOUSEHOLD income and size. If she is not providing his information, she is abusing the system and that is fraud which is a crime. If she is providing his income and she still qualifies, well that just means that he doesn't make enough to support her and the kids so everything is all well and good. I would report her and they will look into it and if they find that she is doing nothing wrong, then you just have to live with it. Trust me, I feel your pain...I'm a single mom of 2 kids and I can't get ANY type of help. I only get $200 a month in child support. And I just paid $90 for 1 prescription for my oldest DD. $15 Dr.s visit, $25 specialist, $50 x-ray, etc. I wish I could get medical assistance just so I didn't have to pay co-pays!!!

 

[blanq]

Absolutely, we can just start one less war and I'm sure there will be more than enough to cover everyone!

Amen.

 

[ceecee]

There is a lifetime limit of 5 years for a family to receive cash assistance and if you have more children when you are receiving cash assistance your cash grant does not increase. There are not, and never were, proposals to limit the time someone can stay on medical assistance of food support.

That's actually a great idea. How are so many people staying on welfare if there is a 5 year limit? Good to hear the income doesn't increase with additional kids, maybe that will limit some of the girls who got pregnant for the increase.

 

[Jynohn]

It is the system that is broken, not the people. Can you blame them for not turning down $ that is being handed to them? How many of you are going to turn down your Social Security check or Medicare when you get older even though you'll probably have a nice savings? Maybe if we had Universal Health Care, where everyone got the same then we would not have such "abuse" of the system!

I exclude those who are unable to work due to medical issues, disability, etc., but in the cases we're discussing, I most certainly do blame those who don't turn down money that is handed to them instead of working for it. Where is their sense of motivation and pride? How can someone be content to spend their lives living off of the labor of others? I don't anticipate Social Security being around when I'm finally eligible to receive it, but if it is, I absolutely will accept that check, because it's a system I paid into. Welfare checks vs. social security benefits are not a valid comparison.

 

[blanq]

That's actually a great idea. How are so many people staying on welfare if there is a 5 year limit? Good to hear the income doesn't increase with additional kids, maybe that will limit some of the girls who got pregnant for the increase.

I think people "perceive" that so many are staying on cash assistance when that is not the reality. In 1996, at the end of the old AFDC program, 12,320,970 total recipients received cash assistance. That number steadily dropped, and in 2007, 3,895,407 received cash assistance. The majority of families are on cash assistance for less than a year, and many for only a few months. The program has strict requirements requiring participation in activities that lead to work. I will say that with the crappy economy, more people are applying for assistance (cash, medical and food stamps). The medical assistance and food stamp caseloads in this country have been exploding.

 

[ssawka]

Where is their sense of motivation and pride?

Well you start to loose that when you work hard and nothing seems to come from it. Why work if it is going to result in less return? And who is going to take care of the kids? Sure, you can say that they shouldn't have had kids in the first place, but that is already water under the bridge. To deny aid to these people now is to deny the children, not the parents. As others have said, if you are really that upset about it, contact your elected officials, don't take it out on the recipients.

 

[princessmom29]

I think people "perceive" that so many are staying on cash assistance when that is not the reality. In 1996, at the end of the old AFDC program, 12,320,970 total recipients received cash assistance. That number steadily dropped, and in 2007, 3,895,407 received cash assistance. The majority of families are on cash assistance for less than a year, and many for only a few months. The program has strict requirements requiring participation in activities that lead to work. I will say that with the crappy economy, more people are applying for assistance (cash, medical and food stamps). The medical assistance and food stamp caseloads in this country have been exploding.

I teach in an inner city high school where the reality is that 75% of our students are on free and reduced lunch. To qualify you must also qualify for public assistance. 50% of our students live in subsidized housing. 75% recieve food stamp benefits in their family. Less than 30% have both parents working full time. You do the math. It doesn't add up. We are not just talking about cash assistance here. There are so many other ways to milk the system, like only paying $78 a month for your apartment becuase the governmnet subsidized the rest. No cash in your hand, but my cash is going to pay for it.

 

[Jynohn]

Well you start to loose that when you work hard and nothing seems to come from it. Why work if it is going to result in less return? And who is going to take care of the kids? Sure, you can say that they shouldn't have had kids in the first place, but that is already water under the bridge. To deny aid to these people now is to deny the children, not the parents. As others have said, if you are really that upset about it, contact your elected officials, don't take it out on the recipients.

Unfortunately, my elected officials don't seem to care too much about the will of the American people either...

Who are these people who are working hard and nothing is coming from it? My father grew up dirt poor. He was one of 16 kids, and my grandfather died young of a heart attack, leaving my grandmother alone with all of those children. If she had gone on welfare under those circumstances, I doubt many people would have blamed her. But instead, the older teenagers all got part-time jobs to help out the family. A couple joined the military. She did receive some assistance from her church and neighbors, but they got by without any government aid. And my father has always taught us that you can come from absolutely nothing and still make something of yourself. I know circumstances can sometimes deal people a hard blow, but I wish more people would learn the lesson that my father taught me.

 

[blanq]

I teach in an inner city high school where the reality is that 75% of our students are on free and reduced lunch. To qualify you must also qualify for public assistance. 50% of our students live in subsidized housing. 75% recieve food stamp benefits in their family. Less than 30% have both parents working full time. You do the math. It doesn't add up. We are not just talking about cash assistance here. There are so many other ways to milk the system, like only paying $78 a month for your apartment becuase the governmnet subsidized the rest. No cash in your hand, but my cash is going to pay for it.

The person who I responded to was asking about cash assistance, so that is what my answer relates to. We do spend a lot in this country on welfare benefits that do not include cash, and as my response indicated, the medical assistance and food stamp population is increasing significantly.

We taxpayers also spend boatloads of money on corporate welfare, but no one seems to cry much about that. I have never seen a thread here on the boards where people are complaining about subsidies (oh yeah...that would be welfare) to the oil companies, but we have had oodles of them complaining about "people" on welfare.

 

[ssawka]

Unfortunately, my elected officials don't seem to care too much about the will of the American people either...

Who are these people who are working hard and nothing is coming from it? My father grew up dirt poor. He was one of 16 kids, and my grandfather died young of a heart attack, leaving my grandmother alone with all of those children. If she had gone on welfare under those circumstances, I doubt many people would have blamed her. But instead, the older teenagers all got part-time jobs to help out the family. A couple joined the military. She did receive some assistance from her church and neighbors, but they got by without any government aid. And my father has always taught us that you can come from absolutely nothing and still make something of yourself. I know circumstances can sometimes deal people a hard blow, but I wish more people would learn the lesson that my father taught me.

Well, that's great for your family, and I really do admire them for doing that, but not everyone can do that. Especially with the way things are now, I hate to tell everyone, but the "American Dream" is dead and gone. There was a time when untrained labor could work there way up, but those days are long gone when you have coporate executives that are more than "content to spend their lives living off of the labor of others." Tell me, how are these people suppose to pick themselves up? There is only so many McDonald's jobs to go around. In today's economy, highly educated people are having a difficult time finding a job, how is average person suppose to do it? And as for the military, I really do admire our troops that have the courage to put themselves in harms way, but not everyone can do it.

 

[Muushka]

Soon the looters will have more voting power than those who take care of them. Heaven help us then.

 

[Kay1]

Soon the looters will have more voting power than those who take care of them. Heaven help us then.

If you mean the big corporations and banks, they already have way more power than we.

I just can't get worked up over the unfortunate. Personally, I'm more troubled by the people who live way beyond their means, then declare banruptcy, then start the whole cycle again, meanwhile driving up the costs of things those of us with earned and saved money wish to buy.

But life is too short and sweet to get so angry about things beyond one's control.

 

[disykat]

The dad has insurance. Why on earth is he not stepping up and covering the child? The fact that you aren't married doesn't make you less responsible for your children.

 

[princessmom29]

Well you start to loose that when you work hard and nothing seems to come from it. Why work if it is going to result in less return? And who is going to take care of the kids? Sure, you can say that they shouldn't have had kids in the first place, but that is already water under the bridge. To deny aid to these people now is to deny the children, not the parents. As others have said, if you are really that upset about it, contact your elected officials, don't take it out on the recipients.

There is free child care here for anyone on public assistance who chooses to work. You are fooling yourself if you believe that the aid payments of those who have made a career off the system are going to take care of their children. I can tell you from working with those same children every day that they are not. Mom and Dad come first and junior gets what is left most of the time. Sad but true. You are not donig the children any favors by enabling their parents. What will benefit those children most in the long run is a solid education. It is the only answer to beaking the cycle of dependence, but it is really hard to educate a child whose parent doesn't care wether they are at school or not as long as they don't bother them. Don't paint people who are "trapped by the system" as innocent victims becuase I assure you that in the majority of cases they are not. They know exactly what they are doing and choose to continue doing so rather than making the real effort required to better their circumstances, which they are perfectly capable of donig. The recipients ARE part of the problem with the system, but no one wants to admit that. There HAS to be a change in attitude to break the cycle, and yes the majority of career welfare recipients are responsible for their own situation and should be held accountable. I will not apologize for stating what I know from first hand experience to be true, or make excuses for behavior that is inexcusable. I realize that it is often more palatable to paint them as innocent victims of circumstance, and I was apt to do the same thing, until I was shown first hand the reality of the situation.