Starwars and Carsland in WDW

[lockedoutlogic]

Also front desk people are not told of things like this prior to any announcements. they are most likely hearing rumors of them on sites like this.

Walt disney world employees are the LAST to know...

I'm not exaggerating...or being mean...or looking for dramatic effect.

I'm telling you the truth.

True story...years back one of the hotels was due a massive rehab/retrofit...particularly the service area...
They tinkered around with how they were gonna handle the downtimes and schedules for rehab to not effect "guest service" (translation = revenue)...and the rumors went silent for awhile.

All of a sudden...hurry up meetings were thrown together by all departments on a Monday night at about 6 pm...drop everything and come

The place was shutting down for 3 months and everyone was being shipped out to fill holes in the staff (one of the worst wdw economic periods in history and no hiring of note for almost a year)...

Why were the "cast members" put in the know?

Because it was on intercot (and undoubtedly here) the night before...
And the shutdown/redeployment was ten days away...central res had started moving people to other hotels days before...

Because you were a nametag...doesn't mean you're a consideration
Again...honesty

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I wonder how much of the success of Carsland is due to the Cars theme, or just the fact that it added much needed attractions to DCA.

Or perhaps that the park was a complete disaster and the very loyal, nostalgic Disneyland fanbase that forced the billion dollar retrofit by more or less boycotting the park were so THRILLED with a park filled with new things and redesigns befitting the name (or their memories of the name) that there reception/attendance has been basically a response on steroids?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Well thats something because since the purchase of lucasfilm every rumor suggests star wars is coming. I have had multiple insiders says its coming. Carsland was originally green lit for DHS but once lucasfilm was purchased that was stopped. Star tours has existed for a long time it was a partnership between george lucas and disney. now disney owns the company they can do what they want with out buying rights to it, it is a lot easier. Avatar is in AK where it should be Avatar is not Star wars, star wars is much bigger in terms of fan base than Avatar. Star wars is supposed to be in DHS around 2020 (thats a completion date). Carsland was put on hold indefinitely and I don't think it will ever come to WDW because of star wars. Star tours is one ride, now think that plus maybe two more rides and an entire themed area whats not to love about that.

I ask again...as I do on everyone of these
"Throw money to the wind" capital construction threads..
What is the incentive or more accurately the timeline rush for Disney to lift a finger on either of these?

Are the crowds light in Orlando? Are the cash registers?
If the answers are "no" and "no" then they are literally losing money by constructing these things at this time...

Everything they are/have done for the last ten years and through the next five are on the same, brutal, calculating agenda...my opinion (I won't bore you and elaborate)

And then you must put the brakes on all these billion dollar rumors and ask "where's the profit in it"

To make Money? That's covered
To fill rooms? Not really needed at this time.
To grow attendance? Wanted...but still in good shape, strong and not worth the capital expense or operational cost at this time...

You can talk to as many "imagineers" as you want (mostly bloggers in their boxers)...
My contention is that Carsland "died" in Orlando the minute the housing bubble crash rebounded...it was over circa 2012...

And Star Wars will be milked commercially based on the movies and TV to come for awhile before the themepark angle will be turned too...

That's their investment that will sell the junk on the carts. Why build yoda spinners or the jar jar coaster when the people will come and you'll sell the same amount nonetheless....

The only wildcard on this is what's happening on kirkman today and what Comcast is gonna spend like sailors on next...
More loss in market share...that levels the scales and perhaps tips them in favor of expedient construction.

I think still...at a minimum...you looking at this avatar/fantasyland hogwash...
Big "announcement" and then a ridiculous "development" window followed by an even more ridiculous construction schedule.

One thing I will say for universal...they are letting the creative juices flow...they are paying for quality AND speed and the designers must be running on jetfuel right now...

Like Disney used to

 

[rteetz]

I ask again...as I do on everyone of these "Throw money to the wind" capital construction threads.. What is the incentive or more accurately the timeline rush for Disney to lift a finger on either of these? Are the crowds light in Orlando? Are the cash registers? If the answers are "no" and "no" then they are literally losing money by constructing these things at this time... Everything they are/have done for the last ten years and through the next five are on the same, brutal, calculating agenda...my opinion (I won't bore you and elaborate) And then you must put the brakes on all these billion dollar rumors and ask "where's the profit in it" To make Money? That's covered To fill rooms? Not really needed at this time. To grow attendance? Wanted...but still in good shape, strong and not worth the capital expense or operational cost at this time... You can talk to as many "imagineers" as you want (mostly bloggers in their boxers)... My contention is that Carsland "died" in Orlando the minute the housing bubble crash rebounded...it was over circa 2012... And Star Wars will be milked commercially based on the movies and TV to come for awhile before the themepark angle will be turned too... That's their investment that will sell the junk on the carts. Why build yoda spinners or the jar jar coaster when the people will come and you'll sell the same amount nonetheless.... The only wildcard on this is what's happening on kirkman today and what Comcast is gonna spend like sailors on next... More loss in market share...that levels the scales and perhaps tips them in favor of expedient construction. I think still...at a minimum...you looking at this avatar/fantasyland hogwash... Big "announcement" and then a ridiculous "development" window followed by an even more ridiculous construction schedule. One thing I will say for universal...they are letting the creative juices flow...they are paying for quality AND speed and the designers must be running on jetfuel right now... Like Disney used to

Do you not think Star Wars would help DHS? The lowest performing park. Top execs just threw together a frozen summer event in two weeks. They had not planned to do this prior to that. I think disney will wait until at least the first new movie is out. The insiders I know of think the same. I only follow people with a good track record, and when they have gotten, HP, DA, disney springs, frozen event a week before announcement, I think that is pretty good. I know disney doesn't need to of anything and really why should they. Everyone on boards like this are the extreme fans and planners people who go multiple times a year. The average disney fan, and the first time guest make up most of disneys attendance. So if those fans keep coming then they really don't need to do anything. Mymagic+ hurt disney. they are trying to make up for, Disneyland 60th anniversary events were almost cut because of it. Disney used to do what universal is doing today, and it was in the late 80s and 90s they built two parks in that time, created DVC, and built a bunch of hotels, I don't think we will ever see that type of expansion with disney again. Good for universal let them keep building, maybe it will get to a point where disney will have to do something.

 

[tcarrick12]

I would love to see a star wars land or carsland in WDW...hope this happens!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't see MGM as struggling or "underperforming"...and I would bet the farm neither does management...

See it for what it is:
A thrown together (by Eisner and wells own admition) park that actually started the boom expansion...
A mixed use idea that allowed the corporation to take a flyer in its expanding entertainment divisions at the time with little risk ..
By far the lowest overhead of the parks in terms of costs...I would guess closer to typhoon lagoon than EPCOT or animal kingdom
And a feeder park...a place to draw in cheerleading championships, pop Warner, and school groups that then filter into the "big boy" profit parks and the soon to be rechristened retail Mecca...

I think most people have MGM all wrong...they could have fleshed it out and had higher attendance/profit numbers out of it long ago...
But it's not worth it of those people aren't in the OTHER places.

Even a Star Wars addition...thanks to Mad king George...is not going to do the financial plunder damage it could have in 1998...
The zealot generation...the ones who are adults and now HAVE the money and the kids to buy the toys...where decimated due to cheap product and Insufferable/embarassing exploitation of the IP.

Frozen?
Sure...one the main drivers is obviously Harry potter deux opening up...

But beyond that...they made 1.25 billion (and accounting) on that movie alone...a titanic out of nowhere...and they have to capitalize a little on it in their largest captive audience site.. Even if its just to sell olafs and magic bands...

Disney having one hell of a year...almost 1.9 billion in worldwide gross on two movies that are entirely based on female characters...

Not one jedi or avenger involved...


A huge park coming in china...
Tons of work in the other park destinations...

Oh...and the opening of a kiddie coaster on a ridiculous 30 month construction schedule in Orlando...

I just depressed myself

 

[rteetz]

I don't see MGM as struggling or "underperforming"...and I would bet the farm neither does management... See it for what it is: A thrown together (by Eisner and wells own admition) park that actually started the boom expansion... A mixed use idea that allowed the corporation to take a flyer in its expanding entertainment divisions at the time with little risk .. By far the lowest overhead of the parks in terms of costs...I would guess closer to typhoon lagoon than EPCOT or animal kingdom And a feeder park...a place to draw in cheerleading championships, pop Warner, and school groups that then filter into the "big boy" profit parks and the soon to be rechristened retail Mecca... I think most people have MGM all wrong...they could have fleshed it out and had higher attendance/profit numbers out of it long ago... But it's not worth it of those people aren't in the OTHER places. Even a Star Wars addition...thanks to Mad king George...is not going to do the financial plunder damage it could have in 1998... The zealot generation...the ones who are adults and now HAVE the money and the kids to buy the toys...where decimated due to cheap product and Insufferable/embarassing exploitation of the IP. Frozen? Sure...one the main drivers is obviously Harry potter deux opening up... But beyond that...they made 1.25 billion (and accounting) on that movie alone...a titanic out of nowhere...and they have to capitalize a little on it in their largest captive audience site.. Even if its just to sell olafs and magic bands... Disney having one hell of a year...almost 1.9 billion in worldwide gross on two movies that are entirely based on female characters... Not one jedi or avenger involved... A huge park coming in china... Tons of work in the other park destinations... Oh...and the opening of a kiddie coaster on a ridiculous 30 month construction schedule in Orlando... I just depressed myself

Okay I used the wrong words but it is disneys least attended WDW park. AK being just above that getting upgrades I would hope DHS would get some too. I agree for a thrown together park it was pretty good when it opened it's much different today than it was then but I still stop there at least once a trip.

And like you said a huge park in china that is really where disneys attention is right now over seas. Besides Disney princesses Star Wars is the top merchandise seller I say for not having a new trilogy in a while that's pretty good. And of course disney can't use the avengers in the parks. Iron man is going to Hong Kong tho.

 

[Chuckers]

Oh...and the opening of a kiddie coaster on a ridiculous 30 month construction schedule in Orlando...

Actually, the time for the construction of the coaster itself wasn't really bad at all... it was the fact that they waited until it was the last thing to be built in NFL and that made it seem like forever.

When 6 Flags announces a new ride, it's usually about 6 months before the ride is scheduled to open. Enough time to build hype, but not enough time to build 'OMG How long is this going to take???' Disney announces new things set for 3-5 years out and builds hype which turns into disappointment because the end product doesn't live up the over-hype from the long wait.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It's least attended with about 1/3 of the usable path space as the other three...

That's why it's numbers are low...

Animal kingdom is not only huge...but the overhead is catastrophic...it's a zoo on steroids.

The entire cost of the employee at studios probably cost as much as it does to feed 16 elephants, 12 hippos, 24 crocodiles, 15 giraffes, 4 lazy lions, 8 tigers, and 10 gorillas alone for a day alone....

Quite simple:

1. Expand magic kingdom to bring In additional travelers and profit within the park
2. Flesh out downtown for third party fees and profits with little overhead
3. Expand animal kingdom with a "pizazz" property and all day schedule to stunt the operational costs and turn its financial prospects around
4. Add Starwars and cars to studios...which increases overhead while selling slightly more of
The same product that already sells

It's a "3 pronged attack"...
And one of these things are not like the others...
You pick.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Actually, the time for the construction of the coaster itself wasn't really bad at all... it was the fact that they waited until it was the last thing to be built in NFL and that made it seem like forever.

When 6 Flags announces a new ride, it's usually about 6 months before the ride is scheduled to open. Enough time to build hype, but not enough time to build 'OMG How long is this going to take???' Disney announces new things set for 3-5 years out and builds hype which turns into disappointment because the end product doesn't live up the over-hype from the long wait.

They worked on that site for ALONG time...
Some of it was undoubtedly for the other things...
But the circus area opened in early. 2012... The rest of the stuff in late 12...

Now I'm not photographic on this... But that coaster was under construction in 2012....so your talking at least 2 years of work...

And the workers werent exactly in a hurry when I was
Walking around.

It almost opened 6 months late too.

 

[rteetz]

They worked on that site for ALONG time...
Some of it was undoubtedly for the other things...
But the circus area opened in early. 2012... The rest of the stuff in late 12...

Now I'm not photographic on this... But that coaster was under construction in 2012....so your talking at least 2 years of work...

And the workers werent exactly in a hurry when I was
Walking around.

It almost opened 6 months late too.

With that said I wonder how long it will take them to build the same exact ride in shanghai...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

With that said I wonder how long it will take them to build the same exact ride in shanghai...

A fraction of the time... Because the goal there is to get people into the park...

Whereas in Orlando... Where the goal is to stretch it out for maximum promotional value...

Quietly...so none of us that remember don't bother to remember...of course

 

[rteetz]

A fraction of the time... Because the goal there is to get people into the park... Whereas in Orlando... Where the goal is to stretch it out for maximum promotional value... Quietly...so none of us that remember don't bother to remember...of course

Exactly I was just throwing it out there

 

[Chuckers]

They worked on that site for ALONG time...
Some of it was undoubtedly for the other things...
But the circus area opened in early. 2012... The rest of the stuff in late 12...

Now I'm not photographic on this... But that coaster was under construction in 2012....so your talking at least 2 years of work...

And the workers werent exactly in a hurry when I was
Walking around.

It almost opened 6 months late too.

I am not disagreeing with you because I don't remember them breaking ground in 2012, so I could be off.. and the only thing I can say in their defense vs. my 6 Flags argument is that 6 Flags really only puts up the coaster and frame, they don't do the serious themeing that Disney does. So I can give Disney a few extra months for the finishing touches that are necessary for a real Disney attraction.

My point really is that Disney announces stuff way too soon and gives people too much time to salivate over the GREAT NEW RIDE coming in.

I left So Cal in 2010 and they had already announced ALL the changes for DCA before I left. They were lucky that Carsland lived up to the hype... Ariel's Undersea (mis) Adventure did not (in either park and they could have made necessary improvements before putting it in MK).

 

[sabrecmc]

I agree with the PP that it makes more sense to keep CarsLand at DCA and do StarWarsLand at WDW. They have "Pixar Place" or whatever it is at Disneyland Paris. Seems like it makes sense to keep things a bit different for each park. Besides, Star Wars has been around forever and has proven its longevity. I am amazed at how many young kids know it from the Clone Wars cartoon and Legos. Not to mention Disney owning Lucasfilm and the massive licensing rights. It just makes so much more sense to me than AvatarLand, but whatever. I'm sure that will be beautiful, though I swear I do not see the appeal of Avatar at all. It was visually neat at the time, but the story was Pocahontas with slightly less singing. There was even a magic tree, for crying out loud. But, I digress. Star Wars Weekends are ridiculously popular. And whoever said that this is a multi-generational property is right. Parents and kids can be into this together, which is great. They have sort of started trying some SW things with the Weekends, like the character meal and Cantina...I think we will see StarWarsLand announced pretty soon. Here's hoping, anyway.

 

[TuneTownMagic]

I don't know how much substance there is necessarily to this piece, but here is some interesting speculation/information:

(My apologies if this or similar content has already been posted)

Star Wars

 

[Disco]

Actually construction of the mine coaster started around mid 2011. This baby took about three years to build.
I'll give them a little credit as it was a construction zone on an island in the middle of a open park by late 2012. Only a little though, as there is no way to explain three years to build an attraction...

 

[luisov]

Actually construction of the mine coaster started around mid 2011. This baby took about three years to build.
I'll give them a little credit as it was a construction zone on an island in the middle of a open park by late 2012. Only a little though, as there is no way to explain three years to build an attraction...

I think it was all a matter of budget. Disney was working on MyMagic+ and doing some different projects at Disney parks around the world, so they weren't ready to spend lots of money in a short period of time. They took 3 years partly because the area, like you said, was on an isle in the middle of an area crowded with people who didn't want to hear noise during their vacation, but it also took that long because they wanted to extend the ''novelty'' status of New Fantasy Land and because they probably wanted to dose their budget so it wouldn't feel like a huge expenditure.

 

[Goofyuk]

When talking about how ling it took to build the mine train, remember WDW builds for permanence. Is the history of WDW how many rides have had to be rebuilt, or have any major work done to the structures themselves outside of cosmetic level differences.

Universal on the other hand despite being around for a far shorter time have had a lot of attractions either torn down or rebuilt for various reasons.

 

[Joben]

The Yeti didn't last too long