Star Wars: The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread. ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK

[lockedoutlogic]

You are coming across as one of those I was alive when it originally was cool so I'm better than you type of people.

You are allowed to have your stance and people who find 1-3 decent, or good, or were able to enjoy them are allowed their stance.

You seem set on making sure people know they are wrong for even remotely enjoying 1-3.

Not at all...as I further posted I was on the wee tail end of Star Wars...

But I am very ponderous on these types of things and I don't hold the Bucket for the things I like.

What's good is good and what's bad is bad.

Not sports, Disney, nor Star Wars.

Praise when good...criticism when bad.

You want to know what the prequels did for the old fans? It artificially made the original better than we thought they were 25 years ago!!!

Nobody thought Mark hammil was a good actor...and nobody liked ewoks...and nobody thought boba fett didn't go out like a chump...or that blowing up the Death Star through a dryer
Vent made sense...

But now it's like citizen Kane.

Blame that on George's "art"...

Call me crazy...but you'll realize I have a valid point.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Not using the spoiler tag here either...

They said in the movie that Luke had started training new Jedi..2 new Jedi. A boy and a girl. The boy is obviously Kylo Ren. I think the girl is Rey, and I do agree that I think she is Luke's daughter. It will be interesting to see who they bring in to be her mother. They could still use the EU character Mara Jade...would make tons of fans happy, and could also introduce new blood/backstory into the movies.

Don't think they will go EU at all except for perhaps using some of the loose concepts and rename/repackaging the final concepts

 

[wilkeliza]

Not using the spoiler tag here either...

They said in the movie that Luke had started training new Jedi..2 new Jedi. A boy and a girl. The boy is obviously Kylo Ren. I think the girl is Rey, and I do agree that I think she is Luke's daughter. It will be interesting to see who they bring in to be her mother. They could still use the EU character Mara Jade...would make tons of fans happy, and could also introduce new blood/backstory into the movies.

Hm I didn't hear them call out 2 specifically. I have to imagine if Rae had jedi training she would have known Luke Skywalker was real.

 

[The Disney Movie Review]

In defense of @lockedoutlogic, I think he/she is entitled to their opinion too. From what I've seen, he/she has been respectful to others, but differed on his/her opinion. He/she is a bit of a generalist but respectful. Not calling people idiots and such. I review movies on my website and podcast (www.TheDisneyMovieReview.com) and I think this is part of what makes movies enjoyable. Not just the stories but the way we interpret those stories. Like, Kylo Ren meant a lot to me as a character cause of my bipolar disorder. (I will discuss this more on my upcoming Podcast this Monday if you care to listen). But I can get why others don't like him.

So I said all that to say this: Everyone should get a chance to have an opinion...the only thing I ask is that they be respectful.

 

[hopemax]

Shot right past it...

A failure of basic requirements of storytelling is not a matter of taste.

The most fundamental one is drawing no attachment between the audience and the plight of the characters...

Did anyone shed a single tear for Natalie Portman?

Nope.

I didn't share a tear for Han either, so what does that mean? The whole "destroy Death Star Take 3" section left me feeling a big "eh." It certainly wasn't a win, but neither did it leave the characters in as desperate circumstances as Empire, just a plot point that needed to be checked off a list. Same with Han's death. In ROJ, Luke told Obi-Wan, "I can't kill my own father." So now we get the counterpoint, but I didn't find it "interesting." The setting/world building is interesting, the characters, the ship battles, but the more I think about it, the story leaves me, again, "eh." Other than wanting to know more about where Rey and Finn came from, I'm realizing how little I care about the rest of what happens as far as the overall continuing battle between Light and Dark. I'm sure Kylo Ren will be more competently bad-*** in the next one, as crossing the "murder your family" threshold seems to be critical for Dark Knight proficiency, but I really don't care. Luke did a lot of stupid stuff, but you understood his idealism and loyalties, and therefore motivation. Kylo Ren apparently has Grandpa's bad genes.

And Brian, you are not alone ranking Phantom Menace as the best of the Prequels. Of the three prequels, I can rewatch that one the most. Now I wouldn't rank it as high as you did because it's still not good, a lot of it ended up feeling like filler, and no virgin births, please. But the acting and writing in 2 or 3, I just can't take. So much that I think I've only ever seen 3 twice.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Hm I didn't hear them call out 2 specifically. I have to imagine if Rae had jedi training she would have known Luke Skywalker was real.

If you go along with that route then you would have to think she was too young to remember anything.

I honestly need to go back just to watch the dream sequence. There was so much in there but I think there was a mother/separation that lasted two seconds.

They have to resolve that a different way than the "unknown, mysterious" mother than they explained away in return of the Jedi.

Can't be the same again.

I don't need Natalie Portman in 30 years doing a "prequel to the sequels"

Yoi

 

[hopemax]

. It will be interesting to see who they bring in to be her mother. They could still use the EU character Mara Jade...would make tons of fans happy, and could also introduce new blood/backstory into the movies.

I have two thoughts on this. Ultimately, I don't think who her mother is matters as much as her father, if it is Luke. She just needs a reason for Luke to know her. So option A. Tie her into the originals (did Wedge have a sister, or was there an X-wing pilot Luke took a liking too?). Option B, she's related to a new character. Perhaps, Lor San Tekka (old guy with the map piece) had a daughter, and it would allow him to keep an eye on Rey and be trusted with the map piece in the first place, like Obi-Wan could keep an eye on Luke.

 

[wilkeliza]

If you go along with that route then you would have to think she was too young to remember anything.

I honestly need to go back just to watch the dream sequence. There was so much in there but I think there was a mother/separation that lasted two seconds.

They have to resolve that a different way than the "unknown, mysterious" mother than they explained away in return of the Jedi.

Can't be the same again.

I don't need Natalie Portman in 30 years doing a "prequel to the sequels"

Yoi

The flash back of her being left looked like she was between 6-8. I would have to imagine she would have remembered that. Also the scene she sees of Kylo killing all the Jedi Luke was training there were a tok of bodies. They specifically said he killed all of them but Luke.

 

[BrianL]

The whole "destroy Death Star Take 3" section left me feeling a big "eh."

I actually thought what would be cool is if the Resistance DIDN'T destroy Starkiller Base. I mean, it was a planet! Sure, disable the super weapon so they can't use it for a while, but the laser made up what, like 1/30th of the total mass of that thing. It'd be cool if it just stayed put, like, "come at me again!" and the Resistance would have to deal with this whole evil planet and whatever crazy threat they cooked up on it next.

I also was a little confused with one aspect. When they fire on "The Republic" I had assumed they were firing on Coruscant, but then we see a planet unlike Coruscant (they call it something else later). Was this the center of the New Republic, or just where the majority of the fleet was? If it is the center, what happened on Coruscant? MAybe repeated viewings will clarify.

 

[hopemax]

I also was a little confused with one aspect. When they fire on "The Republic" I had assumed they were firing on Coruscant, but then we see a planet unlike Coruscant (they call it something else later). Was this the center of the New Republic, or just where the majority of the fleet was? If it is the center, what happened on Coruscant? MAybe repeated viewings will clarify.

I went to the bathroom during that scene, so I'm no help. DH said, "You picked a good time to go," basically implying that once you've seen one super weapon destroy a planet, a more destructive one isn't that big of a deal. Probably looked cool, though. We might go see the movie again in FL, with my Dad, but neither of us are rushing to do it, so again what does that say about the movie?

And I think I agree with you, it would have been more interesting if the failed to take out the gun. Disable it, but leave it as a ticking time clock to present some sense of urgency for the Resistance.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I didn't share a tear for Han either, so what does that mean? The whole "destroy Death Star Take 3" section left me feeling a big "eh." It certainly wasn't a win, but neither did it leave the characters in as desperate circumstances as Empire, just a plot point that needed to be checked off a list. Same with Han's death. In ROJ, Luke told Obi-Wan, "I can't kill my own father." So now we get the counterpoint, but I didn't find it "interesting." The setting/world building is interesting, the characters, the ship battles, but the more I think about it, the story leaves me, again, "eh." Other than wanting to know more about where Rey and Finn came from, I'm realizing how little I care about the rest of what happens as far as the overall continuing battle between Light and Dark. I'm sure Kylo Ren will be more competently bad-*** in the next one, as crossing the "murder your family" threshold seems to be critical for Dark Knight proficiency, but I really don't care. Luke did a lot of stupid stuff, but you understood his idealism and loyalties, and therefore motivation. Kylo Ren apparently has Grandpa's bad genes.

And Brian, you are not alone ranking Phantom Menace as the best of the Prequels. Of the three prequels, I can rewatch that one the most. Now I wouldn't rank it as high as you did because it's still not good, a lot of it ended up feeling like filler, and no virgin births, please. But the acting and writing in 2 or 3, I just can't take. So much that I think I've only ever seen 3 twice.

See now...I do agree with this pretty much.

We all CAN be friends.

Here's my thing the morning after. I have been critical in my head...but in a good way... As in I think they can honestly correct this movie's flaws in the coming installments. And I'm really anxious for more. That's the sign of a good movie.

But...the compete rehash of the old movies was too far. I mean...he didn't leave anything out. Trench runs, Death Star, desert isolation, battle on green planet, battle in the snow, top secret droid sidekick...and on and on...

Abrams made some comments leading up that are gonna haunt him forever. The first the that it was a standalone film. Not even close, Bub.
The second is his repeated "I'm tired of doing sequels and reboots"...

Then why did you write a sequel that was a complete reboot?

I mean...George Lucas can be satisfied that nobody else has ever written a star wars movie. Abrams and kasdan didn't write one either.

I actually agree in retrospect that there's a strong case that phantom menace might have the most merits of the prequels. Though the story wasn't thought out...he had no idea how to set the table for the inevitable end. What did any of the "conflict"
Have to do with what followed?

And he played to the wrong crowd. You can say "it's just for kids" after the fact all you want George...but he never would have said that had it not bombed so hard with the core fanbase who largely never would have forgave him. It was just a failure of strategy...and he never owned it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I actually thought what would be cool is if the Resistance DIDN'T destroy Starkiller Base. I mean, it was a planet! Sure, disable the super weapon so they can't use it for a while, but the laser made up what, like 1/30th of the total mass of that thing. It'd be cool if it just stayed put, like, "come at me again!" and the Resistance would have to deal with this whole evil planet and whatever crazy threat they cooked up on it next.

I also was a little confused with one aspect. When they fire on "The Republic" I had assumed they were firing on Coruscant, but then we see a planet unlike Coruscant (they call it something else later). Was this the center of the New Republic, or just where the majority of the fleet was? If it is the center, what happened on Coruscant? MAybe repeated viewings will clarify.

The lack of any explanation of the difference between resistance and republic was a major flub. Perhaps my biggest complaint. Maybe because Carrie fisher is unable to move her cheeks? Because that was her characters place to tell us.

The ghost of Obi wan explained the ENTIRE story arc for the prequels in a 30 second clip from a new hope and return of the Jedi. The WHOLE THING.
Better than 7 hours of cgi.

Major fail with this in the new movie. The fleet was mentioned but I'm not convinced it was destroyed. They need that later.

Also they said they were going to cripple the star killer base...nobody said death explosion part 3

It's possible that was the political seat of the "legitimate" governement. And in one stroke they actually eliminated the one common element from all three movies - the "republic" as the best option. That is interesting.

If it were me...I would say coruscant - which never existed in the original movies - was destroyed in the war that Was portrayed to rage/continue after Jedi.

I have to think they will bother to flesh that out...if not you're back to prequel type laziness.

Abrams said "people thought the war was over...but it wasn't"

Well...I still don't know what the hell happened? Anybody?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Hm I didn't hear them call out 2 specifically. I have to imagine if Rae had jedi training she would have known Luke Skywalker was real.

It was said when Han was explaining Kylo Ren to Rey. It's clear that Rey doesn't remember a good portion of her past. I also don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that if Luke was trying to keep her safe, he could have altered her memory. When interrogating her, Kylo mentions that he sees she dreams about an ocean and an island (and whatever the wording was, it inmplied that it had been a recurring dream for quite some time, not something recent)...then the end scene happens the way it does. i don't think that's coincidence.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I have two thoughts on this. Ultimately, I don't think who her mother is matters as much as her father, if it is Luke. [/q She just needs a reason for Luke to know her. So option A. Tie her into the originals (did Wedge have a sister, or was there an X-wing pilot Luke took a liking too?). Option B, she's related to a new character. Perhaps, Lor San Tekka (old guy with the map piece) had a daughter, and it would allow him to keep an eye on Rey and be trusted with the map piece in the first place, like Obi-Wan could keep an eye on Luke.

If they went the mara Jade as mother route, I do think it would matter for a few reasons. Mara would satisfy both your A and B options - In the EU, she's the Emporer's Hand and works/worked closely with him. She's also a completely new character. In the EU she's also a Jedi in her own right, which could impact Rey as well and perhaps explain why (IF she is) Rey is "the more powerful" one.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Ummm...there's no EU.

Disney kinda lowered the boom
On that

 

[mindygirl5238]

I'm probably way off base, but I immediately thought that Rey was the twin sister of Ren and like Leia and Luke they'd been separated and Ray hidden for her protection. I thought the scene were she and Leia first see each other was them recognizing each other. Not sure why Hans wouldn't know about her though so I'm probably off.

In the EU, Han & Leia did have twins. A boy & a girl, Jacen & Jaina. Jacen turned to the dark side, Jaina did not. (They also have another son). Sounds familiar to me. But, I could see them making Rey Luke's daughter as well. But who knows if they will actually cast someone as Mara Jade.

So, I haven't seen the movie yet, but I read spoilers online because I have a newborn, so I don't know when I'll be getting a night out at the movies. And I knew I could still enjoy the movie even if I knew what was coming. Plus, I'm really inpatient, ha ha.

I'm kinda bummed that this sounds like it's nothing more than a 2 hour trailer for Episodes 8 & 9.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Ummm...there's no EU.

Disney kinda lowered the boom
On that

I'm aware of that. That's been a well covered topic of conversation in our household for quite some time.

They have, however, used elements from the EU in other SW canon (like the Interdictor Cruiser on Rebels recently). The whole Solo son goes to the dark side was also an element seen in the EU. Clearly Disney does not have problems taking elements from the EU and incorporating them as they see fit.

 

[umichigan10]

See now...I do agree with this pretty much.

We all CAN be friends.

Here's my thing the morning after. I have been critical in my head...but in a good way... As in I think they can honestly correct this movie's flaws in the coming installments. And I'm really anxious for more. That's the sign of a good movie.

But...the compete rehash of the old movies was too far. I mean...he didn't leave anything out. Trench runs, Death Star, desert isolation, battle on green planet, battle in the snow, top secret droid sidekick...and on and on...

Abrams made some comments leading up that are gonna haunt him forever. The first the that it was a standalone film. Not even close, Bub.
The second is his repeated "I'm tired of doing sequels and reboots"...

Then why did you write a sequel that was a complete reboot?

I mean...George Lucas can be satisfied that nobody else has ever written a star wars movie. Abrams and kasdan didn't write one either.

I actually agree in retrospect that there's a strong case that phantom menace might have the most merits of the prequels. Though the story wasn't thought out...he had no idea how to set the table for the inevitable end. What did any of the "conflict"
Have to do with what followed?

And he played to the wrong crowd. You can say "it's just for kids" after the fact all you want George...but he never would have said that had it not bombed so hard with the core fanbase who largely never would have forgave him. It was just a failure of strategy...and he never owned it.

This is my frustration. I think the movie was good I really do. But why did you rehash everything JJ???? I get they wanted to play close to the chest with the way the prequels ended up but honestly? If you were any closer you'd be holding your heart.

I gave it an A- because I think it did well I'm the acting area and I enjoyed some elements of the story. But I think I rolled my eyes at the trench run and kept praying the planet would stay intact and not have a part 3 explosion of the killer death sphere

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm aware of that. That's been a well covered topic of conversation in our household for quite some time.

They have, however, used elements from the EU in other SW canon (like the Interdictor Cruiser on Rebels recently). The whole Solo son goes to the dark side was also an element seen in the EU. Clearly Disney does not have problems taking elements from the EU and incorporating them as they see fit.

Well I certainly can see a bit of rehashing/relabeling...but they won't ever admit to a tie.

Interdictor cruisers were in the first EU books...the zahn ones.

And they were featured in some of the Lucas arts games. I hope we do get to see them on the screen.

One of my absolute favorites.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Well I certainly can see a bit of rehashing/relabeling...but they won't ever admit to a tie.

On that I can agree. I doubt that they will have a character named Mara jade be rey's mother. But I can absolutely see them creating a character with elements of Mara Jade and her history. How Mara jade dies would fit quite well into the story they are piecing together of rey's background if she is indeed Luke's daughter.