Star Wars Tales Of The Arcolyte

[PolymerSkywalker]

I fault Kennedy for a lack of a plan and some massively disjointed management on many of the projects during her time. When they have announced and cancelled more projects than they have actually made, it strongly suggests management may be an issue. There is simply no way to look at her time at Lucasfilm and not see it as a hot mess. She failed to attract, hire, and manage the best and the brightest minds to make SW for the next generation. She’s the leader of the company and the buck stops with her.

Willow flopped on her and watch.

Indy flopped on her watch.

SW flopped on her watch.

Basically all three areas of the company have faltered under her leadership. KK was a great hire on paper, but she has been a disaster in the Lucasfilm big chair.

I do place a ton of blame on Iger too as he assumed SW was like Marvel and could be managed the same way with lots of projects really fast and have some be just loosely connected. He was wrong, and SW fans are much more picky and also more knowledgeable than Marvel fans. Then Rian Johnson “subverted expectations” and the train started to go off the tracks. Then Solo flopped and they freaked out. Then they crammed a bunch of fan service crap in Rise and it was a disjointed mess. I blame Iger for now allowing the creatives to slow down and but a cohesive story together from the beginning, but I blame KK for letting it happen also. Mando 2 rebuilt some of the faith, but subsequent flops have eroded all of that and then some.

The best thing right now probably would be a break and bring in a whole new team to work on a theatrical project for about 5 years from now. Do books and some animated stuff but get your crap together before you try live action again.

I think the Mando movie has promise, but there is also some risk if it isn’t great. They have to get the next Theatrical release right! If I were a betting man I would guess you likely will have some real master Jedi Luke in that movie to pull back in the OT fans who are ticked off.

 

[StageTek]

The issue wasn’t so much the bad story and questionable acting. It was more so that Disney spent $180 million plus on something that not very many people watched.

I agree with you; Disney spent too much on something that not very many people watched. But I think the issue is a bad story and questionable acting. I submit that if the story had been engaging, with relatable characters and great acting many people would have watched.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Oh I agree with that, if you make good SW content…….people will line up to watch it. Mando seasons 1-2 were good and people were talking about SW again and buying the merch and everything.

A good SW movie that properly respects legacy characters will make a billion dollars guaranteed.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

That's the thing, people want everything to be true to the original, but the fact is that people don't really like Willow. It was never a big hit anyway.

What makes Willow great is the love story between Madmartigan and Sorsha, and how they are both redeemed by the presence of Elora Danan.

 

[BrianL]

What makes Willow great is the love story between Madmartigan and Sorsha, and how they are both redeemed by the presence of Elora Danan.

Hey, I didn't say that I didn't think it was great - I definitely do. It's just that, really, it was never a huge hit and is generally a footnote in the Fantasy genre.

 

[BrianL]

A good SW movie that properly respects legacy characters will make a billion dollars guaranteed.

They made three of those - they all made over $1B at the box office.

And I don't necessarily agree that if it's "good" people will watch it. If that was the case, why is Andor the lowest rated of all of the Star Wars shows excluding Acolyte? Arguably it should be the way-highest, right? That's because it isn't really about that and never has been. Personally, I think Andor needed a better title. It's really just marketing after all.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Yeah they did so great that they have been petrified of a theatrical release ever since then. Also agree to disagree on the respecting of the legacy characters, well me and about half the fanbase disagree with you that is.

I just left Deadpool and Wolverine and that’s what I am talking about Marvel. The best thing since Endgame by a large margin. It gives me hope that Star Wars can get their crap together again at some point!

 

[mdmost]

You can't just do fan service after fan service. That is only going to work so much. You have to take risks and find the story that generates the future sequels. I love Deadpool and Wolverine but I don't want nothing but those movies going forward. At some point they just become derivatives of the one before them. My biggest fear is we're just going to get digital versions of post-OT heroes. It won't be the same. It's not Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford.

Maybe stop doing Disney+ shows but keep doing movies. Keep taking risks. Mandalorian was a risk that paid off tremendously for Disney and Lucasfilm. Andor was the same. It's a shame Patty Jenkins Rogue Squadron was dropped. Retool things, get the budgets down but don't be afraid to try things.

 

[BrianL]

You can't just do fan service after fan service. That is only going to work so much. You have to take risks and find the story that generates the future sequels. I love Deadpool and Wolverine but I don't want nothing but those movies going forward. At some point they just become derivatives of the one before them. My biggest fear is we're just going to get digital versions of post-OT heroes. It won't be the same. It's not Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford.

Maybe stop doing Disney+ shows but keep doing movies. Keep taking risks. Mandalorian was a risk that paid off tremendously for Disney and Lucasfilm. Andor was the same. It's a shame Patty Jenkins Rogue Squadron was dropped. Retool things, get the budgets down but don't be afraid to try things.

That's all certain people want though - "The Continuing Adventures of Luke Skywalker and Friends." They are unwilling to accept anything other than that. Marvel sometimes goes too far into Fan Service, but the audiences cheer whenever they see a character that they know. "Look! It's some character that appeared in three panels of a comic book in 1986 - WOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!" That's actually kinda ridiculous. Sure, the moments when we meet a long-time character can be special, but if the entire movie is those moments, then it really loses it's impact.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Oh I agree they have to continue to take risks, but what SW needs more than anything right now is a bonafide hit. New and brave and risky will not bring back the OT fans that are still ticked off from the ST. Get the fandom back together with a Deadpool and Wolverine type hit and then take some risks after that.

The Acolyte was just a bad story with some not so great acting and a blockbuster movie budget. That’s a recipe for failure every single time. We need leaders at Lucasfilm that can skim through a script like that and say, No way shut it down.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

For example it was great seeing Blade in the new Deadpool and Wolverine movie. It wasn’t some grumpy old feeble hermit that was a shell of his former self. It was the butt kicking Blade who I loved as a kid. I just don’t think it’s that hard to pull off. Rian Johnson just did it wrong, it’s that simple.

 

[BrianL]

Oh I agree they have to continue to take risks, but what SW needs more than anything right now is a bonafide hit. New and brave and risky will not bring back the OT fans that are still ticked off from the ST. Get the fandom back together with a Deadpool and Wolverine type hit and then take some risks after that.

The Acolyte was just a bad story with some not so great acting and a blockbuster movie budget. That’s a recipe for failure every single time. We need leaders at Lucasfilm that can skim through a script like that and say, No way shut it down.

Amazingly, the ST was supposed to win back those OT fans who hated the Prequels so much. It's amazing that they didn't considering tha they are practically remakes of the original three!

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

That's all certain people want though - "The Continuing Adventures of Luke Skywalker and Friends." They are unwilling to accept anything other than that. Marvel sometimes goes too far into Fan Service, but the audiences cheer whenever they see a character that they know. "Look! It's some character that appeared in three panels of a comic book in 1986 - WOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!" That's actually kinda ridiculous. Sure, the moments when we meet a long-time character can be special, but if the entire movie is those moments, then it really loses it's impact.

Deadpool is now the highest grossing rated R movie of all time and has people saying things like “Marvel is back”. So while I understand what you are saying, I still believe giving the fans what they want can be very rewarding for a studio.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Amazingly, the ST was supposed to win back those OT fans who hated the Prequels so much. It's amazing that they didn't considering tha they are practically remakes of the original three!

Poor remakes that disrespect our childhood hero’s didn’t work though. They were financially successful but not palatable by a large portion of the fandom. You can argue that this shouldn’t have occurred all you want to, but it won’t become any less true.

Also I don’t remember the prequel hate like you do. I liked those movies a lot as they were the SW that I introduced my kids too. Sure they weren’t as good as the OT, but I just don’t believe they were as universally disliked in the same way the Disney ST is.

 

[BrianL]

Deadpool is now the highest grossing rated R movie of all time and has people saying things like “Marvel is back”. So while I understand what you are saying, I still believe giving the fans what they want can be very rewarding for a studio.

I haven't seen Deadpool, but I hear it's pretty fan-service heavy. I am not a fan of those things they are servicing though, but it sounds like it has the smae issues that Spider-Man No Way home and Avengers Endgame have - just too much! Obviously that's a personal opinion, and audiences eat that up and beg for more, but why I'll never understand. I don't blame the studio for doing what works!

Poor remakes that disrespect our childhood hero’s didn’t work though. They were financially successful but not palatable by a large portion of the fandom. You can argue that this shouldn’t have occurred all you want to, but it won’t become any less true.

Also I don’t remember the prequel hate like you do. I liked those movies a lot as they were the SW that I introduced my kids too. Sure they weren’t as good as the OT, but I just don’t believe they were as universally disliked in the same way the Disney ST is.

That "disrespect" thing I will never understand either. So Luke ran off to a remote planet for a few years, per the Jedi code - so what? He still saves the day in the end, something Yoda never even did.

Prequel hate was pervasive and traumatizing. I mean, it was BRUTAL and never made any sense at all. Look what it did to George Lucas! To Ahmed Best! To Jake Lloyd! It was merciless, and yet somehow pales in comparison to those who hate SW now - it's similar but for different reasons.

I still postulate that it wouldn't have mattered WHAT they did - many fans simply would never have liked it.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I haven't seen Deadpool, but I hear it's pretty fan-service heavy. I am not a fan of those things they are servicing though, but it sounds like it has the smae issues that Spider-Man No Way home and Avengers Endgame have - just too much! Obviously that's a personal opinion, and audiences eat that up and beg for more, but why I'll never understand. I don't blame the studio for doing what works!



That "disrespect" thing I will never understand either. So Luke ran off to a remote planet for a few years, per the Jedi code - so what? He still saves the day in the end, something Yoda never even did.

Prequel hate was pervasive and traumatizing. I mean, it was BRUTAL and never made any sense at all. Look what it did to George Lucas! To Ahmed Best! To Jake Lloyd! It was merciless, and yet somehow pales in comparison to those who hate SW now - it's similar but for different reasons.

I still postulate that it wouldn't have mattered WHAT they did - many fans simply would never have liked it.

Deadpool did one thing very very well. It acknowledges that the multiverse crap is too confusing and doesn’t work. That’s all you need sometimes is to tell the fans we hear you loud and clear and we are trying to right the ship.

I do find it quite interesting that the three movies you mentioned having “issues” with above all three were absolute box office juggernauts. Do you think possibly your taste in movies just doesn’t line up with the average movie goer?

Like I said I just don’t remember the PT stuff like you do. I remember my kids playing with JarJar toys and pod racer video games. It was different but we loved those movies in my house. You understood why Vader became Vader which worked for me.

 

[HokieRaven5]

I haven't seen Deadpool, but I hear it's pretty fan-service heavy. I am not a fan of those things they are servicing though, but it sounds like it has the smae issues that Spider-Man No Way home and Avengers Endgame have - just too much! Obviously that's a personal opinion, and audiences eat that up and beg for more, but why I'll never understand. I don't blame the studio for doing what works!

Deadpool and Wolverine as far as dynamic between Hugh and Ryan was great. Story, not so much, but story doesn’t always matter in fan service heavy films so long as they use nostalgia driven characters.

 

[BrianL]

Deadpool and Wolverine as far as dynamic between Hugh and Ryan was great. Story, not so much, but story doesn’t always matter in fan service heavy films so long as they use nostalgia driven characters.

Right, but personally, I don't connect with that. The story has to be good first, then if they sprinkle in some nostalgia, more the better. It can't just be all fan serivce/nostalgia though. In the case of Deadpool, I have no nostalgia for what they are nostalgia-ing, so I especially don't care.

 

[mdmost]

Well, Deadpool 3's success doesn't mean the MCU is back. It was a one-off movie for both characters. Maybe they return for the Secret Wars movie but it was more the closing of the Fox chapter for the Marvel Universe. If the new Captain America and Thunderbolts does well then we can say the MCU is back.

 

[Boski]

I don't understand why they don't do a Knights of the Old Republic/Sith Wars/Jedi-Sith Wars series. It would print money with both the hardcore fans and the casuals. Could you imagine a trailer with a bunch of Jedi and Sith going at it??? Everyone would flock to the theaters.