Star Wars Tales Of The Arcolyte

[BrianL]

IMO what would actually help give the series a bit more credibility is if some how Plagueis was working with the witches in a effort to create life and Osha/Mae was his first attempt. But that would also mean Plagueis's age would have to be tweaked...but they've already gone down that path so why not change stuff some more?

I would definitely welcome the reveal that Plagueis was pulling the strings the entire time - regarding a LOT of what happened. That is the direction that I would take it.

 

[nancipants]

IMO what would actually help give the series a bit more credibility is if some how Plagueis was working with the witches in a effort to create life and Osha/Mae was his first attempt. But that would also mean Plagueis's age would have to be tweaked...but they've already gone down that path so why not change stuff some more?

Why does his age need to be tweaked? He doesn’t have a canon birthdate as far as I know. In Legends, he told young Palpatine he was over 100.

I like the idea of him pulling strings, but I also like the idea of him investigating the twins because he’s also been doing experiments to extend/create life.

 

[Suger Mag]

Why does his age need to be tweaked? He doesn’t have a canon birthdate as far as I know. In Legends, he told young Palpatine he was over 100.

I like the idea of him pulling strings, but I also like the idea of him investigating the twins because he’s also been doing experiments to extend/create life.

I agree the age/timeline should be fine. Muuns live over a hundred years. We are in theory about 100 years before Phantom Menace. It would figure if Plageius was obsessed about life extension that he would be pretty old at the time that Palpatine becomes his apprentice, and perhaps older than normal due to his experiments

It would not make sense to me if Plageius was involved in the twins creation, but I could see him finding out through Qmir and then the whole idea of the twins are going to be important for him and his goals of life and will lead to Anakin

 

[HokieRaven5]

I think Qimir could’ve been Plagueis’ first subject in preserving life. Qimir’s quotes about him being a Jedi a long time ago, and Vernestra’s surprise at him still being alive hint at that possibility.

 

[BrianL]

I rewatched the finale, which has been helpful with this show when it comes to understanding, thoug that's not exactly a rigining endoresement of it's narrative structure. Still....

I find that I understand it a little better. What seem like quick character turns really are not, if you look at it from a certain point of view (an important concept for Star Wars). It had seemed like Osha kind of abruptly changed, as did Mae, but if you do take them as the same person, then it makes more sense. She says she is not her sister, but basically if Mae would do it, then Osha would do it. Mae seemed like "the bad one" but in reality, all of those things - from torturing small animals to killing for The Stranger - Osha would do those things too. She seems to be annoyed by Mae, but don't we all have aspects of ourselves that we don't love? I think that really works if you just picture every scene as Mae OR Osha - it could be either and work. I wish they had explored that a little more, but wrapping my head around it helps the narrative.

What I still don't like though, and this is more of a commentary than a critique, but treating it as if Osha has done the right thing here. It is not and never will be the right thing. Sure, it's what she wants, but what she wants is selfish and evil. That is not to be celebrated. Some have called her journey "triumphant" (I'm looking at you Leslie), but it is nothing but a failure. It's a failure to do better. I am not sure it is a "fall to the Dark Side" so to speak, as it seems that Osha has always been dark. I believe she was born of the Dark Side, that the coven practiced the Dark Side - even if they didn't call it that - and she has always lived with that hate and rage. You see her trying to overcome that though, but in the end she couldn't. Maybe it wasn't possible at all. The vilification of Sol makes that even more of a bitter pill to swallow. I am not on Osha's side here.

So, that's my final take on it. As a whole it wasn't bad or anything, but it left too many things up int he air. Unless that actually get a second season, I feel the story is woefully incomplete. I mean, it's always one thing to leave a few open doors, but this is more like not finishing an entire wall. I would like a second season too, but I'd like to see some changes made.

 

[gsdweller]

From a grand overarching view of things, none of these characters should or would be considered true Jedi. They are weak, self serving, and have no honor. The only real Jedi in the entire show was the Padenwan that got killed off.

If any of them had really lived what they vowed to do, they would have admitted their failures and taken their punishment like someone with a backbone.

I am guessing the people that write this show are equally just as weak, wishy washy and gutless in their real lives.

 

[BrianL]

From a grand overarching view of things, none of these characters should or would be considered true Jedi. They are weak, self serving, and have no honor. The only real Jedi in the entire show was the Padenwan that got killed off.

If any of them had really lived what they vowed to do, they would have admitted their failures and taken their punishment like someone with a backbone.

I am guessing the people that write this show are equally just as weak, wishy washy and gutless in their real lives.

It's not like there haven't been bad Jedi before who did things against the teachings. There was one I can recall...Anakin Sky-something I think was his name. Yes, this show focused on some bad Jedi, though they are bad to varying degrees. Sol at least acted in good faith, but he should have come clean and not deferred to Indara. Indara and Vernestra were the worst, furthering the conspiracy. Torbin was a screw-up, but he suffered for it, so at least he know. I am not sure Kelnacca really did antyhing other than get mind-controlled. You are right though,Jeckie rules and Yord was a fine Jedi, other than being a bit stodgy. Remember that the show was told from a Stih perspective, so that's exactly what it was supposed to be. It's a challenge to our preconcieved notions, which isn't in itself a bad thing. How successful it was at doing so is certainly debateably and I have some misgivings about that myself. Still, there is no reason to cast aspersions on the writers, etc. Their real lives have nothing to do with it!

 

[gsdweller]

This show was bad at every turn. It was right in line with all the terrible animated films they have pit out lately. A second season will be a nightmare for them financially. Hopefully it will just fade away and be forgotten just like the Christmas special.

 

[Suger Mag]

I rewatched the finale, which has been helpful with this show when it comes to understanding, thoug that's not exactly a rigining endoresement of it's narrative structure. Still....

I find that I understand it a little better. What seem like quick character turns really are not, if you look at it from a certain point of view (an important concept for Star Wars). It had seemed liek Osha kind of abruptly changed, as did Mae, but if you do take them as the same person, then it makes more sense. She says she is not her sister, but basically if Mae would do it, then Osha would do it. Mae seemed like "the bad one" but in reality, all of those things - from torturing small animals to killing for The Stranger - Osha would do those things too. She seems to be annoyed by Mae, but don't we all have aspects of ourselves that we don't love? I think that really works if you just picture every scene as Mae OR Osha - it could be either and work. I wish they had explored that a little more, but wrapping my head around it helps the narrative.

i have not done my rewatch yet, but that is definitely along my way of thinking. They are parts of a whole... not separate entities


Another thought I had

Spoiler

In the beginning of the show, it was remarked upon that Sol did not draw his saber until absolutely necessary when dealing with the umbramoth. Sol was skilled in battle (bested Qmir both times), and he was especially skilled defensive wise, in every battle he puts his saber away at some points. Even with his final battle with Qmir when he did the force block against the spinning sabers he put his saber away. I thin that was because of his regret about his quick to draw and stab reaction and killing Mother Anisaya.

 

[Suger Mag]

Jedi are not gods. Neither are the Sith. WHile yes in each group there are individuals who are polar and aligned with the total light... or total dark. In reality there are lots of spectrum in between... some more light... some more dark.

Jedi/Sith are just 'people' (can't say humans LOL) but they are not infallible and perfect, but they have real frailties and that they are susceptible to mistakes, doubt, fear. This is not a new concept to the Acolyte... it has been in pretty much EVERY Star Wars film... Lucus included. The message has never been to be perfect... but to be brave and in the face of danger stand by your friends and team that is the Jedi way

 

[BrianL]

i have not done my rewatch yet, but that is definitely along my way of thinking. They are parts of a whole... not separate entities


Another thought I had

Spoiler

In the beginning of the show, it was remarked upon that Sol did not draw his saber until absolutely necessary when dealing with the umbramoth. Sol was skilled in battle (bested Qmir both times), and he was especially skilled defensive wise, in every battle he puts his saber away at some points. Even with his final battle with Qmir when he did the force block against the spinning sabers he put his saber away. I thin that was because of his regret about his quick to draw and stab reaction and killing Mother Anisaya.

One thing I read that connected some dots for me....

Osha's fall was telegraphed early because she could never be defensive. She couldn't use The Force to block. It was always offense. Sol on the other hand is very defense-oriented. That's why it could never work. It makes sense, but I wish the show had done a better job of conveying that.

 

[nancipants]

This show was bad at every turn. It was right in line with all the terrible animated films they have pit out lately. A second season will be a nightmare for them financially. Hopefully it will just fade away and be forgotten just like the Christmas special.

What animated films have they put out lately?

 

[Suger Mag]

One thing I read that connected some dots for me....

Osha's fall was telegraphed early because she could never be defensive. She couldn't use The Force to block. It was always offense. Sol on the other hand is very defense-oriented. That's why it could never work. It makes sense, but I wish the show had done a better job of conveying that.

that is an interesting point. I remember that bit, and yes that makes sense

 

[BrianL]

What animated films have they put out lately?

I think he means things like Wish and Strange World - Disney films. I don't think he is including Inside Out 2 though....

 

[gsdweller]

... but to be brave and in the face of danger stand by your friends and team that is the Jedi way

That is exactly what no one did in this series.

 

[Suger Mag]

That is exactly what no one did in this series.

I disagree. Pretty much everyone died doing just that. But you may see it differently.

 

[BrianL]

I disagree. Pretty much everyone died doing just that. But you may see it differently.

Well, some did maybe, but there were definitely a lot of people not doing that - Osha in particular, who was the star of the show. However, not all Star Wars has to have that either. I mean, Andor doesn't really exemplify that, and nobody would criticise it for such. Bounty hunters don't do it. Star Wars can be a lot of things. In this one we see some Jedi who don't live up to their ideals (and many that do). This has happened before - Dooku, Pon Krell, Anakin. Even those who don't fall to the Dark Side have sometimes made mistakes or kept things from teh Council, Sifo-Dias for example. While one may not like the narrative- heck, I'm not crazy about shows that focus on the bad guys - there's nothing in it that is really out-of-line for Star Wars.

 

[Suger Mag]

Well, some did maybe, but there were definitely a lot of people not doing that - Osha in particular, who was the star of the show. However, not all Star Wars has to have that either. I mean, Andor doesn't really exemplify that, and nobody would criticise it for such. Bounty hunters don't do it. Star Wars can be a lot of things. In this one we see some Jedi who don't live up to their ideals (and many that do). This has happened before - Dooku, Pon Krell, Anakin. Even those who don't fall to the Dark Side have sometimes made mistakes or kept things from teh Council, Sifo-Dias for example. While one may not like the narrative- heck, I'm not crazy about shows that focus on the bad guys - there's nothing in it that is really out-of-line for Star Wars.

I am speaking about the Jedi in the Acolyte as the statement to which I was responding was that no one in the Acolyte did that... being brave and support the team.... And I was disagreeing. You may not like the motivations but all of the people who died... with the exception of the witches .... were Jedi... and even then the witches died bravely fighting for their lifestyle. Osha was not a Jedi, and she lived. But the Jedi who died... they died fighting for their friends, trying to apprehend the people who killed Jedi or being attacked due to supporting their friends.



Indara was put in a bad position and she is getting flack that I dont think she deserved. She wanted to leave... she wanted to not take the twins, to not interfere... and she never outright attacked the witches, she merely tried to save Kelnacca. Unfortunately she had to clean up the mess created by Torbin and Sol who set off and attacked and burned the place down. After that happened she was faced with a bad or a worse decision... abandon Osha and Sol.... or tell a partial truth.

 

[BrianL]

I am speaking about the Jedi in the Acolyte as the statement to which I was responding was that no one in the Acolyte did that... being brave and support the team.... And I was disagreeing. You may not like the motivations but all of the people who died... with the exception of the witches .... were Jedi... and even then the witches died bravely fighting for their lifestyle. Osha was not a Jedi, and she lived. But the Jedi who died... they died fighting for their friends or being attacked due to supporting their friends.



Indara was put in a bad position and she is getting flack that I dont think she deserved. She wanted to leave... she wanted to not take the twins, to not interfere... and she never outright attacked the witches. Unfortunately she had to clean up the mess created by Torbin and Sol who set off and attacked and burned the place down. After that happened she was faced with a bad or a worse decision... abandon Osha and Sol.... or tell a partial truth.

Well, sure the Jedi died fighting for their friends - who had done a bad thing. I'm not counting the nameless Jedi on the team that the Stranger slaughtered, but the named characters all made huge mistakes and did not live up to the Jedi way. If Indara had come clean I would give her a pass, but the cover-up was her idea and that's just as bad. I don't really have a problem with Jedi making mistakes though from a story standpoint - they're not perfect. It's not like Anakin was running to tell the council after the sand people incident.

 

[Suger Mag]

Well, sure the JEdi died fighting for their friends - who had done a bad thing. I'm not counting the nameless Jedi on the team that the Stranger slaughtered, but the named characters all made huge mistakes and did not live up to the Jedi way. If Indara had come clean I would give her a pass, but the cover-up was her idea and that's just as bad. I don't really have a problem with Jedi making mistakes though from a story standpoint - they're not perfect. It's not like Anakin was running to tell the council after the sand people incident.

LOL then that would have been a very short show... kinda like Anisaya leading with Osha can go be a Jedi... could have should have....