Star Wars land Rumor- Reported by Disney Gossip

[Pumbaa7287]

One of the greatest action stories and motion picture franchises (at least until 1999) in history...and the rockin dodge caravan is what they came up with...

so no...i'm not a fan of the Liberty Travel take on Star Wars...

but to each their own i guess.

Lol, do you make any happy posts?

Life's too short

 

[tjkraz]

Alright...I'll play...let's hear it

Why should I bother investing the time and energy? Based upon the broad generalizations and overall tone of your post, as I said it's pretty obvious that you aren't interested in an objective analysis.

 

[nytimez]

Lol, do you make any happy posts?

Life's too short

Not to jump in here, but I'm going to guess you're young or optimistic. Or both. And I don't mean that as an insult. But I think if you take the long view, from those of us who've been going to the parks for 30+ years, it's really hard to be truly happy about the overall pace of development at WDW.

Fantasyland Expansion was a total fiasco that has been somewhat rescued by the last-minute addition of the Snow White ride. The new Star Wars ride sounds like it will be neither new nor innovative. And while there have been some "hits" over the years, WDW is turning into a classic rock act -- it's getting by on long-ago hits, but can't produce any new material that's worthwhile.

I'm exaggerating -- some of the new things have been worthwhile. Some have been truly innovative. But we're seeing those things less and less, and getting the nickel-and-dime approach instead... just changing the video in Star Wars, essentially, instead of giving us a completely new attraction, in the current example. Or, as mentioned in another thread, changing the decoration in the hotel rooms to charge more money for them. And so on.

Will it keep me away? No. Not in the near term. But if the next few years are like the previous few years, I can't imagine that I'll be going as often as I have in the past.

 

[Pumbaa7287]

Not to jump in here, but I'm going to guess you're young or optimistic. Or both. And I don't mean that as an insult. But I think if you take the long view, from those of us who've been going to the parks for 30+ years, it's really hard to be truly happy about the overall pace of development at WDW.

Fantasyland Expansion was a total fiasco that has been somewhat rescued by the last-minute addition of the Snow White ride. The new Star Wars ride sounds like it will be neither new nor innovative. And while there have been some "hits" over the years, WDW is turning into a classic rock act -- it's getting by on long-ago hits, but can't produce any new material that's worthwhile.

I'm exaggerating -- some of the new things have been worthwhile. Some have been truly innovative. But we're seeing those things less and less, and getting the nickel-and-dime approach instead... just changing the video in Star Wars, essentially, instead of giving us a completely new attraction, in the current example. Or, as mentioned in another thread, changing the decoration in the hotel rooms to charge more money for them. And so on.

Will it keep me away? No. Not in the near term. But if the next few years are like the previous few years, I can't imagine that I'll be going as often as I have in the past.

Both young and optimistic. Also been going to the parks for 20+ years, and love every trip as much as I loved the first one, but perhaps I'm too forgiving. The only unforgivable thing that Disney has done to me was close the Adventurer's Club. I have to get by watching my old DVD of all the shows now.

I just don't get all the negativity. Maybe because I don't see Disney as the only place to travel in the world, so I don't feel like I'm entitled to getting a new E-Ticket every year like some people do. A lot of the excitement for me is the nostalgia of it. I was sad that Star Tours was getting an update. It was getting old and stale, sure, but it was an amazing childhood memory for me. Same with the Snow White ride.

Sadly, I don't own Disney, or DVC, so I don't really have a say in what happens in the parks. Just like I don't own a stake in the Red Sox, so I could have yelled at Theo about the Lackey signing. I suppose I see the idea of going to Disney and enjoying myself as a privilege still, and enjoying the product they produce as a privilege. Other people feel like Disney owes it to them to change things, but I'm just happy with the way things are.

And I'm talking in circles. I like the status quo. My life won't be dramatically affected by the theming of a ride. If it ever gets boring enough, which I don't see happening, but who knows, then I'll stop going. And when enough people do that, that's when it will change.

Now that we've gone sufficiently off-topic, maybe we can talk some more about Star Tours

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Lol, do you make any happy posts?

Life's too short

sure...when warranted.

but when i think of the direction of WDW in particular...the word that comes to mind is "malaise"
kinda a problem

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Why should I bother investing the time and energy? Based upon the broad generalizations and overall tone of your post, as I said it's pretty obvious that you aren't interested in an objective analysis.

Because you're implying that i am either mistaken or misrepresenting the facts...and therefore I'm all ears

To think that i'm a novice at interpreting the climate and direction of WDW...would be a "disservice"

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Not to jump in here, but I'm going to guess you're young or optimistic. Or both. And I don't mean that as an insult. But I think if you take the long view, from those of us who've been going to the parks for 30+ years, it's really hard to be truly happy about the overall pace of development at WDW.

Fantasyland Expansion was a total fiasco that has been somewhat rescued by the last-minute addition of the Snow White ride. The new Star Wars ride sounds like it will be neither new nor innovative. And while there have been some "hits" over the years, WDW is turning into a classic rock act -- it's getting by on long-ago hits, but can't produce any new material that's worthwhile.

I'm exaggerating -- some of the new things have been worthwhile. Some have been truly innovative. But we're seeing those things less and less, and getting the nickel-and-dime approach instead... just changing the video in Star Wars, essentially, instead of giving us a completely new attraction, in the current example. Or, as mentioned in another thread, changing the decoration in the hotel rooms to charge more money for them. And so on.

Will it keep me away? No. Not in the near term. But if the next few years are like the previous few years, I can't imagine that I'll be going as often as I have in the past.

That ball is high....it is far....it is GONE! Oh...the Grandy man can!

 

[Pumbaa7287]

That ball is high....it is far....it is GONE! Oh...the Grandy man can!

I appreciated nytimez post because it was insightful, and actually made a point. Posts like this do yourself a 'disservice.'

You (or someone) said a few posts back that Everest was a convincing failure. Why is that? It's one of my favorite rides in the parks, whether the Yeti is there or not, or moving or not. I actually find it thrilling that I won't know whether or not I'll see him every trip through. Either way, the ride itself, with it's speed, and turns and surprises, is enough to get me on it over and over.

Midway Mania is an amazing ride, even though I find it to be an updated version of Buzz, which they can now hopefully change to something else (Tron maybe).

The technology for the Crush and Monster's show may not be as cutting edge as you like, but it's pretty darn cool, as are the new proposed effects in the Haunted Mansion. I love Journey into Imagination too. Figment's my boy.

I suppose all in all, I just wanted to say that not everyone is upset that the ride theme of Star Tours was changed, and that people who make Disney out to be uninventive and boring are, in my opinion, as wrong as can be.

Some people will always be able to find something wrong. If the food is amazing, it's too expensive. If it's cheap, it tastes bad. If the new rides are cool, the old ones need to be fixed. If the old ones are being fixed there isn't enough new stuff.

I still see Disney primarily as a park for children. When I want real thrill rides and action, I go to Universal, and that's always been my perspective. Maybe that's not what you'd like to do, but different perspectives are what makes the world such a groovy place.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Just like I don't own a stake in the Red Sox, so I could have yelled at Theo about the Lackey signing. I suppose I see the idea of going to Disney and enjoying myself as a privilege still, and enjoying the product they produce as a privilege. Other people feel like Disney owes it to them to change things, but I'm just happy with the way things are.

the last 10 days are the only days since December of 2009 that i HAVEN'T been ticked about the lackey signing

But i guess i do "own" some of disney - on multiple levels - but that isn't why i'm so critical.

I see disney as a "corporate entity" primarily since their acquisition of ABC in 1995...and being such - i don't trust their motives at all. I wish it were not a public company...because as has been demonstrated over the last 30 years or so is that you simply cannot trust an american corporation. Because their goal is ultimately to cut corners on their products to achieve maximum profit for a small group of powerful owners and managers.

I don't know how anyone who looks at things with a level perspective - even if they benefit from this system - can come to a different conclusion. It's outta control, its standard proceedure, and its also now institutionalized.

Back to WDW and TWDC...
I don't like how important the revenue has become...perhaps that was always the point...but if true then we the consumers are losing moving forward.

Let's run down the list of what we've seen the last ten years or so:

Pleasure Island - a WDW run guest area, shuttered to allow for "Hyperion Wharf" - an entirely third party outsourced "exciting shopping and dining experience" uh huh

DVC, DVC, and more DVC. longterm committments to hotel rooms with smaller overhead offset by yearly fees...guaranteeing revenue in other market segments and repeat experienced clientele

Expansion of retail shops and locations along with the concurrent streamlining and cheapening of what is contained there in. "disney parks" tshirt, anyone?

The dining plan - again, upfront guaranteed revenue that allows the traveler to mentally show up with disposable cash to be spent on more food or more than likely - low overhead merchandise - because the food is "included" and has since already been paid for long ago and out of the mind. and i'm not even going to bother talk about reduction of food quality and increase of out of pocket prices that happened/ is happening subsequently...but that isn't a job for sherlock holmes to figure out either

The magical express...a "free" service that takes rental cars and with it - consumer freedom - out of the WDW hotels. that one is genius.

Fastpass...reduction of wait times that allows for less "non-profit" times spent in lines and...you guessed it...more "profit" times, per consumer, per day. At least that one is mutually beneficial

Mandatory rate and ticket increases....but that's too be expected...regardless of economic conditions.

Outsourcing of more restaurant, food locations...particularly in animal kingdom and EPCOT

as as i originally mentioned...a significant reduction in new attractions to the WDW complex on the whole...because new rides and shows don't increase revenue...as all these other things do.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I appreciated nytimez post because it was insightful, and actually made a point. Posts like this do yourself a 'disservice.'

That post was for NYTimez...translation "i agree totally" I was using John Sterling, the semi-senile voice of the NY Yankees to illustrate my point. Lighten up.

You (or someone) said a few posts back that Everest was a convincing failure. Why is that? It's one of my favorite rides in the parks, whether the Yeti is there or not, or moving or not. I actually find it thrilling that I won't know whether or not I'll see him every trip through. Either way, the ride itself, with it's speed, and turns and surprises, is enough to get me on it over and over.

It was me. The ride can only be considered successful if the "imagineering" elements of it work as a disney ride should. and that is the YETI...which doesn't even work at all...so i would say that is a failure. without the yeti and the disney touches, its is merely a low technology steel coaster that had a stated cost of $120 million when it was announced in 2002...but probably is closer to 200 million - as WDW attractions have been victim to runnng overbudget in recent years. What they have is a highly overpriced off the shelf dark ride...which in no way made animal kingdom more that what it was: a half day park. sorry

Midway Mania is an amazing ride, even though I find it to be an updated version of Buzz, which they can now hopefully change to something else (Tron maybe).

It is a good ride...as i stated. It's not groundbreaking, but a good family type ride.

The technology for the Crush and Monster's show may not be as cutting edge as you like, but it's pretty darn cool, as are the new proposed effects in the Haunted Mansion. I love Journey into Imagination too. Figment's my boy.

Journey into imagination is a complete failure...and you won't find very many (if any) allies if you are going to try to take the opposite side here. The haunted mansion tweaks are cool...but they are still tweaks to a ride i already go on...not an addition. And crush and laugh floor are good tests bed for that technology...no question. But i'm gonna say that the best has yet to come with responsive computer animation.

I suppose all in all, I just wanted to say that not everyone is upset that the ride theme of Star Tours was changed, and that people who make Disney out to be uninventive and boring are, in my opinion, as wrong as can be.

Perhaps...but those of thus who think that star tours is a ridiculous way to use that licensed material...and has always been pretty lowgrade...aren't wrong either

Some people will always be able to find something wrong. If the food is amazing, it's too expensive. If it's cheap, it tastes bad. If the new rides are cool, the old ones need to be fixed. If the old ones are being fixed there isn't enough new stuff.

I agree...but to say that there is always complaints (which i found out daily as a WDW employee) doesn't mean there isn't a bigger problem or the need for corrective action.

I still see Disney primarily as a park for children. When I want real thrill rides and action, I go to Universal, and that's always been my perspective. Maybe that's not what you'd like to do, but different perspectives are what makes the world such a groovy place.

Then with all due respect...you are doing yourself a supreme disservice. Disney is not a park for children...its for everyone. There's a fairly famous quote by some guy named Disney from the 1950's about that.

 

[tjkraz]

Very good post, Pumbaa7287.

Let's run down the list of what we've seen the last ten years or so:

<snip>

as as i originally mentioned...a significant reduction in new attractions to the WDW complex on the whole...because new rides and shows don't increase revenue...as all these other things do.

Just because Disney makes changes which are designed to improve the bottom line doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad for its customers. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Some of those items are certainly legitimate issues--but then Disney doesn't hold a monopoly on making decisions of which its customers did not approve. You are grasping at straws in trying to portray things like DME and FastPass as bad for consumers. Many of the supposedly evil outsourced restaurants have excellent reputations (Via Napoli, Les Chefs de France, Yak & Yeti...)

But why gloss over the attractions so quickly since that's where your criticism began?

You were quick to bring up a Universal comparison and praise them for building six attractions in a decade.

Now make an honest list of everything Disney has done to enhance its parks in the past 10 years. Consider brand new attractions (Philharmagic, Everest, Mission Space, Soarin, LMA, TSM, American Idol, Laugh Floor, Seas with Nemo, etc), attractions which have been "plussed" to varying degrees (Haunted Mansion, HoP, PotC, ToT, Gran Fiesta Tour, Spaceship Earth, Epcot pavilion films, etc.), new parades and fireworks displays, new street performers, interactive queues, virtual experiences like Kim Possible, technology integration (on-line dining reservations, Verizon mobile app) and so on. All designed to enhance the overall theme park experience.

Has Universal made any changes or upgrades to its roster of tired licensed properties (ET, Twister, Terminator, Beetlejuice...)?

As for its newer attractions, I don't see anything particularly groundbreaking in most of them (Shrek, Men in Black, Rockit, Simpsons). The Mummy is an excellent coaster...one that's unfortunately saddled with an increasingly irrelevant property and ridiculous video clips shown at the end.

But as I said initially, you really aren't interested in being objective. That becomes more apparent with every post.

I'm certainly in favor of holding Disney to a higher standard than its competitors--which you are obviously doing. But if you're going to selectively ignore many accomplishments and offer back-handed compliments (at best) to others, there really is no point to this discussion.

 

[nytimez]

That post was for NYTimez...translation "i agree totally" I was using John Sterling, the semi-senile voice of the NY Yankees to illustrate my point. Lighten up.

You're something sort of Grandish!

Just because Disney makes changes which are designed to improve the bottom line doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad for its customers. The two are not mutually exclusive.

They are not. And the parks would not be there at all at this point if they didn't contribute to the bottom line. I think everyone accepts that.

But there comes a point where the relentless drive to squeeze cash out of every corner of every park becomes excessive and crass, and I think we've reached it.

There's no denying that you get less for your money than ever before, that the $30 cheap shirts are thin and cheaply made and that the merchandise has become homogenized to the point where nearly every gift shop looks the same... although I will concede that over the past year I've seen some positive steps to bring back some -- some -- unique and interesting items here and there.

Nothing I'll celebrate yet, but something that I have noticed and hope they do more of.

But as I said initially, you really aren't interested in being objective. That becomes more apparent with every post.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'm not interested in being objective either. Neither are you. Objectivity doesn't exist -- all our points of view here are subjective.

 

[tjkraz]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'm not interested in being objective either. Neither are you. Objectivity doesn't exist -- all our points of view here are subjective.

That's a cop out.

It's possible to analyze and compare with much more objectivity than what we have seen here.

If posters don't at least make an honest effort, they quickly lose their credibility.

 

[nytimez]

That's a cop out.

It's possible to analyze and compare with much more objectivity than what we have seen here.

If posters don't at least make an honest effort, they quickly lose their credibility.

Umm... right. So I guess you get to decide who you is making an "honest effort" in this (or any other) debate? And people who don't meet your standard lack credibility?

Sounds to me like that's the cop out.

 

[skier_pete]

For the record I am not young nor optimistic, I'm 41 and very cynical. I've been to WDW in every decade of it's existence. And i can tell you i enjoy it more with every visit, even knowing the flaws and places it has gotten worse. IDK why i continue to defend the place against the negative folks that never have anything nice to say, and even couch the positive s in negativity. All i can say is i feel bad that you dislike disney so much yet appear to keep going. I couldn't do that.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Just because Disney makes changes which are designed to improve the bottom line doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad for its customers. The two are not mutually exclusive. .

Agree...nor is the opposite case true...WWI style stalemate here.

Some of those items are certainly legitimate issues--but then Disney doesn't hold a monopoly on making decisions of which its customers did not approve. You are grasping at straws in trying to portray things like DME and FastPass as bad for consumers. Many of the supposedly evil outsourced restaurants have excellent reputations (Via Napoli, Les Chefs de France, Yak & Yeti...)

I don't really care if everybody does it...that was never my claim. I don't like that disney does it. guilty.
I didn't say evil outsourced...i said outsourced. that is done to shift responsibility for staffing to a third party and just collect fees. nothing illegal about that...but it just highlights that disney cannot staff because they will not pay. That i do know...no offense.
And the restaurants are landry's...by and large. nothing necessarily bad in the reputation but also not necessarily memorable. And chefs de france is a little different...so we'll just throw that one out. Think "Hyperion Wharf" and then look at the outsourcing trend...i'm just commenting on the trend...some will probably be good...some will be bad.

But why gloss over the attractions so quickly since that's where your criticism began?

Ohhh...i love this...

You were quick to bring up a Universal comparison and praise them for building six attractions in a decade.

No...i am just saying they are putting effort in...and since we all hold disney to a higher level...their actions should be a little higher level. Which i actually included in my post and disclaimed what i think about the "competitor" market in florida...but somehow it didn't make it onto this one.

Now make an honest list of everything Disney has done to enhance its parks in the past 10 years. Consider brand new attractions (Philharmagic, Everest, Mission Space, Soarin, LMA, TSM, American Idol, Laugh Floor, Seas with Nemo, etc), attractions which have been "plussed" to varying degrees (Haunted Mansion, HoP, PotC, ToT, Gran Fiesta Tour, Spaceship Earth, Epcot pavilion films, etc.), new parades and fireworks displays, new street performers, interactive queues, virtual experiences like Kim Possible, technology integration (on-line dining reservations, Verizon mobile app) and so on. All designed to enhance the overall theme park experience.

Woah...woah...verizon apps?
we grasping alittle, ain't we? something you pay VERIZON 13 bucks a year for?
Ok
Philharmagic: Good
Everest: Fail...we discussed this...and sorry...that's what it is
Mission Space: I actually forgot it was there...but let's just say its had it's "issues". notably the lawsuit against the third party manufacturer who came up with the hardware and the...umm..."health" thing. But for the purposes here...it was a REPLACEMENT, not an addition. 1-1+1=1
Soarin...clone but a good one...of course they did have to eliminate food rocks to do it...but still a good overall net
LMA...clone. not a bad show...but it has little repeat value because if you've seen it...you're seen it.
Toy story mania: good...i covered that
laugh/ floor: good...if low impact to the overall appeal of the park
Nemo: great...but it is the same ride that sat in mothballs for years
american idol: i just can't even go there

and as you said: plussing....which is good but necessary as all rides inevitable have to be taken offline for rehab.

which new fireworks? the magic kingdom ones i assume...because all the others have 12+ years on the tires now. parades are great...but again, often rehashed and repetititive.

so yeah...i'm gonna go ahead and hold firm on my assessment. not even bringing up the closing of wonders of life and the shutdown of an entire gated guest area...we'll leave that for another longwinded rant.

good greif...i just saw the "online dining reservation" one....yeah...the two guys that put that website together musta caught billions...

Has Universal made any changes or upgrades to its roster of tired licensed properties (ET, Twister, Terminator, Beetlejuice...)?

As for its newer attractions, I don't see anything particularly groundbreaking in most of them (Shrek, Men in Black, Rockit, Simpsons). The Mummy is an excellent coaster...one that's unfortunately saddled with an increasingly irrelevant property and ridiculous video clips shown at the end.

I am just going to reconfirm that Disney should be a higher standard...not only because they were first doing this and invented most of the modern themepark system....but also because they make gobs more cash off it. My point is that universal has actually done alot considering they've been bought and sold and in and out of financial troubles almost constantly...yet still see the value in offering more for their customers. disney does too...but not to a superior level. and if you want to talk like the best...back it up.

But as I said initially, you really aren't interested in being objective. That becomes more apparent with every post.

I'm certainly in favor of holding Disney to a higher standard than its competitors--which you are obviously doing. But if you're going to selectively ignore many accomplishments and offer back-handed compliments (at best) to others, there really is no point to this discussion.

The selective ignoring bug seems to be going around here. I made a comparison between the last 10+ years of the WDW operation and the previous 30...so it's not backhanded or inappropriate. i can go through and develop a rating system of some sort and waste 20000 words describing the trend...but it isn't needed. I made the theory...i have basis to make it...and as others have already responded, i'm not alone in my opinion. I don't force you to share it...merely be respectful and not attempt to lecture with "disservice" quips. It's inappropriate to judge someone while "selectively" looking at their position and then crying foul. That's kinda what happened here. It's done but it should be said.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

For the record I am not young nor optimistic, I'm 41 and very cynical. I've been to WDW in every decade of it's existence. And i can tell you i enjoy it more with every visit, even knowing the flaws and places it has gotten worse. IDK why i continue to defend the place against the negative folks that never have anything nice to say, and even couch the positive s in negativity. All i can say is i feel bad that you dislike disney so much yet appear to keep going. I couldn't do that.

And this is where my concern squarely lands....should we now start to accept flaws and declining product as status quo?

Because that is a really dangerous idea...for the mouse...not just we "disgruntled".

And i always like to point out that just because you question something...doesn't mean you don't love it.

Many people much smarter and more famous than I have voiced that in speech and print over the course of history...some might consider it a higher form of love than unquestioning devotion.

I'm with them.

 

[tjkraz]

Umm... right. So I guess you get to decide who you is making an "honest effort" in this (or any other) debate? And people who don't meet your standard lack credibility?

Sounds to me like that's the cop out.

It isn't difficult to apply the same standards to two sides of an argument.

Disney gets 1000 words of point-by-point criticism and Universal gets an "at least they're trying." Deep.

Disney is being criticized for lack of innovation and my mention of on-line ADRs and the Verizon app is summarily dismissed. Are these the most complicated projects in the world to implement? No. But is anyone else doing it?!?! At the end of the day, aren't those examples of exactly what we expect from Disney--ground breaking enhancements to the theme park experience.

Is complete objectivity possible? No but when the comments are so blatantly subjective with no real attempt to compare / contrast, it comes across as little more than negative fanboy stuff. Legitimate complaints get lost in all the bluster. Most readers just roll their eyes and move on--not because we subscribe to the idea that "Disney can do no wrong" but because we simply don't buy into the apparent "Disney can't do anything right" mantra.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It isn't difficult to apply the same standards to two sides of an argument.

Disney gets 1000 words of point-by-point criticism and Universal gets an "at least they're trying." Deep.

Disney is being criticized for lack of innovation and my mention of on-line ADRs and the Verizon app is summarily dismissed. Are these the most complicated projects in the world to implement? No. But is anyone else doing it?!?! At the end of the day, aren't those examples of exactly what we expect from Disney--ground breaking enhancements to the theme park experience.

Is complete objectivity possible? No but when the comments are so blatantly subjective with no real attempt to compare / contrast, it comes across as little more than negative fanboy stuff. Legitimate complaints get lost in all the bluster. Most readers just roll their eyes and move on--not because we subscribe to the idea that "Disney can do no wrong" but because we simply don't buy into the apparent "Disney can't do anything right" mantra.

First, you can't speak for "most readers"...some i'm sure are in near total agreement with you...some are in near total disagreement. So to complain about generalizations and then MAKE ONE in the counter is a little off.

And hey...the verizon thing is cool...but i would venture that was more verizon programming it than disney. disney fails at web applications...which brings me to the online ADR thing. First...that is to make money...so of course we're ok there with motivation...but second, online dining reservations have been around for 15 years now. Not exactly cutting edge...in fact laughable that it took so long. Eventually i'll be able to book my DVC room online...roughly 20 years after i could book a days inn.

And disney is not a poor little kid being picked on here. They are always asking for guest feedback. I'm giving it here...as i do with the surveys they bombard me with. Their investment in WDW is not good enough. China?..great...Paris?..ok...California?..fantastic
Florida? Not good enough.

And instead of playing the victim...simply go back on wikipedia or any of 1000 disney fan sites and look at the types and frequency of additions that occured over the first 30 years as compared to the last 10+. They are average one new addition of significance to each park every 3-5 years now. And that isn't good enough.

I'll map it out:

Studios - Rock n Roller Coaster 1999 - Stunt Show - 2005 Midway Mania 2009

Animal Kingdom - Chester And Hester's Embarassorama - 2002 Everest, Nemo Stage show (minus tarzan show) 2005

Epcot - Mission Space (minus horizons) 2004 - Soarin 2005...Turtle Talk 2006...all other work are rehabs or corrections...such as the nemo ride and in the case of wonders of life...they just quit on it.

Magic Kingdom - Magic Carpets of Aladdin 2002 (got a bulk rate on those babies) - Laugh Floor 2005 - Current Expansion of Fantasyland

Look, i've gone too many rounds on this already. My contention is that they are not doing enough to maintain the quality of their parks to the consumer. Universal and Sea World, etc is really only used to point out that the industry has continued to put money into attractions...just not really the leader.

They have put much time and construction materials into DVC, food and merchandise...this cannot be disputed. But those additons are for revenue purposes only and offer no return of value to much of the 50 million annual visitors that pay 3-7% increases in tickets, hotel rooms, and purchases...compounded annually.

And i own DVC!...so its good for me. But i would rather they get back to what they stated: using the "blessing of size" in Florida to provide world class family entertainment...instead of just strapping the cash cow to the barn and whipping it repeatedly.

I'd much rather see an addtion to animal kingdom than the Grand Floridian Villas...
...but its gonna be another 5 years until i get that...while the former will be breaking ground within the next year (not exactly an incredibly difficult guess)

That ain't right. But as i said you don't have to agree

 

[skier_pete]

And this is where my concern squarely lands....should we now start to accept flaws and declining product as status quo?

Because that is a really dangerous idea...for the mouse...not just we "disgruntled".

And i always like to point out that just because you question something...doesn't mean you don't love it.

Many people much smarter and more famous than I have voiced that in speech and print over the course of history...some might consider it a higher form of love than unquestioning devotion.

I'm with them.

LockedOutLogic - I am not really targeting this at you specificly, just the group of people an here that are always so negative, so please don't take this personally.

But your (and others) attitude, at least in appearance, is that EVERYTHING is worse than it used to be. EVERYTHING. Even when you sort of say something positive you spin it as a negative. For many (maybe most) of us, we see things we wish weren't changing for the worse, but for the most part are pretty happy with the way things are. Some of us (many people) really LIKE the dining plan.

An example (my choice is a bit off topic on purpose): most people think that Expedition Everest is a great ride. The fact that the Yeti doesn't work properly is a shame and a disappointment. However, the negative folks want to paint the ride as an epic disaster and lump it into the "Disney management doesn't care / is incompetent". Yet that opinion can only be categorically placed as being wrong. The vast majority of people that ride the ride LOVE it, and most do not notice that there is even anything WRONG with it. Do you really think the Yeti failure is because of some cop-out of Disney Management? It was an engineering blunder. These happen ALL THE TIME. (I know this because I'm an engineer.) The problem in this case is that (1) its a pretty big blunder in terms of the "show" and (2) the *fix* revolves around a complete and lengthy shut-down of a ride that...as I already pointed out...probably 99 % of the population wouldn't know the difference.

So back to the FLE - for years negative people (I was trying to come up with a phrase to describe them - the "Negative Neds" perhaps?) complain there not adding anything to the parks. Then as soon as they do, the "Neds" come out and bash it, and they modify it even further to improve on justly criticized portions, and the "Neds" continue to bash it. Can you tell me what WOULD make you happy? 12 new rides, 3 new restaurants, and zero new merchadising stores? Nope, then the park would be to crowded because there are too many rides...

And always in the same breadth they praise Universal. Let me put a hypothesis out there...we live in an alternative world where Disney got the rights to Harry Potter. They put it in MK. They took out the speedway and Toon town, converted it to Hogwartsland, rethemed Barnstormer and Space Mountain to a vaguely Harry Potter theme, and added one new motion simulator ride (that would likely not be as thrilling as HP:FJ as it is at WDW not Universal) and added a bunch of themed shops. the "Neds" would RIP Disney apart for that. Does anyone deny it?

Now, please don't say I'm ripping on Universal - what they did with that theme area was brilliant...but they still hedged their bets at its success and managed the costs, as Disney does.

Ya know, I don't know how I managed to stray so far from the original topic....Yeah...Star Wars land...cool idea...probably never gonna happen. Reason: Lucasfilm gets too big a cut.