Star Wars land Rumor- Reported by Disney Gossip

[nytimez]

LockedOutLogic - I am not really targeting this at you specificly, just the group of people an here that are always so negative, so please don't take this personally.

But your (and others) attitude, at least in appearance, is that EVERYTHING is worse than it used to be. EVERYTHING. Even when you sort of say something positive you spin it as a negative. For many (maybe most) of us, we see things we wish weren't changing for the worse, but for the most part are pretty happy with the way things are. Some of us (many people) really LIKE the dining plan.

An example (my choice is a bit off topic on purpose): most people think that Expedition Everest is a great ride. The fact that the Yeti doesn't work properly is a shame and a disappointment. However, the negative folks want to paint the ride as an epic disaster and lump it into the "Disney management doesn't care / is incompetent". Yet that opinion can only be categorically placed as being wrong. The vast majority of people that ride the ride LOVE it, and most do not notice that there is even anything WRONG with it. Do you really think the Yeti failure is because of some cop-out of Disney Management? It was an engineering blunder. These happen ALL THE TIME. (I know this because I'm an engineer.) The problem in this case is that (1) its a pretty big blunder in terms of the "show" and (2) the *fix* revolves around a complete and lengthy shut-down of a ride that...as I already pointed out...probably 99 % of the population wouldn't know the difference.

So back to the FLE - for years negative people (I was trying to come up with a phrase to describe them - the "Negative Neds" perhaps?) complain there not adding anything to the parks. Then as soon as they do, the "Neds" come out and bash it, and they modify it even further to improve on justly criticized portions, and the "Neds" continue to bash it. Can you tell me what WOULD make you happy? 12 new rides, 3 new restaurants, and zero new merchadising stores? Nope, then the park would be to crowded because there are too many rides...

And always in the same breadth they praise Universal. Let me put a hypothesis out there...we live in an alternative world where Disney got the rights to Harry Potter. They put it in MK. They took out the speedway and Toon town, converted it to Hogwartsland, rethemed Barnstormer and Space Mountain to a vaguely Harry Potter theme, and added one new motion simulator ride (that would likely not be as thrilling as HP:FJ as it is at WDW not Universal) and added a bunch of themed shops. the "Neds" would RIP Disney apart for that. Does anyone deny it?

Now, please don't say I'm ripping on Universal - what they did with that theme area was brilliant...but they still hedged their bets at its success and managed the costs, as Disney does.

Ya know, I don't know how I managed to stray so far from the original topic....Yeah...Star Wars land...cool idea...probably never gonna happen. Reason: Lucasfilm gets too big a cut.

Hold on a second -- Why paint me with that massive brush? And assume you mean me since your original post was a response to my "young and optimistic" post.

There are many things I love about the place, and I post about them -- and share tips -- all the time on the Theme Parks board.

But this is the rumors and news board... and I think I'm allowed to dislike the things we're hearing just as much as you're allowed to like them without getting into these ridiculous arguments here over who's more negative or -- as another poster put it, who's making an "honest effort" and, presumably, who is "dishonest" in their efforts.

Yes, I hated FLE when it was first announced. It's not about the number of rides and restaurants, it was about the fact that they were adding a series of extensive girlie meet-and-greets with fairies and princesses instead of real attractions that everyone can enjoy. Heck, I'd take one great E-ticket attraction over 12 mediocre rides any day of the week.

Now, I'm on record as saying FLE is way better with the addition of the Snow White attraction.

But when I don't like something, do I have to list all the things I like and enjoy first in order to enjoy a little respect in this debate -- the same respect I extend to you automatically without dismissing you as being overly positive and optimistic?

PS: When I visited WWOHP in Universal, I was talking to a park manager about it a bit. I told him how I know they created something good when someone like me, who hasn't read a single Harry Potter book and has only caught some of them movies in passing, can look around and appreciate what they've done and enjoy it. Then, I paid him the highest compliment I could -- I said "This looks like something Disney would have created."

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Pete,

I don't praise universal...nor...and this is the big one...even remotely consider them to be a threat to disney. cause they aren't.

But that doesn't change my opinion of disney...they aren't doing enough. i'm sorry...their costs are skyrocketing and its starting to really look like a bunch of vultures are pulling the strings...particularly in florida.

The counter argument is always " Some people are never happy"
And that is true in alot of ways. I am guilty of that at times just as anyone is...but it isn't in this case.

To boil it down simply (oversimplification...as i'm ignoring the labor issue that is huge in central florida)...they are not re-investing the resources they need to not have the park experiences become a little stale.

The Studios and Animal Kingdom alone need alot of work...really need it if Disney wants to increase their revenues and capacity as they always desire...it needs to happen whether they see the profit in it or not.

Perhaps if the care and attention put into EPCOT and the MKs spread out across the world was the standard for Disney parks...but they've replaced it with half finished parks that have identity problems. That can't be disputed.

Even if you "love" animal kingdom, an objective viewer can't look at it as not being in need of filling out or concept completion. Maybe if it was 2/3 the price...but surely ye jest! And to have it kinda sit there and be a second choice gate (as they have been content with MGM by and large) for 10,15,20 years plus isn't good enough for Disney.

I almost feel as if i'm getting a "What do you want us to do...we're so big and we can't make everything good?" vibe from the collective brain of Team Disney in Orlando.
My answer would be "Fulfill your obligations or cap your pricing"

Or perhaps its more "Once we siphon off the overhead on third parties and throw up more villas...then we'll get back to being park innovators"
My answer to that would be "After the rise and fall of Michael Eisner, I don't believe you at all"

So hey...we all aren't really that different. obviously we are all various degrees of disney nuts...some cashews, some almonds
But they don't earn the cheerleading right now. And its not that the Yeti doesn't work...its that it didn't work and they've stood pat on it for 6 years in a park that is still in no way on solid ground. We should be in phase II, III, IV of an animal kingdom masterplan by now...yet there are crickets in the strategic planning office next to Tamu Tamu Refreshments. And that is not how the disney park operation's foundation was laid.

And that has nothing to do with money...its about money now...its always been about money. It's not that money isn't being spent...its just that it is being spent because of a bad set of priorities for the consumer. They are really abusing their reputation in my opinion. Again, that's my opinion.

We really don't need more landry's, or DVC units, or Cruiseships. Some may love that...but new attractions benefit every single person who buys a ticket..even if they don't ride it and it simply draws crowds away from what they want to do. That is the silent majority. I'm fine with scaling back capital improvements if you are not asking me to increase my outlay as other "revenue priorities" are being built. But since you are and that puts us in a consumer relationship...and therefore feedback is warranted.

If i pay dues and annual pass fees...i shouldn't really expect to give blind positive feedback.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

As a addition to what Timez has said:

When i comment on Dining or Lodging (where my experience mostly lies) i give the goods and bads and lots of suggestions.

On the Rumors and News board...i'm highly critical because i don't like the uniform overall direction that is being taken. And capital expenditure at WDW is not a serious of random events...it is cold and calculated.

And i don't like it. I feel like we're being thrown the minimum amount of scraps possible to not seriously affect revenue while the real push - flamingo crossing and golden oak and hyperion wharf and GF Villas- is where all the creative and financial juice is being diverted to. It's like somekind of faux flanking maneuver...and i'm not going to overcommit to it.

 

[dismichael]

I think it would be pretty cool adding a Star Wars subsection to HS. I think the Pixar subsection was well done, but could even be expanded. My two favorite rides in Disneyworld are Buzz and TSM, so I'm up for seeing the new plans

 

[OswaldRabbit]

I would love to see a Sci Fi Land within DHS. I think it would be more in keeping with the movie theme of the park and they could put in non-Star Wars stuff -- along with Star Tours, of course. Maybe a Tron ride (anyone remeber the Tron section of the Peoplemover at DL?). Or some old-school Jules Verne sci-fi attractions like the Nine-Eye movie or Captain Nemo sub at DL Paris.

 

[skier_pete]

NYTimes and LockedOutLogic...again i wasn't directing it at you guys specifically or anything you said. You guys aren't the worst ones here by far. In fact, I appreciate the responses. And I know you don't mind listening to dissenting arguments so that is appreciated.

I've made the argument elsewhere, and still beleive it, that when it comes to new park attractions, we need a little patience while the DCA work is getting wrapped up and also the two new cruise ships. With these coming on-line, money should return to the Florida parks, IMO.

However, I still don't think you'll see a major expansion in ANY of the parks. Again, LockedOutLogic, if the FLE is not enough for you, NOTHING they do will ever be.

For one thing, I do agree I would like to see some more ride/attractions at DAK...though in my view more mid-level attractions. It's a park of all (and very few) headliners. However, our family LOVES DAK the way it is now. We easily spend 2 FULL days there each trip, and for the most part don't ride the rides. (I'm the only one that rides Everest, none of us like Dinosaur, I can't stand Kali.) So, for us I would be fine with DAK staying as is.

Where I would prefer changes is @ DHS. It's a park that never really worked for me, and I am a huge movie buff. It's got some great stuff (ToT and RnRC are pretty good, like TSM) but again not enough in the ride department. The whole park feels disjointed, I know there are themed areas, but there's no real division or separation to them, and parts of the theming just look stupid (the "backlot" area, where the theming is "we didn't finish building it". The "headliner" GMR is to me a glorified wax museum. I like that it has some classic movies in it, but soooo slow moving. Ugh.

A "Star Wars" land with another ride beyond Star Tours and a dining location (Star Wars Cantina anyone?). This park also suffers from a lack of having "minor" rides. Part of why MK works so well is the mix of major and minor rides. Tomorrowland you have Space Mountain & Buzz Lightyear, but you also have the TTA, Carosel of Progress and the Monster's Inc show. This park could use 3 or 4 of these as well.

I don't even know what my point here is anymore...i've drifted off on some tangents...gotta go...

 

[nytimez]

NYTimes and LockedOutLogic...again i wasn't directing it at you guys specifically or anything you said. You guys aren't the worst ones here by far. In fact, I appreciate the responses. And I know you don't mind listening to dissenting arguments so that is appreciated.

I've made the argument elsewhere, and still beleive it, that when it comes to new park attractions, we need a little patience while the DCA work is getting wrapped up and also the two new cruise ships. With these coming on-line, money should return to the Florida parks, IMO.

However, I still don't think you'll see a major expansion in ANY of the parks. Again, LockedOutLogic, if the FLE is not enough for you, NOTHING they do will ever be.

For one thing, I do agree I would like to see some more ride/attractions at DAK...though in my view more mid-level attractions. It's a park of all (and very few) headliners. However, our family LOVES DAK the way it is now. We easily spend 2 FULL days there each trip, and for the most part don't ride the rides. (I'm the only one that rides Everest, none of us like Dinosaur, I can't stand Kali.) So, for us I would be fine with DAK staying as is.

Where I would prefer changes is @ DHS. It's a park that never really worked for me, and I am a huge movie buff. It's got some great stuff (ToT and RnRC are pretty good, like TSM) but again not enough in the ride department. The whole park feels disjointed, I know there are themed areas, but there's no real division or separation to them, and parts of the theming just look stupid (the "backlot" area, where the theming is "we didn't finish building it". The "headliner" GMR is to me a glorified wax museum. I like that it has some classic movies in it, but soooo slow moving. Ugh.

A "Star Wars" land with another ride beyond Star Tours and a dining location (Star Wars Cantina anyone?). This park also suffers from a lack of having "minor" rides. Part of why MK works so well is the mix of major and minor rides. Tomorrowland you have Space Mountain & Buzz Lightyear, but you also have the TTA, Carosel of Progress and the Monster's Inc show. This park could use 3 or 4 of these as well.

I don't even know what my point here is anymore...i've drifted off on some tangents...gotta go...

Getting further off the tangent (you started it!), I'm one of those people who can actually spend a full day or more in AK. I think it's a great park. But I also "get" why it's not a full day park for most people... because it isn't.

I think it needs another "land." Ideally, a mythical creatures area as initially envisioned -- and a clone of DisneySea's Mysterious Island with Journey to the Center of the Earth and 20,000 Leagues would fit the bill nicely (and someone else already paid for all the design work).

I suspect that will never happen. But if I did, I'd be the first to jump up and cheer (although part of me would also lament that DisneySea would be a little less special and unique).

As for Everest, it was a nice idea. But the Yeti issue is a real embarrassment, and that's not the only problem with it. The waterfall rarely works. The bird almost never works.

Is it a fun ride without those things? Maybe. But it's not a "Disney Difference" ride without those things.

For the record, though, I think Dinoland USA is a bigger stain on AK than the broken yeti.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Getting further off the tangent (you started it!), I'm one of those people who can actually spend a full day or more in AK. I think it's a great park. But I also "get" why it's not a full day park for most people... because it isn't.

I think it needs another "land." Ideally, a mythical creatures area as initially envisioned -- and a clone of DisneySea's Mysterious Island with Journey to the Center of the Earth and 20,000 Leagues would fit the bill nicely (and someone else already paid for all the design work).

I suspect that will never happen. But if I did, I'd be the first to jump up and cheer (although part of me would also lament that DisneySea would be a little less special and unique).

As for Everest, it was a nice idea. But the Yeti issue is a real embarrassment, and that's not the only problem with it. The waterfall rarely works. The bird almost never works.

Is it a fun ride without those things? Maybe. But it's not a "Disney Difference" ride without those things.

For the record, though, I think Dinoland USA is a bigger stain on AK than the broken yeti.

Completely agree about animal kingdom and especially dinoland.

the fact is that the park opened with two "placeholders" as opposed to true disney style lands...the lion king show...which still sit churning out repetitive show after show for now 15 years...and CTX as a virtual standalone in "dinoland"

i don't know what happend with dinoland...i think they made a rookie mistake and allowed the jurassic park presence during the intial construction (which was deadsmack inline with DAK's early construction schedule) to think they need the dino thing. but it just fizzled...and then they slapped that stupid off the shelf neon tacky stuff ontop of it as filler.
Dinoland USA is the probably the worst attempt at a disney "land" in history...and it still sits.

that goes ditto with the camp minnie mickey...an obvious dead end placeholder even to the untrained eye that still sits now close to 15 years after the park opened.

Really is a shame because it could be a fantastic park...but that's not the style now...its just get it open slap the mouse on the ticket booth and try to suck some money out of it ASAP.

But i am kinda with Pete in that perhaps we'll see a rescue plan for WDW in some sore spots after they get the DCA mess taken care of...
...but they have lost my faith on this...in all honestly
...i still wanna believe it though.

 

[skier_pete]

For the record, though, I think Dinoland USA is a bigger stain on AK than the broken yeti.

Dinoland USA is the probably the worst attempt at a disney "land" in history...and it still sits.

that goes ditto with the camp minnie mickey...an obvious dead end placeholder even to the untrained eye that still sits now close to 15 years after the park opened.

Oh boy, can you believe we agree on something? Cheap carnival games and rides passed off as "themeing" make for the most embarrassing themed area in Disney World. I know many like Dinosaur, but I think the ride is a hot mess...how it scares anyone over 8 is beyond me, the whole things so damn dark you can't really tell what's going on and then they throw a Dinosaur at you every once in a while, some of which don't even move. We go for the Boneyard and pass on by the rest.

Camp MinnieMickey is pretty bad, especially with the closing of Pocahantas. I do think the Festival of the Lion King show ended up being a fantastic show, especially when you know the history of how it was stuck in there, but they really could use something more than meet-and-greets over there.

Boy, we really ARE off topic.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Oh boy, can you believe we agree on something? Cheap carnival games and rides passed off as "themeing" make for the most embarrassing themed area in Disney World. I know many like Dinosaur, but I think the ride is a hot mess...how it scares anyone over 8 is beyond me, the whole things so damn dark you can't really tell what's going on and then they throw a Dinosaur at you every once in a while, some of which don't even move. We go for the Boneyard and pass on by the rest.

Camp MinnieMickey is pretty bad, especially with the closing of Pocahantas. I do think the Festival of the Lion King show ended up being a fantastic show, especially when you know the history of how it was stuck in there, but they really could use something more than meet-and-greets over there.

Boy, we really ARE off topic.

we often agree...especially at the foundation level.

most of us want something better from WDW and TWDC so that we never envision ourselves not needing their product or looking for a replacement or simply tiring of it and putting it behind us.

That's what fans are fundamentally...in every situation.

 

[Ashleybs]

I'll keep crossing my fingers that something like this were to happen; it would be awesome!

 

[umichigan10]

Oh boy, can you believe we agree on something? Cheap carnival games and rides passed off as "themeing" make for the most embarrassing themed area in Disney World. I know many like Dinosaur, but I think the ride is a hot mess...how it scares anyone over 8 is beyond me, the whole things so damn dark you can't really tell what's going on and then they throw a Dinosaur at you every once in a while, some of which don't even move. We go for the Boneyard and pass on by the rest.

Camp MinnieMickey is pretty bad, especially with the closing of Pocahantas. I do think the Festival of the Lion King show ended up being a fantastic show, especially when you know the history of how it was stuck in there, but they really could use something more than meet-and-greets over there.

Boy, we really ARE off topic.

To throw my .02 in, how about they move the Festival of the Lion King to somewhere in the Africa area and then re-theme it into a different land. As for Dinoland....if you need to pass through for any reason, just look straight ahead and keep on walking.

 

[Disneyfan100000]

Wow! If it was true, that would really be awesome!

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

To throw my .02 in, how about they move the Festival of the Lion King to somewhere in the Africa area and then re-theme it into a different land.

The Festival of the Lion is a fine show based on The Lion King, an excellent "talking animal" movie. In a long animation tradition, the characters are drawn as animals, but the movie is really a human story about how the main character eventually gains maturity after a tragedy.

The Lion King has nothing to do with Harambe, Disney's version of a rural African village that serves as the gateway to safaris past real animals. The Lion King would he a very awkward intrusion. In fact, the Lion King would be completely our-of-place in the Animal Kingdom's Africa.

The Imagineers purposely put distance between Harambe and Rafiki's Planet Watch, but even that's awkward.

There is plenty of land for expansion at Animal Kingdom, without shoving two things together that don't go together.

On top of that, "moving" the Festival of the Lion Theater would mean tearing down a valuable asset and probably spending around $20 million to rebuild the exact same thing. That's not much different than putting $20 million into paper shredder. There would be no additional guest capacity, nor would it be something that could be marketed as something new.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The Festival of the Lion is a fine show based on The Lion King, an excellent "talking animal" movie. In a long animation tradition, the characters are drawn as animals, but the movie is really a human story about how the main character eventually gains maturity after a tragedy.

The Lion King has nothing to do with Harambe, Disney's version of a rural African village that serves as the gateway to safaris past real animals. The Lion King would he a very awkward intrusion. In fact, the Lion King would be completely our-of-place in the Animal Kingdom's Africa.

The Imagineers purposely put distance between Harambe and Rafiki's Planet Watch, but even that's awkward.

There is plenty of land for expansion at Animal Kingdom, without shoving two things together that don't go together.

On top of that, "moving" the Festival of the Lion Theater would mean tearing down a valuable asset and probably spending around $20 million to rebuild the exact same thing. That's not much different than putting $20 million into paper shredder. There would be no additional guest capacity, nor would it be something that could be marketed as something new.

yeah...with all due respect to the imagineers...

the park's layout is completely boned. the artistic "separation" of different african elements just looks like bunk. And further to the point that it really doesn't matter - they stuck a fish show (which doesn't even have a place at animal kingdom) in between an asian rollercoaster and the dinocarnival. So the argument that the lion king show doesn't mesh with "rural" africa across a bridge is completely an invalid argument at this point. Conservation station, Rafiki's planet watch, etc. can't be used as a good example either...as its setup makes it completely ineffective.

Its not that i disagree with you in principle. But your argument is more of a theoritical take on why and how they put things in the park. Well, the theory is long over...there are issues on the ground and if that means that some of the artistic license has to be put aside to make that park a little more worthwhile...i think it's ok in this case

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

So the argument that the lion king show doesn't mesh with "rural" africa across a bridge is completely an invalid argument at this point.

First, I agree that there are significant flaws with Disney's Animal Kingdom.

However, Harambe, the gateway to Kilimanjaro Safaris, is skillfully executed. I've never been to Africa, but Harambe feels right. The attention to detail is superb. If only the rest of Disney's Animal Kingdom were this good!

I stand by my position that tearing down and rebuilding the Festival of the Lion King makes no sense from a business, creative, operational, or marketing perspective. It would be millions of dollars down the drain. Unless it were properly distanced from Harambe, it would detract from arguably the section of Animal Kingdom that most fully shows the park's potential.

There's so much that could be done to improve Animal Kingdom. The money needs to be spent to build, not to rebuild.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

First, I agree that there are significant flaws with Disney's Animal Kingdom.

However, Harambe, the gateway to Kilimanjaro Safaris, is skillfully executed. I've never been to Africa, but Harambe feels right. The attention to detail is superb. If only the rest of Disney's Animal Kingdom were this good!

I stand by my position that tearing down and rebuilding the Festival of the Lion King makes no sense from a business, creative, operational, or marketing perspective. It would be millions of dollars down the drain. Unless it were properly distanced from Harambe, it would detract from arguably the section of Animal Kingdom that most fully shows the park's potential.

There's so much that could be done to improve Animal Kingdom. The money needs to be spent to build, not to rebuild.

I must be getting old and soft...because i do agree with you in principle.

the Harambe section is the most well conceived and executed portion of the park...Asian other than the yeti and that stupid rapids ride also are fairly well done.

I'm not really saying that they need to slap the lion king show in the "africa" area...i think it would screw it up too.

I think they need a real disney land where the show now sits...and that means if they have to maintain that show - put somewhere else in the park. Heck, they can put it on top of conservation station for all i care...

Preferably...the lion king show should be allowed to end to make way for a new land. But if it were to remain...it either needs to be redesigned or worked around somehow.

How about this: they build a real children's/ family area around the show if they want to keep it....and then take out dinoland and that gaudy junk to put the almost legendary "beastly kingdom", austrailia, the lost city of atlantis, or whatever else their hearts desire.

They could even use the EMV (as i recall it being referred to) at CTX and retrofit it to an entirely different theme and ride. We know it's exactly the same layout as Indy at Disneyland...so obviously something else can be done with it.

They ruined it with that "dinosaur" junk anyway.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I must be getting old and soft...because i do agree with you in principle.

Overall, I think we're in "violent agreement" with each other.

I think we agree that Animal Kingdom is full of missed opportunities. Additions to the park have failed to follow through on the initial promise of the park.

My guess is the Joe Rohde has the vision to make Animal Kingdom a much better park than it is today, but that the executives who control the budgets are not willing to spend the money.

Let's hope that changes (the money part, not the vision part).

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Overall, I think we're in "violent agreement" with each other.

I think we agree that Animal Kingdom is full of missed opportunities. Additions to the park have failed to follow through on the initial promise of the park.

My guess is the Joe Rohde has the vision to make Animal Kingdom a much better park than it is today, but that the executives who control the budgets are not willing to spend the money.

Let's hope that changes (the money part, not the vision part).

I differ on your Joe Rhode assessment.

I think he's part of the problem too. I hate that beaners seem to dictate creativity...but from the comments he's made it seems like he still fights like a kid in the sandbox over paint colors and other such details.
You have to know what battles to fight to have any chance to win the war...and that big fake tree and fake mountain look great and all...but i'd readily sacrifice either if it meant there was more to actually do in the park had they not been horribly overbudget on pretty much everything built.

i'm just saying...

 

[mike the canuck]

New pics of Star Tours queue

http://micechat.com/forums/disneyla...-tours-adventures-continue-views-reviews.html