Spring Direct Incentives 2/9-4/27

[AstroBlasters]

1. Riv sales have been well documented to out sell VGF and most assume it would have sold out by now even with the restrictions if not for the pandemic.
2 & 3. Disney makes a killing renting at these two resorts even if people have AP or other discounts applied. So I think they are fine with the state of both of these properties.

Wait, what? RIV is better than VGF?

Restrictions don’t matter and it was all the pandemic?

I think this is gaslighting propagated by RIV owners with Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[intamin]

Except Riviera still hasn't sold out in nearly 10 years. Aulani is 15 years and nowhere close to selling out. And then there's the Cabins... Supply is not meeting demand in these cases.

A DVC loan is a mortgage, and the DVC rates are well above mortgage rates. I would even argue that DVC loans should be cheaper than typical mortgages because they're so much easier to repossess/resell if the borrower defaults.

10 years? It's barely been selling for 6 lol. Or are we just rounding up from 5 now

 

[eticketplease]

10 years? It's barely been selling for 6 lol. Or are we just rounding up from 5 now

It might not even be from five. It might be some of those crazy rounding at the stores are doing for pennies lol

 

[Patmcpsu]

It might not even be from five. It might be some of those crazy rounding at the stores are doing for pennies lol

I just did the googling and we're 2 months away from it being 7 years.
Disney Tourist Blog: Riviera Resort Pricing, Points Chart & Sales

Sales will officially begin March 27, 2019. Following that, bookings will begin April 10, 2019 for current members and April 15 for new members. The resort will open December 16, 2019, which is consistent with the cash bookings date.

I'm sorry for casually saying "Almost 10" when the precise answer was 7. I didn't know it would cause such a stir.

My point is that the resort cost hundreds of millions of dollars (6.7 million points * $50/pt assumed building cost = $335 million, as a back of the envelope estimate) and Disney has to pay interest on the money carried between construction and sale (plus expenditures, minus other revenue, sales taking places over time, I know it gets complicated). Because of that, charging a higher-than-market interest rate (which inherently slows sales) is not "pure profit" as others have said.

At a minimum, they should charge mortgage rates, not the rate usually seen on unsecured personal loans (there is collateral, after all). And I would even go as far as saying promotional interest rates may stimulate more sales than 5% price discounts do.

 

[eticketplease]

My point is that the resort cost hundreds of millions of dollars (6.7 million points * $50/pt assumed building cost = $335 million, as a back of the envelope estimate) and Disney has to pay interest on the money carried between construction and sale (plus expenditures, minus other revenue, sales taking places over time, I know it gets complicated). Because of that, charging a higher-than-market interest rate (which inherently slows sales) is not "pure profit" as others have said.

At a minimum, they should charge mortgage rates, not the rate usually seen on unsecured personal loans (there is collateral, after all). And I would even go as far as saying promotional interest rates may stimulate more sales than 5% price discounts do.

Why does Disney "HAVE" to pay interest? Based on this $335 million estimates I would say Disney has enough cash ($5.7 billion as of 9/30/25) to cover it in full.
There might be tax advantages to not doing so I don't know but they certainly don't have to pay interest.

While they are still selling the property they are making money while renting out the rooms that haven't been declared yet. They are not in a cash flow situation where they need to rush to sell these properties. Would it be nice? Sure but certainly not necessary.

Mortgage rates..... This is not a principal residence it is a luxury purchase. The rates are what disney thinks is best for their bottom line and for what they believe people that require financing can afford.

 

[Brian Noble]

Restrictions don’t matter and it was all the pandemic?

Of course restrictions play a role.

At the margins.

The question is, how big is the margin? I am firmly in the camp of "smaller than most DISers think." My evidence for this is that the entity with the most to lose if restrictions add more-than-marginal friction to the sales process is the one that has decided to keep them for each new association created since RIV.

There is even an argument that, on balance, restrictions are a net positive for new developer sales. I am fully aware that the plural of anecdote is not data, but I can tell you there is no way in hell I'd've bought from the developer if the resort I wanted was unrestricted, because none of the other Blue Card window dressing matters to me.

Now, restrictions absolutely will cost me a hefty chunk of change if I ever find myself in a position of having to sell the developer points. I figure unrestricted RIV would have been worth ~25% more than restricted on the resale market. (See the basis for that statment here.) So, my risk of selling had to be correspondingly lower for the purchase to make sense.

That said, I can also make a case that restrictions are awesome for the right kind of resale buyer. My developer points might be worth less if I had to sell them, but my resale points cost correspondingly less to buy at a resort I want to visit regularly. As a buyer, not a seller, this is a win. And no, not every buyer must become a seller, because expiration is a thing.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'm also not particularly worried about point lock-in and its effect on availability because (a) most people are not willing or able to book at 11 months-to-the-day and (b) I am not usually looking to book the room categories that go first.

That said, my developer purchase was a guaranteed week in one of those room categories. Just in case.

 

[mkatsy]

I'm also not particularly worried about point lock-in and its effect on availability because (a) most people are not willing or able to book at 11 months-to-the-day and (b) I am not usually looking to book the room categories that go

This is such an important point that I think blindsides new owners. They buy enough points for studios and then get road rage when caught up in the booking traffic jam. Marathon weekend booking window opened this week. People were in a scrum over the studios in the lowest category, and I still had my choice of VGF, POLY or BLT at 10am because I book one bedrooms. Yes, the savings margin over cash bookings is less, but the gift of time, to hold a vote in the family group chat is priceless to me.

 

[Girlstar30]

I don’t want to give legal advice and this should NOT be construed as such; but I am a licensed attorney in a state that does not have DVC properties in it. When my wife and I have bought direct we put them all into a trust I created just to hold title to our Vacation Club properties and we waived title insurance. I wrote title insurance for over 15 years but haven’t in a couple of years. (Never have written on time shares but have on 40 plus year term leases before on lake properties) I see the risk personally as very minimal when buying from Disney directly. I would NOT ever recommend waiving title insurance on a resale property you are purchasing period. There could be an Issue on a resale you want covered for. There definitely seems to be a variance in standard title insurance charges by which broker you purchase thru and can leave it at that. I have read before they they will give you a choice on resale of a different company if you really want it but we have not pushed that button. But on multiple direct contracts we have waived. This should NOT be construed as legal advice and take it and use it at your own risk.

Does anyone have a picture of this?

Working on it! I know youre a Disney art collector too, I posted on my other thread more about it, the one where I ask how I should split 200 points now

 

[Girlstar30]

Also curious. Can’t bring myself to read all the pages I missed so I look forward to learning about what this is in future posts.

I will tag you and tx

 

[Girlstar30]

In our contract paperwork, there was an entire page about the artwork. So I'd say they are pretty serious about who is getting it.



Yeah, I think all the artwork (or at least a lot of it) at BLT is an artist named Joey Chou. He has really great stuff - Disney and non-Disney.



I mean, did they specifically say it was hanging in a room? Hallway? Lobby? I wonder what it would be. It's promising to me that it's hanging at VDH because that means it wouldn't end up being Stitch, right?? My husband immediately joked "it will probably be Stitch" because it drives us both crazy how much Stitch appears in merchandise.

Oh I thought i shared this already, but I guess not she told me it was It's A Small World. (Im sorry if this turns out to be incorrect but this is what I was told because I did ask this soecific questions when deciding if i wanted to pay $100 extra for it)

Since I plan to go there this month to find this mystery lol and im still in communication with my guide I will ask her exactly where it is! @VGCgroupie @tx911

I havent received my new contract for signing yet so I havent seen the page all about the artwork yet. I can post it once I receive it if anyone would like me to

 

[Girlstar30]

I just did the googling and we're 2 months away from it being 7 years.
Disney Tourist Blog: Riviera Resort Pricing, Points Chart & Sales

I'm sorry for casually saying "Almost 10" when the precise answer was 7. I didn't know it would cause such a stir.

My point is that the resort cost hundreds of millions of dollars (6.7 million points * $50/pt assumed building cost = $335 million, as a back of the envelope estimate) and Disney has to pay interest on the money carried between construction and sale (plus expenditures, minus other revenue, sales taking places over time, I know it gets complicated). Because of that, charging a higher-than-market interest rate (which inherently slows sales) is not "pure profit" as others have said.

At a minimum, they should charge mortgage rates, not the rate usually seen on unsecured personal loans (there is collateral, after all). And I would even go as far as saying promotional interest rates may stimulate more sales than 5% price discounts do.

This is very interesting to me, I wonder why theyre not pushing Riv harder since theyre having to pay all that interest.

CFW was pushed on us first and i noticed a hard poly push with us since. Riv was only suggested to me when the guide got to know me better and thought it would be the best fit

 

[gvel]

I think people are underestimating the long term effect of the restrictions. RIV is still an actively sold resort and we are already seeing contracts reaching the low 100s. I truly believe that 5 years from now a RIV resale will sell for the same or less than a SSR or OKW2 (2057) resale.

Sure it might sound like a bargain... but as time passes more and more RIV resale will exist which will cause a very interesting 11 month booking window war.

 

[ClaraOswald]

I think people are underestimating the long term effect of the restrictions. RIV is still an actively sold resort and we are already seeing contracts reaching the low 100s. I truly believe that 5 years from now a RIV resale will sell for the same or less than a SSR or OKW2 (2057) resale.

I wonder what will happen after 2042 when so many of the non-restricted ones will be expire. And presumably all new ones will be restricted. I think it might "even" things out a bit more, perhaps.

 

[muppets3d]

All threads on here eventually turn into a debate about resale restrictions don't they

 

[Girlstar30]

I think people are underestimating the long term effect of the restrictions. RIV is still an actively sold resort and we are already seeing contracts reaching the low 100s. I truly believe that 5 years from now a RIV resale will sell for the same or less than a SSR or OKW2 (2057) resale.

Sure it might sound like a bargain... but as time passes more and more RIV resale will exist which will cause a very interesting 11 month booking window war.

I agree with this

 

[byurick]

All threads on here eventually turn into a debate about resale restrictions don't they

Was just about to post this. You beat me to it.

 

[Girlstar30]

I wonder what will happen after 2042 when so many of the non-restricted ones will be expire. And presumably all new ones will be restricted. I think it might "even" things out a bit more, perhaps.

I agree with this too. So pretty much, who knows!

 

[ClaraOswald]

I agree with this too. So pretty much, who knows!

Exactly. Probably no point in even "debating" it because we have no clue what the future holds.

The restrictions didn't play any role in me deciding to purchase VDH. Yes, we will sell the contract some day (we'll be in our 90s when it expires) but I don't really let the guessing game of "what will this be worth when I sell it" factor into my decision. I just assume that it will be worth $0 and if it's worth anything, that's a bonus.

 

[Girlstar30]

Exactly. Probably no point in even "debating" it because we have no clue what the future holds.

The restrictions didn't play any role in me deciding to purchase VDH. Yes, we will sell the contract some day (we'll be in our 90s when it expires) but I don't really let the guessing game of "what will this be worth when I sell it" factor into my decision. I just assume that it will be worth $0 and if it's worth anything, that's a bonus.

I felt a little safer with vdh because I think cali will net at least $150 for a future sale. I really think i would have gone with poly if I saw resale in the low 100s. It does matter to me but I know it doesnt matter to others so much. Not saying it cant go much lower, I just feel the chances of it not are stronger than at the other restricted resorts in fl