Sports: Deflate-Gate

[GrnMtnMan]

My gut tells me their will be a settlement next week during the meeting with the judge.

The question is, will the NFL agree to any sort of settlement where Tom does not admit responsibility? The NFL has no reason to reduce the suspension without one. And Tom testified in the appeal hearing that he did not give explicit instructions. I don't see how either side gets out clean from this situation, especially since TB's appeal testimony was under oath.

Here's my guess at what the settlement will be:

- TB will say "I take responsibility for what happened, but I did not instruct McNally to tamper with the balls being used in the AFC championship. During the 2014 season I told the equipment managers the way I would like the balls prepared, and a member of the Pats staff (McNally) took those instructions too far in the AFC championship."

- The NFL will reduce the suspension by 1-3 games. They'll set a precedent that messing with the way officials conduct a game will result in a suspension.​

 

[TAX GUY]

The question is, will the NFL agree to any sort of settlement where Tom does not admit responsibility? The NFL has no reason to reduce the suspension without one. And Tom testified in the appeal hearing that he did not give explicit instructions. I don't see how either side gets out clean from this situation, especially since TB's appeal testimony was under oath.

Here's my guess at what the settlement will be:

- TB will say "I take responsibility for what happened, but I did not instruct McNally to tamper with the balls being used in the AFC championship. During the 2014 season I told the equipment managers the way I would like the balls prepared, and a member of the Pats staff (McNally) took those instructions too far in the AFC championship."

- The NFL will reduce the suspension by 1-3 games. They'll set a precedent that messing with the way officials conduct a game will result in a suspension.​

Agree with the only difference being no games suspended and a monetary fine only.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

That's the whole problem!

The whole problem is a) McNally apparently tampered with the balls. At a minimum, he did not follow the usual procedure and brought them someplace inappropriate (video evidence) and b)referred to himself as the deflator and suggested he had a scandalous story to tell ESPN (actual text messages). What other scandal worthy info would a game-day only official's locker room attendant have regarding TB?

Yes, without the measurements the PSI could be in doubt. With this indisputable evidence, we have no other reasonable conclusion.

P.S. I'll be in WDW next week/at settlement hearing time, so I don't expect to be part of our lively dialogue when that news comes out...

 

[rajak73]

Interesting time line on the chain of events... (from a local sports blog site)


NEW YORK —Sources tell SportsCenter 5′s Mike Lynch that D’Qwell Jackson, of the Indianapolis Colts, intercepted a pass before the end of the first half of the AFC Championship game against the New England Patriots Sunday night and told his equipment manager that the ball felt under-inflated, leading to the so-called ‘deflategate’ controversy. According to sources, the equipment manager then informed the Colts’ head coach, Chuck Pagano, who then informed the team’s general manager, Ryan Grigson. Grigson then called the National Football League’s director of field operations, who then called the locker room and spoke with the officials on the field at halftime. During the first play coming back from halftime, there was a delay to the game while official changed the football being used on the field. Sources told Lynch that several footballs were taken out of play during the game Sunday night, but that’s not unusual and there have been times in previous games that officials have changed footballs during play due to factors such as air temperature changed that cause the ball to over or under inflate. The NFL said it is now investigating the Patriots because of the complaint that was made. “We are looking into it,” league spokesman Brian McCarthy wrote in an email to The Associated Press on Monday. “We do not have anything further to add at this point.”







Fantastic. So, if I’m reading this correctly, and I’m not intelligent so I may not be, then the improper balls were discovered in the 2nd quarter then the officials were notified at halftime and the ball was changed out at the first play of the third. Let’s see how that worked out…

This needs to be posted again. If they would have fixed the footballs right off the bat 1st quarter, the colts would have lost 56-7

 

[rajak73]

That's the thing, IF they were inspected before game time. Even then, who can say they were inflated to the 12.5-13.5 psi and then deflated? IF they were inspected pregame, and they were already under inflated, then what? Any different from the Rogers statement and claim?




I agree that many players will say they prefer a softer ball. Some will say a harder ball. They all their own preferences and non of which proves to have any advantage over another.

So my question has always been, if the balls were that deflated who handles the balls the most to notice? THE REFS!! They handle the balls every play! Why didn't they notice that the Colts balls were harder than the Pats ball?

 

[GAN]

I keep missing the written test results the officials had of he game balls before game time. Can you link those for me again?

Uh ...no, of course they can't. Hmmm -wonder why?

 

[pat fan]

- TB will say "I take responsibility for what happened, but I did not instruct McNally to tamper with the balls being used in the AFC championship. During the 2014 season I told the equipment managers the way I would like the balls prepared, and a member of the Pats staff (McNally) took those instructions too far in the AFC championship."

WHY would he do that? Why would he say he takes responsibility if he also says he had nothing to do with it? Put aside whether you or I think he did or didn't. If HE says he didn't, why would then accept responsibility???

 

[pat fan]

The whole problem is a) McNally apparently tampered with the balls. At a minimum, he did not follow the usual procedure and brought them someplace inappropriate (video evidence) and b)referred to himself as the deflator and suggested he had a scandalous story to tell ESPN (actual text messages). What other scandal worthy info would a game-day only official's locker room attendant have regarding TB?

So, because HE did something unusual (going in the bathroom) with 0 other "proof" TB gets suspended, the team fined and docked picks?

Yes, without the measurements the PSI could be in doubt. With this indisputable evidence, we have no other reasonable conclusion.

So, there's really no case since there's no PSI.

P.S. I'll be in WDW next week/at settlement hearing time, so I don't expect to be part of our lively dialogue when that news comes out...

Well crap.

 

[GAN]

The whole problem is a) McNally apparently tampered with the balls. At a minimum, he did not follow the usual procedure and brought them someplace inappropriate (video evidence) and b)referred to himself as the deflator and suggested he had a scandalous story to tell ESPN (actual text messages). What other scandal worthy info would a game-day only official's locker room attendant have regarding TB?

Yes, without the measurements the PSI could be in doubt. With this indisputable evidence, we have no other reasonable conclusion.

P.S. I'll be in WDW next week/at settlement hearing time, so I don't expect to be part of our lively dialogue when that news comes out...

I honestly don't see Brady, at this point, settling for anything less than 0 games suspended ...IF he is going to admit to anything. Just my suspicion. I say it's 4 or nothing.

And sure, after all this arguing/debate -now you tell us you're disappearing for a few days to go to DISNEY WORLD!?!

.....have a good trip!

 

[KBoopaloo]

The whole problem is a) McNally apparently tampered with the balls. At a minimum, he did not follow the usual procedure and brought them someplace inappropriate (video evidence) and b)referred to himself as the deflator and suggested he had a scandalous story to tell ESPN (actual text messages). What other scandal worthy info would a game-day only official's locker room attendant have regarding TB?

Yes, without the measurements the PSI could be in doubt. With this indisputable evidence, we have no other reasonable conclusion.

P.S. I'll be in WDW next week/at settlement hearing time, so I don't expect to be part of our lively dialogue when that news comes out...

And if I remember correctly he walked past at least two, possibly three League officials with the balls before heading into the bathroom but no one seemed to think this was an issue at the time. If the League was so concerned about proper ball supervision, why didn't anyone stop him as he walked unsupervised? Additionally if there was some sort of team wide scheme to always get the balls deflated before the game, why didn't the NFL check the security camera footage from the playoff game the week prior to see if McNally was up to his dirty tricks that week as well?

I believe the Wells report tried to imply that McNally had to go to the bathroom to deflate the footballs in 100 seconds or less because the Officials Locker Room where the balls are usually stored before the game is crowded with League officials during the playoffs in a way that it is not during the regular season. In other words, maybe he usually deflates them in that room but had to resort to the bathroom during the AFC Championship game because of all the extra prying eyes. But the week before was also a playoff game which would have created the exact same situation. Did he make an unauthorized bathroom trip that week? No one knows because the NFL either didn't bother to check or they did check and he didn't and they don't want to mention that.

http://nesn.com/2015/05/patriots-jim-mcnally-didnt-stealthy-take-footballs-from-locker-room/

It also makes me laugh that in the transcript of the testimony from the appeal hearing, one of the League witnesses says that the Ideal Gas Law would only account for the lower PSI in the Patriot's balls at halftime if all the balls were tested in the first two minutes or so after they were brought into the locker room. The witness thought it was unlikely that all 11 footballs could have been gauged in about 2 minutes time. But apparently it was likely that McNally could systematically deflate 11 footballs in a bathroom, stuff them all back into the bag and be out of the room in 100 seconds or less.

And I won't even get into the discussion about how the ref (Walt Anderson) said he recalled using one gauge (the one with a logo on it) but Ted Wells decided he must have actually used the other gauge (without a logo)...because the non logo gauge was the only one that gave them the larger number of unacceptable PSI numbers (8 balls under the expected range versus 3 balls under). So he completely tossed aside the testimony of the only person who would actually know anything about the PSI measurements taken before the game because that doesn't match the narrative.

 

[GAN]

And I won't even get into the discussion about how the ref (Walt Anderson) said he recalled using one gauge (the one with a logo on it) but Ted Wells decided he must have actually used the other gauge (without a logo)...because the non logo gauge was the only one that gave them the larger number of unacceptable PSI numbers (8 balls under the expected range versus 3 balls under). So he completely tossed aside the testimony of the only person who would actually know anything about the PSI measurements taken before the game because that doesn't match the narrative.

It was thrown out because it is not only obvious, but well-known, that the balls were never tested. It is the one fact that makes these allegations flawed -their case holds no water if that is included.

 

[TAX GUY]

And if I remember correctly he walked past at least two, possibly three League officials with the balls before heading into the bathroom but no one seemed to think this was an issue at the time. If the League was so concerned about proper ball supervision, why didn't anyone stop him as he walked unsupervised? Additionally if there was some sort of team wide scheme to always get the balls deflated before the game, why didn't the NFL check the security camera footage from the playoff game the week prior to see if McNally was up to his dirty tricks that week as well?

I believe the Wells report tried to imply that McNally had to go to the bathroom to deflate the footballs in 100 seconds or less because the Officials Locker Room where the balls are usually stored before the game is crowded with League officials during the playoffs in a way that it is not during the regular season. In other words, maybe he usually deflates them in that room but had to resort to the bathroom during the AFC Championship game because of all the extra prying eyes. But the week before was also a playoff game which would have created the exact same situation. Did he make an unauthorized bathroom trip that week? No one knows because the NFL either didn't bother to check or they did check and he didn't and they don't want to mention that.

http://nesn.com/2015/05/patriots-jim-mcnally-didnt-stealthy-take-footballs-from-locker-room/

It also makes me laugh that in the transcript of the testimony from the appeal hearing, one of the League witnesses says that the Ideal Gas Law would only account for the lower PSI in the Patriot's balls at halftime if all the balls were tested in the first two minutes or so after they were brought into the locker room. The witness thought it was unlikely that all 11 footballs could have been gauged in about 2 minutes time. But apparently it was likely that McNally could systematically deflate 11 footballs in a bathroom, stuff them all back into the bag and be out of the room in 100 seconds or less.

And I won't even get into the discussion about how the ref (Walt Anderson) said he recalled using one gauge (the one with a logo on it) but Ted Wells decided he must have actually used the other gauge (without a logo)...because the non logo gauge was the only one that gave them the larger number of unacceptable PSI numbers (8 balls under the expected range versus 3 balls under). So he completely tossed aside the testimony of the only person who would actually know anything about the PSI measurements taken before the game because that doesn't match the narrative.

 

[rajak73]

So I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why the Refs didn't notice the difference between the Colts footballs and the Pats Footballs?

 

[GAN]

So I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why the Refs didn't notice the difference between the Colts footballs and the Pats Footballs?

In fairness to the Ref's it's pretty hard to tell the difference unless you've got them together. Also, it would be even more difficult to say, not only are they lighter than the Colts but they are below league minimums.

 

[sunshinehighway]

In fairness to the Ref's it's pretty hard to tell the difference unless you've got them together. Also, it would be even more difficult to say, not only are they lighter than the Colts but they are below league minimums.

It's OK to use that argument against Brady though, right? Wasn't that one of the things people were saying, Brady had to know the balls were light when he handled them?

 

[GAN]

It's OK to use that argument against Brady though, right? Wasn't that one of the things people were saying, Brady had to know the balls were light when he handled them?

Well ...Brady touches his balls(sorry!) how many times a day? I have to believe he knows instantly if one is different from another to the n-th degree.

 

[rajak73]

In fairness to the Ref's it's pretty hard to tell the difference unless you've got them together. Also, it would be even more difficult to say, not only are they lighter than the Colts but they are below league minimums.

Really? 2 lbs of air weighs that much? It might make a difference in volume and size but it sure isn't making a difference in weight. But a defensive back can tell the difference by handling the ball once and a ref can't tell by handling them every down.

 

[GAN]

Really? 2 lbs of air weighs that much? It might make a difference in volume and size but it sure isn't making a difference in weight. But a defensive back can tell the difference by handling the ball once and a ref can't tell by handling them every down.

They are lighter in the sense they have "less PSI" ...2 PSI less wouldn't equate to 2lbs lighter. The colts were tipped off ...the DB probably wouldn't know if the difference was beyond league minimums either.

 

[rajak73]

They are lighter in the sense they have "less PSI" ...2 PSI less wouldn't equate to 2lbs lighter. The colts were tipped off ...the DB probably wouldn't know if the difference was beyond league minimums either.

That's why I wondered why you said "lighter"

And that's the point, if someone wasn't tipped off about the footballs, nobody, including the Refs that handle the footballs every play, would know the difference between 10.5 psi and 12.5 psi. So according the what I've read, they checked them at halftime, reinflated to proper psi, and the Pats promptly scored 21 points the third quarter. More than they scored in the first half with the deflated footballs that gave them a advantage. So I just looked this up on Wikipedia, (don't know how accurate it is) but:
Jackson says he actually did not even know the ball was taken or that the controversy existed until he was being driven home from the team's charter plane after the Colts had arrived in Indianapolis."I wouldn't know how that could even be an advantage or a disadvantage," Jackson said. "I definitely wouldn't be able to tell if one ball had less pressure than another."[10] After Jackson's interception, a Colts equipment manager measured the pressure of the ball on the sideline and the team notified NFL Gameday Operations that the ball measured below the permissible range.
Earlier in the article it says he handed the ball to a equip manager for safe keeping as a souvenir. I've seen this before, never seen a equipment manager check the air pressure on a souvenir football that someone has intercepted or caught for a touchdown, normally the football would have a name, date, game wrote on it and put in a chest for safe keeping until after the game. I think there's a lot trying to made out of something minor. JMHO

 

[kimmar067]

....Why didn't they notice that the Colts balls were harder than the Pats ball?

.....sorry, just struck me as REALLY FUNNY!