Spitting Mad at DVC

[gdrj]

I guess we've been lucky. Own at BWV. Have done Xmas and Easter and Summer at blt, akl, BWV, bcv's with less than 7 months lead time.

To our advantage we have not been set on resort and are willing to do split stays as well as wait list.

 

[McCrae]

Yes, I feel it is unreasonable to complain about lack of availability at a resort one doesn't own at at 7 months out or less. It is simply a risk of membership and the way DVC is set up. Remember that any reservation at a resort you don't own at is really simply an internal exchange into another resort. Anything else represents a lack of understanding of the system or an unreasonable expectation.

I agree with this.

You buy points at the resort you want to stay at..... I don't think its reasonable to complain about the availability of alternative resorts. If you really want to stay at another property on a regular basis buy points at that resort.

I have never had any problems switch resorts at the 7 month window. Even if I did it wouldn't be a problem.... I knew what I signed up for and I love my home resort.

 

[crisi]

I wouldn't say its a problem, but I think its an understandable disappointment when you want to take a trip to a non WDW resort and can't get a room at seven months. Its the way the system works, and if you understand the system, you can work it yourself (renting points from an owner, booking non-busy times at HHI when rooms are plentiful, trying to walk a reservation). I think its reasonable to communicate that disappointment here. It isn't reasonable to take it out on member services.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I offered to try and get Aulani for my nephew and his new wife for a honeymoon. I explained it wasn't my home resort but that there was a good chance of it and especially if they could be a little flexible in their dates. I was able to book and they are very happy to be going during the dates they chose.

Overall I've been very pleased with 7 month bookings but always know that it isn't ever guaranteed and I may need to adjust. I'm happy to have the options and opportunities.

 

[Dean]

I wouldn't say its a problem, but I think its an understandable disappointment when you want to take a trip to a non WDW resort and can't get a room at seven months. Its the way the system works, and if you understand the system, you can work it yourself (renting points from an owner, booking non-busy times at HHI when rooms are plentiful, trying to walk a reservation). I think its reasonable to communicate that disappointment here. It isn't reasonable to take it out on member services.

Disappointment is understandable. Upset over lack of availability or no points availability but cash availability is unreasonable and represents either a lack of understanding of the system OR entitlement mentality. The "I understand this is how it works but this was really important to me and therefore they should just give it to me" view is the latter.

 

[jcjen519]

Yes, I feel it is unreasonable to complain about lack of availability at a resort one doesn't own at at 7 months out or less. It is simply a risk of membership and the way DVC is set up. Remember that any reservation at a resort you don't own at is really simply an internal exchange into another resort. Anything else represents a lack of understanding of the system or an unreasonable expectation.

So you think it's unreasonable for an owner to dislike or see a downside to dvc membership? I fully understand how ownership works as well as why there may not be availability at a different resort I do not own at. It's also not the equivalent of an exchange in a timeshare....which is neither here not there. That doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't like the lack of maid service either...., I wouldn't say I am complaining. My point is that there are downsides to membership (obviously positives as well). I was fully aware when I bought in regardless of what I was told or not told. I also understand basic property rights as I was required to take the class in law school and have a basic understanding of it in order to pass the bar exam. I still bought and have not sold either the ones I bought or the ones I was gifted. Being informed either by disney or simply because one "should have known" does not turn a negative into a positive.

i don't believe that by acknowledging that 7 month availability is a downside of membership I am being unreasonable. It's simply a personal thought on the subject that I have come to after many years of ownership and discussions with my grandfather who owned since the first year of dvc. You may think individual factors I use in determining whether I would want to own anymore points are unreasonable. That is a subjective statement and you are entitled to your opinion. If you like the availability at seven months then great! If you simply offer ways around it, I might suggest you see it as a downside too.

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[tjkraz]

So you think it's unreasonable for an owner to dislike or see a downside to dvc membership?

IMO, it is reasonable / understandable to be disappointed in any of the downsides to owners.

However, it is not reasonable to expect Disney to take action to address those individual dislikes.

 

[jcjen519]

Disappointment is understandable. Upset over lack of availability or no points availability but cash availability is unreasonable and represents either a lack of understanding of the system OR entitlement mentality. The "I understand this is how it works but this was really important to me and therefore they should just give it to me" view is the latter.

I don't know if you are referring to me or not with this comment but I don't have the view you laid out. I fully understand how it works and have figured out how to work around it. I don't think that I should be excused from the rule nor do I have any expectations of such. I have never once been angry or upset about dvc reservations. Frustrated or disappointed? Maybe. I don't expect anything different. I believe 7 month availability is less than I would like.
Less than one may expect having no experience with it. I simply don't like how it plays out and don't want to further buy in. Simple.

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[jcjen519]

IMO, it is reasonable / understandable to be disappointed in any of the downsides to owners. However, it is not reasonable to expect Disney to take action to address those individual dislikes.

I don't expect that. I assume you mean the op? I think the op lacked full understanding of the agreement. Personally I can see why. Disney didn't do anything wrong but they don't have to spell every term out to include potential outcomes. Op could have done some digging online and uncovered a few things like this. My point is only that yes. 7 month availability is a downside...for a variety of reasons.

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[Dean]

So you think it's unreasonable for an owner to dislike or see a downside to dvc membership?

That's not what I said and not what I meant. Specific to where you and I got started is this.

It seems only fair to me that at 7 months out a dvc owner should in theory be able to book what they want.

This is certainly not the case with DVC nor should it be. Expecting otherwise across the system is either unreasonable or represents a lack of understanding of the system, one or the other. Understanding this is how it is but feeling it's not a system one is comfortable with is fair. Those people should likely either buy something they have more control over or simply use cash.

I fully understand how ownership works as well as why there may not be availability at a different resort I do not own at. It's also not the equivalent of an exchange in a timeshare....which is neither here not there. That doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't like the lack of maid service either...., I wouldn't say I am complaining. My point is that there are downsides to membership (obviously positives as well). I was fully aware when I bought in regardless of what I was told or not told. I also understand basic property rights as I was required to take the class in law school and have a basic understanding of it in order to pass the bar exam. I still bought and have not sold either the ones I bought or the ones I was gifted. Being informed either by disney or simply because one "should have known" does not turn a negative into a positive.

i don't believe that by acknowledging that 7 month availability is a downside of membership I am being unreasonable. It's simply a personal thought on the subject that I have come to after many years of ownership and discussions with my grandfather who owned since the first year of dvc. You may think individual factors I use in determining whether I would want to own anymore points are unreasonable. That is a subjective statement and you are entitled to your opinion. If you like the availability at seven months then great! If you simply offer ways around it, I might suggest you see it as a downside too.

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If the realities of DVC don't fit for you or a given person and they decide to play with some other sandbox, that's fair. The OP was someone being unreasonable OR not understanding the system (likely both) and that is the context of my responses.

I don't know if you are referring to me or not with this comment but I don't have the view you laid out. I fully understand how it works and have figured out how to work around it. I don't think that I should be excused from the rule nor do I have any expectations of such. I have never once been angry or upset about dvc reservations. Frustrated or disappointed? Maybe. I don't expect anything different. I believe 7 month availability is less than I would like.
Less than one may expect having no experience with it. I simply don't like how it plays out and don't want to further buy in. Simple.

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The principles involved in the OP. This was not directed at you unless you feel the same as the opinion expressed but the OP.

 

[jcjen519]

That's not what I said and not what I meant. Specific to where you and I got started is this. This is certainly not the case with DVC nor should it be. Expecting otherwise across the system is either unreasonable or represents a lack of understanding of the system, one or the other. Understanding this is how it is but feeling it's not a system one is comfortable with is fair. Those people should likely either buy something they have more control over or simply use cash. If the realities of DVC don't fit for you or a given person and they decide to play with some other sandbox, that's fair. The OP was someone being unreasonable OR not understanding the system (likely both) and that is the context of my responses. The principles involved in the OP. This was not directed at you unless you feel the same as the opinion expressed but the OP.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect availability at 7 months out before you know the reality of the situation. I assumed op didn't understand the reality since they were obviously upset by it and surprised. I don't have these expectations because I know better. My larger point starting with my first post however was that it's the reality of dvc. A downside I don't like and one reason we won't buy again. That's all I meant. I was never upset or angry.

I can sympathize with op because I have spoken to several new members right after they buy who thought based on sales pitch they were buying into a system where they have more flexibility than they actually do. I think it's a rude awakening for some. Of course the contract terms are what they are but I can see why there would be disappointment. The avg buyer could do more research beyond the sales pitch, even seek legal advice on the contract. So you know....op could have investigated the realities of membership and perhaps had a better understanding of what they were buying into. I still sympathize.

In my opinion and to make this more case specific...aulani is a large resort and I can see why a new member especially would expect some availability seven months out. If I were a new member with no experience booking other resorts I think it's reasonable to expect something would be available there. For me availability at 7 months is simply a downside that I have given what I consider appropriate weight with further dvc decisions as well as what to do with current contracts.

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[Dean]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect availability at 7 months out before you know the reality of the situation. I assumed op didn't understand the reality since they were obviously upset by it and surprised. I don't have these expectations because I know better. My larger point starting with my first post however was that it's the reality of dvc. A downside I don't like and one reason we won't buy again. That's all I meant. I was never upset or angry.

I can sympathize with op because I have spoken to several new members right after they buy who thought based on sales pitch they were buying into a system where they have more flexibility than they actually do. I think it's a rude awakening for some. Of course the contract terms are what they are but I can see why there would be disappointment. The avg buyer could do more research beyond the sales pitch, even seek legal advice on the contract. So you know....op could have investigated the realities of membership and perhaps had a better understanding of what they were buying into. I still sympathize.

In my opinion and to make this more case specific...aulani is a large resort and I can see why a new member especially would expect some availability seven months out. If I were a new member with no experience booking other resorts I think it's reasonable to expect something would be available there. For me availability at 7 months is simply a downside that I have given what I consider appropriate weight with further dvc decisions as well as what to do with current contracts.

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I guess it depends on your definition of expectation. One could look at the info and make a judgement there will be availability based on parameters and that be an expectation. However, in the context of this thread, the issue was about being upset when there wasn't availability and then essentially demanding availability, that is unreasonable within any definition. That position and/or being upset at cash availability but not points availability both represent lack of true understanding of how the system works. To take the position that one knew but they should make it happen because it's important to us goes to the level of entitlement. If you read the posts from the OP, it seems they technically knew the limitations.

I understand the LEGAL distinctions - my problem is the practical issue - DVC and DVD are not creating any good will with that kind of behavior. I'm pretty sure when they were selling us on all the good things we get as DVC members, they never said "of course it's possible that there will be rooms available to pay for but that won't be available to you on points"

I wonder how many of the 460 villas there are declared so far. One should know that HI is notoriously difficult to get in general in the timeshare world. However, at the end of the day and giving every benefit of the doubt on knowledge and experience, there is no way to justify one being "Spitting Mad at DVC" in this scenario. That's esp. true for one who technically knew this was how the system worked. In reality NONE of us have any right to expect availability at resorts we don't own at.

 

[wishicouldgomoreofte]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect availability at 7 months out before you know the reality of the situation. I assumed op didn't understand the reality since they were obviously upset by it and surprised.
I can sympathize with op because I have spoken to several new members right after they buy who thought based on sales pitch they were buying into a system where they have more flexibility than they actually do. I think it's a rude awakening for some. Of course the contract terms are what they are but I can see why there would be disappointment. The avg buyer could do more research beyond the sales pitch, even seek legal advice on the contract. So you know....op could have investigated the realities of membership and perhaps had a better understanding of what they were buying into. I still sympathize.

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You keep referring to OP like she/they are new owners who don't understand what they bought.
In her signature it shows they have owned AKV since 01/2008. She should understand no availability having been an owner almost 6 years. Should never have made such a promise. But like other posters have done, since she did make the promise, now pay cash for the reservation to follow through on her promise, not blame it on DVC.

 

[wishicouldgomoreofte]

I think this is the crux of the matter for many similar issues. ALL DVC sells AND ALL we buy, is the right to TRY to make a reservation at our home resort and the ability to maybe try to make a exchange reservation to a sister resort along with the financial responsibilities that go with it. That's it, all the rest is lack of understanding of what one is buying and hype without substance.

Boy, isn't that the truth. Something most owners realize after making the first reservation, or at least after the second one.

 

[Dean]

Boy, isn't that the truth. Something most owners realize after making the first reservation, or at least after the second one.

Unfortunately, many owners never realize this or at least fully accept it. I doubt hardly a day goes by you don't see some example here or the other. People who paid twice as much for a resort they could have bought for half to use for items that are not guaranteed and not a good value, all types of thread's where people are upset over things they shouldn't be (reallocation, valet parking, pool closure's, moved due to refurbishments or no animals), etc. OTOH, I realize that we all have expectations and that non of us would have bought assuming worse case scenario (like the parks closing).

 

[disneynutz]

Unfortunately, many owners never realize this or at least fully accept it. I doubt hardly a day goes by you don't see some example here or the other. People who paid twice as much for a resort they could have bought for half to use for items that are not guaranteed and not a good value, all types of thread's where people are upset over things they shouldn't be (reallocation, valet parking, pool closure's, moved due to refurbishments or no animals), etc. OTOH, I realize that we all have expectations and that non of us would have bought assuming worse case scenario (like the parks closing).

It's hard for us to admit that Disney is like every other company, interested only in profit. Owning a DVC interest really shows you the less than magical side of the company and IMO it's getting worse.

Only a few years ago when you had a DVC account or other issue you could find someone in member services who would invest the time to make things right or at least get you an answer. Now we find more CM's who seem to be just doing what they have to or less. They seem to be over worked and under paid and the morale is down. I recently mentioned to a CM that some of the DVC website functions are still broken, like paying dues online. The response was, "yea it's really screwed up", instead of a "you should call XX" or "let me have member accounting call you back".

Bill

 

[crisi]

You keep referring to OP like she/they are new owners who don't understand what they bought.
In her signature it shows they have owned AKV since 01/2008. She should understand no availability having been an owner almost 6 years. Should never have made such a promise. But like other posters have done, since she did make the promise, now pay cash for the reservation to follow through on her promise, not blame it on DVC.

Why? If you always book at home (like I almost always do) and always before seven months (ditto) and don't hang out here to read every thread that comes along - and when you do book away from home, you've never had a problem - how would you know? Disney isn't going to send out communications that says "BWV was at 95% occupancy before the seven month window even opened for Columbus Day weekend this year."

To those of us who spend time here learning from the experiences of others, we know to be cautious regarding availability - especially certain rooms at certain times (and with all the time I spend here, I missed Aulani in June being a difficult one - makes sense now that I know).

I've owned for a dozen years and I've never had an issue making a reservation. I've booked home for most of those years at eleven months - I've never called day by day or walked (that's wrong, I did once when I needed two Boardwalk View rooms during Food and Wine and had guests with me, so I really cared about the view) - and had standard view and boardwalk view over food and wine (because I hang here, I've always been prepared to book a garden/water view). We've stayed at BCV in August without an issue and at VWL without an issue in October - booking both at seven months. Because I am active here, I had a pretty good understanding that I'd need to work the system for HHI next summer, so I did - thanks to everyone who has posted about HHI at seven months over the years, I learned from your experiences. But I'm also strange for this board - a dozen years is six trips for us - not a huge amount of experience compared to some who get in six trips a year on their points - so my sample size in actual experience is small.

 

[Minniesgal]

I agree actually we have only has two trips on our points but that is a total of 24 nights so we have some experience. We always booked out home resort at 11 months and got something we would be happy staying in if we couldn't trade out. We have both time successfully traded out at 7 months so have already stayed at AKV, BLT, OKW and SSR Treehouses. Once we realised how hard it was to get VGC we bought some points there as we definitely want to do East coast west coast trips and we bought a small add on at VGF as a short stay at a monorail resort is how we like to end out trips. We have chosen our homes so we would never be devastated if we couldn't trade out and will always have something booked at 11 months so we can buy flights. If we can trade out bonus if not we have a bed. I think great is the only way to view DVC

We would love to go to Aulani in 2015 on our next trip but we are being expatriated to Australia which means the school holidays are in June which means Aulani is probably a pipe dream. Are we disappointed no not really as we will book VGC, VGF, and AKV instead and keep Aulani for a future year when we can go at a less popular time.

I can't see any other way to mentally use DVC points as anything else will just lead to disappointment

 

[Dean]

It's hard for us to admit that Disney is like every other company, interested only in profit. Owning a DVC interest really shows you the less than magical side of the company and IMO it's getting worse.

Only a few years ago when you had a DVC account or other issue you could find someone in member services who would invest the time to make things right or at least get you an answer. Now we find more CM's who seem to be just doing what they have to or less. They seem to be over worked and under paid and the morale is down. I recently mentioned to a CM that some of the DVC website functions are still broken, like paying dues online. The response was, "yea it's really screwed up", instead of a "you should call XX" or "let me have member accounting call you back".

Bill

Bill, I don't think it's that bad. While I do think they're interested in profits, I also think they have an honest interest in doing things well. Not that they always do but that they have the desire. Personally I think much of the issues over the years are more that they really aren't that experienced or knowledgeable about actually running timeshares and you see more reaction then damage control rather than forethought and implementation. However, in this situation for the thread we're on, there is no blame for DVC or DVD, this is all on the OP IMO.