Spirit strike??

[PlutoPony]

It's reported by the SunSentinel that the NMB called both sides back to the negotiating table today. This will be the first meeting since talks broke off Saturday a.m.

 

[Tess]

It looks as if they are going back to the table to talk this a.m. I sure hope they work this out today! Of course, that means I have to do a lot of repacking. I will do it though if it means we fly rather than drive.

I, like others who have posted, had absolutely no idea there was even a potential for strike until the day before it happened. We had planned to drive all along until Spirit offered a last minute fare with perfect days and times for us.

For those here blaming the consumers, we are not all as travel savvy as others and we purchased our tickets in good faith. Ultimately it is us and the other nonstriking employees who bear the brunt of this unfortunate mess.

I have no problem paying a reasonable rate for fares. My problem with airlines in general lies in knowing what is a reasonable rate. When you check for flights on Saturday and it is over $300 p/p and then check on a Wednesday and get less than $150 p/p, I don't think the consumer can be blamed for choosing the lower price. If the airlines would quit playing its games with fares, perhaps there would be more equitable rates for all the airlines and the consumer as well. Which brings us back to the fair market issue. . .it is a conundrum for certain.

 

[Lewisc]

The devil is in the details, there were arrangements made with other carriers, unfortunately because of the unionized nature of air travel, particularly pilots, the arrangements are not worth the paper they were printed on because no pilot will fly the route for Spirit.

........... Again, no one is forcing anyone to work for Spirit. If the pilots, the crew, the CEO are unhappy with the income they receive, they are able to look for another job.

In what world did Spirit think unionized pilots would cross a picket line? My post said no viable arrangements were made. Spirit may have thought the claim gave them negotiating room. Members of the public may have been fooled but not the union.

You're right, no one is forcing anyone to work for Spirit. Unionized pilots are exercising their legal right to strike.

It's disgusting Spirit is making customers wait on hold to get a real refund. I hope most customers understand they can deal directly with their credit card company.

 

[SHOREDAD]

http://blog.seattlepi.com/worldairlinenews/archives/211159.asp

Not sure if this statement is good or bad for those of us who booked.

However it does point out the profitability of Spirit. Even with low fares they are profitable. I know this is in part because their workers are not paid fair wages compared to their peers in the industry, but it proves that they are making money.

 

[SHOREDAD]

Spirit's pilots do earn a good living and are welcome to quit and go to another airline if they have issues with their pay. Shame on the striking pilots - its disgusting and they should feel ashamed. Unfortunately, as with most union antics, I'm betting most Spirit pilots don't even want to strike, but crossing picket lines is essentially destroying your future career in the disgustingly heavily unionized pilot world.

Meanwhile, while the pilots are bringing home six figure incomes and making over $120 an hour, nearly 2,000 other Spirit employees who don't enjoy the upper middle class lifestyle of Spirit pilots might lose their jobs on Wednesday. That's who I feel for. I hope all the willingly striking pilots lose their jobs.



DOT average fare data shows that Spirit, on average, is 40 to 50% lower than competitors on its domestic routes.

I agree with you on all points. Do you have a link for the DOT data I would like to look at the data.

 

[PlutoPony]

Spirit's pilots do earn a good living and are welcome to quit and go to another airline if they have issues with their pay. Shame on the striking pilots - its disgusting and they should feel ashamed. Unfortunately, as with most union antics, I'm betting most Spirit pilots don't even want to strike, but crossing picket lines is essentially destroying your future career in the disgustingly heavily unionized pilot world.

Meanwhile, while the pilots are bringing home six figure incomes and making over $120 an hour, nearly 2,000 other Spirit employees who don't enjoy the upper middle class lifestyle of Spirit pilots might lose their jobs on Wednesday. That's who I feel for. I hope all the willingly striking pilots lose their jobs. .

I truly don't have a dog in this fight but have been following this saga for quite a while (since Skybus went under). 98% of the Spirit pilots voted for this strike, so I think the case can be made that the pilots DO want to strike. Shoot, after attempting for 4 years to negotiate with my employer I might be tempted to do something a little drastic to get a contract myself . From what I have been reading in the business press, the devil is in the details on pilot contracts and that was the problem with the last minute contract offered up by Spirit. Bottom line is that in order to make those lofty yearly pay rates mentioned above and in Spirit communiques, the pilots have to fly a majority of their days off - and likely time out in hours in November of each year. Not a good way to run a business. There are a lot of other contract details that are not considered "pilot friendly" but suffice to say when you see business writers trash management for offering up a poor contract to workers, you know it's a bad situation all around.

Add to that Clark Howard lashing out at Spirit's owner yesterday for being contemptuous of his customers and the picture of this airline isn't pretty.

Hope they make progress today for everyone's sake

 

[5boyz]

Here's hoping for a good outcome today or soon!!!

 

[magpie889]

I would like to point out that it is the company that wasn't budging on the contract for the last few years! The pilots would like to get paid decently for the work that they do.....and before someone says that pilots get paid a lot, please do some research on that. It is the very senior pilots at the majors that get that kind of pay. And yes, been where contract negotiations affected me personally and it is very frustrating how the general public views pilots vs airlines.

ETA: I just want to make sure that you know this not a personal attack on you. There are many that seem to think that the pilots are at fault and your post makes it seem that is your opinion.

I have nothing against the pilots and believe what they do is hard work and something personally I can not do. I also was not saying they get paid to much or anything like that. I was simply saying I hope they reach an agreement bc they are losing money being on strike as is! If anything I would blame the airline before them! Sorry if I worded in a way that was against the pilots I was just stating I hope its resolved so we can all make our Disney vacations thats all how about I say I blame the airline? Give the pilots more money and let us fly?!

 

[SHOREDAD]

Cancelled through thursday june 17th now. As posted on spirits website

 

[5boyz]

Cancelled through thursday june 17th now. As posted on spirits website

I assume that means the talks today did not go well!!!! Come on someone put an offer on the table that acceptable. Man I am trying to be positive...but it is getting harder to do.

 

[PlutoPony]

I assume that means the talks today did not go well!!!! Come on someone put an offer on the table that acceptable. Man I am trying to be positive...but it is getting harder to do.

It may just be a recognition that it could take 2 days to things back in the air once they finally have an agreement. Any negotiated contract has to go to the membership for a vote before it can take effect. Plus I think planes will have to be inspected for airworthiness since they've been idle for a while, and pilots will have to commute in to their base.

 

[5boyz]

It may just be a recognition that it could take 2 days to things back in the air once they finally have an agreement. Any negotiated contract has to go to the membership for a vote before it can take effect. Plus I think planes will have to be inspected for airworthiness since they've been idle for a while, and pilots will have to commute in to their base.

Thanks Pluto Pony!!!!

 

[SHOREDAD]

I am not tryng to be negative here, just realistic.

Just because it is only until Thursday doesn't mean that things are going well. It seems from the articles I have read they are far apart. That being said it could also be that both sides underestimated each other and now that a strike has occured negotiations will move faster. However that doesn't mean it will be settled in 2 days, they have negotiatied for 3 years.

I hope it is 2 days for everyone involved, and I am staying positive!! Keeping my fingers crossed

 

[5boyz]

I am not tryng to be negative here, just realistic.

Just because it is only until Thursday doesn't mean that things are going well. It seems from the articles I have read they are far apart. That being said it could also be that both sides underestimated each other and now that a strike has occured negotiations will move faster. However that doesn't mean it will be settled in 2 days, they have negotiatied for 3 years.

I hope it is 2 days for everyone involved, and I am staying positive!! Keeping my fingers crossed

No problem Shoredad...I hear ya!!! I dont fly until July 23rd so........but would like to see other people get to their destinations also before me.

 

[tazlikesrobots]

I assume that means the talks today did not go well!!!! Come on someone put an offer on the table that acceptable. Man I am trying to be positive...but it is getting harder to do.

Totally agree! If the strike is not resolved, I will be looking at 14 days in Orlando and only have hotel reservations for 4 days....

 

[SHOREDAD]

No problem Shoredad...I hear ya!!! I dont fly until July 23rd so........but would like to see other people get to their destinations also before me.

Aug 16th here. I just hope we get more notice than others are getting. It is not enough notice to get something in place that is affordable.

 

[Tess]

Aug 16th here. I just hope we get more notice than others are getting. It is not enough notice to get something in place that is affordable.

Amen--we're still waiting and we are scheduled to fly Saturday. . . I'm holding airport hotel reservations, car reservations in FL, etc. If I have to drive, I want to go Thursday night and will still need to book a room for Friday in FL.

 

[DebbieB]

Meanwhile, while the pilots are bringing home six figure incomes and making over $120 an hour, nearly 2,000 other Spirit employees who don't enjoy the upper middle class lifestyle of Spirit pilots might lose their jobs on Wednesday. That's who I feel for. I hope all the willingly striking pilots lose their jobs.

Don't forget pilots don't work 40 hour weeks. They only get paid for the time they actually fly. I doubt they are making six figures on average at Spirit.

I saw this online, don't know if it's true:

"But you have to take a big pay cut to go to Spirit. You go from $57,600 to $34,560. A $23,000 pay cut to "advance your career." Overpaid? It will take you at least 9 years to get to captain at Spirit. Here is the pay:

Y1 $34,560
Y2 $44,928
Y3 $48,384
Y4 $51,840
Y5 $56,160
Y6 $57,888 Yay after 6 years at Spirit you make what you made 7 years ago (at the regionals). Overpaid?
Y7 $58,752
Y8 $60,480
Y9 $60,480 Commercial aviator for 18 years and make $60,000 (starting pay for software engineers)"

 

[Corwin]

Spirit's pilots do earn a good living and are welcome to quit and go to another airline if they have issues with their pay. Shame on the striking pilots - its disgusting and they should feel ashamed. Unfortunately, as with most union antics, I'm betting most Spirit pilots don't even want to strike, but crossing picket lines is essentially destroying your future career in the disgustingly heavily unionized pilot world.

Meanwhile, while the pilots are bringing home six figure incomes and making over $120 an hour, nearly 2,000 other Spirit employees who don't enjoy the upper middle class lifestyle of Spirit pilots might lose their jobs on Wednesday. That's who I feel for. I hope all the willingly striking pilots lose their jobs.

I don't think you have any idea how pilots are compensated.

See here for Spirit pilot pay rates.

Spirit Captains make between $65-$138/flight-hour. First Officers (co-pilots) make between $40-71/flight-hour. Considering that pilots only get paid for the time they spend in the air, this is not great pay. Note that a flight hour does NOT equal hours at work and/or away from home.

According to the link above, Spirit pilots are guaranteed only 72 hours of flight time per month. Using the rates above, a Spirit Captain is only guaranteed $56K/year at the low end, and $120K/year at the high end. First Officers are only guaranteed $34K/year at the low end, and $61K/year at the high end.

Note that all of these pay rates are for pilots who have "made it into the majors," flying large passenger jets. I had an uncle who flew for 7 years for a regional airline trying to get enough flight time to get a job like this. He finally had to give it all up and quit because he was making less than $15,000/year, which was not even enough to pay for his apartment. The regional carriers are like "internships" or "apprenticeships" for pilots trying to get enough flight time to fly for the major airlines.

And a discount major carrier like Spirit pays its pilots a lot less than the so-called legacy carriers (like American Airlines).

So even if a Spirit Captain with a lot of seniority is making six figures, he's making up for a lot of low pay earlier in his career. In any event, most of the Spirit pilots are making a lot less than that.

 

[buzzmom3]

Amen--we're still waiting and we are scheduled to fly Saturday. . . I'm holding airport hotel reservations, car reservations in FL, etc. If I have to drive, I want to go Thursday night and will still need to book a room for Friday in FL.

I'm with you! We are scheduled to fly Monday and would like to leave Saturday if we need to drive. I have a car service and a grocery order I won't need if we end up driving. I just want to know either way. This just stinks!