Spinoff to discuss semantics

[alizesmom]

Mother thread has wandered off topic to discuss labels given. I mean no offense but question whether we have become too sensitive concerning how to describe abilities or lack thereof. Have we all become spin doctors in order to place ourselves and our children in a certain light?

Terms we find acceptable change from year to year, person to person and in various regions. Shouldn't they reflect the person described in a way that is accurate? Challenged indicates that there is an obstacle that can be overcome, delayed means that catching up is possible to name a few. Some of the unacceptable words may actually give a more concise image.

We should allow people to describe themselves or their children in terms that they find most comfortable doing without being critical. Just because you find a word insulting or demeaning doesn't mean I do. How about we support each other instead of picking at what words we use?

For what it's worth , I have a daughter who is developmentally delayed. I believe she has a chance to catch up. I also have a son who can only be accurately described as a word that I don't dare print here. I just don't find any other term to be accurate.

So, can we agree to disagree?

 

[stitchlovestink]

Mother thread has wandered off topic to discuss labels given. I mean no offense but question whether we have become too sensitive concerning how to describe abilities or lack thereof. Have we all become spin doctors in order to place ourselves and our children in a certain light?

Terms we find acceptable change from year to year, person to person and in various regions. Shouldn't they reflect the person described in a way that is accurate? Challenged indicates that there is an obstacle that can be overcome, delayed means that catching up is possible to name a few. Some of the unacceptable words may actually give a more concise image.

We should allow people to describe themselves or their children in terms that they find most comfortable doing without being critical. Just because you find a word insulting or demeaning doesn't mean I do. How about we support each other instead of picking at what words we use?

For what it's worth , I have a daughter who is developmentally delayed. I believe she has a chance to catch up. I also have a son who can only be accurately described as a word that I don't dare print here. I just don't find any other term to be accurate.

So, can we agree to disagree?

Very Nicely written

 

[grainsmommy]

agreed

 

[stitchlovestink]

agreed

And if *you* are speaking about yourself or your family member, others really don't have the right to get offended. *You* should be able to use the terminology that you feel is most appropriate. Well at least that's my opinion....

 

[mistysue]

And if *you* are speaking about yourself or your family member, others really don't have the right to get offended. *You* should be able to use the terminology that you feel is most appropriate. Well at least that's my opinion....

I think its a valuable opinion. Its hard enough to describe situations without having to rephrase ten times for word preferences.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . We should allow people to describe themselves or their children in terms that they find most comfortable doing without being . . .

NO PROBLEM.
1) When describing your own situation(s), you may use any term you wish.
2) When others describe your situation(s), they MUST be free to use their own terms.
3) I don't mind when people use terms, but that shouldn't force me to use the same terms/descriptions.
4) And, even during the same conversation.

 

[Talking Hands]

NO PROBLEM.
1) When describing your own situation(s), you may use any term you wish.
2) When others describe your situation(s), they MUST be free to use their own terms.y
3) I don't mind when people use terms, but that shouldn't force me to use the same terms/descriptions.
4) And, even during the same conversation.

I have to disagree with this. People need to be sensitive to the terms that are preferred by the community of people having the disability.
If you tell a deaf person they are disabled because of their deafness they are very insulted. They can do anything you and I can except hear.
People who have mobility issues don't want to hear someone call them a crip and so on.

 

[alizesmom]

I have to disagree with this. People need to be sensitive to the terms that are preferred by the community of people having the disability. If you tell a deaf person they are disabled because of their deafness they are very insulted. They can do anything you and I can except hear. People who have mobility issues don't want to hear someone call them a crip and so on.

Please. Agree to disagree. A person can only speak for themselves or their loved ones. I, for one, find many terms archaic but it takes a lot to offend me. While I would be upset if someone sneeringly called my son a retard, I have no problem saying he's profoundly mentally retarded. If someone told me that I was offending them with my language I would stop during that conversation but not otherwise.

In all honesty I find political correctness offensive since it tells me how I should and shouldn't refer to my own children. So, as I asked, let people refer to themselves as they please.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Please. Agree to disagree. A person can only speak for themselves or their loved ones. I, for one, find many terms archaic but it takes a lot to offend me. While I would be upset if someone sneeringly called my son a retard, I have no problem saying he's profoundly mentally retarded. If someone told me that I was offending them with my language I would stop during that conversation but not otherwise.

In all honesty I find political correctness offensive since it tells me how I should and shouldn't refer to my own children. So, as I asked, let people refer to themselves as they please.

Would've never reckoned I'ld see the day where this would be said on this board and the individual stating it not already being eaten alive, spit out, only to be told off some more.

Let's just say I totally agree, but have long since learned when to waist energy on it in certain situations/certain locations.

I don't care about words, if I care about anything it is the tone and meaning behind a spoken or written text. I've found that to be anything but demeaning, judging or discriminatory in so many situations, I'ld rather focus on the positive and work from there. But than again, I was one off those who didn't give a hoot about Colours having a type of wheelchair called spazz (while US brand, in for instance UK spazz can get you in very heated pc-situations) and having one of them underneath my bumm for a couple of years before moving on to another model that fits my altered needs better.

I respect not all think alike. I realise the ultimate core behind that is very loaded and sensitive. But I don't think it's too much to ask for it to be a two way street. Respect is not just taken, but should also be given. I would never hound my friend how she should or should not label her, as she views it, disabilities. I might have my opinions or not, which in most happen to agree in this case, but that's my "issue" and not hers to be bothered with. Just as she would never dare to dream tell me how to view or label my disabilities, syndrome. And while I might laugingly describe my stomach as an ever extending "gatenkaas" (sorry, Dutch word for cheese with loads of air holes, no true english word for) with all of the holes and tubes in it, I wouldn't dare expect someone with the same tubes and ostomies to use the same words, let alone expect to have the same light sentiment about it. Within reason, I will use whatever term they are comfortable with themselves when discussing them or their situation. I do draw the line though when it comes to describing my own stomach, that is and shall be known as "gatenkaas".

To me it's like religion. I'll respect everybodies religion within reason, as long as words (or actions) are not meant to harm, discrimate or demean. When in someone elses house or surroundings, I will adept. So for instance not just start eating but respect that indivuals wish to pray before eating. Or when entering a home, taking off my shoes. Same as I expect the same respect when in my house. And for me mutual respect can only be true respect when that also means not trying to convert anybody and shuv the other into the same model. Whether it being trying to convert to ones personal religion or in what words someone uses. Unfortunately I've found it to be so much like religion, that just as with religion it can too easily be succesfully abused as an instrument to create harm instead of mutual respect.

 

[kirstenb1]

OP, I have a friend who's 34 yr old dd has Down Syndrome. He and I are very politically incorrect when talking about the challenges our families face (our younger dd has autism). One day, he was describing a conversation with her case worker. The case worker said, ___ has an intellectual disability. My friend said, that may be, but my dd is R(word). The case worker was taken by surprise. But my friend said, when ___ was little, everyone used the R word. It wasn't an insult; it described dd. She wasn't "delayed"; in that she wasn't likely to catch up. He loves ___ and has lived with her for 34 yrs.

I feel you always need to consider the motivation of the person. His motivation is to cut the crap, and discuss things in the language he's familiar with.

 

[mistysue]

I have to disagree with this. People need to be sensitive to the terms that are preferred by the community of people having the disability.
If you tell a deaf person they are disabled because of their deafness they are very insulted. They can do anything you and I can except hear.
People who have mobility issues don't want to hear someone call them a crip and so on.

Completely serious here, I know no individual can speak for everybody, but I had no idea it would be insulting to say a deaf person was disabled. (It has never come up, I generally describe deaf people with adjectives like "tall" "female" etc.) So you do mind if I ask what about the word makes it insulting? I guess I hear the word disabled and in my mind it signifies an ability set different than random "average" person. All three of my children have situations that result in their having a disability but it never seemed like a negative word to me. In your experience is it used as a negative against you? Or is it reflecting the awkwardness of the situation where to me hearing is "average" but to others hearing/not hearing isn't part of what "average" is composed of? Or am I completely missing something? If this is rude or mean I'm sorry, I don't mean it to be. I just read that and didn't know if I'm a jerk and didn't even know it.

 

[bookwormde]

OP, I have a friend who's 34 yr old dd has Down Syndrome. He and I are very politically incorrect when talking about the challenges our families face (our younger dd has autism). One day, he was describing a conversation with her case worker. The case worker said, ___ has an intellectual disability. My friend said, that may be, but my dd is R(word). The case worker was taken by surprise. But my friend said, when ___ was little, everyone used the R word. It wasn't an insult; it described dd. She wasn't "delayed"; in that she wasn't likely to catch up. He loves ___ and has lived with her for 34 yrs.

I feel you always need to consider the motivation of the person. His motivation is to cut the crap, and discuss things in the language he's familiar with.

I understand that some might use the r word, but the issue is that the individual being described will then internalize the pejorative use of the word elsewhere. It is also not very informative since when it was used broadly, it did little to identify the particular disability an individual has.
The n word is also used, but most people would not because of its broad use in a pejorative manner.

A "deaf person" is also not typically used since it is not people first language and creates a primary definition of a person as their disability.

 

[alizesmom]

I understand that some might use the r word, but the issue is that the individual being described will then internalize the pejorative use of the word elsewhere. It is also not very informative since when it was used broadly, it did little to identify the particular disability an individual has. The n word is also used, but most people would not because of its broad use in a pejorative manner. A "deaf person" is also not typically used since it is not people first language and creates a primary definition of a person as their disability.

Actually when used properly it just refers to someone's IQ. A person who is profoundly mentally retarded is not likely to internalize the word.

 

[Talking Hands]

To me having a hearing loss and being Deaf is not a disability but an ability to live in both world so an enhancement. Because I grew up hearing I speak well and can deal with the hearing world as long as I am one on one through speech reading. But I am also involved in the Deaf world and use ASL. My Deaf friends consider deafness as a different normal. We have the ability to communicate in sign language and with paper and pencil as well as using technology such text and videophone to make phone calls to both deaf and hearing friends and family. We don't consider deafness a disability and for me hearing can be a disability because background noise drives me up a wall.

 

[bookwormde]

Actually when used properly it just refers to someone's IQ. A person who is profoundly mentally retarded is not likely to internalize the word.

If everyone stuck to the strict clinical definition that would be great, but even clinicians let the boundaries slip significantly. Lot of folks who are not profoundly intellectually disabled have been described with the r word which combined with it being used in a demining way is why its usage is ending. Like many things it is not the initial intent, it is what people do with it.

 

[bookwormde]

To me having a hearing loss and being Deaf is not a disability but an ability to live in both world so an enhancement. Because I grew up hearing I speak well and can deal with the hearing world as long as I am one on one through speech reading. But I am also involved in the Deaf world and use ASL. My Deaf friends consider deafness as a different normal. We have the ability to communicate in sign language and with paper and pencil as well as using technology such text and videophone to make phone calls to both deaf and hearing friends and family. We don't consider deafness a disability and for me hearing can be a disability because background noise drives me up a wall.

Not all that different with how I view my Autism genetics, it comes with benefits and opportunities, but is does come with areas where my ability is not the same and is less as the majority (a relative disability). Disabilities are defined pre supports and adaptations, many of us do not feel limited by our disabilities and that is great. I also find it funny that average people have limitations in ability compared to individuals with Autism genetics, but since they are the "standard" there disabilities are not recognized.

 

[Mrsjvb]

In all honesty I find political correctness offensive since it tells me how I should and shouldn't refer to my own children. So, as I asked, let people refer to themselves as they please.

I *heart* you.

I am handicapped. I am disabled. I am NOT 'differently abled' Whatever the eff that is supposed to mean.. everyone is different so I fail to comprehend the logic of using a feel good term to protect my precious widdle self esteem.

someone tries to patronize me by the condescending use of some new age term , and I assure you I will correct them PDQ.

 

[Schmeck]

Not all that different with how I view my Autism genetics, it comes with benefits and opportunities, but is does come with areas where my ability is not the same and is less as the majority (a relative disability). Disabilities are defined pre supports and adaptations, many of us do not feel limited by our disabilities and that is great. I also find it funny that average people have limitations in ability compared to individuals with Autism genetics, but since they are the "standard" there disabilities are not recognized.

I've never met an average person, so I have no idea what you are talking about. What limitations in ability does this average person have compared to a person with "Autism genetics"? I'd love to hear something funny about their disabilities!

 

[bookwormde]

I've never met an average person, so I have no idea what you are talking about. What limitations in ability does this average person have compared to a person with "Autism genetics"? I'd love to hear something funny about their disabilities!

Yes I should have put "standard" in quotes since it is just a statistical norm.

While we find lots of things that limit NT ability amusing and interesting, I do not think thinking of it as "finding thing funny about their disabilities" as appropriate since this is often used to demine or degrade. Inside many ASD/NT mixed families every one does laugh about each others "gaps" but is it done out of understanding, acceptance and love.

NT minds mostly do not have the high level non linear processing capability that exists in many ASD genetics individuals, there are many ASD sensory abilities that are exceptionally beneficial, such as precise pitch, smell taste differentiation etc. Ability to hyper focus and do logic based analysis with much less social perception and imperative contamination. Yes these lack of abilities can create amusing situations, at least from the perspective of those who accept and embrace the differences between individuals who are NT and those who are have Autism genetics.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Yes I should have put "standard" in quotes since it is just a statistical norm.

While we find lots of things that limit NT ability amusing and interesting, I do not think thinking of it as "finding thing funny about their disabilities" as appropriate since this is often used to demine or degrade. Inside many ASD/NT mixed families every one does laugh about each others "gaps" but is it done out of understanding, acceptance and love.

NT minds mostly do not have the high level non linear processing capability that exists in many ASD genetics individuals, there are many ASD sensory abilities that are exceptionally beneficial, such as precise pitch, smell taste differentiation etc. Ability to hyper focus and do logic based analysis with much less social perception and imperative contamination. Yes these lack of abilities can create amusing situations, at least from the perspective of those who accept and embrace the differences between individuals who are NT and those who are have Autism genetics.

I'm pretty sure that if a non-disabled person came on here and posted that they laughed at people with disabilities, there would be an uproar, and rightfully so.