Spin off of age to get married.....My step-daughter is getting married Saturday

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Ummmmm, okay...

Are you referring to my post?

 

[Westcoastwild]

I will admit I get both sides of the situation here. Input from a parent can carry a lot of weight but if it comes off in a "you're crazy you're going to find out just how bad of a decision you've made, you're not ready, etc" well yeah that can turn the person the other direction..right towards those who already fully support their decision.

I get that your husband has sent valentine's day cards and gifts but depending on how it all went down and how she actually feels it could seem more of an insincere attempt at reconciliation. Almost like "hey here's a card and gifts (even if that is the norm)...forgive me now??". Obviously none of us are actually involved in the situation so it's a bit hard to really get an understanding of the full situation.

Believe me my sister-in-law (now 20) and her husband (now 21) are not ready for the full marriage life even after having been married for over a year and are still be heavily supported by their families (just last week the sister-in-law asked for gas money from her mom....) and we all knew they didn't have the maturity aspect but as controlling as the mother-in-law can be she fully supported her daughter. I personally don't like how financially dependent the kids are but 99% of it is due to how they were raised not their age.

And with no offense meant but when you say "she would not accept and monetary help for the wedding and has cut ties. Really, Really childish." that comes across (at least to me) like the it was either your and your husband's way or the highway and because she didn't accept financial assistance and decided to not invite you guys to the wedding you view her as childish. It could very well be that to her it wasn't worth the stress, the worry, the feeling of not having support for her dad and whatever led to the fallout to invite you guys to the wedding and honestly it could be that not inviting her grandparents (even though I totally feel for the grandparents) was just easier than having them there but not you and her dad. ETA: I get that there was the issue of her wanting financial assistance without the input (maybe she viewed that as trying to control the situation since she found out you guys didn't approve of the wedding so she decided to go without financial assistence and you guys)..but TBH that to me is a whole different issue/thread of giving financial assistance=you get input/heavy input into the wedding but no need to open that can of worms lol.

Generally speaking people aren't like light switches. Emotions and feelings and past issues generally can't just be turned off many times. It appears as if you wanted it to be fixed enough where you could be invited to the wedding but that may have been unrealistic given what she has going on in her mind. It may have not been enough time and regardless of your viewpoint on the marriage the aspect of time needed should be respected. Perhaps after the wedding when things have had a time to adjust you guys might all be able to reconcile.

Now for sure there are issues on the bio mom's side so yeah TBH it's an all around mess I agree.

I think you've described what feel I about this the best.

I know the OP feels like the divorce and all is ancient news but I think it's really likely there's some festering going on. And I know a lot of people who will only contribute to their kid's wedding if they get a ton of input on how said money is spent. It's a weapon.

It was probably fairly apparent to the kid that the dad was not going to be supportive at all and truth be told, can't blame her there. She may be immature and her mom might be all kinds of crazy, but I think it's a pretty pretty common reaction to disinvite people from your wedding who you know openly disapprove.

It isn't about age. I mean on the surface it is. But my parents are very conservative. I love them dearly, but if they don't approve, they're like mules. They made a few choices (and remarks) when my sister was 19 and stupid and she has forgiven but not forgotten. We're over 30 now, and even though she admits they were mostly right, she lost faith. I lost faith. I don't blame my parents for being who they are but I blame them for how they handled it, and I would not do the same to my own children. Being right is cold comfort much of the time.

Because here's the thing:

Say this marriage falls apart. She won't want to come to you for help she may need because you'll tell her you told her so.

Say this marriage doesn't fall apart. I know you have valid reasons for objecting, I agree it's not an ideal situation. But life is not ideal, and no marriage is perfect. So it may work out. And what will stick with the son in law is that you don't like him. What will stick with potential grandkids is that you disapprove- of their grandmother, of their parents, and basically of them.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I would absolutely cut child support the day she gets married. Not to get back at her or to be passive aggressive, but because it's only right IMO. If one of my children were to get married I would completely agree with my XH not paying child support. I've told my children time and time again that when they get married they need to be financially secure. It's a very adult decision and you need to be a well rounded adult before going that route. XH and I will stop paying for college if they decide to get married before they are done college. My kids qualify for financial aid due to me being a "single" mother so if they were to get married and have to do that paperwork on their own with their incomes, then they are responsible for college on their own. That's how I see it.

I would not cut them off my health insurance if I could help it. It's not something I would mess with.

 

[rajak73]

These two kids are not ready to be married, in any way, shape or form.

I will agree with you on that just by what you wrote, everyone is different, DW and were ready to spend the rest of our lives together. I just don't like the adage of "well you're only 19 so you are not ready to be married." My oldest brother was not marriage material at 60, LOL.

 

[DaisyJ]

I will agree with you on that just by what you wrote, everyone is different, DW and were ready to spend the rest of our lives together. I just don't like the adage of "well you're only 19 so you are not ready to be married." My oldest brother was not marriage material at 60, LOL.

I don't say that because of their ages. I say that because of their lack of employment, so they need to have someone else support them, their immaturity, lack of knowledge about, well, pretty much anything, and their lack of motivation and a plan.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think you've described what feel I about this the best.

I know the OP feels like the divorce and all is ancient news but I think it's really likely there's some festering going on. And I know a lot of people who will only contribute to their kid's wedding if they get a ton of input on how said money is spent. It's a weapon.

It was probably fairly apparent to the kid that the dad was not going to be supportive at all and truth be told, can't blame her there. She may be immature and her mom might be all kinds of crazy, but I think it's a pretty pretty common reaction to disinvite people from your wedding who you know openly disapprove.

It isn't about age. I mean on the surface it is. But my parents are very conservative. I love them dearly, but if they don't approve, they're like mules. They made a few choices (and remarks) when my sister was 19 and stupid and she has forgiven but not forgotten. We're over 30 now, and even though she admits they were mostly right, she lost faith. I lost faith. I don't blame my parents for being who they are but I blame them for how they handled it, and I would not do the same to my own children. Being right is cold comfort much of the time.

Because here's the thing:

Say this marriage falls apart. She won't want to come to you for help she may need because you'll tell her you told her so.

Say this marriage doesn't fall apart. I know you have valid reasons for objecting, I agree it's not an ideal situation. But life is not ideal, and no marriage is perfect. So it may work out. And what will stick with the son in law is that you don't like him. What will stick with potential grandkids is that you disapprove- of their grandmother, of their parents, and basically of them.

Yeah you've described a lot of where I was coming from. Sure may not be the way lots of folks feel but hey that's perfectly fine.

And yes I do agree on your "here's the thing" part of your quote.

It's obviously difficult since we don't know the family and all but for me I was just providing a different possible perspective to the situation.

 

[rajak73]

I don't say that because of their ages

I was just talking about the age in general, not directed at you. You have great points and I will agree with you about the employment, etc, they have NO idea what they are getting into. It isn't always hugs and roses!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I will agree with you on that just by what you wrote, everyone is different, DW and were ready to spend the rest of our lives together. I just don't like the adage of "well you're only 19 so you are not ready to be married." My oldest brother was not marriage material at 60, LOL.

Soooo my mom is having her own issues and well has been for quite some time. She's currently 58 but for a long time in the dating world she's had a hard time finding guys who are ready to commit to marriage. Many of them are stuck in their ways, used to being on their own, etc. And TBH my mom is sorta like that too (though it doesn't seem to be as extreme as the guys she's been dating). She's also seen some people she knows get married to get married simply because they were getting older and then suddenly realized that. Age can have an impact on marriage but that isn't just for the young.

 

[elaine amj]

XH and I will stop paying for college if they decide to get married before they are done college. My kids qualify for financial aid due to me being a "single" mother so if they were to get married and have to do that paperwork on their own with their incomes, then they are responsible for college on their own. That's how I see it.

I would not cut them off my health insurance if I could help it. It's not something I would mess with.

I agree. When I got married, that was the end of my parents' financial support. I was still in college and we took over paying my tuition. Never even dreamed of asking my parents to keep supporting us. That said, my brother did rely on my parents' support even after marriage (and he was nearly 30 by then, so not young) and now at nearly 40, he's managing, but just barely. Our situations are not the same though. My DH had a good, solid job while my brother has always made just enough to support his family. His wife has health issues and isn't really able to work.

 

[NHdisneylover]

He has not "hands off" (no offense taken) His kids have been taken on all family vacations and included in all events at our home. She wanted us to pay for part of the wedding but told us she did not want our opinion or advise about any of it as she "has to be in control of my special day." After he voiced his concerns to her, she would not accept and monetary help for the wedding and has cut ties. Really, Really childish. I would not tell my husband to keep his mouth shut. He is not my child! lol

I hope this doesn'T come across as mean or offensive, becuase I don't mean it that way---but i htink it might be worth considering how the prior fathering has led up to some of the issues now. I mean, including your kid in vacations and events is sort of a minimal decent thing to do (IMO) but not really hands on parenting.
What did your husband do to help make sure she wasn't overly sheltered, that hse had oppurtunities to make friends her own age at least when she was visiting you and not at her mom's (if mom made that impossible)? How did he advocate for her and help her learn about the world and get real world experiences and gain the maturity she is so clearly lacking?

IMO, a truly hands on parent would have been noticing that and working on it for years if at all possible. If he is now upset that his daughter is too immature to include him on the wedding or understand that it is not reasonable for her and the soon to be husband to survive on a part time Starbucks salary, he needs to llok at if his complacency in allowign her mother and grandmother to shelter her so much and control her is one reason she is in the situation she is in.

I don't think that makes the wedding a good idea, or that it means he should keep up with child support for a married adult, etc (after all she has to learn about the real world sometime)--but maybe if he can look honestly at his role in helping to create the situation he can find ways to better relate to his daughter now and help keep those lines open.

Good luck--I am sure it is tough on you both and can tell you care and he loves her so that must make it very hard to watch what you are sure is a mistake

 

[Wishing on a star]

While I am not going to point any fingers, at all, regarding a parent trying to have a reasonable discussion with their 18-19 year old child about such serious, life-affecting, plans....
And, I will call out anybody who is throwing flames on that one....

Some of the thoughts in the above post do cross my mind.

But, I also know from the personal experience of somebody very close, that these things can be VERY complex....
This girl, the same age as OP's step-daughter, has a father who has done everything in his power to control her... keep her separated from her mother, minimize any influence in her life... isolate her... (no phone) etc...
This man could, and would, stop at NOTHING... We are talking about toxic abusive control.
Any efforts on the mother's part would be met with threats, physical confrontation, endless legal motions, etc....
He kept legal motions to gain sole custody going until all the lawyers and judges in this area just quit even working with him.
Until she was nearly 18 years old. Just unimaginable.

The mother would be the one accused of causing trouble, being an unfit parent for talking negatively about the girls father, etc....
She never felt that she had anybody on her side, any say-so, etc....
Those that wish to gain control and isolation are VERY good at going about what they are doing.
Even if it is in a more quiet and passive--aggressive way. (instead of like this aggressive father)

I am not familiar, at all, with what kind of shared custody or parental rights the OP's husband might have had.
But, at some point, the whole situation and ongoing battle becomes detrimental to the kid.
At some point, I don't think it is all that uncommon for one parent to just step back and try to work within the status-quo.

I do think that I would have done more than this girl's mother... I will admit that.
But, I don't feel like throwing stones unless I have walked a mile in those shoes.

I was VERY scared for the future of this girl.
But, unlike the OP's daughter... we helped open her eyes before she reached her 18th birthday....
Her mother took her on an out of state trip just before her 18th birthday... and all of the pieces fell into place.
This young lady has not spoken to her father for months now, not since her 18th birthday.
Sad... but for the best... She needs to take her time to process what she has been thru....
Her mother is giving her that space.

Unfortunately, the father isn't...
Just last week, he found a family with an extra ticket to the school's graduation ceremony, where her best friend was graduating... He was going to crash the graduation and ambush her. She didn't go.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I am not familiar, at all, with what kind of shared custody or parental rights the OP's husband might have had.
But, at some point, the whole situation and ongoing battle becomes detrimental to the kid.
At some point, I don't think it is all that uncommon for one parent to just step back and try to work within the status-quo.

I'll be honest I'm a bit confused here. Under normal circumstances if a parent steps back and reliquishes some or most major parenting then it's a bit hard to cry foul later on. I think that's what the other poster was speaking in regards to (or at least it seemed that way).

Situations can be very different but your above example seems to be more of an extreme than the norm and that situation should be treated differently. What you are describing, unless the OP doesn't want to post such intimate details, doesn't sound like what the OP has going on. I haven't seen the OP describe her husband's relationship with his daughter as toxic or abusive.

As an aside I feel for the girl you know and her mother as well

 

[Westcoastwild]

The idea that the dad is hands on because you involve his kids in your family occasions and trips just makes me shake my head. If there was a participation reward for parenting, that would get it. Of course you involve the kid in your family stuff. She's family.

There's no way we can know about your specific situation. But I will say that you make it sound like the mother is totally responsible for the kid's development and mindset. Um, no. The kid has two parents.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I will continue to see the very important similarities in these situations.
And, if we are going to judge by the intimate specifics of 'each situation'... then I will question anyone here who is passing judgement on the OP's husband, because, (with good reason), there are ZERO specifics given. That is why I posted my comments above.

Unless I have reason to believe the father has truly and wilfully neglected his daughter (which the examples given, and the conversations that the OP described, do NOT indicate...) I am not going to throw those stones.

Is that even helpful here????

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I will continue to see the very important similarities in these situations.
And, if we are going to judge by the intimate specifics of 'each situation'... then I will question anyone here who is passing judgement on the OP's husbands, because, (with good reason), there are ZERO specifics given. That is why I posted my comments above.

Unless I have reason to believe the father has truly and wilfully neglected his daughter (which the conversations that the OP described do NOT indicate...) I am not going to throw those stones.

Is that even helpful here????

Hey don't look just at me on that one. Many posters have been throwing stones at the step-daughter...and you yourself threw stones at the step-daughter's mother going as far as to allude the bio mom may have a personality disorder.

I don't think any of us are blind to the fact that the bio mom has issues going on but some of us are also wondering about the dad's relationship with the daughter.

I can't help it if you see similarities between the situation you described but I don't have any evidence to support the OP's situation as being as severe as the one you described and thus I can't just give support to your comment about stepping back and going with the status-quo (which is fine that we don't agree). In the situation you describe I see the mom stepping back for the safety and security of her child and if there was no legal recourse it may be the better option out there as much as it pains the mom to have to take a step back it's for her daughter's safety.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I will continue to see the very important similarities in these situations.
And, if we are going to judge by the intimate specifics of 'each situation'... then I will question anyone here who is passing judgement on the OP's husband, because, (with good reason), there are ZERO specifics given. That is why I posted my comments above.

Unless I have reason to believe the father has truly and wilfully neglected his daughter (which the examples given, and the conversations that the OP described, do NOT indicate...) I am not going to throw those stones.

Is that even helpful here????

Well, are we meant to be helpful? Serious question. We're not even talking to the two principal players. The dad and kid will do whatever they want.

You see it that way because of your experience. Others see it the opposite way based on their experience. Me, I could go either way but I don't see any evidence that the kid and dad had a solid relationship beforehand. Sounds like a lot of conflict between her parents at least over her upbringing. She asked for money for her wedding, stepmom and dad refused unless strings were attached, she disinvited them from the wedding. She apparently disinvited her grandparents from the wedding for no apparent reason. That last doesn't seem too likely.

I'm just pointing out I see holes. great, gaping holes. I'm not doubting that the kid is immature or that the marriage is a terrible idea. But. I think there's a whole lot of family stuff playing out in the background.

 

[tinah159]

While I am not going to point any fingers, at all, regarding a parent trying to have a reasonable discussion with their 18-19 year old child about such serious, life-affecting, plans....
And, I will call out anybody who is throwing flames on that one....

Some of the thoughts in the above post do cross my mind.

But, I also know from the personal experience of somebody very close, that these things can be VERY complex....
This girl, the same age as OP's step-daughter, has a father who has done everything in his power to control her... keep her separated from her mother, minimize any influence in her life... isolate her... (no phone) etc...
This man could, and would, stop at NOTHING... We are talking about toxic abusive control.
Any efforts on the mother's part would be met with threats, physical confrontation, endless legal motions, etc....
He kept legal motions to gain sole custody going until all the lawyers and judges in this area just quit even working with him.
Until she was nearly 18 years old. Just unimaginable.

The mother would be the one accused of causing trouble, being an unfit parent for talking negatively about the girls father, etc....
She never felt that she had anybody on her side, any say-so, etc....
Those that wish to gain control and isolation are VERY good at going about what they are doing.
Even if it is in a more quiet and passive--aggressive way. (instead of like this aggressive father)

I am not familiar, at all, with what kind of shared custody or parental rights the OP's husband might have had.
But, at some point, the whole situation and ongoing battle becomes detrimental to the kid.
At some point, I don't think it is all that uncommon for one parent to just step back and try to work within the status-quo.

I do think that I would have done more than this girl's mother... I will admit that.
But, I don't feel like throwing stones unless I have walked a mile in those shoes.

I was VERY scared for the future of this girl.
But, unlike the OP's daughter... we helped open her eyes before she reached her 18th birthday....
Her mother took her on an out of state trip just before her 18th birthday... and all of the pieces fell into place.
This young lady has not spoken to her father for months now, not since her 18th birthday.
Sad... but for the best... She needs to take her time to process what she has been thru....
Her mother is giving her that space.

Unfortunately, the father isn't...
Just last week, he found a family with an extra ticket to the school's graduation ceremony, where her best friend was graduating... He was going to crash the graduation and ambush her. She didn't go.

YES! I did not want to post about the problems the mother has caused. During the divorce the judge mandated that he could only have the children over when he was at home to care for them. He was not allowed to have a competent person watch the kids until he got home from work unless they provided their social security number to the mother. NO person is going to give their SSN to another person. He was not allowed to use daycare. The kids were home schooled by their grandmother following a strict religious curriculum, and they (mother and grandmother) felt any time spent in daycare would negate their wholesome upbringing. He had to work off duty jobs to pay the 1600.00 per month child support. He worked 7 days a week. I am only stating this because of my previous statement about vacations and such. Any free time he had, vacations, family events etc. we made sure his girls were with us. I is a very difficult situation. My husband cant stop the child support as it has been tied up in domestic relations for a year and a half. He is trying to get the judge to order the younger child- 14.5 years old, into public school. She is educated by her grandmother and her reading and math is only reading on a 4th grade level. So, according to the wife's family, we are trying to cause trouble. No, we are trying to help raise educated well rounded kids to adulthood.

 

[tinah159]

I hope this doesn'T come across as mean or offensive, becuase I don't mean it that way---but i htink it might be worth considering how the prior fathering has led up to some of the issues now. I mean, including your kid in vacations and events is sort of a minimal decent thing to do (IMO) but not really hands on parenting.
What did your husband do to help make sure she wasn't overly sheltered, that hse had oppurtunities to make friends her own age at least when she was visiting you and not at her mom's (if mom made that impossible)? How did he advocate for her and help her learn about the world and get real world experiences and gain the maturity she is so clearly lacking?

IMO, a truly hands on parent would have been noticing that and working on it for years if at all possible. If he is now upset that his daughter is too immature to include him on the wedding or understand that it is not reasonable for her and the soon to be husband to survive on a part time Starbucks salary, he needs to llok at if his complacency in allowign her mother and grandmother to shelter her so much and control her is one reason she is in the situation she is in.

I don't think that makes the wedding a good idea, or that it means he should keep up with child support for a married adult, etc (after all she has to learn about the real world sometime)--but maybe if he can look honestly at his role in helping to create the situation he can find ways to better relate to his daughter now and help keep those lines open.

Good luck--I am sure it is tough on you both and can tell you care and he loves her so that must make it very hard to watch what you are sure is a mistake

No offense taken. You can only father as much and the residential parent and the court will allow. See below!

 

[tinah159]

The thing is with young marriages, either they grow together or they grow apart. When DS married at 19, I told him that a lot would change between the ages of 19 and 21. They were either going to grow and mature and want the same things out of life or the opposite would happen. The same will happen for your step-dd. Maybe they really will grow together.

Sounds like she needs to get away from her Mother some but without options that isn't going to happen. It really sounds sad for the dd, to me. Because one day, he could be the one to grow up and realize this isn't what he wants. Then what will she do?

Also, is he on medication for his depression?

Yes he is medicated. He is a sweet, nice young man but is limited in his abilities. He had never used the microwave, washed a dish or mowed the lawn before he moved to our area. He had a full time job at Target last Christmas but it was too fast-paced for him. The part-time job at Starbucks seems to be about all he can handle. On another note, his grandparents are such nice people. They have done the best they can. They are in their 80's and in poor health.

 

[tinah159]

The idea that the dad is hands on because you involve his kids in your family occasions and trips just makes me shake my head. If there was a participation reward for parenting, that would get it. Of course you involve the kid in your family stuff. She's family.

There's no way we can know about your specific situation. But I will say that you make it sound like the mother is totally responsible for the kid's development and mindset. Um, no. The kid has two parents.

I didn't mean to imply that he was hands on just by including the children in vacations and events. There were other things, but, if the residential parent block all attempts for the other parent to have input into important decisions and visitation, then, you have to do as much as you are allowed. Until you can afford a long court battle.