Spanking

[Skywalker]

Oh for Pete sakes. They are not "conditioned". They are happy, successful adults who love their children and have happy well loved and cared for children. I have no idea if they spank their children. I don't go home with them but I know they are beautiful and happy kids. And I see how loving and close the family is.

Give it up, luvsJack! The random internet strangers obviously know more than you do about this family. It's an amazing superpower some must have lol.

 

[luvsJack]

Nope. Other forms other of discipline & not spanking (not swats on the butt) are the WIDELY accepted methods by the entire mental health & child development community of professionals based on empirical data. And it’s best practice for assisting families who seek services for help in getting control of their kids. Most who come in have tried spanking. It’s not that spanking is so harmful, it’s that it’s ineffective for the most part or not necessary.

Do you not think that for those particular out of control kids that perhaps there are reasons that spanking is ineffective?

My younger son is ADHD. Spanking wasn't going to work for him. Period. I know a child who is autistic. He has some out of control behavior but spanking isn't going to help. Or a child with defiance disorder.

There is no one discipline method that is going to work for every kid. Awards don't universally work either and can cause some kids to become way more focused on the award than the desired behavior.

And there is no one punishment that is going to work universally either.

 

[luvsJack]

Give it up, luvsJack! The random internet strangers obviously know more than you do about this family. It's an amazing superpower some must have lol.

Lol so very very true!

 

[LSUmiss]

Do you not think that for those particular out of control kids that perhaps there are reasons that spanking is ineffective?

My younger son is ADHD. Spanking wasn't going to work for him. Period. I know a child who is autistic. He has some out of control behavior but spanking isn't going to help. Or a child with defiance disorder.

There is no one discipline method that is going to work for every kid. Awards don't universally work either and can cause some kids to become way more focused on the award than the desired behavior.

And there is no one punishment that is going to work universally either.

No. I saw those kids too (not autistic) & it wasn’t effective for them either, of course. But for those kids, the usually behavior modification charts didn’t work either.

 

[luvsJack]

No. I saw those kids too (not autistic) & it wasn’t effective for them either, of course. But for those kids, the usually behavior modification charts didn’t work either.

That's odd because I know for a fact that the awards and charts do in fact work for ADHD kids or some anyway.

We used them on DS especially for school. His teachers had to be willing to work closely with us and let us know daily what was going on and show him constantly throughout the day where he was on his behavior but it worked.

 

[LSUmiss]

That's odd because I know for a fact that the awards and charts do in fact work for ADHD kids or some anyway.

We used them on DS especially for school. His teachers had to be willing to work closely with us and let us know daily what was going on and show him constantly throughout the day where he was on his behavior but it worked.

No they work. But you have to have teachers willing to help & unfortunately here I find that rare. Here they want to them medicated. And you still have to be patient at home. What I meant is that they’re a lot more impulsive so traditional methods of using charts. I find he charts have to be more lenient.

 

[Hikergirl]

Reread my post. I was saying those spanked could be better had they not been spanked. DH and I were spanked and we agreed early on that we would have been better off had we not been.



How about the American Psychological Association?
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

Or Scientific American https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-science-says-and-doesn-t-about-spanking/

http://goodparent.org/corporal-puni...ce-favoring-the-use-of-disciplinary-spanking/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170731164027.htm

I could go on and on but if you need more just ask Google. The evidence is clear and it lined up with what DH and I felt about our own upbringings.

If the evidence was clear then researchers wouldn't disagree, which if you read these links you would see they do.
If you want to believe all the research that "proves" your point go ahead, I'm sure there is research out there that can disprove it too. I just don't care enough to look because IMO spanking works for some, it's not illegal and a parent can choose how they see fit to discipline their kids and don't need to see studies to know what works best for their own kids.
I also know that there is plenty of bias in scientific research especially on things such as social or political issues, which was my point in my pp. But still, thanks for taking the time to find some links.

 

[jiminyC_fan]

Agreed!
The worst argument ever is, "I was spanked and I turned out fine." But did you really? How much better would you be if you had been taught appropriate behavior rather than assaulted by those bigger and more powerful than you?

Bottom line...Science is science whether you believe it or not AND according to science, spanking is a no.

I admitted earlier in the thread that I was a victim of child abuse, physically, verbally, emotionally. Heck, I went to my first day in Junior High with a fat lip and a black and blue eye. My adult life is perfect. I have been married for 43 years (never divorced), have 2 successful daughters, 4 grandchildren, never saw a therapist, never took an antidepressant, don't drink and retired at an early age. Not sure my child abuse could have changed where I am today.

 

[LSUmiss]

If the evidence was clear then researchers wouldn't disagree, which if you read these links you would see they do.
If you want to believe all the research that "proves" your point go ahead, I'm sure there is research out there that can disprove it too. I just don't care enough to look because IMO spanking works for some, it's not illegal and a parent can choose how they see fit to discipline their kids and don't need to see studies to know what works best for their own kids.
I also know that there is plenty of bias in scientific research especially on things such as social or political issues, which was my point in my pp. But still, thanks for taking the time to find some links.

Good point. It’s not illegal. But, maybe as we a society we progress more one it will be illegal. Lots of things used to not be illegal that we later learned as a society were wrong so...

 

[DisneylandDarling]

That’s a great point! This is just one of those subjects that I just can’t understand how ppl rationalize things. I feel like I’ve tried to understand the other side, but I just can’t.

The issue I don’t think anyone is really arguing that a swat on the butt is a big deal. But there are ppl condoning “whippings” with a belt or othe item. That’s what many of of us can’t on board with.

But that's not what is being discussed here. The vast majority of posters are not condoning using a belt or paddle or beating their child. Pretty sure the OP was not about a mother using a paddle to whip her child in line. OP never said the mother took off her belt and started whipping away. People took the original post and are arguing against something that was never originally posted or argued in order to make the "other side" out to be the villains (strawman).

Most are talking about one or two swats on the bum, which sounds like what was displayed in line at WDW in the OP. I'm (and many others according to replies) okay with this, not using a belt and not using a paddle. Being okay with a couple swats on the bum isn't rationalizing child abuse.

 

[Dentam]

A quick pat on the butt seems fine to me but I never understood the “execution” style whippings were the dad would come home from work and pull out the belt or paddle and “discipline” the child for something they did hours earlier....I guess it “worked” for some but, I’m not a fan and always found it creepy

It puts a lot of fear and dread into a child, that's for sure.

 

[robinb]

People took the original post and are arguing against something that was never originally posted or argued in order to make the "other side" out to be the villains (strawman).

Actually, the conversation about whipping a child was brought up first as an example of how spanking doesn't hurt the child in the long run because the poster knew of kids who were whipped by their mother who turned out to be wonderful adults.

 

[sam_gordon]

DH and I were spanked and we agreed early on that we would have been better off had we not been.

I'll ask again... how would you have been better off if you hadn't been spanked?

Most are talking about one or two swats on the bum, which sounds like what was displayed in line at WDW in the OP. I'm (and many others according to replies) okay with this, not using a belt and not using a paddle. Being okay with a couple swats on the bum isn't rationalizing child abuse.

Actually, there was no spanking witnessed by the OP or mentioned in the OP. He THOUGHT it might lead to that.

 

[luvsJack]

No they work. But you have to have teachers willing to help & unfortunately here I find that rare. Here they want to them medicated. And you still have to be patient at home. What I meant is that they’re a lot more impulsive so traditional methods of using charts. I find he charts have to be more lenient.

Ahhh. I see. Yeah the teachers willing to do the extra work are worth their weight in gold! I found a lot of the wanting meds for the kid like they were miracle drugs. DS did take the meds but the rest was necessary too.

 

[luvsJack]

Actually, the conversation about whipping a child was brought up first as an example of how spanking doesn't hurt the child in the long run because the poster knew of kids who were whipped by their mother who turned out to be wonderful adults.

That is not even what I said. I said that she spanked with a belt. I said I would not do the same thing. I said seeing the results of her parenting keeps me from choosing to judge her.

I used the family as an example that you cannot decide how a kid is going to turn out by your opinion of how they are disciplined or punished and that you cannot assume that what you think you witness is the only method the parent uses.

 

[jiminyC_fan]

I'll ask again... how would you have been better off if you hadn't been spanked?

I would love to have an answer as well. My case was extreme but even I don't look back and say " I would have been better off".

 

[luvsJack]

I admitted earlier in the thread that I was a victim of child abuse, physically, verbally, emotionally. Heck, I went to my first day in Junior High with a fat lip and a black and blue eye. My adult life is perfect. I have been married for 43 years (never divorced), have 2 successful daughters, 4 grandchildren, never saw a therapist, never took an antidepressant, don't drink and retired at an early age. Not sure my child abuse could have changed where I am today.

You have a lot to be proud of knowing the childhood it sounds like you endured.

This truly was abuse and I am so sorry that you went through that. But it sounds like you overcame it all.

 

[jiminyC_fan]

You have a lot to be proud of knowing the childhood it sounds like you endured.

This truly was abuse and I am so sorry that you went through that. But it sounds like you overcame it all.

Bless your heart. I thank you. I am what I am because of it. I truly am happy with my life from beginning to now. I've been meaning to apologize to you for the wrath you are receiving here. I'm sorry your words get twisted.

 

[LSUmiss]

Bless your heart. I thank you. I am what I am because of it. I truly am happy with my life from beginning to now. I've been meaning to apologize to you for the wrath you are receiving here. I'm sorry your words get twisted.

Do you think maybe the poster meant “better off” in that your life would have been better & easier at least in childhood? I didn’t post it so I don’t know what he/she meant. Although it sounds like you overcame things & you said it shaped who you are, I’m sure you would agree that other children should not have endure that even though you were able to overcome it. Maybe that’s what’s meant by better? And I think that’s where I have a problem with it all. What you endured sounds extreme so it’s more obviously abuse, but the severity of corporal punishment can be subjective. So what someone thinks is extreme other ppl think are ok & necessary. We saw that just in this thread. I have seen many parents justify some pretty harsh things in my experience. Things that don’t quite meet the level of the abuse you endured but that were reportable to child protection. In most cases, these parents really thought what they were doing was ok & many made remarks like “nothing else works with him” and/or “it’s my child...it’s no one else’s business”. Most of them were not accidents b/c they lost their temper. For most, it was their form of discipline. I’m not talking about a swat on the butt. Child protection’s bench mark for the most part is did it leave evident marks. Some of the things I’ve heard on this thread could leave marks & would be reportable to child protection & considered child abuse no matter what anyone’s personal opinion is of it.

 

[LSUmiss]

For those that dismiss the experts & refer to them as “experts” as if they aren’t really, do you do that for other aspects of life? Do you think things like “those expert engineers claim the bridge is structurally sound” or that “expert MD says I have x condition”? Maybe that’s just your personality. But, if not, how is this different? Personally, I generally don't dismiss ppl who spend yrs in school, who have passed multiple licensing exams, who spent yrs in practice & who are required to complete hours of continuing education annually. There are hundreds of thousands in these fields world wide who have done/do just that & they largely agree on this subject. I think that’s a little arrogant.