Southwest adds charge to board sooner

[Hannathy]

Because GENERALITIES are wrong and to compare a bus to a plane is like comparing apples to oranges. My well adjusted, well traveled 12 year old does fine in a car or bus but a plane is a whole different scenario. Just like we should not assume that MOST 12 year olds are fine, I shouldnt assume that you are a healthy individual or lazy etc bc you do not want to give up your aisle seat. Maybe you have some underlying issue well so might that 12 year old. DONT ASSUME! I alway read on the DIS of people making assumptions about people on scooters are lazy when in reality they probably have a underlying issue. So no one should assume that a child of any age is ok sitting without their parent just bc they sit on a bus.


I said that I will either pay or pick a different airline. Just disappointed with SW. I dont expect anyone to acoomdate me or my child. That is my job! My issue was you comparing a bus to a plane. It is not a comparable mode of transportation for some people. I dont care what their age!

You totally missed the point. I was not comparing a bus to a plane. I said in a discussion you had to speak in generalities you can not address every single exception so yes in a broad case discussion there are assumptions made. In General across the spectrum most children of school age can tend to their own immediate needs on an airplane and do not need a parent next to them. will there be exceptions yes but when looking at the whole picture the answer is no.

 

[bavaria]

Which is why I stated that I am disappointed. We have enjoyed flying SW but now may have to consider other options. BC EB does not assure anything it appears. If I choose SW in the future I will pay the fee.

And I agree with you - it stinks that they changed the game after you bought a ticket. You bought a ticket knowing the SW boarding process, and now that has fundamentally changed, and changed for the worse for most. I may not have said it on this thread, but I did on the other thread - I really understand how frustrating that must be, and I can see many people who were loyal to SW now leaving for other carriers.

What does concern me is that SW obviously felt the need to gain revenue by implementing this fee now, and not during their next round of flight schedule releases. They have also cut more routes and flights. SW for a long time enjoyed the benefits of fuel hedging, but so many things have changed in the last two or three years, and SW like every other carrier in America is struggling and will struggle.

This 'enhancement' is optional, but many travellers are considering it mandatory for them to continue to travel on SW. On the Transportation Board the majority seem to be paying the fee.

 

[Mkrop]

You totally missed the point. I was not comparing a bus to a plane. I said in a discussion you had to speak in generalities you can not address every single exception so yes in a broad case discussion there are assumptions made. In General across the spectrum most children of school age can tend to their own immediate needs on an airplane and do not need a parent next to them. will there be exceptions yes but when looking at the whole picture the answer is no.

Someone else was doing the bus to plane comparsion not you!

And in general I can make a lot of assumptions about many adults, that they are perfectly healthy and could give up their aisle seat. And ya know what I would be dead wrong. That perfectly healthy looking adult may have other issues. If people dont want assumptions made about adults then assumptions should not be made about kids either. You just never know.

I was getting the impression from some posts here that I shouldnt assume why someone would not want to move their seat well I dont think someone should assume why a kid may need/want to sit next to a parent just bc of some age you deem appropriate.

And I agree with you - it stinks that they changed the game after you bought a ticket. You bought a ticket knowing the SW boarding process, and now that has fundamentally changed, and changed for the worse for most. I may not have said it on this thread, but I did on the other thread - I really understand how frustrating that must be, and I can see many people who were loyal to SW now leaving for other carriers.

What does concern me is that SW obviously felt the need to gain revenue by implementing this fee now, and not during their next round of flight schedule releases. They have also cut more routes and flights. SW for a long time enjoyed the benefits of fuel hedging, but so many things have changed in the last two or three years, and SW like every other carrier in America is struggling and will struggle.

This 'enhancement' is optional, but many travellers are considering it mandatory for them to continue to travel on SW. On the Transportation Board the majority seem to be paying the fee.

Hey bavaria good to see you!

Just for the record I DO NOT have a seat purchased at this time. DBro did and knew nothing of the change. We are looking for Jan travel. We LOVE SW and out of Philly hate USAir. But when I mentioned this change to DH yesterday, it definitely gave us cause for concern and made us rethink WHO we may book with in the future. (bc of DS12's issues and DS6) So here SW had loyal customers who raved to the high heavens about them now reconsidering bc of this new policy. It stinks!


For the others I am not one of the ones refusing to pay the fee, if this policy is in place when we get to booking arifare again bc of my concerns for my kids, I will either pay (although as another has posted does that guarantee anything!) or look for another airline (although out of Philly our choices are bleak)

 

[bavaria]

And in general I can make a lot of assumptions about many adults, that they are perfectly healthy and could give up their aisle seat. And ya know what I would be dead wrong. That perfectly healthy looking adult may have other issues. If people dont want assumptions made about adults then assumptions should not be made about kids either. You just never know.

I remember a thread here from an adult who was petrified to fly. She was coerced or forced to move on her flight away from her sister to sitting alone in the back of the airplane, and was pretty much hysterical about the whole experience.

I'm quite sure that she most likely looked a pretty healthy young adult and was probably singled out for that. She either didn't know that she could refuse, or felt that she had to move, and the flight ended up being a disaster for her to the point that she didn't want to fly again in future.

There are a lot of 'issues' in the world, and we don't know what burden another person is carrying with them that day. They have a right to say no, and we should all respect that right.

 

[bavaria]

The flip side is how British Airways revised their seating assignment policy last year to only preassigning seats to certain passengers

Prebooking of seats will be limited to certain groups of travelers:

• Families with young children (2-11)
• Passengers with infants (under 2)
• Premier, Gold and Silver card holders
• Corporate dealt customers
• FIRST customers
• Customers holding fully flexible tickets (J, W or Y class)
• Large specialized groups, e.g., school trips

This means that non-status adults or parents with teens don't get a seat assignment until the very end, and you can imagine which seats those are.

BA lost a lot of customers with this move - mostly adults or couples because of the policy which discriminated against them and used them as 'fillers' for the empty (middle) seats.

I won't be flying BA anymore if possible, nor will many adults I know.

 

[LWatson]

The thing that gets me is that they are willing to let everyone pay that fee. If everyone pays that fee then you are back a square one. I think they should limit the number purchased to maybe like 50. Not to mention what I can see happening is a lot of people pay this fee, and they extend back into B. But, between A&B is family boarding. Families of young kids probably wont pay this (we arent the first flight simply because we still have young kids and can use family boarding, but if its a problem we will on return). So, you have people who didn't pay the fee boarding before people who did pay the fee because they have kids under 4. I can see someone who doesnt have young kids get upset because they arent really the 75th person to board like their boarding pass states (again not us, but I can see someone getting really upset over this) ex...B15. I guess maybe I'm over analizing this, but I think that someone could get way upset over this and becoming a jerk.

I think a lot of people are upset because Southwest didn't notify them. I personally think that an email or letter in the mail or even a phone call to people who have already purchased a ticket that would be affected by this would have been nice. Yes, there are a lot of people to notify, but you wouldn't have people blindsided either. Imagine not knowing about this and getting up at 0600 to check in for your 0600 flight the next day and you get a C boarding card. I can imagine people would be highly upset over that.

My friend is flying the day before we are and she is taking out the same flight we will be doing the next day (both of us going to Disney), so she is going to let me know about her experience w/ her boarding pass. That should also help DH & I decide how we want to proceed w/ ours (since she will know 48hrs b4 we actually fly and 24hrs b4 we can checkin).

 

[Mkrop]

I remember a thread here from an adult who was petrified to fly. She was coerced or forced to move on her flight away from her sister to sitting alone in the back of the airplane, and was pretty much hysterical about the whole experience.

I'm quite sure that she most likely looked a pretty healthy young adult and was probably singled out for that. She either didn't know that she could refuse, or felt that she had to move, and the flight ended up being a disaster for her to the point that she didn't want to fly again in future.

There are a lot of 'issues' in the world, and we don't know what burden another person is carrying with them that day. They have a right to say no, and we should all respect that right.

 

[DisNae]

See this is what gets me about the whole policy. They implemented the change effective immediately. So those of us who purchased tickets under the old policy, when we could have likely gotten seats with our children no problem, now have to deal with the new policy. We don't HAVE the choice to select another airline that lets us choose our seats, because we already bought tickets. I think that reeks.

Also, even paying the fee doesn't *guarantee* me the spot I might need in order to sit with my kids. That's what's really messed up about the policy--the fee guarantees nothing, especially if a lot of people on the flight choose to pay it.

Last time we went to WDW we flew AirTran, and yes, I paid the seat selection fee so that I could choose my seats and ensure my whole family got to sit next to each other. But, I bought SW this time, thinking I could check-in 24 hours in advance and get the passes I need to ensure that my DH and 7-year old can sit together (as I and my 3-year-old can board between A and B and will almost definitely be able to sit together). But now who knows what will happen with DH and my 7-year-old, since a 24-hour check in could very well put them in a C category with the new rules. Had this been the case, I would not have purchased SW tickets. I would have chosen AirTran, so I could choose my seats. Again, I am not keen on paying the $10 fee for older DD and DH because it guarantees nothing. I'd be upset if I paid the fee and still got placed in a low enough category that they ended up separated, as that would defeat the whole purpose. At least with AirTran, when you pay for your assignment, you are getting an actual, guaranteed *seat number*, not just a boarding group.

On the other hand, I am trying to take a deep breath and not be so over-protective of my 7-year-old. In all likelihood she will be just fine sitting alone for a 2 1/2 hour flight if it comes to that. But it's hard for us mommas to let go. I worry that she'll be nervous or scared by herself.

 

[bstnsprts]

See this is what gets me about the whole policy. They implemented the change effective immediately. So those of us who purchased tickets under the old policy, when we could have likely gotten seats with our children no problem, now have to deal with the new policy. We don't HAVE the choice to select another airline that lets us choose our seats, because we already bought tickets. I think that reeks.

Your 100% right. Yours and others, including myself, are in a situation caused by SW that reeks. I hope that everyone that had tickets purchased already has contacted SW and let their feelings known. You are taking the high road on this. Your planning what your options are and what possible results are. Your preparing for the fact that you and your daughter might be separated. Others though have posted that they will just get on the plane and expect, demand, that others move for them. That is what the problem is.

 

[Tinkermom76]

IMO I hope all the people that think that I don’t have a right to sit with my children on a flight end up on my next flight to Orlando because on my last trip one DD had the flu and threw up the whole way there and on my way back the other had the flu and threw up the whole way back. Maybe it will be nice to sit a few rows away and let them hold the air sick bags and get puke on their clothes. If you are a single person on a flight and there is an emergency are you gonna rush to put your oxygen mask on then hurry to help my child or should I forgo my oxygen and run up a “few rows” to put on my childs mask. Parents sitting with their children is a safety thing and a comfort thing for the kids.
All of the people on here doing the most complaining are also the ones who will complain about a child crying or making noise on a plane but they would never move so the mom could sit with and comfort their child.
What if I pay the fee and everyone on my flight decides to pay the fee then am I still not entitled to sit with my kids? If we both paid the extra fee then would you give up your seat so I could sit with my kids
By the way my kids are 5&7 and neither of them will be very happy if they have to be away from me in a strange place. And to those of you saying us moms just are mad cause we can’t get what we want let me tell you what I want is a trip to WDW without my kids and I wouldn’t care where I sat on the plane and would give up my seat, but that’s not gonna happen. It’s not about what I want it’s about safety and security and I work in the emergency management field and I can tell you for sure that if the oxygen masks fell no stranger would rush to take care of my child.

 

[bavaria]

IMO I hope all the people that think that I don’t have a right to sit with my children on a flight end up on my next flight to Orlando because on my last trip one DD had the flu and threw up the whole way there and on my way back the other had the flu and threw up the whole way back. Maybe it will be nice to sit a few rows away and let them hold the air sick bags and get puke on their clothes. If you are a single person on a flight and there is an emergency are you gonna rush to put your oxygen mask on then hurry to help my child or should I forgo my oxygen and run up a “few rows” to put on my childs mask. Parents sitting with their children is a safety thing and a comfort thing for the kids.
All of the people on here doing the most complaining are also the ones who will complain about a child crying or making noise on a plane but they would never move so the mom could sit with and comfort their child.
What if I pay the fee and everyone on my flight decides to pay the fee then am I still not entitled to sit with my kids? If we both paid the extra fee then would you give up your seat so I could sit with my kids
By the way my kids are 5&7 and neither of them will be very happy if they have to be away from me in a strange place. And to those of you saying us moms just are mad cause we can’t get what we want let me tell you what I want is a trip to WDW without my kids and I wouldn’t care where I sat on the plane and would give up my seat, but that’s not gonna happen. It’s not about what I want it’s about safety and security and I work in the emergency management field and I can tell you for sure that if the oxygen masks fell no stranger would rush to take care of my child.

It is threats like this that so many of us find distasteful. Instead of being threatening us, why not try be diplomatic and negotiate and request rather than demand?

Have you been on a flight with an aborted landing? aborted takeoff? potential fire on board? fire in the airport terminal? terrorism on the ground? I have, and more. Don't make assumptions about how people react in those situations. I have seen people behave in extraordinary ways, including children who stayed calm and obeyed instructions when adults did not. Remember, children have a lot of instruction in school about how to line up, follow directions, and listen. Adults often forget and panic.

Every day thousands of unaccompanies minors fly around the world. Who do you think looks after those children in an emergency? You don't seem to have much faith in mankind.

Whenever I fly in the days following a natural or man-made disaster I am again reminded of how resilient and adaptable people are, and how often it is those who have so little give the most. People are bickering and arguing here about how they should be winning the game of 'my problems are bigger than your problems'. That is a game I hope never to win and to those of you who seem to want to win it, go right ahead.

 

[Hannathy]

It is threats like this that so many of us find distasteful. Instead of being threatening us, why not try be diplomatic and negotiate and request rather than demand?

Have you been on a flight with an aborted landing? aborted takeoff? potential fire on board? fire in the airport terminal? terrorism on the ground? I have, and more. Don't make assumptions about how people react in those situations. I have seen people behave in extraordinary ways, including children who stayed calm and obeyed instructions when adults did not. Remember, children have a lot of instruction in school about how to line up, follow directions, and listen. Adults often forget and panic.

Every day thousands of unaccompanies minors fly around the world. Who do you think looks after those children in an emergency? You don't seem to have much faith in mankind.

Whenever I fly in the days following a natural or man-made disaster I am again reminded of how resilient and adaptable people are, and how often it is those who have so little give the most. People are bickering and arguing here about how they should be winning the game of 'my problems are bigger than your problems'. That is a game I hope never to win and to those of you who seem to want to win it, go right ahead.

Thank you and I agree. You said it much more eloquently and succinctly than I could

 

[crashbb]

It is threats like this that so many of us find distasteful. Instead of being threatening us, why not try be diplomatic and negotiate and request rather than demand?

Have you been on a flight with an aborted landing? aborted takeoff? potential fire on board? fire in the airport terminal? terrorism on the ground? I have, and more. Don't make assumptions about how people react in those situations. I have seen people behave in extraordinary ways, including children who stayed calm and obeyed instructions when adults did not. Remember, children have a lot of instruction in school about how to line up, follow directions, and listen. Adults often forget and panic.

Every day thousands of unaccompanies minors fly around the world. Who do you think looks after those children in an emergency? You don't seem to have much faith in mankind.

Whenever I fly in the days following a natural or man-made disaster I am again reminded of how resilient and adaptable people are, and how often it is those who have so little give the most. People are bickering and arguing here about how they should be winning the game of 'my problems are bigger than your problems'. That is a game I hope never to win and to those of you who seem to want to win it, go right ahead.

Further, a child that sick with the flu should not have been flying - whether sitting next to a parent or not.

 

[PlutoPony]

IMO I hope all the people that think that I don’t have a right to sit with my children on a flight ......

NO - that is not what is being said at all.

It's really really simple..... If you or anyone else has a NEED TO SIT BESIDE SOMEONE - be it your 4 year old, an elderly parent, or someone else - it is your responsibility to take whatever steps you can to assure your needs are met. On AirTran that likely means paying for assigned seats, and on SW it now means paying for EB or taking a chance and checking in right at 24 hours.

If you don't take these steps (or steps like this) you have no one to blame but yourself - please don't attempt to force / guilt others into making accommodations for you. You and your family are probably not the only fliers on the plane who have specific seating needs. To assume otherwise is unfair and unrealistic.

Now if you do everything you can (i.e. pay the EB, etc.) and your needs aren't met, that's another story entirely..... Let's save that for another thread

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I don't understand why you think your needs are more important and that others need to accomodate you? Why impose your issues on others? It's the "All about me" entitlement that is the problem How about you just deal with the situation?

IMO I hope all the people that think that I don’t have a right to sit with my children on a flight end up on my next flight to Orlando because on my last trip one DD had the flu and threw up the whole way there and on my way back the other had the flu and threw up the whole way back. Maybe it will be nice to sit a few rows away and let them hold the air sick bags and get puke on their clothes. If you are a single person on a flight and there is an emergency are you gonna rush to put your oxygen mask on then hurry to help my child or should I forgo my oxygen and run up a “few rows” to put on my childs mask. Parents sitting with their children is a safety thing and a comfort thing for the kids.
All of the people on here doing the most complaining are also the ones who will complain about a child crying or making noise on a plane but they would never move so the mom could sit with and comfort their child.
What if I pay the fee and everyone on my flight decides to pay the fee then am I still not entitled to sit with my kids? If we both paid the extra fee then would you give up your seat so I could sit with my kids
By the way my kids are 5&7 and neither of them will be very happy if they have to be away from me in a strange place. And to those of you saying us moms just are mad cause we can’t get what we want let me tell you what I want is a trip to WDW without my kids and I wouldn’t care where I sat on the plane and would give up my seat, but that’s not gonna happen. It’s not about what I want it’s about safety and security and I work in the emergency management field and I can tell you for sure that if the oxygen masks fell no stranger would rush to take care of my child.

 

[a1tinkfans]

They cannot allow young children to sit without a parent, so I wouldn't worry to much about it. This happened to me on a Southwest flight about 2 years ago when my dd was 5. We were traveling alone and there were not 2 seats together. No one was offering up a seat, so I found the first open one, sat my dd down and loudly annouced (in a lighthearted tone)..well Gianna you will be sitting here with these two strangers, let them know what movie you want, that you like apple juice and remember to let them know when you need to go to the bathroom. I will be way in the back of the plane where the next available seat is. Hope you ALL have a good flight ;-) You have never seen so many people offer up their seats NOT to have to sit with the 5 year old!

Too Funny, but SO true!!!

 

[a1tinkfans]

So, I wonder if they'll make people with a disability pre-board pay the fee?

Interesting.............
Well that would be a serious bone of contention to anyone that has used the pre board due to a disability. To me it almost sounds discriminatory. Because you are disabled.... you are charged More, Don't think it'll fly(no pun intended). With the ADA and the civil rights people out there, don't think that has a prayer of working! This is simply revenue making for SW (profits are down) and alienating the disabled meaning they'd go elsewhere, is not what they're after for sure!

The $10. fee is to board before the A's but not before the business people. And actually first unaccompanied children go first, then Pre-Boards board before Everyone else, first wheelchairs then walk on pre-boards, Then Business Select and then A's and then families and then b and then c....

Maggiesmom: I think you mentioned Airtran as a choice...seriously look into that airline. So many horror stories of flight changes, time changes, routes discontinued, and many times with NO notice to the paying customer. Wouldn't fly them if they paid me. Some have had good things to say, but many more have said not so good things....take a look right here on the boards before considering them for a vacation flight!

 

[JLTraveling]

Wow. I've just finished reading this entire thread, and I can't believe how quickly people turn on each other!

This policy doesn't affect me in the slightest, since I normally fly with my disabled father, so we get preboarding anyway. I don't have kids, so on any flight without Dad, I could care less who I sit with.

So I'm not on either side. But it seems to me that the whole thing has degenerated into a giant argument about "rights," "needs," and "entitlement." Whose needs matter more? Who should give up a seat for whom, and under what circumstances?

The issue here isn't other passengers at all. The issue is Southwest, and the imposition of a completely unexpected fee that is going to change how most people plan for Southwest flights. IMO, it was completely wrong of Southwest, on the back of tons of advertising about being the "no fee" airline, to suddenly announce this change, effective immediately, even for people who have already purchased tickets. It doesn't sound like the company has thought through the possible implications AT ALL, or realized what a PR nightmare this could become.

The problem is, everybody's right. The people who pay the fee certainly have the right to board the plane and choose the seats they like. Families with kids certainly have the right to sit together. Families without kids certainly have the right to sit together. People with disabilities, healthy 20-something honeymooners, singles who prefer a window or an aisle...wasn't Southwest's whole marketing campaign hinged on "the best way to like where you sit is to sit where you like?" Of course everyone had to take their chances at the 24-hour mark, but that was the luck of the draw. It was fair to everyone's needs.

So...instead of becoming territorial and self-centered and protective of our "rights," and turning on each other, wouldn't we all be better served by speaking up and creating that PR nightmare? Turn the anger towards the company that's actually at fault, and call, write letters, make public statements...make people aware of the change and the possible implications it might have. It's certainly more productive than taking it out on each other!!

 

[bavaria]

Interesting.............
Well that would be a serious bone of contention to anyone that has used the pre board due to a disability. To me it almost sounds discriminatory. Because you are disabled.... you are charged More, Don't think it'll fly(no pun intended). With the ADA and the civil rights people out there, don't think that has a prayer of working!

I seriously doubt that SW would ever implement a charge for preboarding due to disability. RyanAir did charge for wheelchair users, and they were certainly told to put an end to that. (They used to charge those in a wheelchair 25 Euros to board, now they charge every passenger a 50 cent fee on every ticket to 'cover the cost' of those in a wheelchair. This is just one of many reasons why I refuse to give my business to this company) I do however worry that SW will suddenly see a lot more people demanding blue sleeve boarding, and from what I understand about your laws they may not be able to ask for any proof (much like WDW and a GAC)

What does bother me about this whole thing is that I don't see a lot of empathy or compassion or concern for others - just a lot of finger pointing and dramatics. Nobody is wrenching children away from parents, but people are explaining how to handle potential situations, and are explaining why certain behaviours will not have the intended outcome.

I understand that parents are upset about what this may mean for them, but I think that at least a few posters are not listening to the suggestions and positive input, but are instead just trying to prove why their situation takes precedence over everyone else. Maybe if I saw some compassion or empathy, I would feel differently.

We all understand that your children are the most important thing to you. We don't want to see you separated. But we are asking you to consider that others have needs too, and to think about that before just blaming and judging people and calling them names.

 

[Tinkermom76]

My child got the flu the day we left and the other one got it in Florida I am a single mom who saves very hard to take my kids away and could not afford to lose the money. I do plan and do everything that I can to make sure my children and I will sit together especially since it's just me and them but what I am saying is if we all pay the EB fee then am I still not entitled to sit with my kids. And yes I have been on problematic flights and if I was not near my children I would have freaked because they are MY resposibility and I would want to make sure they are taken care of, no one else will take care of my kids the way I will and if you didn't notice I work in Emergency Management so I see how people react Every Day in fact I plan for it.
You do not know me I am actually a very nice person who will go out of my way to help anyone with anything and I would not walk on the plane and demand people move for me I would ask very politely and hopefully someone would be willing to move and no I would no berate someone for not moving.I though if I wasn't travelling with my kids and it was just adults or even my teen would move so a parent could sit with a child. I think SW needs to rethink this policy especially since we are talking about an Orlando flight which will be mostly families who will want to sit together. A lot of people complain way too much about kids when it comes to Disney discussions.