Sort of budget related...a vent

[robinb]

Oh, we're doing that, too. The difference is I don't have to ask anyone to pick up the difference.

Well, goody for you. And goody for us because we do too. However, I can't sit here in my nice house and make judgments about people who are so poor that $200 measly dollars spent once a year creates a cash flow problem where they have to ask for help. It cannot be easy for them.

OP, if you're still reading and are really bothered by the purse and the boots you need to talk to your friend. Don't let it fester.

 

[DISdreamin']

snip... However, I can't sit here in my nice house and make judgments about people who are so poor that $200 measly dollars spent once a year creates a cash flow problem where they have to ask for help. It cannot be easy for them.

OP, if you're still reading and are really bothered by the purse and the boots you need to talk to your friend. Don't let it fester.

I think what bouncing this off everyone has shown me is that it can't be fun to walk a mile in her shoes....and that I need to get over it and let it go. I need to be thankful for what I have and grateful that I am in a position to help when they need it.

No, I can't change her or solve their problems, but here and there I can make things a little easier for her. Maybe is it enabling, and if the splurges were an everyday occurrance - or even a more frequent one - it would STOP immediately. But when I think about living the way she does...well, me, I'd work to get out of that situation because frankly I couldn't take it. I have lost sleep before over unpaid bills and debt, and my goal is to never let that happen again. So walking a mile in her shoes would be pure torture for me - and it probably is for her too. If a rare treat makes her happy, who am I to judge right?

 

[Shanan]

OP - I have a sister that had a habit of not managing money correctly and would 'borrow' money to make it till DH got paid. She was stay at home mom. One day sis was talking with me about trying to make ends meet while wearing new outfit that she had bought. I was ready for her. I pulled out Dave Ramsey book that I had bought at used book store & gave it to her. I told her that I love you, but I cannot fix your budget shortages. I can give you the best book to read and I only want what is best for you. It was a little cool between us but sis did read the book. Man!!! She became a Dave Ramsey convert; she got a part-time job; no new clothes; no vacations on cc; no eating out..... Sis & bil now have 11 months EF and she worries that I don't have enough money in savings.

A few months ago she told me thank you for opening her eyes to what she & bil were doing to themselves and their relationships to others. I was so very glad to hear that.

 

[badblackpug]

I think what bouncing this off everyone has shown me is that it can't be fun to walk a mile in her shoes....and that I need to get over it and let it go. I need to be thankful for what I have and grateful that I am in a position to help when they need it.

No, I can't change her or solve their problems, but here and there I can make things a little easier for her. Maybe is it enabling, and if the splurges were an everyday occurrance - or even a more frequent one - it would STOP immediately. But when I think about living the way she does...well, me, I'd work to get out of that situation because frankly I couldn't take it. I have lost sleep before over unpaid bills and debt, and my goal is to never let that happen again. So walking a mile in her shoes would be pure torture for me - and it probably is for her too. If a rare treat makes her happy, who am I to judge right?

But, unfortunately, it does bother you, that's what started this thread, and that can't be good for your friendship. I agree, I absolutely would not want to live that way, and like you I would do something about it. I guess I would have more sympathy for someone who was at least trying to rectify the situation. Truthfully, if I thought that were the case, I would give her the money. I am just of the opinion that once you have children your responsibility and obligation goes to them first. That purse and those boots are at least $400 dollars worth of food taken from her kids mouth. Again, I would not end a friendship over it. I would not lecture her on her finances, or responsibility, I simply would not lend her any more money.

 

[taymorel]

I totally understand your frustration and this is something I would mention to her (especially if she was a good friend) because it bothers you and can affect your future friendship.

Personally, I would feel bad when I have ever had to borrow money and have paid it back as soon as I could. But, I would be too embarassed to tell someone I went out shopping when I owed them $ (but that is just me).



caroline

 

[kelleyrn2000]

OP, I really don't know much about aid in your state. In my state, IL, your friend would qualify for the LINK card for groceries. My mother is single, and the state allows her $300 per month for groceries! I can't believe your friend who may not be able to buy milk for her kids, would not qualify for a similar program. And if she indeed qualifies, why would she not use it, if it means feeding her kids ? And if she is too proud, and her kids are in school, why would she not take a part-time job? It doesn't make sense to me, but I will admit I don't know her and have not walked in her shoes. It just seems strange.

I have three kids so I know they can get sick. Doesn't mean you can't have a job. Even working one day a week would help out with bills

 

[Hannathy]

OK here is my opinion and it isn't going to be liked by some on this thread but here goes anyway. Your friend lives like this because she likes it, If she truly didn't she would do something about it. Notice how she refuses all the offers you have suggested that would really help? Not working with kids that old. Also don't be surprised if you aren't the only friend that loans money after hearing the same story and thinks they are the only one helping. I may be wrong and hope I am but I have seen it before.

I'm sorry but when you are as bad off as she claims you don't treat yourself to a coach purse and real Uggs, sorry you just don't. Now if she had splurged on a Starbucks mocha or box of candy I could see it but not something that costs in the hundreds.

 

[goodeats]

If they're getting a big tax refund they should change their witholdings so they get more in every paycheck. That way they won't splurge on stupid stuff.

Maybe remind them of it next time they ask for money.

 

[cheshireqt]

OP - it is really interesting that she is able to pay you back. That is a great plus and speaks very well of your friend. Many in your situation do not get paid back by relatives or friends who borrow. However...and you knew there was a but coming right? ...there may come a time when your friend is not able to pay you back, is that going to be okay with you?
IMHO I do not see why you, your friend, or anyone else believes it is proper for you to continuously entangle yourself financially with another household? You have your family and household and she has hers. What would Susan Orman or Dave Ramsey say about that!
Being concerned about someone and giving (not loaning) with a charitable heart, especially when they tell you they are in need, is absolutely the right thing to do, i.e., gifts of milk, bread etc. By charitable I mean giving in a loving way with a loving heart b/c it is the right thing to do, I do not mean charitable in a negative connotation at all.
So the answer is NO you are not petty, you are rethinking the situation and realizing that being someone else's piggy bank is not working for you. You are concerned for your friend and her family and perhaps feel responsible for their well-being. That means that you are a caring person who loves deeply and strives to do the right thing. If you do decide to keep giving her $ you need to be prepared that at some point you may not see those $ again, not b/c your friend is not honorable, but b/c her situation might get to the point where she in unable to do so.
So to sum up the bottom line, if it were me (and I know it is not and there is probably more to the story)...I would rethink the loaning of $ vs giving what I can give when I know she is in need.
Glad you felt safe venting to your Dis friends and hope you are able to find the advice that works best for you within all the varying answers from posters, even if it is not in line with my post or what I would do!

 

[friskykitten]

If they're getting a big tax refund they should change their witholdings so they get more in every paycheck. That way they won't splurge on stupid stuff.

Maybe remind them of it next time they ask for money.

This may or may not work for them considering that we have no idea what they elected on their W-4 to begin with. Depending on their income, exemptions claimed, qualifying children, etc. they could have absolutely no withholdings taken out of their paycheck and still get a sizeable refund at tax time. If you can claim EIC, Additional Child Tax Credit and/or any other credit that is a direct refund even with no taxable income one can still receive a large tax refund.

 

[blurrycat]

I think those saying offer a Dave Ramsey book are well intentioned, but remember, he has a lot of critics. If he works for you, fine, but a lot of people will see it as about as welcome as having someone give them religious pamphlets, multi-level marketing literature, or political flyers. All of those are right for some- but not necessarily for the person you are attempting to "convert'.

None of us know the person's exact situation, so we really aren't equipped to say how to get out of it.

To the OP, I think you have a well thought out solution that works for you.

 

[Disneyrsh]

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[pjlla]

I can totally understand how you feel. I have a story to share... I'll try to be brief....

Many years ago I had a work friend who got pregnant. She got kicked out of her parents house (she was probably about 24 y/o) and was taken in by a family she found through a pro-life group. She lived with this family, rent free for the duration of her pregnancy (although she did help them with some baby sitting time and shared her WIC foods with them). She worked full time for the duration of her pregnancy.

When the baby arrived she moved into a government subsidized/welfare apartment.... FAR nicer than the apartment I was living in at the time. (Greater Boston area) Cable, air, heat etc all included. She had almost NOTHING to put in this apartment, but was given things from some pro-life groups and such.... some furniture, dishes... plus whatever she had taken with her when she moved away from her parents. She was also given a car seat for the baby.

She needed MANY, MANY necessities (like a crib) and didn't know WHEN she would be going back to work. She had NO support from the baby's father (I never even met him). I was her child birth coach and apparently one of her only friends during this time. I helped her with what I could, but I was living paycheck to paycheck myself at the time. I would occasionally buy her a piece of maternity clothing, lunch, or a bit of gas for her car.

Shortly after the baby arrived it was tax return time. Because she had been working full time, she was getting a refund. She KNEW this would be her last big influx of cash for the foreseeable future. Did she buy a crib?? NO Did she stock up on diapers and formula?? NO Did she buy a more reliable car?? Did she squirrel the money away and save it for an emergency?? NO

She bought a BIG television and a comfy sofa and some new clothes with her money. I was FLOORED. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

Honestly... it was VERY HARD for me to continue to be her friend after that. I know that sounds very petty of me... but I couldn't help the way I felt.

It seemed like such an immature and RIDICULOUS thing to do. I just couldn't get past it. Her son was coming into this world with almost NOTHING. She didn't really know when her next $1 would be coming in, and this is what she does. She was totally relying on "the system" to take care of her.... and she said as much to me!! She actually suggested that I get pregnant and then the government could give me a nice apartment in her complex!

I let our friendship kind of fall by the wayside after that. I still saw her a few times and drove her to a few appointments after the baby was born (she ended up with a c-section), but I just couldn't continue to be a good and true friend. I suppose that wasn't very Christian of me... but it was the way I felt.

So anyhow, I totally get how you are feeling. I would say that you should totally STOP lending/giving this "friend" money before you end up feeling EVEN MORE taken advantage of. Sorry I can't be of more help...........P

 

[mwatson011]

Ok, it sounds like she is a good person who needs to adjust to her situation.

I stayed home when my girls were born, until my youngest was almost 3. We almost lost our home and had to borrow money from family and I went back to work. It is almost a year later, and while we are recovering, it is still a struggle. Admittedly, we made poor financial decisions before we had children, because we both worked good paying jobs, thought we could afford it all, and didn't look forward. Would I have done some things differently? Of course. That doesn't make me a bad person. My entire family thinks I am a horrible mother for working. I tell them I would rather work while they are in preschool and come home to a nice house than stay home with them all day in a less than desirable small apartment, which is all we could afford if I was staying home. I don't walk around crying poor, but our close family members know we are still struggling and help us out here and there... Sometimes, I feel really crappy when I am handed money, and I don't squander it, and I do appreciate it. My mother-in-law came up with a nice idea for us...


Instead of being the go to person every time she needs help, offer her $200 as a "grocery fund". The money stays in the envelope, and she takes it when she needs it and repays it when she can. That way, she does not have to ask you to borrow money, as long as she pays back the envelope as she would have paid you back. This is what my MIL did for us. We are repaying our loan into an envelope, and if we need to take some of the $ back, we do, but in the end, we will repay in full at our own pace. Maybe that little bit of budgeting will help her take more control of her other finances..

Really, though, I would encourage her to look for a PT job. I don't see the reason she can't get a PT job with kids in middle school. She could probably go through a temp agency, so she could try new things, and if one employer doesn't offer the flexibility she needs, she can move on. Temp agencies have lots of PT opportunities that she would not find on her own.

As far as splurging on herself, we all do it in different ways and to different degrees, and once in a while, we all should. My favorite splurge is having my mom watch the kiddos so DH and I can go to our local upscale restaurant. We sit at a table in the bar area, which is more casual, and order sandwiches. That way, we get the atmosphere and quality food, but without spending $60 a platter and feeling guilty about it every time a bill needs to get paid. Mind you, the last time we did this was well before Christmas. I buy my clothes at goodwill so that I can buy my girls new clothes with coupons during a sale. I have been drooling over the shape ups sneakers, but I would feel guilty even receiving those as a gift, because the money could have been spent better. To me, it would be foolish to buy UGGS or Coach anything even if I had the extra spending money.

Oh, and if anyone is wondering, we actually won our trip to Disney, through my husband's employer, so we did not use mortgage money to visit the mouse!

 

[mrsklamc]

Have you all read 'Stop Acting Rich'? It explains the mindset of a lot of these people.

 

[sumertime]

I haven't read all posts, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned. But I think that the friend's DH would really benefit from adjusting his tax exemptions so that he is getting back more in his paycheck each month. It sounds like they could really use the money to get by NOW instead of waiting until the beginning of the year to get it back. That would get rid of the big splurge problem as well.

 

[DCLbrideSept2009]

I agree with one of the previous posters that you should buy her a book... I would recommend one of Dave Ramsey's books. (Or even see if you can find Financial Peace University anywhere near you and sign her up for it.) We never borrowed money, but we were TERRIBLE at managing our money and pretty much living paycheck to paycheck. We make decent money but never seemed to know where it all went. Then we started FPU, got ourselves on a budget and a PLAN and it's been sooooo much better! We're still going through FPU (it's a 13-week course), but already things have improved dramatically. We started it at a good time since it was right before we got our tax refund and then DH got his bonus. So not only do we budget our regular income monthly, but we budgeted out the tax refund AND his bonus. This way, we didn't just go out and spend it on this and that and then it's gone and think, "oh, shoot... should've spent it on this or that instead" or "oops, forgot we needed to pay this..."