Sort of budget related...a vent

[disneyfan55]

Thank you all for your responses!

To answer some of the questions...


The usual loan has been anywhere between $20 and $150 depending on which time we're talking about. It happened a lot at the end of last year right before the holidays. They had no money for food once they bought gifts, etc. And the money, as far as I know, is always used to buy food. I give her rides to the grocery store as they don't have a car (can't afford one).

They really don't have anyone else to turn to as far as borrowing money. Both her and her DH have lost their parents, and the only close relative is as strapped for cash as they are (to hear her tell it, at least). When she asks me for money lamenting that her kids won't have milk, etc, I have a hard time ignoring that.

I know her DH doesn't make great money (the wages where he works are public knowledge - local government job) and she doesn't work so their income is really low, so it feels sort of spiteful to refuse to loan $20 or $50. I am going to stop lending money, though. I guess I am enabling her, when you put it that way.

I don't know what to tell you. I guess how you can feel bad and lend her money for milk and since it's really not that much and she pays you back that's probably why you've done it all this time. If she's really using the money for what she says, I guess I might do so as well, not saying it would make me feel better about what she does, but for the kids. (I guess I have a weak spot for small children)

 

[Mathfailure]

My best friend for many, many years, is terrible with money. Absolutely cannot not spend. She is single, makes a lot of money, and has nothing. Already went through bk. but cannot again because under the new laws will have to go chpt. 13 - she would never make it.

I also do not lend money, ever, and although our household income is less than hers, our net worth is much higher. She knows how I feel, and when asked yet again I help her with setting up a budget. But she is not interested in following one.

Now, my advice is to stop lending money, and even perhaps stop being so available for rides etc. Because right now, what they are doing is working for them, to sound like Dr. Phil!, because the consequences are dulled by good intentions of other. The first time they have hungry children because no one covered for them might be the wake up call they need.

 

[ncmickeyluvr]

I really thought I would advise you to cut her off. That's more my style. Your friend sounded like my sister at first, except my sister is the type that ALWAYS has money for extras....but not for food and electricity. I stopped giving her loans years ago. I got so resentful of her. We were living very modestly at the time and her family always had the latest and greatest...yet we were buying her groceries.

See, your friend doesn't sound like that to me. She sounds like someone who tries hard and scrapes by- with a little help. I imagine that for someone who never has any extra at the end of the month, it might feel great to just once a year be able to buy an extravagance. I can remember those days. DH and I lived paycheck to paycheck for years and when that tax return came in it felt AWESOME to buy something....just once.

Cut her some slack. You're a good friend.

 

[defendthehill]

Something that happened the other day has me really peeved, and I would apprecaite your input on the situation. I was out with a friend who is always and forever broke. As in, it's a week until payday and she is asking me to loan her $ to get milk/bread/etc for her kids to get through the week. This doesn't happen every week, but it happens at least once every couple months. And honestly, it didn't bother me until just the other day...

Her family got their tax return recently and she was bragging about being all caught up on bills. Of course, I was happy for her. And then she points out her new boots, a pair of Uggs. And that leads me to remember that last year it was a Coach purse and wallet, and the year before, it was probably something else that was bought with the tax return. It's like the money burns a hole in her/their pocket. And now, today, with payday a week away, she's complaining about not having $ again.

I know it's petty of me, but this really has me ticked. I'm thinking no more loaning money for me...and I know that's probably a petty thing to do, but it just frustrates me that instead of putting anything away for a rainy day, every cent apparently gets spent. I just don't get it. That money spent on those boots would have solved their money problem this week.

And now, brutal honest time - I considered buying similar boots last year when my old boots needed replacing, and I wonder if maybe part of what I am feeling is jealousy. But when I tried on those boots and thought about it, it just didn't make sense to me to spend that much on them. So I toodled off to the Bean outlet and got a pair of $20 winter boots that have worked out perfectly - I really like them, and I don't regret not getting the other ones for a second.

So help me understand why I am so ticked off about this...am I just petty or is there really something to be frustrated about on my part?

{donning flamesuit and awaiting the roasting}

Money problems are generally never about money. This situation proves that. Money problems are decision making problems. I want vs. I need. Know the difference and succeed. I want becomes I need when it is all about greed.

 

[apnep]

So help me understand why I am so ticked off about this...am I just petty

Heck no you are not petty! I am amazed that you can call yourself petty when you have loaned her money over and over again. You're ticked because you choose to spend your money wisely and while she doesn't she seems to run to you to help get her through the week and then you see her with these luxury purchases. Stop loaning her money!!

Angela

 

[disykat]

I don't think you're being petty in the least. I don't see not loaning her money as "cutting her off." It's not your job to be her bank. Now that you've realized it's not really about her not having money, it's about the choices she makes - you realize she has the means to take care of herself and you need to subtract yourself from her financial picture. There's no need for you to enable bad habits you don't approve of, just refuse to be part of it.

I have no problem sympathizing with people about what things cost. My friends and I all moan about our finances at times and we're all doing fine. Sometimes you just get tired of the constant outflow of money! However, when someone goes as far as borrowing they have "invited someone in" to their finances. Banks have the option of calling in or refusing loans - if you're functioning as a bank, you do too!

 

[badblackpug]

Thank you all for your responses!

To answer some of the questions...


The usual loan has been anywhere between $20 and $150 depending on which time we're talking about. It happened a lot at the end of last year right before the holidays. They had no money for food once they bought gifts, etc. And the money, as far as I know, is always used to buy food. I give her rides to the grocery store as they don't have a car (can't afford one).

They really don't have anyone else to turn to as far as borrowing money. Both her and her DH have lost their parents, and the only close relative is as strapped for cash as they are (to hear her tell it, at least). When she asks me for money lamenting that her kids won't have milk, etc, I have a hard time ignoring that.

I know her DH doesn't make great money (the wages where he works are public knowledge - local government job) and she doesn't work so their income is really low, so it feels sort of spiteful to refuse to loan $20 or $50. I am going to stop lending money, though. I guess I am enabling her, when you put it that way.

Okay, I understand a little splurge if you get extra money, but in this situation I'd have to say no. ...and I am a spender.

1st, she needs to get a job. ...or her husband needs to get a 2nd job. If things are so desperate, on a semi regular basis, then she needs to go to work. Staying home is all fine and dandy if you can afford it, but they clearly can't.

Again, I am a spender. (not very budget, but sorry) I have been known to buy shoes and Coach purses and lingerie and clothes and whatnot, but my bills are always paid and there is always food in the cupboard. Christmas gifts are lovely, but if you are buying so many that you can't afford to eat, it is overkill. I can see how you would feel bad when she says that her kids need food, but there has to be a cut off point. Maybe next time she asks your for a loan tell her you just don't have it and offer to help her learn to budget.

 

[kelleyrn2000]

I feel the same as OP. My SIL is a SAHM and always bragging about how much money her DH makes...but they are always "borrowing" money from family. Usually they don't pay back "loans" but so far my DH is pressuring them to keep making payments on the loan we made last year (1,000). Keep in mind my own DH has been laid off for about 5 months out of the year last year.

I had to go back to work more hours than I wanted to help keep us in our "safety zone" for our bank account. And it makes me upset knowing they have bought new furniture, new computers, etc. and that her DH showers her with Coach purses, Pandora bracelets, etc. They also go out to eat ALOT. And then there's the overnight babysitters they have...
I admit I feel jealous that she gets to be a stay at home mom and get all these nice things.
I think "why am I working so hard to support her bad spending habits?" It just doesn't seem fair to me. So I know how you feel when you see your friend in her new Uggs.

At least we aren't in debt and hopefully we'll get paid back this year in time for Disney (wishful thinking I know!)

I don't have any advice for you, but I know how you must feel!

 

[meg8017]

I can sympathize. I lost a very good friend over money. Her and her DH both have a raging sense of entitlement and were forever crying broke, while also saying want to see my new ____. When they got pregnant with #2, they needed to move and had NO money for first, last and security on a new place. Her parents refused to loan it and his truly didn't have it. Feeling bad, my parents lent them the money with the intention that they would pay it back when they got their security back from the current apartment. Well, they didn't end up getting it back. They paid back a small amount of the loan over a few months then stopped. When they got their next tax return, they had the nerve to brag to me that it was $8000 So when my parents asked to please repay the money they refused. Went and bought a huge flat screen tv, coach bag and many other things. I couldn't stay friends with someone who would do that, let alone to my parents. I now know, never loan what you can't afford to give away. If I were you, I wouldn't loan to her anymore, just tell her you can't afford it. At least you won't be enabling. Good luck.

 

[dis-happy]

I'd buy her a gift....the Dave Ramsey book. Some people are just dumb money wise and maybe, just maybe she would learn from the book and change her ways. I consider myself money savvy but I still learned some things from Total Money Makeover. Maybe your friend will learn too! At least, you can tell her you won't loan her any money until she reads the book.

 

[Leajess99]

You are NOT petty!!!!!!!!!! I know someone who is like that and while she "can't afford" anything, she can buy her kid expensive items just because the kid wants them. I have learned to keep my money in my pocket. I have helped a couple of friends who truely needed it and they always repay me financially or in kind. There have been times when a friend of mine and I go out to eat and I know she doesn't have a lot so I will treat. She sometimes hates that but at the same time she will invite my kids and I over to her house and will feed us dinner. That is a fair trade to me.

 

[ohlas]

Oh i had a friend like this she would always give it back too... but i started to feel like the atm machine..

1. how much do you love her
2. how much is your life entertwined with hers
3. man you still want ugg boots go buy them
4. tell her its bugging you

Just tell her it bugs you the next time she ask, then give her the loan if you want because it seems she is trustworth to pay it back.

 

[DISdreamin']

Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

I understand not wanting her kids to suffer, but she needs to learn how to budget her money so they don't run out before the next paycheck. Are you close enough with her that you could tactfully suggest she might qualify for food stamps or free lunch at school for her kids?

I have actually discussed these ideas with her when she has said things were really bad. The kids do get free lunches at school, but when they are off school - like at Christmas or winter break - that is when they have the most trouble because she has to prepare three meals a day at home. I have talked to her about food stamps when she mentioned they were really struggling and there was always some reason she couldn't do it: they make too much (not from what I could tell on the web), she didn't have a way to get there (I offered to drive her if it helped), they would want them to sell their car (at the time they had one, but it wasn't on the road - they subsequently got rid of it), etc. There was always some reason not to do it.

meg8017, your story definitely takes the cake! Oh, that would make me MAD. This situation, thankfully, is nowhere near that extreme.

dis-happy, I loved TTMM - learned a lot from it! I checked it out of the library and read it cover to cover. Sadly, when I tried discussing the idea of a budget the response has been that they already do that (I brought up the fact that we were doing a written budget for the first time...was told they always budget). IMO if you're running out of food money, there's an issue with your budget. It's that whole "come to the end of the money before the end of the month" problem.

And ohlas - thinking about this has brought me to the conclusion that I'm totally over the Uggs. Cute, but not practical for where I live - and I love my cheap-o $20 boots! But I do hear you with your suggestions.

Lastly, I've tried to be generous because my family has been very blessed. DH and I make a nice living doing things we love, and we have all the material possessions we need (okay, someday I'd love some dining room chairs to go with my gorgeous scratch-and-dent-sale table, but ya know... ). It is very sad to watch someone struggling, and yet I know we're really not in a position to be able to fix someone else's financial woes - that is something you have to do yourself.

 

[EKW]

I've been where you are...but with a family member. She always has money for new golf clubs, a weekend on the ski slopes, and Fridays at the local pub. Amazingly, come my kids birthdays, she can't even afford a 49 cent card.

Over the past three years the only time I saw this person her and her family was if I was treating them. Over time it became obvious that they were only going to spend the minutes it took to eat, or watch the ballgame, or have pictures taken. If I suggested they just hang out with us they suddenly had urgent business at home. The last half dozen times we got together they all had their cell phones out all thru dinner, texting friends the whole time.

Then the calls wanting money started. I gave...not loaned...her money a few times. One time my relative told me this long story about how she didn't have enough gas to get to work and back that week...and she didn't have any food at home. I gave her money. We went from the restaurant to WalMarts, where she proceded to use the money I'd given her to buy her kids swimsuits and new underwear for herself.

The next time I was at her house I took a gander...she has designer body spray/wash/etc in several scents in her bathroom. Check my bathroom and you'll find a bar of ivory soap and some dove deodorant. She has a walk-in closet filled with clothing (my clothing takes up less than 18" in my closet) and she has around 100 pairs of shoes.

My response? I quit sending birthday gifts for her and her kids. I haven't invited them to go out with us in over 6 months. When she brings up money, I sympathize and wish her well.

And, ya know, I don't feel bad about it at all. Our relationship now exists of phone calls once every two or three months. It's not a loss!

I suggest breaking the cycle...don't let your friend take advantage of you anymore. As long as you play the game, she will, too!

 

[MaryKLady]

IMHO, it is my policy not to lend to friends or borrow...it's just not worth the worry to me. Now, I have been known to take a friend out for a pedi because I knew she couldn't afford it on her own. It's just too uncomfortable , I would rather gift it....but in your case she does pay you back so it's not like she owes you tons of money.

I think you may just be irritated by her lack of responsibility. Have you pointed out to her, nicely of course, that it irritates you when she is crying poverty and her tear drops are falling on a pair of $100 boots?...which BTW are not waterproof and provide no support.

 

[balletmom97]

Like PP, I do not give loans to friends (or family, for that matter). If I want to help them, I give them a gift. (Only within *my* budget, though.)

Next time you might consider telling her that you aren't comfortable with loans, but would like to give her a one time (small) gift to help get them ahead in their budget. If she will "repay" that money back into her budget, she will always have grocery money.

I did have a friend who didn't want it as a gift, so I told her to "pay it forward" when she was in a better financial position. She did. (BTW- I was once the recipient of a "I won't loan, but will gift" and it truly did help get us on track. I consider it a privilege to be able to do the same.)

It is a sticky situation....I hope you find a solution that brings you peace.

 

[3boymthr]

I totally get where you're coming from. I had a cousin who was always crying poor mouth. Her kids and mine were the same ages. When my kids were little I was a stay at home mom and I'd bring the kids over to play with hers. She too was a stay at home mom. Multiple times I was there visiting and they called to say they were going to either a)foreclose on the house, b) reposess the car, c) shut off the phone, electric, water, etc. Five times they moved so that they could use the equity in the house to get caught up on the mortgage. Yet, at the same time, they always spent than I could imagine. Things like deluxe cable with all the movie chanels, a pool, trips, had central air installed, got new hardwood floors, etc. I stopped feeling sympathy when she got a couple jobs then quit because her husband felt that no wife of his was going to work and he wasn't going to babysit while she worked, but yet they still couldn't pay the bills. For her birthday one year her brother paid her $200 phone bill and $500 electric bill. Whenever she cried poor mouth I used to want to say then why are you spending so much but for the sake of peace in the family I held my tongue and gently suggested she use coupons. Luckily she never asked me for money. I'm not sure what I would have done.

 

[Maddie2]

Hi there. I read the posts only on the first page, but I would suggest that your friend check out your local Food Pantry. Does your town have one? If so, it is likely that your friend's family would qualify.

I volunteer at our local pantry and know a little bit about it. In some towns you have to qualify based on your household income, whereas in some towns, you just have to say that you have a need. Some pantries are emergency-only with the number of yearly visits limited, some have less restrictions. In some places, you also have to be on a food stamps program, in some you don't. It varies state by state, town by town.

We usually give a good 2 weeks worth of groceries to our recipients. This consists of mostly dry and canned goods, but we also give them a voucher to go to a local grocery store for milk, bread, and eggs. Everything is based on the household size and ages of those living there (diapers for babies, etc).

In other towns around here, there are also weekly gatherings where produce and meat products are distributed. Maybe you have that where you live too?

It might be worth a phone call or two to find out and relay the information on to your friend. You could just tell her that you know they need the help at times and this way she wouldn't have to pay anyone back, thus helping them more in the long run.

Good luck.

 

[robinb]

I know that a lot of people here have suggested that you cut your friend off. I have to chime in here and say that I am not one of them. Your friend seems to be guilty of three crimes here (1) treating herself ONCE A YEAR and (2) being too proud to seek a food pantry or food stamps and (3) using you as her personal pay-day loan company. Personally, I have no problem with (1) or (2) and only you know if you can continue to help her family through tough times or not. From your posts she doesn't seem like she is continually squandering money for luxuries. She only asks you for money when she is desperate to feed her kids. Finally, she always pays you back. IMO, she is NOT a deadbeat. She certainly has some cash flow issues but will you really teach her those lessons through the empty stomachs of her children? Really? If the answer is "yes" then being petty is the least of your problems.

I would recommend that you continue to support your friend and her kids.

 

[defendthehill]

I know that a lot of people here have suggested that you cut your friend off. I have to chime in here and say that I am not one of them. Your friend seems to be guilty of three crimes here (1) treating herself ONCE A YEAR and (2) being too proud to seek a food pantry or food stamps and (3) using you as her personal pay-day loan company. Personally, I have no problem with (1) or (2) and only you know if you can continue to help her family through tough times or not. From your posts she doesn't seem like she is continually squandering money for luxuries. She only asks you for money when she is desperate to feed her kids. Finally, she always pays you back. IMO, she is NOT a deadbeat. She certainly has some cash flow issues but will you really teach her those lessons through the empty stomachs of her children? Really? If the answer is "yes" then being petty is the least of your problems.

I would recommend that you continue to support your friend and her kids.

Let me start by saying I respect your opinion here. I am just going to disagree. But do not take this as a disrespectful post it is not.

1. Are you going to teach her a lesson? Sounds like someone needs to.
2. If my kids were in need....I would not be too proud to ask a food pantry, or the government for assistance. People in America do not have to starve.
If she is too proud to ask for help.....to feed her kids....I don't think so.
3. Being petty is NOT the least of the OP's problems. Being responsible, charitable, caring, and sometimes a realist are qualities I think are worth having.

OP....give to a local food bank. Find a local church who runs one. Donate food or money to them. When your friend asks for help again. Refer her to the food bank.