Sorry, another car seat for toddlers question...

JMLBrats

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So DD is almost 2.5 now and I'm looking for an inexpensive choice to get her through until she's ready for a booster. Don't want to come off as being cheap, but money's pretty tight right now. She's been using a hand me down from my older ones, but it's getting pretty rough and I'd like to get her into something better.

Any suggestions?
 
Target has a "High Back Gotham Booster Car Seat".....Forward-facing harness booster for children 22-40 lbs. or belt-positioning booster for childern 40-80 lbs. It is in the add this week for $37.00 (so you would have to get it today for that price) but we got it 2 weeks ago and paid $39 (reg price). My daughter turned 2 in Dec and she weighs 26 pounds. She loves the seat and it will last till she is out of the carseat all together!

Good luck, we looked around and I thougnt that I would be spending more than that........ she didn't like the one that cost more!
 
Oh thanks, I saw that the Graco booster was on sale & was tempted to buy it for one of my 2 older ones but the truth is we don't really need any more boosters-I'll run over and ck out the one you just suggested!
 
You really want to find a seat that is going to keep your dd harnessed until at least 40 lb AND 4 years old. That is generally the minimum recommended age for a booster. Even better if you can keep her harnessed longer.

How much does she weigh? What is her torso height? I know there are a couple of car seat experts that post here that can help.
 

Just my .02....

The longer you harness the child, the safer. I know $$ is an issue but your child's safety is not where you want to scrimp. I am in Canada so the best we get is the Safety 1st Apex which harnesses to 65 pounds but I have researched and I know you all have Britax seats that harness to 80 pounds.

Not trying to scare you but this video made me change my mind as I was trying to rush my dd into a booster and wanted to save my money too but now will keep them harnessed for as long as I can..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azgBhZfcqaQ

Here are the details ..........

PLEASE READ THIS AFTER YOU WATCH THE VIDEO...
It has recently come to my attention that there is another seat besides the Britax Regent (that I mention in the video) that will also hold a child in a 5-point harness up to 80 pounds. It is called the Radian80 made by Sunshine Kids and can be found here:
http://skjp.com/products/index.php?v=...

Also, to find a location to get your carseat installation inspected, go to:
http://www.seatcheck.org/

**********NEWS************

We have begun a non-profit foundation recently in honor and memory of Kyle. You can find the webpage here - http://www.kyledavidmiller.org
Our mission is to keep children in a 5pt safety harness up to 80lbs - we are accepting applications from families who cannot afford to purchase these car seats and are supplying those seats through the tax-free donations you can make through the site. We also have car seat safety information posted and will answer any question you have on car seat safety through the contact webpage. Please visit the site and help keep as many children safe as we can.

Video Info:
My son was killed in a car accident last year because a senile, 78 year old woman ran a red light and hit us causing us to flip into a ditch. Kyle's seatbelt came unlatched during the roll and he was ejected. His seatbelt was later examined by several experts who determined it was faulty and told me that seatbelts regularly fail, especially in roll over accidents. I had no idea that seatbelts could fail and think that this is something everyone should be made aware of. The government also needs to be more strict about making sure the people they issue licenses to are fit to drive...
In Loving Memory of
Kyle David Miller
3/13/02 - 5/29/05
 
Just my .02....

The longer you harness the child, the safer. I know $$ is an issue but your child's safety is not where you want to scrimp. I am in Canada so the best we get is the Safety 1st Apex which harnesses to 65 pounds but I have researched and I know you all have Britax seats that harness to 80 pounds.

Not trying to scare you but this video made me change my mind as I was trying to rush my dd into a booster and wanted to save my money too but now will keep them harnessed for as long as I can..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azgBhZfcqaQ

Here are the details ..........

PLEASE READ THIS AFTER YOU WATCH THE VIDEO...
It has recently come to my attention that there is another seat besides the Britax Regent (that I mention in the video) that will also hold a child in a 5-point harness up to 80 pounds. It is called the Radian80 made by Sunshine Kids and can be found here:
http://skjp.com/products/index.php?v=...

Also, to find a location to get your carseat installation inspected, go to:
http://www.seatcheck.org/

**********NEWS************

We have begun a non-profit foundation recently in honor and memory of Kyle. You can find the webpage here - http://www.kyledavidmiller.org
Our mission is to keep children in a 5pt safety harness up to 80lbs - we are accepting applications from families who cannot afford to purchase these car seats and are supplying those seats through the tax-free donations you can make through the site. We also have car seat safety information posted and will answer any question you have on car seat safety through the contact webpage. Please visit the site and help keep as many children safe as we can.

Video Info:
My son was killed in a car accident last year because a senile, 78 year old woman ran a red light and hit us causing us to flip into a ditch. Kyle's seatbelt came unlatched during the roll and he was ejected. His seatbelt was later examined by several experts who determined it was faulty and told me that seatbelts regularly fail, especially in roll over accidents. I had no idea that seatbelts could fail and think that this is something everyone should be made aware of. The government also needs to be more strict about making sure the people they issue licenses to are fit to drive...
In Loving Memory of
Kyle David Miller
3/13/02 - 5/29/05


Oh god. Not THAT misleading video again.

The booster seat was fine...his sister was in the same crash, and wasn't injured. THE SEAT BELT FAILED!!!!

Also, what you fail to mention, is that many cars tether systems aren't designed up to 80 pounds.
 
Not trying to mislead............

Here is an article regarding the video and circumstances taken from......

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/119817/article.html


Tragic YouTube Video Questions Seatbelt Safety
Parents urged to keep kids in five-point-harness car seats
By Cheryl Jensen and Joanne Helperin



Kyle Miller's parents tried to do everything right: The 3-year-old weighed 40 pounds — too big, they thought, for a five-point harness car seat — so they buckled their son and his older sister into booster seats. But when the family's minivan was hit by a driver running a red light in May 2005, it rolled over, and Kyle was ejected from the car and killed. His sister, though, emerged essentially unharmed.

Why one child survived and the other didn't, Kyle's parents assert, was because the seatbelt holding Kyle's car seat, which was buckled before impact, came unlatched when the vehicle rolled. Only afterward did the Millers learn they could purchase a car seat with a five-point harness capable of supporting up to 80 pounds and install it using the LATCH system, instead of seatbelts. LATCH, which stands for "lower anchors and tethers for children," is standard in 2002 and newer vehicles and provides rigid metal anchor points that parents can use to install LATCH-compatible car seats.

So the Millers produced a heartbreaking four-minute video, "Importance of a 5-Point Harness Carseat," warning parents about the possibility of seatbelt failure and urging them to keep their children in a car seat with a five-point harness as long as possible.

The Millers' video has been viewed almost two million times on YouTube, and its extensive reach has caused a stir among parents, child safety advocates and researchers. Some are concerned that the message parents may mistakenly take away from the video is, "Don't use seatbelts because they often fail."

Opinions differ on seatbelt failure
Seatbelt failure is a very rare occurrence, happening once or twice a year, according to a spokesman for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). Government statistics over the past eight years indicate that seatbelt failure of any kind — from a buckle releasing to a belt tearing — happened in about 0.05 percent of crashes involving children ages 14 and under.

Partners for Child Passenger Safety (PCPS) researchers at the Children's Hospital in Philadelphia have conducted some 800 detailed investigations of crashes involving children. None of these, they say, have involved belt failure or the belt buckle system unlatching or breaking apart in a crash.

But some safety advocates see it differently.

"It's a widespread problem with seatbelts unlatching, but no one can quantify it," said Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, founded by consumer advocate Ralph Nader. "A crash is so dynamic and dead men tell no tales. How do you know whether the child is really buckled in or not?"

In addition, from January 2000 through November 2006 there have been 180 safety recalls involving seatbelts that don't work properly in both passenger and commercial vehicles. These involve everything from belt webbing that could be cut by another part rubbing against it, to buckles that seem to latch but don't, to shoulder belts that might not retract. These defects don't necessarily result in injuries or deaths, because often they are identified and corrected before any real-world failures occur.

However, there have been several lawsuits in recent years regarding seatbelts, claiming people have been injured or killed when seatbelts failed. Some cases are settled out of court. Jury verdicts from those that do go to trial have been mixed and are often appealed. But on February 15, the family of an 18-year-old woman, who claimed she was killed in a rollover crash when her seat belt unlatched, was awarded a $24 million judgment by a Texas jury. Seat belt manufacturer Honeywell International Inc. insists that the woman wasn't buckled in and will appeal.

A verdict that size "could help other plaintiffs and encourage people to look more closely at the issue of buckles unlatching," said Sean Kane, of Safety Research & Strategies Inc. In Rehoboth, Mass. Christine Miller, Kyle's mother, says she is also considering legal action, and isn't convinced by NHTSA/s or CHOP's statistics.

"Since posting the video I have received at least 50 e-mails from people telling me about a situation in which they personally experienced or witnessed seatbelt failure," she said.

Stephanie Tombrello, executive director of SafetyBeltSafe U.S.A. (a nonprofit organization dedicated to child passenger safety), feels the problem isn't widespread, but it does exist.

"I truly believe, if people who are buckling up were routinely dying or being severely injured because their belts were opening, that's not something that could be covered up," she said. "So from a logical standpoint, this is not something that is happening all the time. But does it happen? Yes."

Stay in a five-point harness
Safety experts agree that children are better off in a restraint with a five-point harness for as long as possible.

"Everyone, children and adults, would be safer in a five-point belt," said Jennifer Stockburger, senior automotive engineer at Consumers Union. They are mandatory safety equipment for racecar drivers, for example. Five-point belts spread crash forces more evenly, decrease the likelihood of occupants sliding out from under a belt (known as submarining) and hold occupants in place so airbags can protect them better, she said.

While five-point belts in passenger vehicles aren't considered practical, Ford Motor Company has developed driver-friendly four-point seatbelts which it hopes will replace its current three-point belts by 2010.
When children reach 40 pounds, usually around the age of 4, parents have typically been advised to "graduate" them from a toddler car seat to a booster seat. Booster seats raise a child up so that the seatbelts fit correctly, which means the lap belt sits over the bones of the hips and low on the lap instead of riding up around the waist. The shoulder belt sits across the collarbone and shoulder, not the neck.

Until recently, most toddler car seats were designed to hold children only up to 40 pounds. Yet many children, like Kyle Miller, reach 40 pounds before their 4th birthday. So while they exceed the maximum weight limits for most toddler car seats, they still aren't tall enough for a booster seat.

In response, several major car seat manufacturers have begun developing larger car safety seats, with five-point harnesses and a tether. Eight or nine models are available and they fit children up to 65 or 80 pounds. While generally expensive, these seats may be used for several years after the child turns 4 years old. SafetyBeltSafe's Tombrello cautions that the lower anchors of the car seat LATCH system should be used with these seats only until a child is 48 pounds; after that, the vehicle's seatbelts must be used to secure the car seat instead. (For specifics on how to install a car seat correctly, including a demonstration video, see "Installing a Car Seat".)

In addition to posting the YouTube video, Christine Miller launched the Kyle David Miller Foundation. An education and advocacy organization, it also provides high-weight-limit five-point harness car seats for families who cannot afford them.

Don't rush to the next restraint level
In talking to parents, Tombrello reminds them that the move to a "big kid" booster seat is not necessarily an upgrade, given the reduced level of protection a child receives from a standard three-point seatbelt.

Safety advocacy groups such as Public Citizen, a nonprofit public interest organization, have urged the federal government and automakers to require integrated child and booster seats with five-point harnesses in passenger vehicles. Until that happens, though, all parties agree that using any booster seat is better than using a seatbelt alone. PCPS research, for example, found that using a belt-positioning booster seat with a vehicle's lap and shoulder belts reduces the risk of injury for children ages 4 through 7 years by 59 percent, to less than 1.0 percent.

As the Millers' painful experience attests, though, parents face less-than-perfect options as they seek to transport their children safely.

"There are a lot of things that can happen in a crash," Tombrello said. "So you have to do your very best, but you can't beat yourself up."
 
The Cosco Scenera is a good choice, and is good for the budget. We're an otherwise Britax-friendly family, but we got the Scenera for travel (it's lighter), and sometimes I think DS likes it better than his Britax. :)
 
The Scenera is a great seat, but not the best option for a 2 year old. I just bought one as an alternate seat for my 2 year old but he will not last that long in it.

If you look into the Radian, I would recommend the Radian 65 over the Radian 80. It is much less expensive and the harness height is the same height as it is on the Radian 80. Unless you have a really heavy kid, the Raian 80 is overkill. Most kids outgrow their seats by height far before they outgrow their seats by weight. The Radian is a great option b/c it has really high harness slots so will keep your child harnessed for a long time. It's decently prices at around $200. The only issue with the Radian is that it can have some install issues and is not compatible with all seats. If she is already forward facing you have a higher likelihood of it being compatible with your car.

The Apex is a really great option if you don't want to spend a fortune. But it does require adjustable headrest or a high seat back in the car to support the back of the seat. It harnesses up to 65 lbs and then turns into a booster. I believe you can find it online for around $100. If you have the adjustable head rests and don't want to spend a fortune, it's a great investment.

Another option would be the Fisher Price Safe Voyager Deluxe. It is the same shell as the Britax Marathon at a much lower price. Not all the bells and whistles as the Marathon but still an excellent seat. It has high harness slots and a max weight limit of 55 lbs. You could likely get her to 5 or 6 in this seat and she would be ready for a booster then. It has been discontinued but you can still find it online for a great price, I believe $120ish with free shipping.

You could also consider a combination booster. These seats are only going to keep her harnessed up to 40 lbs so if she hits 40 before age 4 she would need another seat. I know 2 good options in this category are the Evenflo Chase and the Evenflo Bolero/Generations. Both have higher harness slots. I have read that the Chase does not convert to the best booster but if you have locking seat belts it's usually ok. The Chase runs $60ish at Target/Walmart. I have looked for the Bolero which is the lower cost version of the Generations and can't find it anywhere. The generation is available at bru for $100ish. I put my dd in it the other day. Seems to be a very comfy seast. Almost all the other combination boosters either don't convert to a decent booster or have such low top harness slots that your child will outgrow them before they hit age 4.
 
I know my avatar picture is misleading, but DS is almost 3, is tall, and about average weight, and it's going to last him quite awhile longer. Longer than his Roundabout, at least!


So I am, actually, speaking from direct experience.
 
The Scenera is a great seat, but not the best option for a 2 year old. I just bought one as an alternate seat for my 2 year old but he will not last that long in it.

If you look into the Radian, I would recommend the Radian 65 over the Radian 80. It is much less expensive and the harness height is the same height as it is on the Radian 80. Unless you have a really heavy kid, the Raian 80 is overkill. Most kids outgrow their seats by height far before they outgrow their seats by weight. The Radian is a great option b/c it has really high harness slots so will keep your child harnessed for a long time. It's decently prices at around $200. The only issue with the Radian is that it can have some install issues and is not compatible with all seats. If she is already forward facing you have a higher likelihood of it being compatible with your car.

The Apex is a really great option if you don't want to spend a fortune. But it does require adjustable headrest or a high seat back in the car to support the back of the seat. It harnesses up to 65 lbs and then turns into a booster. I believe you can find it online for around $100. If you have the adjustable head rests and don't want to spend a fortune, it's a great investment.

Another option would be the Fisher Price Safe Voyager Deluxe. It is the same shell as the Britax Marathon at a much lower price. Not all the bells and whistles as the Marathon but still an excellent seat. It has high harness slots and a max weight limit of 55 lbs. You could likely get her to 5 or 6 in this seat and she would be ready for a booster then. It has been discontinued but you can still find it online for a great price, I believe $120ish with free shipping.

You could also consider a combination booster. These seats are only going to keep her harnessed up to 40 lbs so if she hits 40 before age 4 she would need another seat. I know 2 good options in this category are the Evenflo Chase and the Evenflo Bolero/Generations. Both have higher harness slots. I have read that the Chase does not convert to the best booster but if you have locking seat belts it's usually ok. The Chase runs $60ish at Target/Walmart. I have looked for the Bolero which is the lower cost version of the Generations and can't find it anywhere. The generation is available at bru for $100ish. I put my dd in it the other day. Seems to be a very comfy seast. Almost all the other combination boosters either don't convert to a decent booster or have such low top harness slots that your child will outgrow them before they hit age 4.


I have found from my older 2, that it is very difficult to find good combination booster seats. So I pretty much feel that I'd prefer to get her a seat that's appropriate for her age now til about age 4 and then buy her a good booster seat.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll be looking into the various ones and making a decision soon.
 
I have found from my older 2, that it is very difficult to find good combination booster seats. So I pretty much feel that I'd prefer to get her a seat that's appropriate for her age now til about age 4 and then buy her a good booster seat.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll be looking into the various ones and making a decision soon.

I think that is an excellent choice.
 
My DD and DS are both in Graco seats that take up to 80lbs and have a 5pt harness! they are FABULOUS seats and not that expensive. We got them at Babies R Us for i believe 70$
 
SafetyBeltSafe's Tombrello cautions that the lower anchors of the car seat LATCH system should be used with these seats only until a child is 48 pounds; after that, the vehicle's seatbelts must be used to secure the car seat instead. (For specifics on how to install a car seat correctly, including a demonstration video, see "Installing a Car Seat".)


So you CANNOT rely on the tether system until 65 or 80 pounds! You must rely on the SEATBELT! Which is why the seatbelt is the important issue....and you are perfectly fine and safe using a booster seat from Graco, not the $350 monstrosity from Britax that so many people here endlessly push.
 
SafetyBeltSafe's Tombrello cautions that the lower anchors of the car seat LATCH system should be used with these seats only until a child is 48 pounds; after that, the vehicle's seatbelts must be used to secure the car seat instead. (For specifics on how to install a car seat correctly, including a demonstration video, see "Installing a Car Seat".)


So you CANNOT rely on the tether system until 65 or 80 pounds! You must rely on the SEATBELT! Which is why the seatbelt is the important issue....and you are perfectly fine and safe using a booster seat from Graco, not the $350 monstrosity from Britax that so many people here endlessly push.

The difference is, if the seatbelt fails and your child is in the 5 point harness, the child AND the seat are ejected from the vehicle together, so the seat is still likely to bear a lot of the impact from the crash. In the case of a booster, the seat and child will not be together so all of the impact will be on the child's body.

OP--we had a 5-point seat from Target that was great and very inexpensive (around $50 or so).
 
The difference is, if the seatbelt fails and your child is in the 5 point harness, the child AND the seat are ejected from the vehicle together, so the seat is still likely to bear a lot of the impact from the crash. In the case of a booster, the seat and child will not be together so all of the impact will be on the child's body.

OP--we had a 5-point seat from Target that was great and very inexpensive (around $50 or so).

Still, I don't want DS flying out, even in a harnessed car seat. I also don't want a DS who is 12 flying out. Or my 80 year old dad.

So it's the seat belts we should worry about.
 
The difference is, if the seatbelt fails and your child is in the 5 point harness, the child AND the seat are ejected from the vehicle together, so the seat is still likely to bear a lot of the impact from the crash. In the case of a booster, the seat and child will not be together so all of the impact will be on the child's body.

so true ::yes::
 
I just wanted to add that we have a 5 point harness seat that is rated to use the latch and tether system until 60 lbs. (I believe this is because the seat is MUCH lighter than others, but don't really know the specifics). Anyway, the seat is the Safeguard Go. It can also be used after 60 pounds as a belt positioning booster that is ALSO latched into place. As far as I know, this is the only booster that also uses latch.

Anyway, we have loved them so far and they are a breeze to travel with as they are so light and fold up into a small case that they come with. You CAN NOT use them on an airplane though because there is no tether on planes, and they CAN NOT be used as a 5 point harness if you don't also use the tether (you CAN use just a seat belt and tether in the car if you don't have latch though...). My five year old still fits great in his (and can buckle it himself) and he is 46 inches tall... HTH!

Oh, one more thing... sometimes my 3 year old decides she wants to ride in my 5 year old's seat when he is at school, and it takes a total of about 30 seconds to adjust it...:thumbsup2
 
I just wanted to add that we have a 5 point harness seat that is rated to use the latch and tether system until 60 lbs. (I believe this is because the seat is MUCH lighter than others, but don't really know the specifics). Anyway, the seat is the Safeguard Go. It can also be used after 60 pounds as a belt positioning booster that is ALSO latched into place. As far as I know, this is the only booster that also uses latch.

Anyway, we have loved them so far and they are a breeze to travel with as they are so light and fold up into a small case that they come with. You CAN NOT use them on an airplane though because there is no tether on planes, and they CAN NOT be used as a 5 point harness if you don't also use the tether (you CAN use just a seat belt and tether in the car if you don't have latch though...). My five year old still fits great in his (and can buckle it himself) and he is 46 inches tall... HTH!

Oh, one more thing... sometimes my 3 year old decides she wants to ride in my 5 year old's seat when he is at school, and it takes a total of about 30 seconds to adjust it...:thumbsup2

Thanks, that one sounds interesting. I'll check it out. We don't fly anyway so that's not even a thought.
 


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