Sony A200

[kenny]

I have been posting questions the past few days as I am going back and forther between a Sony and Nikon DSLR. Making my first purchase and want to make the right decision.

At first it was between the a200 and D40 but now thinking D60 vs a200. Keep waving back and forth.

I was sold on the A200 yesterday but now and concerned as I read that it does not perform well in low light and thinking maybe the Nikon is better (although more $$). While Disney will not be my primary reason for buying a new camera, I do want to take some great pics like I see everyone else post on these boards!

For any Sona200 users, how do your pics turn out in low light? Disney has lots of places (rides, night parades, fireworks etc) that have limited light adn am afraid if I go the Sony route I will be disappointed in my pics.

How have yours turned out and what are your experiences?

Thanks

 

[Code]

Neither of these cameras are going to be low light performers out of the box with the kit lens, but that has everything to do with the lens and nothing to do with either camera.. the sensors in these are comparable.

The kit lenses are "slow", and by that I mean they have small maximum apertures (f/3.5-5.6 .. higher numbers are smaller aperture), which means they are not capable of the shutter speeds you need for the type of low light shooting you are talking about (specifically rides and night parades, as you can do fireworks with any lens just needing a tripod).

Shooting Disney rides and night parades are very demanding situations. You need a prime lens (fixed focal length.. no zoom) because they are capable of much larger apertures.

If you go with Nikon D60, your prime options are limited to those that have focus motors in the lens unless you want to manual focus, as it does not have a motor in the body. This rules out most Nikon primes, including the cheap Nikon 50mm f/1.8 (about $100). The Sigma 30mm f/1.4 works for auto-focus, but it is $440-480ish (price recently went up).

With Sony, the cheapest prime that Sony sells is the 50mm f/1.4 at $350, and the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 is also an option as well as a few other slightly cheaper Sigmas... 20mm f/1.8, 24mm f/1.8, 28mm f/1.8. There is a cheaper option, however, it's just hard to recommend as a legitimate option. Old Minolta AF lenses work on all Sony DSLRs, so if you are Ebay saavy, you can get a Minolta 50mm f/1.7 for around $130ish, they are widely available. Just have to make sure you are buying the AF version and not MC or MD. (Adorama and B&H also have a few copies in their used listings)

In terms of primes, Sony has an advantage with image stabilization in-body. Not an advantage for rides/parades as either you or the subject are moving, but for general walkaround night shots it's very nice.

In the end, though, with either option you're going to need to know a bit about exposure and your camera to get decent results in these demanding situations. Shooting in full-auto will likely not cut it.

Hope this helps.

 

[kathyell]

Using an employee discount, we can get a Sony DSLR-A200 camera with a 18-70mm zoom lens included for less than $300. (It is a refurb.) This camera got a pretty decent (3.5/5 to 4.5/5) rating at most of the places I've looked. There is a warranty included with the refurbed unit that I trust enough to take a chance on it where that issue is concerned.

I have looked at some images online of the controls for the camera and they somewhat make sense to me as a DSLR newbie. (CNET had some good pictures of different angles of the camera here.) If anyone is nice enough to offer me advice, would you consider peeking at that link to see if it seems like an okay layout to you if you are a more experienced DSLR user?

I'm also pretty happy with the images uploaded to Flickr that are marked as having been taken with this camera. (I know that the quality of those images has as much or more to do with the skill of the photographer, but the camera is a factor as well.) The link to that is here, in case you are curious.

I know that one of the main knocks on Sony DSLRs in general is that there isn't a relatively inexpensive range of additional lenses, but as we will (knock on wood) still have an employee discount for Sony products for the foreseeable future, this is a little bit less of an issue for us specifically. The proprietary nature of the internal memory and USB cables are much more grating to me as I tend to prefer accessories that aren't proprietary, but I can live with that trade-off to procure a sub $300 DSLR.

Does anyone have any compelling advice for me? (Or even better, do you use this camera or one of its big brothers and have some anecdotal advice for me?)

Thank you all so much for your time if you've taken a peek at my post. I love to lurk on this board but I don't have the camera knowledge or electronics firepower to really contribute. Hopefully I will find a good entry-level DSLR and that will change!

 

[disneyboy2003]

It's one thing to look at pictures of a camera online. It's quite another to touch and hold the camera yourself with your own hands. Ultimately, you're the one who'll be using the camera, so *you* have to be comfortable with the camera's "fit".

Although, I guess you really can't go wrong getting a refurbished camera + lens for $300.

The other important thing to purchase is a good Intro to Digital Photography book. There are literally *dozens* of such books at your local bookstore, so browse through them and choose one that fits your reading & learning style.

One other book that's very highly recommended on this message board is "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson (link to Amazon). This book will give you all the basics of photography, regardless of what brand camera you have.

Ultimately, taking great photos is less about what brand or what model DSLR you have. You can take great photos with pretty much any DSLR. Rather, it's your understanding of the basics of photography (and digital photography) that'll help you achieve better photos. That's why I recommended at least getting some of the above books on photography to help you out.

Hope that helps.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I agree that it's nice to be able to actually hold the camera and see how it fits you specifically. Personally, we have Sony DSLR's in the house and think they are intuitive and comfortable. They also are releasing more consumer grade lenses that are comparable in price to other brands so that argument is dying down. And third party manufacturerers are now releasing most of their lenses in the Sony mount just like Canon and Nikon. Sony offers some very good high end lenses as well and gives you the ability to use Minolta autofocus lenses.

The a200 is a great entry level camera that is a generation old but it's not lacking compared to say a Canon Xti or even an Xsi. Since it has a warranty I'd place it at a good value to get into a DSLR. That's pretty much what we did for DH - bought a used A100 to see how he liked it and if he would use it. It's worked out well and someday he'll upgrade but it's been a great learning tool for him in the meantime. What the newest camera's offer now is better high ISO performance and video but that comes at an added price.

FYI - the sony camera's do not natively use the memory stick memory - that would require an adaptor. The A200 uses Compact Flash cards as did all the first Sony alpha's. The newest generation is now using SD cards.

 

[kathyell]

Thank you for weighing in, kat and disneyboy! I appreciate hearing your perspectives. I think checking the camera out in person is a good call and I may venture into Best Buy this afternoon to see if they have one out for me to play with for a few minutes.

I'll check out the book you mentioned, disneyboy. Thank you for the rec. I'm browsing the online catalog for our library system for others too, so I can find another one that makes sense to me and then I'll buy whichever one that is as another reference source.

I was relieved to read here that one of the main features missing from this camera that are in the higher-up models is video, as we have a separate video camera that we're still quite happy with. That is a feature I won't really miss. Higher ISO performance would be great but isn't a must have, as I would be stepping up from a much more sluggish camera with a maximum of ISO 400 and this DSLR goes up to ISO 3200. It might not be as good or function as well as some higher level DSLRs, but I think the ISO functions here in general will seem like an amazing improvement to me coming from my p&s.

Funny how I just assumed that Sony=memory stick. I'm so used to them being ultra-proprietary. I think I'll do some research to figure out which compact flash functions the quickest and plan on getting that and an extra battery if we decide to pull the trigger on this purchase. (And I think we will! I'm very excited!)

Thanks again for contributing your thoughts.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

You're welcome! The problem you will run into is that Best Buy won't have the a200 since it's discontinued. And Sony did a big body design change to their new entry levels (made them much more compact and without much of a grip) so even if you liked those it's not what the A200 would be. It wasn't too long ago that I found Sears (of all places!) had a few of the discontinued Sony's so if you have one of those around that's your better bet to go look. And the A200 design is essentially the same that was used for the A300 & A350 if you found one of those models to check out. The major difference between them is the 300/350 had articulating screens and the A200's is fixed which makes the back of the camera little flatter than the other two and also a bit lighter. The A200 will be more similar to the current entry level Canon's or Nikon's but each brand has their own layout and ergonomics.

 

[kathyell]

I got such helpful responses to my original question that I thought I would stop back in and make a post about what we decided to do. Couldn't find an A200 to look at in person (I tried Sears, but they didn't have one, alas) and then I read a little further into the reviews and learned that there was no live preview on the LCD on the A200. I know that's a weird thing to be a deal-breaker, but I wear glasses (can't wear contacts) and I find trying to use a viewfinder annoying because of the shape of my glasses lenses. I admit it, I'm a little weird.

I started looking up the chain in the Sony range and found the A330, which I believe is the first one up from the entry-level from Sony that offers live preview on the LCD. Happily, I was very impressed with the pricing of this camera with the employee discount we can get. It just happens that we have a Sony Style store about 15 minutes from my house and as this is a current model, I was able to go out to the store and play with the camera for awhile.

I was probably quite annoying at the store putting the camera through its paces, but the person helping me was very accommodating. She even turned the lights off in the home theater room so I could experiment with some low light situations, which also gave me the opportunity to get a feel for the controls as I was changing them to see about low light pics.

It took great shots (you know, of wires and pricing signs and other stuff I took pictures of inside the store) from what I could tell on the preview screen, the controls made sense and seemed to fit my hand pretty well, it wasn't too overly heavy, and the tilting LCD screen was pretty cool. So...I ended up buying it. I actually had to order it to get the full employee discount so I can't hold it in my hot little hands quite yet, but soon I'll have it and I can start to learn.

Thank you all again for your advice!

 

[DznyFan]

Kathyell - congrats on your decision to go Sony. There are several of us here who shoot Sony, very happily. As Kat mentioned, there are more lenses available than before, from several manufacturers. Sigma and Tamron both make a number of decent lenses and some are pretty reasonable! You can find some deals on ebay for older Minolta A-mount lenses like if you wanted some zooms like the beercan or a 50mm f/1.7.

Did you get the kit with the basic kit lens? You can even get some of the Sony add on lenses reasonably, too. I hope you get it soon - enjoy it and be sure to show us some shots on the Sony Alpha thread!

 

[vandort]

Congratulations, Kathyell! Come and visit us on the Sony Alpha thread.

 

[disneyboy2003]

I got such helpful responses to my original question that I thought I would stop back in and make a post about what we decided to do. Couldn't find an A200 to look at in person (I tried Sears, but they didn't have one, alas) and then I read a little further into the reviews and learned that there was no live preview on the LCD on the A200. I know that's a weird thing to be a deal-breaker, but I wear glasses (can't wear contacts) and I find trying to use a viewfinder annoying because of the shape of my glasses lenses. I admit it, I'm a little weird.

Glad to hear you found a camera you're satisfied with. I wasn't sure you'd be able to find an A200 model, since it's a couple years old. At least you found the newer model, and hopefully for not too much more.

"Live View" is pretty much standard in all dSLRs these days. However, I'd caution against depending on Live View for all your photography. I, too, wear glasses, and I use the viewfinder without problems. Using the viewfinder actually helps keep your camera very very steady, especially for low-light photography.

Even though I think I can hold the camera steady using Live View (similar to holding a point-and-shoot camera), it's never steady enough for low-light photography.

Also, if you're trying to take several photos in a row, it's a lot slower in Live View mode. Autofocusing is also lots slower in Live View mode, too. However, I hear that this might not be the case for Sony cameras.

As you look around and see examples of photographers using their dSLR cameras (ex. at sporting events on TV), you'll see that all photographers are using the viewfinder to compose their photos. I think Live View should be used as a convenience if you're trying to take a photo from a strange angle (ex. raising the camera above a crowd) or if you've got lots of time and steadiness to compose a photo (ex. macro photography using a tripod).

Just a thought. Congratulations on your new purchase.

 

[kathyell]

I will only have the basic kit lens when I receive the camera (I did purchase an extra rechargeable battery as my only add-on. I'm a little nervous about not being able to just carry another set of AA's with me as a backup, so it's two batteries for me.) I will be looking for another lens or two sometime fairly soon, but until I start using the camera, I figured I wouldn't know what other type of lenses I might be interested in. Is there a "usual suspect" for a first and second add-on lens?

(For disneyboy: in my admittedly very specific case, finding the A200 wouldn't have been hard as long as I didn't wait too long, as there was a deal on refurbished units running. But I agree, it would have been nigh impossible to find otherwise. I do feel a little bit better buying one that's more updated.)

I will definitely come and hang out on the Alpha thread as soon as I get that camera in my hot little hands!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Congratulations on your new camera! I look forward to seeing pictures!!

As far as the next lens people usually tend to add a telephoto zoom, fast prime, wide angle or all-in-one walk around lens depending on their shooting preference.

For the telephoto something like a 75-300mm or 55-200mm
For fast prime (which is popular on these boards b/c of shooting dark rides at Disney - but it can also be a nice portrait lens) the Sony 50mm 1.8, the Minolta 50mm 1.7 or the Sigma 30mm 1.4 are all nice.
For wide angle something like the Sigma 10-20mm, Sony 11-18mm or Tamron 10-24mm.
And if you don't want to change lenses much but want to have a wide range then a Sony or Tamron 18-250mm.

 

[foolishmortal]

i have an a330l and i wear glasses...I HATE THE LIVE VIEW. I never use it.

love the camera though!

 

[foolishmortal]

as far as other lenses, i love the sony 75 - 300mm telephoto for under 250 at best buy and also go to overstock and they have quite a few mionlta/sony lenses. i bought my wideangle/fisheye fro mthere

 

[kathyell]

Thanks for the lens advice, all!

 

[zackiedawg]

kathy...congrats on the camera! I'm sure you'll have lots of fun with it. I started my DSLR venture with the A300 which is essentially the same as your A330 but with a different body design. It was an excellent camera and served me very well for 2 years, and is now in the hands of my boss who I sold it to, when I decided to get a new Sony A550.

First off, live view with the Sony cameras is indeed different than all others. It does not slow down performance-wise compared to OVF mode. It in fact functions almost identically to a P&S camera - focus speed, shot-to-shot, etc. Pretty cool! Though the others are right - you may find yourself using the viewfinder more anyway just because it's a more stable way to hold the camera and shoot. Even with one of the smaller viewfinders of most DSLRs, your A330 viewfinder is still much bigger than typical P&S viewfinders, if they have any at all. I wear glasses too, and have no problems using the viewfinder. Though live view is great for some occasions, like odd-angle shooting, tripod work, or waist-level shooting.

Get to know some used lens places like KEH.com...if you go to the Minolta Auto-focus section, they have lots of used lenses which will work with your camera. As long as it is Minolta, autofocus (referred to as A-mount), it will work with your Alpha (be sure to avoid used Minolta lenses that say 'vectis' as that is a different mount). It's a bit of a myth that Sony has no cheaper lenses - that can be true when getting into very specific pro-model lenses, where Canon & Nikon have a bigger selection and lower prices in some cases, but for the general consumer and the primary 10-15 lenses that most people would buy, Sony's selection is about the same as the others, and when considering used lens options, about the same price. $200 for a beercan, $80 for a 50mm F1.7, etc...there are lots of good lenses available under $500, even some great new ones (Sigma 30mm F1.4, Tamron 10-24 UWA or Sigma 10-20 UWA).