Son's math teacher and homework notebook

I just don't get where people jump from that the op tries to get rid of scrap paper, gum wrappers, and other trash items that her DS "hoards" and her not being responsible enough to save important items for such things like tax returns. For those of you that do so on a discussion board, do you say things like that to people IRL?

Op asked if saving the math papers is something commonly done. I think she got that the answer is overwhelmingly yes. She acknowledged it and thanked everyone for their replies.

The hoarding assumption came from this:
This goes against the motto in our home.... when you're done with it, throw it out. My son has hoarding tendencies and we are really trying to nip it. He has Asperger's so this is a real concern. He is also extremely unorganized and every day is a struggle.


Did anyone actually suggest that the OP was not responsible enough to save tax returns? I didn't catch that. I think several people (including me) mentioned things that do need to be saved as an example of why we think this could be a useful skill for the OP's son to learn. Even for someone with hoarding tendencies who needs to throw out as much as possible, it's important to learn that some things do need to be kept. If the OP's son can learn to differentiate between keeping wrappers and keeping homework, for example, it might help him later in life when he has to keep up with other important paperwork. It's reasonable to assume that if he can't keep up with the homework right now, and if he can't learn to do so, then he'll have trouble keeping up with other important papers later in life. That's not a reflection on the OP - I'm sure she's very organized. But obviously her son is not and if it is possible for him to learn to be then that is a skill that will serve him well for the rest of his life.

ETA - I do realize that not everyone can learn organizational skills. But if the OP's son is ever likely to be living on his own, he will need to either learn those skills or learn to compensate for the lack of them. Either way, it seems like it would be a good thing to start that process now.
 
My son's math teacher is requiring the kids to keep EVERY homework assignment they do for the quarter (they have homework every night). They are supposed to keep the corrected work in a "math notebook" and at the end of the quarter he will give them a test- "What is the correct answer to #6 on assignment #4?"

This goes against the motto in our home.... when you're done with it, throw it out. My son has hoarding tendencies and we are really trying to nip it. He has Asperger's so this is a real concern. He is also extremely unorganized and every day is a struggle.

I'm going to bring this up at our 504 meeting- but I was just wondering if anyone else had a teacher that had this policy. It seems weird to me.

We did this in my High school math class. we kept homework, and any notes/handouts we had.

That was the easiest 4 tests I've ever had! Plus, it helped keep my notebook organized.
 
I fail to see how this is hoarding. You say when you're done with it, you throw it out. OK fine, but he's not done with it until the end of the quarter. He can throw it out at the end of the quarter. Do you throw away your tax returns after you've done your taxes?

BTW, the motto in our house is follow the directions your teacher gives you.

After reading this....

The hoarding assumption came from this:



Did anyone actually suggest that the OP was not responsible enough to save tax returns? I didn't catch that. I think several people (including me) mentioned things that do need to be saved as an example of why we think this could be a useful skill for the OP's son to learn. Even for someone with hoarding tendencies who needs to throw out as much as possible, it's important to learn that some things do need to be kept. If the OP's son can learn to differentiate between keeping wrappers and keeping homework, for example, it might help him later in life when he has to keep up with other important paperwork. It's reasonable to assume that if he can't keep up with the homework right now, and if he can't learn to do so, then he'll have trouble keeping up with other important papers later in life. That's not a reflection on the OP - I'm sure she's very organized. But obviously her son is not and if it is possible for him to learn to be then that is a skill that will serve him well for the rest of his life.

ETA - I do realize that not everyone can learn organizational skills. But if the OP's son is ever likely to be living on his own, he will need to either learn those skills or learn to compensate for the lack of them. Either way, it seems like it would be a good thing to start that process now.

I'm sorry I reread your post and understood what your point was but got defensive on the op's behalf the first time around. Your point is well taken~
Op's DS will have to either learn or compensate for organizational skills at one point, and helping him start now will hopefully build the foundation to build upon. But I think for now, just starting with the math papers is more than enough. :)
 
After reading this....



I'm sorry I reread your post and understood what your point was but got defensive on the op's behalf the first time around. Your point is well taken~
Op's DS will have to either learn or compensate for organizational skills at one point, and helping him start now will hopefully build the foundation to build upon. But I think for now, just starting with the math papers is more than enough. :)

Ah, I didn't catch that post. To me, it sounds more like she's using that as an example, like she's saying the homework is to the son as the tax returns are to the mom, and so it makes sense that he shouldn't throw the homework out. So the "Do you throw tax returns out?" would logically be answered with a "No", which would be followed by a ". . . then he shouldn't throw the homework out." (Sometimes I tend to overthink these things, apparently!:rotfl:) I didn't take it as her accusing the OP of throwing away tax returns, but I definitely see that it could also be read that way. I know what you mean about being defensive on someone's behalf, though - I do that on here sometimes and once I start feeling that way I do tend to take posts as being more of an attack than they might have been intended to be. It's so hard to convey tone on here!
 

This whole thread just started because I was reading through the papers a pulled out of the bottom of his backpack and saw the requirements and it got me thinking about how this was going to go nightly.

"Jack, where's your math homework?"

"I dunno"

"Did you correct it in class?"

"Yeah"

"Then where is it?"

"I dunno"

"You need to find it"


"BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS!"

"That's why you need to FIND it"

Sometimes it's like trying to nail jello to a tree!;)
 
You mention his 504. Does he have an inclusion teacher or use a resource room? This is something that absolutely should go into an IEP! My son had pretty bad organizational skills and that was written into his IEP for quite a few years. He'd go to a resource room at the end of every day and a teacher would help him organize things. Very helpful. If not, it just may be something you'll always have to help him with on top of everything else you have to do.

Good luck!
 
I definitely think that saving homework is a good thing. I saved ALL of my notes from chiropractic school. Still have them. If I ever unretire and need to take the Boards again, I have my info right there.

Probably one of the toughest classes I took was Spinology, and the teacher had his lectures memorized. He had his notes on paper, which he gave out, and then he read the notes (not in a boring way, it was actually quite nice), and we could LISTEN and really hear, without having to take scads of notes. IN order to study for his class, I would re-write his notes. And in that way I'd heard it, read it, and was now writing it. Most excellent. For my other classes, from the spinology experience, I would re-write my notes every night when I got home, making them pretty and neat. And when midterms came up, I re-wrote them again, and when finals came up, again. I did *very* well in chiro school (and the quarter when I didn't have a TV, I got straight As), and I think it's because I saved ALL of my notes, then studied directly from them.

So I definitely think that keeping homework and tests, and making sure to go back and correct wrong answers and learn WHY he had gotten them wrong, is a valuable tool.


Just last year, I finally said "OK this lack of organization is impossible and must change". I bought cheapie binders during back to school sales, I bought a hole punch, and a stapler. I had tons of files and had played with various ways of keeping those files, but for me, once it's in a file it's GONE. Similar to how your son will put a paper somewhere, and then not find it. The files were attempted for years, because "that's how you do it!" But it wasn't, not for me.

And at long last (I'm 40) I finally found the organizational system that works for me. I still don't have a strong habit of punching holes and putting things in the right place immediately, I'll still end up with a pile of stuff on my desk, but I even have labels on my binders.

Soon I'll be switching to the system that they sell at, hmm, Office Max...the InFile? something like that? system with sturdy plastic labels that slide down onto the outer edge of the binder, so my binders can be all lined up and pretty, with places for everything.

After years of losing every bit of insurance, medical bill, notes on calls to people like ambulance companies that were being a pain, etc etc, I finally finally have ONE place to put things, and it's all labeled. One section for bills, one for EOBs (which I print out), one for bill+EOB+receipt once it's done. I can put my hands on everything.


Would this system work for your son? I don't know. But it's worth putting some, let's face it, MONEY into it to find what does work for him. File cabinets? Binders? Boxes from Ikea that he can stack up? Who knows? All I know is that after decades of losing everything, I'm finally a more organized person.

I also keep lots of things I shouldn't. My bridal magazine collection was immense. I finally decided that I could go through each of them one last time, take out pages I thought were awesome, then tear off the cover of the Martha Stewart and British ones, and then recycle them. We've been married 7 years, and I only did this last year. they had no use, I couldn't even tell you what I got from having them, but I felt like I needed them...it took all that time to find something that I could deal with, some way to get rid of them without upsetting me.


So finding those little ways *earlier* rather than *later* really seems an amazing thing to do. Especially since it's a pretty big deal with him.



I don't see the point in saving the already graded homework.

Correct wrong answers, solidify the learning, and to study from. That's even without getting into what the teacher will do for the tests. (which, I must say, sound like really easy tests!)


You're right about that, he'll keep them- in his backpack, in the bottom of his locker, all over his room. He'll keep them, but have NO IDEA where they are.

I think I have a 3 ring binder upstairs I can use for this.

Good good. Just figure out what he might need, what might work for him. And then support him into getting into a system, and honestly I'd say to support that for as long as it takes! I had no support, though I had plenty of people on my case about losing things and needing to be more organized (and their answers were almost always to just throw things away, which I refused to do because most of the things I keep I do have an actual OR perceived need for...I just needed to organize it more). So support is good.


To Jack EVERYTHING is important- it's very frustrating.

Then he's got to learn to organize it. right now, in your home, it seems that throwing things away is the answer. But when he does get out on his own, he might not want to follow that rule, and so having a good solid system that works for him will be good! You have lots of time before it's that time, which sounds like it might be needed with him. :goodvibes




He really doesn't have a routine. Routines/schedules freak him out. It makes school the HARDEST thing he does.

I know the feeling from personal experience with my own self.


Throughout my daughter's education, she has had to correct the mistakes she makes on homework and tests, regardless if it is required by the teacher. It is required by me. I want to be certain that she understands where the mistake occurs and why.

Organization is a skill that we all need. It is certainly one of the life skills needed for success. Having your DS be organized will never hurt him, and will only help him. When he gets home from school, have him empty the backpack and together begin the organization process.

I totally agree!


Do you throw away a recipe after you've made it once? Most likely not. You probably keep your recipes tucked away in a neat place where they can be accessed when you need them. Think of his homework the same way.

I like the analogy! Uhoh, I need a system for my printed out recipes! Right now they are in piles in various places. I think a trip to Office Max is in my future. ;)

I've known people who were so opposed to hoarding that they threw everything away - receipts, bank statements, warranty information, etc. - and that makes everything much more complicated.

That's the sort of thing DH does when he goes on a cleaning binge. After a few mis-steps, he now puts the things he wants to throw out (that aren't specifically and exactly HIS) into my desk area, and I deal with them.

I do see what you mean and I certainly DO NOT want to do this for him- but honestly I'm not sure if this is something he can be taught. We have struggled since day 1 with organization. He loses binders and textbooks- let alone a single sheet of paper.

I know many think Asperger's is the diagnosis du jour, but trust me it's real. Thirty years ago my son would have just been considered the "weird kid" by kids and adults. He has an IQ of 138 and the teachers admit if they tested him orally he would pass everything with flying colors (he's a sponge) but ask him to write it down and he's done.

It's frustrating to say the least. He has lots of potential but it's hard to tap into.

I never thought I would find a way of organizing my stuff. Don't give up. Even if it were 30 years ago and he were the "weird kid", he'd still need to be organized. And he's going to need to be organized as an adult.

With his plan, can't he be tested orally? I know in college they would do that for people who couldn't meet the testing time limits for various reasons. Sounds like the way I studied, with writing and re-writing, wouldn't work for him, BUT what if he had you reading the problems to him, so he could learn like that?

My brother, who is stinkin' brilliant and 3 years in school behind me, had two advantages. One, he's really smart. And two, he helped me study. And as he helped me, he was memorizing the info. So when he got into the class 3 years later, he knew it from helping me. (it's good to be the younger one!) So I know that one can learn by hearing (he would ask me the questions, I would answer), and it might be a great way for him to study, even if *reading* the papers doesn't work for him all that well. So you guys keep the papers because it's the rule, then to study you break them out and have a little study group. :goodvibes

Perhaps I'm a bit overprotective when reading comments that insinuate that my BFF is not doing everything in her power to raise a functional and productive son.

Sometimes it's also good to let outsiders toss in their 2 cents, though. My brother, blissfully childfree and a person that actively disliked children until he decided he liked my son, has some of the best ideas, and knows my son, in some ways, better than I do. If I didn't let him give insights, I would have lost out on a few brilliant moments.




Op good luck!
 
So, do you guys think I should just do it for a week- make sure he "gets it" and then leave it up to him OR do it with him/for him all quarter?

I would not "leave it to him" if he has serious organizational skills. It is something that I would work with him on each and every night -- together.
 
My son just started middle school and every teacher has this rule. In fact, every student is required to keep identical binders for every class. The first page has a table of contents that they have to keep up-to-date. The teachers keep a running list of contents on easel boards in their classrooms. When the kids get a new assignment sheet, handout or returned homework, they add it to the table of contents, number the page and put it in their binders. Everything they do in class will be indexed, numbered and stored in their binders.

The teachers explained the entire system at back-to-school night last night. I've been going through my son's binder with him every few days to make sure he has it updated. He seems to have the system down so I'm not worried about it. They will have periodic binder checks and will be graded on how well they keep things organized. I think it's a great system. Otherwise, my son would have things scattered everywhere and toss things that he'll need in the future. It's like his first foray into becoming organized which I think will help in other areas of his life for years to come.
 
I used to give notebook checks like what yours child's teacher gives until our department was told it was not standards based grading--well, actually it was part of our standards, but I digress. If your son has a 504, then this should be addressed in your next 504 meeting--or call a 504 meeting if one isn't scheduled soon. There are things that can be done to accomplish the goals of the teacher, student and parent. Everything will be ok--you're doing your job as a parent!:thumbsup2 Just keep working with your son and the school. I've done everything but stand on my head to help my students...I have a feeling the head stands are going to be coming soon, though. A reasonable teacher will work out the details given the situation. Hang in there!:goodvibes
 
Another mom of an Aspie here; same gender and same age. Mine isn't a hoarder, but I have another point for you to consider: the papers may be needed for later therapy.

It sounds like your DS has some of the same executive function issues that are common with most Aspies; they tend to have real issues with organization and "natural" routine. (For the onlookers, this means things like knowing that in the morning in the first two hours that you are up, you ALWAYS need to use the toilet, shave and brush your teeth -- every single day.)

The thing is, every therapist DS has ever had has asked for copies of his school papers when trying to plan his therapy -- they need examples of what he is failing to do. In our case, failing to put his name on his paper, not dating it, etc. What we do with them is keep them in a binder in hard copy for the grading period, and then scan them to be kept on a backup hard drive in case a teacher or therapist needs them for planning reasons. All report cards and teacher emails are saved the same way.

Several people replying to this post have used this terminology when referring to their own child. "Aspie" makes it sound like you are talking about a strange breed of dog. Your child has a disorder called Asperger's. Your child is not their diagnosis. How can we expect these children to reach their full potential when they are being trained to think of themselves in this way?

Just my2cents
 
Some replies are truly either clueless or intentionally vicious. Autisim and Asperger's are on spectrums - meaning you may have a child who has tendencies but can function or a child that is overwhelmed by the condition. Working in a school, I see many stops along the way. My heart goes out to these children, they are either left behind or ridiculed in many circumstances. The problem that I have with much of public education is, as another poster stated, all the holes are round. We have proven that people have different learning styles and that there are left brain/right brain/whole brain thinkers who have differing skills and handicaps. While many PS systems give great lip service to 504's and IEP's many times it is forgotten or talked about snidely after the meetings. I've heard these conversations amongst teachers first hand. I can understand the OP's frustration - my 11 yo manages very well in day to day life but struggles with school because it moves at a much faster pace then he thinks. As a fast paced learner/worker myself I understand the teacher's frustration with this, as his mom it breaks my heart. My child will be a wonderful husband or father should he choose those things. He will know how to take care of his home and is a dedicated worker but that doesn't mean all paths are open to him. I worry about his education as he ages. I have read about high schools that focus on the arts or on are mainly vo-techs that prepare the kids for careers much like a college will prepare a child to be a doctor or lawyer or teacher......I, many times, don't see college in his future. Not because he isn't bright but because he is burning out from the constant derision of teachers. We are dealing with a binder system too and it is a headache. Papers rip out or he is slow flipping the dividers and the teacher yells at him to hurry up so he pops it in the wrong spot, forgets it, she counts it wrong because the paper is in the wrong section or fell out. I hope this our last year in public school. He needs learning style tailored education and we need to either opt for homeschool or find a private school. I would excel at this binder system, it fits my Type A need for organization and rules, for him it isn't such a great fit. I think it a bit much to expect a child to look back over a SEMSTER or QUARTER of work for testing. That is what reviews are for in grade school. Yes, they may need to use these systems in college but it is a skill that should be taught step-by-step while many teachers feel that the kids should be doing it by the time they come to school.

I will say papers can come in handy when questioning a grade. My child's first grade teacher forgot to record a test grade and wanted him to retake the test 1/2 a year later. I brought the BOX of graded papers to her room during a private meeting and we sat down and found the paper. She was shocked and said "I can't believe you have this." She also never brought up re-taking anything again. That is the sole time I've found it useful. IMO if you are grading papers you need to record the grade right then or clippie them and store them to be recorded ASAP, if you can't stay on the correct line use a ruler as a guide, if you can't manage a grade book maybe you shouldn't teach. That isn't meant to be rude but I see some terribly unorganized teachers at work and their students suffer for it. I also see an overwhelming amount of worksheets being given to kids as busy work and the teachers taking grades on these instead of teaching a meaningful lesson and using a quiz or review sheet. Remember reading the chapter, or having it read to you, as a class and then WRITING the 4 or 5 questions and their answers on a sheet of notebook paper? Now it is all fill in the blank or multiple choice sheets, anywhere from 10 to 25 ?'s a sheet, and my kids bring home a truckload of work at the end of the week. I have 3, if I saved every stinking paper I'd need another house to put it all in. I don't even save all the cutesy crafts and mementos, they make me nuts. I have a finite amount of space allotted for storage and either throw something out to make room for another item I've decided to save or it doesn't get saved. Thankfully we have only had the one totally irresponsible teacher, if there weren't some teachers that were on top of it and the fact that I have, since that day, requested elementary teachers I know to be organized and dedicated I would be foaming at the mouth nuts.
 
I used to give notebook checks like what yours child's teacher gives until our department was told it was not standards based grading--well, actually it was part of our standards, but I digress. If your son has a 504, then this should be addressed in your next 504 meeting--or call a 504 meeting if one isn't scheduled soon. There are things that can be done to accomplish the goals of the teacher, student and parent. Everything will be ok--you're doing your job as a parent!:thumbsup2 Just keep working with your son and the school. I've done everything but stand on my head to help my students...I have a feeling the head stands are going to be coming soon, though. A reasonable teacher will work out the details given the situation. Hang in there!:goodvibes

:thumbsup2 THIS!!! This is the purpose of intervention plans. To tailor expectations based on ability. I hope this doesn't offend the OP or anyone else but I find much of education for children with disorders or delays to be cruel. We have a severly autistic child in our school, he is easily overstimulated and is quite large so he can be a danger if he throws himself around. They used to bring him into the workroom and make him "buy" a coke for the teacher. The noise of the coins and can dropping would send him over the edge. Then he'd get screamed at. I pointed out one day that perhaps it was more than he could bear and was told, point blank and with a straight face, that it was a skill he must develop. What? Getting a coke from a machine? Why? This child is unlikely to ever even be functional enough to live in a group home. If his parents can't handle him he will likely have to go to some form of institution. Leave him be! It is supposed to be part of his therapy. Therapy should be beneficial and, at some point, produce results. It is four years since this started and he is as tortured by the machine now as he was the first time I witnessed this atrocity. If this were my son he would go home FORTHWITH and not return.
 
Several people replying to this post have used this terminology when referring to their own child. "Aspie" makes it sound like you are talking about a strange breed of dog. Your child has a disorder called Asperger's. Your child is not their diagnosis. How can we expect these children to reach their full potential when they are being trained to think of themselves in this way?

Just my2cents
appreciate your 2 cents. My children are well aware that they are not their diagnosis. However their diagnosis is part of who they are. I find that it is people who consider themselves "normal" who have the problem getting past the diagnosis not the people who actually have Asperger's Aspie is a term that many people who have Asperger's call themselves. It is a word that is generally embraced by them not a term that is derogatory. I am going to guess that you do not have a child on the spectrum or are on the spectrum yourself so you may find it hard to understand. You could probably do a search for groups throughout the country and message boards online run by people with A.S. (Asperger's Syndrome) or their families with active members who have A.S. . Many of these group members will call themselves "an aspie". It is a term that shows they embrace who they are. We do not see this as a "disorder". I am not criticizing you here but hoping you will try to understand. Saying that people who have Apsperger's have a "Disorder" as you termed it is far more derogatory than saying someone is an Aspie. Saying someone has a disorder sounds as if one believes that there is something WRONG with that person. Where as Aspies and their families do not feel that there is something "wrong"with themselves or their family member but rather they have a different way of thinking and viewing the world. Aspies are some of the most successful, loyal and committed people you would ever meet. If that is a disorder then it is one I enjoy having.

I can tell you that I have no doubt that my children will meet their full potential. In fact, all my children are very well liked by their peers and in our community. They work hard in school and are often making the top scores in their classes. They have been told from day one that having AS is not an excuse to fail but a reason that they will succeed. They are proud of who they are and they are not ashamed to be aspies. In fact it is a part of their being that they are proud of. Many of the traits Aspies have are exactly what makes them successful, contributing people. Do we have challenges sure but so do so called "normal people" . Please do not think of people with Asperger's as having a "disorder" Often times it is that mindset that is the hardest hurdle for people with Asperger's to conquer not any trait or personality that they have themselves.

I hope you understand now that by no means are people who call themselves or their family members Aspies lessening their value but on the contrary they are embracing who they are and it is something that we are not ashamed of, nor should we be.
 


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