Someday I fear health insurance will be a thing of the past.

[eliza61]

Ok, so you have proven that Americans without health insurance come to your country to get treatment and I have proven that Canadians with health insurance come to our country to get superior treatment. Good to know that if I do lose my health insurance, I can just cross the border to get some for free. I don't know how your country can keep your system viable with this abuse by Americans. This is another reason why Universal Heath Care would never work here in the USA. We would be picking up the tab for most of South America given how lax our government is with immigration (let alone our own deadbeat citizens who refuse to work and/or pay taxes).

LOL,

Not gonna comment on the south american thing but exactly who do you think picks up the tab now for all uninsured people or as you call them "dead beat" citizens who refuse to work. ?

Or do you believe they never get sick? See thats the fallacy of the "I got insurance so what ever happens to every one else doesn't effect me".

About 17% of our GNP (the countries budget funded by tax dollars goes to health assistance) and every year that % is getting higher and higher. So more and more of your tax dollars goes to fund health care. Next, do you really think a hospital over charges your insurance company for nothing. Most hospitals are "for profit" entities. meaning they are in business to make money. If the % of uninsured, indigant people coming to the hospital for care grows the hospital passes on that cost to the insurance company, who then pass on that cost to YOU (because insurance companies are also for profit entities, whos jobs are not to get you healthy, theres no money in that but to make a profit).

NOw here is the vicious cycle of it. As premiumns go higher and higher, you have more and more people who can't afford it, which means more and more people on assistance, which means more and more of our GNP going to health care. Start all over again.

I am not defending UHC but I will no longer support a system that is inefficient, expensive, leaves the most vunerable (children and elderly) unprotected & is nothing more than a caste system, if you have tons of money or expensive insurance you get good health care, if you do not you're out of luck.
And even you cannot tell me that the quality of care in this country is not based on money.

 

[nunzia]

Ok, so you have proven that Americans without health insurance come to your country to get treatment and I have proven that Canadians with health insurance come to our country to get superior treatment. Good to know that if I do lose my health insurance, I can just cross the border to get some for free. I don't know how your country can keep your system viable with this abuse by Americans. This is another reason why Universal Heath Care would never work here in the USA. We would be picking up the tab for most of South America given how lax our government is with immigration (let alone our own deadbeat citizens who refuse to work and/or pay taxes).

Well, it's only fair for us to go north for free health care since our neighbors to the south get to come north for their free health care...

 

[ameraumi]

I think the point was the assertion that implantable insulin pumps are available in Europe but not readily available in the US. As far as I am aware (and I am open to correction), implantable insulin pumps are used more for research purposes in the US. A different source for you (bolding mine):

"An implantable pump was created in the 1980′s but there were difficulties. The implantable pump was placed just under the skin and it was clearly visible. There was a projection from the surgery site much like having a hockey puck placed under the skin. The pump could be implanted in the abdomen or on the chest of the pump user. This pump was refilled with a large-gauge needle and the user carried a programming unit and held the unit over the pump to deliver instructions for refilling the pump. Patients could self-administer a bolus dose with a remote-control device. These pumps are still used on an experimental basis in the United States but are available overseas."


http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?p=287

I personally know of 3 people with pumps now. My uncle had a pump inserted 5 yrs ago here in IN. I also know of 2 school aged children that now have pumps, also done here in IN (a then 5 yr old girl and 10 yr old boy). Both were done a few yrs ago. I do not believe it is considered experimental by any means now.

Back to the topic, I am one of those the fear how expensive health ins/health care will become. We are already paying higher premiums for less coverage for SO and my baby. Thankfully myself and older children are still covered under my late-DH's health ins plan and do not have to pay a premium. But that will end in 2.5 yrs and then I will be faced with finding affordable insurance.

 

[Bonnie151]

I personally know of 3 people with pumps now. My uncle had a pump inserted 5 yrs ago here in IN. I also know of 2 school aged children that now have pumps, also done here in IN (a then 5 yr old girl and 10 yr old boy). Both were done a few yrs ago. I do not believe it is considered experimental by any means now.

I've posted about this above, but I don't believe we're talking about the same thing. I'm talking about implantable insulin pumps (as stated in my post) which are available in Europe. Medtronic itself says that they aren't approved in the US: http://www.loop-blog.com/Blog_Full_Post?id=a09C000000COu39IAD

 

[fakereadhed]

LOL,

Not gonna comment on the south american thing but exactly who do you think picks up the tab now for all uninsured people or as you call them "dead beat" citizens who refuse to work. ?

Or do you believe they never get sick? See thats the fallacy of the "I got insurance so what ever happens to every one else doesn't effect me".

About 17% of our GNP (the countries budget funded by tax dollars goes to health assistance) and every year that % is getting higher and higher. So more and more of your tax dollars goes to fund health care. Next, do you really think a hospital over charges your insurance company for nothing. Most hospitals are "for profit" entities. meaning they are in business to make money. If the % of uninsured, indigant people coming to the hospital for care grows the hospital passes on that cost to the insurance company, who then pass on that cost to YOU (because insurance companies are also for profit entities, whos jobs are not to get you healthy, theres no money in that but to make a profit).

NOw here is the vicious cycle of it. As premiumns go higher and higher, you have more and more people who can't afford it, which means more and more people on assistance, which means more and more of our GNP going to health care. Start all over again.

I am not defending UHC but I will no longer support a system that is inefficient, expensive, leaves the most vunerable (children and elderly) unprotected & is nothing more than a caste system, if you have tons of money or expensive insurance you get good health care, if you do not you're out of luck.
And even you cannot tell me that the quality of care in this country is not based on money.

Where are you getting your information from? Most are nonprofits.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/10/nonprofit-hospitals_n_923364.html

 

[fakereadhed]

I'm really trying hard not to be completely thick here but all articles I've found state that the implantable insulin pump is not available in the US, and from personal experience (aunt) you'd need to travel to Europe to get one. I'm aware that insulin pumps are available in the US, but these are the ones that are inserted just below the skin, aren't they?

ETA: This is from United Healthcare's policy May 2011 (bolding mine):

"External insulin pumps that deliver insulin by continuous subcutaneous infusion are
proven for treating patients with diabetes. Disposable external insulin pumps are
considered equivalent to standard insulin pumps.
Implantable insulin pumps are investigational and unproven.

No implantable insulin pumps have received U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval
at this time. While some preliminary studies reported improved glycemic control and fewer
episodes of hypoglycemia in carefully selected patients, complications such as catheter blockage
and infection were observed. Larger, randomized controlled trials are needed to determine the
long term impact of implantable insulin pumps on diabetes management."

https://www.unitedhealthcareonline....es/Cont_Glucose_Monitor_and_Insulin_Pumps.pdf

Dean Kamen did invent the insulin pump, but he didn't invent the implantable insulin pump.

You are right- we were talking about 2 completely different things. The new pump has special type of fast acting insulin and more closely mimics a functioning pancreas. Fascinating stuff!

 

[CdnCarrie]

Ok, so you have proven that Americans without health insurance come to your country to get treatment and I have proven that Canadians with health insurance come to our country to get superior treatment. Good to know that if I do lose my health insurance, I can just cross the border to get some for free. I don't know how your country can keep your system viable with this abuse by Americans. This is another reason why Universal Heath Care would never work here in the USA. We would be picking up the tab for most of South America given how lax our government is with immigration (let alone our own deadbeat citizens who refuse to work and/or pay taxes).

I'm sure that there are some Canadians that have gone south to get healthcare. In my 40 years I have yet to meet one however.

It's not as common as you think it is. That is my point. Sure there are snowbirds that end up using the U.S. healthcare system. Perhaps some people in a border towns. But it's not as common as you make it out to be. The myth that Canadians all head south is an American fallacy made up to help with the socialist health care scare tactics by your politicians. Glad to see you're so gullible.

And at least we pay if we go down.......we don't steal like your countrymen....

 

[Chris the CPA]

I have come to the conclusion that Chris the CPA with his low post count is nothing but trolling and looking to stir the pot. I wouldn't give him the time or effort of responding. Remarks making it sound like people in the US do not know where Minnesota is is a but he/she does is a clear sign of someone trying to make trouble.

Bonnie, Thank you for the intelligent posting of that information.

If you are as smart as you think you are you would notice that I have been a member since 2006. Just because I have not run my mouth with incorrect information does not mean I am a troll. You tried to transfer knowledge which you didn't have and are mad because I called you on it.

 

[Chris the CPA]

I've posted about this above, but I don't believe we're talking about the same thing. I'm talking about implantable insulin pumps (as stated in my post) which are available in Europe. Medtronic itself says that they aren't approved in the US: http://www.loop-blog.com/Blog_Full_Post?id=a09C000000COu39IAD

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00298740

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8861991

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21470000

You are correct. They currently in clinical trials here in the States.

 

[Chris the CPA]

I'm sure that there are some Canadians that have gone south to get healthcare. In my 40 years I have yet to meet one however.

It's not as common as you think it is. That is my point. Sure there are snowbirds that end up using the U.S. healthcare system. Perhaps some people in a border towns. But it's not as common as you make it out to be. The myth that Canadians all head south is an American fallacy made up to help with the socialist health care scare tactics by your politicians. Glad to see you're so gullible.

And at least we pay if we go down.......we don't steal like your countrymen....

Do you think your Government does not make Americans who come up pay? I would bet if you don't have Canadian insurance card they ask you how you will pay.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Do you think your Government does not make Americans who come up pay? I would bet if you don't have Canadian insurance card they ask you how you will pay.

Did you not read the link I gave to the old article discussing the black market OHIP cards?

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/20/w...lth-care-in-canada.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

I was just making a point to the smug poster that is insistent that all us Canadians flee to the U.S. for healthcare. We don't. And sometimes it's even the other way around.

This article is outdated and I do believe different cards have been issued over the last decade to stop the fraud.

 

[Chris the CPA]

Did you not read the link I gave to the old article discussing the black market OHIP cards?

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/20/w...lth-care-in-canada.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

I was just making a point to the smug poster that is insistent that all us Canadians flee to the U.S. for healthcare. We don't. And sometimes it's even the other way around.

This article is outdated and I do believe different cards have been issued over the last decade to stop the fraud.

I did not read it but I have read it now. It is a very interesting article even if it is outdated. I think everyone that has been discussing this issue on the board should read it because not only does it discuss fraud it also discusses many of the other aspects of the Canadian system.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I did not read it but I have read it now. It is a very interesting article even if it is outdated. I think everyone that has been discussing this issue on the board should read it because not only does it discuss fraud it also discusses many of the other aspects of the Canadian system.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

You're welcome. And I think threads like this are eye openers to all the myths that exist on both sides of the borders. Neither system is perfect but neither are evil either. That has been my point all along. That there are several myths that exist and you can't believe them all whichever side of the 49 you live on.

 

[Bonnie151]

You are right- we were talking about 2 completely different things. The new pump has special type of fast acting insulin and more closely mimics a functioning pancreas. Fascinating stuff!

Yeah, I was beginning to think I was going completely mad when all these posters started assuring me that the pumps that I'm talking about are available in the US! I only know about this because I have an aunt in the US who is completely against socialised medicine and is *horrified* that she could get one if she lived in France but not at home - she's been told a few times that unless she gets onto a trial, tough luck.

Off the diabetes topic, my DH would move to Florida in a heartbeat but (other than the fact that I don't have any desire to live in the US...) the cost of insurance/healthcare completely puts me off the idea. The NHS is far from perfect, and I'm very glad I also have private insurance through DH's work, but it's served me well. The only delay I have experience of is when my mother was supposed to have her teeth pulled out last December. We ended up with snowstorms that week and all non-emergency ambulance transport was cancelled. I doubt that a couple of feet of snow would have cancelled her transport back at her home in New England!She then unfortunately came down with a virus that left her too weak to undergo surgery, so technically she waited 9 months to have her teeth removed.

On the other hand, when she fractured her pelvis over here she was operated on immediately. I can compare that to her fracturing her femur in MA and being doped up on morphine for a week as more urgent cases were prioritised over her. It may be that she had better treatment here because it was a larger hospital or because she had no one to "champion" her case in the US, but you get waits here for some things and you get waits in the US for others. The NHS plus private insurance works for me.

The UK also has lots of "health tourists" who come over for inexpensive treatment, but at the same time you get the odd story in the papers about someone who is trying to raise $x to go to America for some treatment that isn't available here. Then you get other stories about people going from the UK to Poland or Spain or even India for fast inexpensive treatment, so again it all goes round in circles.

 

[angwill]

If you are as smart as you think you are you would notice that I have been a member since 2006. Just because I have not run my mouth with incorrect information does not mean I am a troll. You tried to transfer knowledge which you didn't have and are mad because I called you on it.

Really now. You have been running your mouth with incorrect information about regular insuling pump when I was talking about the implantable one the whole time. My neice had one implanted in Germany over 10 years ago so there is nothing inncorrect about my information. I don't care when you became a member when you try to prove yourself correct with incorrect information and putting people down by trying to belittle them by asking me to research where minnestoa is that is stiring the pot and acting like a troll.

No implantable insulin pumps have received U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval
at this time. While some preliminary studies reported improved glycemic control and fewer
episodes of hypoglycemia in carefully selected patients, complications such as catheter blockage
and infection were observed. Larger, randomized controlled trials are needed to determine the
long term impact of implantable insulin pumps on diabetes management."

 

[angwill]

I'm really trying hard not to be completely thick here but all articles I've found state that the implantable insulin pump is not available in the US, and from personal experience (aunt) you'd need to travel to Europe to get one. I'm aware that insulin pumps are available in the US, but these are the ones that are inserted just below the skin, aren't they?

ETA: This is from United Healthcare's policy May 2011 (bolding mine):

"External insulin pumps that deliver insulin by continuous subcutaneous infusion are
proven for treating patients with diabetes. Disposable external insulin pumps are
considered equivalent to standard insulin pumps.
Implantable insulin pumps are investigational and unproven.

No implantable insulin pumps have received U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval
at this time. While some preliminary studies reported improved glycemic control and fewer
episodes of hypoglycemia in carefully selected patients, complications such as catheter blockage
and infection were observed. Larger, randomized controlled trials are needed to determine the
long term impact of implantable insulin pumps on diabetes management."

https://www.unitedhealthcareonline....es/Cont_Glucose_Monitor_and_Insulin_Pumps.pdf

Dean Kamen did invent the insulin pump, but he didn't invent the implantable insulin pump.

Thank you for clearifying this as the implanted pump is the one I have been talking about from the beginning.

 

[Bonnie151]

Thank you for clearifying this as the implanted pump is the one I have been talking about from the beginning.

No worries, I thought "Whoo hoo! A specialised subject that I know something about!" What I do find slightly irritating is the perception that the US is the be all and end all of R&D. It's a bit offensive to the thousands of scientists/doctors etc who are working worldwide on medical developments. I kind of get it - news tends to revolve around your own country. E.g. if you Google "artificial pancreas development" you'll get American articles which concentrate on the US: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/27/us-scientists-artificial-pancreas-idUSTRE75Q3TI20110627 but if you do a British search you'll get British articles which focus on our development work: http://www.londonpressservice.org.uk/lps/sciencetechnology/item/128816.html

I'm not saying the US isn't the leader (I'm not saying it is either. ), but they're certainly not the only ones researching and developing medical advancements.

Off my soapbox now.

 

[angwill]

No worries, I thought "Whoo hoo! A specialised subject that I know something about!" What I do find slightly irritating is the perception that the US is the be all and end all of R&D. It's a bit offensive to the thousands of scientists/doctors etc who are working worldwide on medical developments. I kind of get it - news tends to revolve around your own country. E.g. if you Google "artificial pancreas development" you'll get American articles which concentrate on the US: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/27/us-scientists-artificial-pancreas-idUSTRE75Q3TI20110627 but if you do a British search you'll get British articles which focus on our development work: http://www.londonpressservice.org.uk/lps/sciencetechnology/item/128816.html

I'm not saying the US isn't the leader (I'm not saying it is either. ), but they're certainly not the only ones researching and developing medical advancements.

Off my soapbox now.

I agree completely. Thanks again.

 

[CdnCarrie]

No worries, I thought "Whoo hoo! A specialised subject that I know something about!" What I do find slightly irritating is the perception that the US is the be all and end all of R&D. It's a bit offensive to the thousands of scientists/doctors etc who are working worldwide on medical developments. I kind of get it - news tends to revolve around your own country. E.g. if you Google "artificial pancreas development" you'll get American articles which concentrate on the US: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/27/us-scientists-artificial-pancreas-idUSTRE75Q3TI20110627 but if you do a British search you'll get British articles which focus on our development work: http://www.londonpressservice.org.uk/lps/sciencetechnology/item/128816.html

I'm not saying the US isn't the leader (I'm not saying it is either. ), but they're certainly not the only ones researching and developing medical advancements.

Off my soapbox now.

Agreed. That is what people were getting up in arms about. All these generalizations that all citizens with socialized medicine come to the U.S. for treatment, that all nations with socialized medicine have long waiting lists, that only America does research, etc.

It's just all fear mongering from the U.S. politicians or whoever. Funny how gullible some Americans are.

 

[DISNEYSIX]

I was just making a point to the smug poster that is insistent that all us Canadians flee to the U.S. for healthcare. We don't. And sometimes it's even the other way around.

Where did I ever state that "all Canadians flee to the U.S. for heatlh care"? I simply stated that many foreigners come to the U.S. for emergency treatments instead of waiting forever in their own countries. Moreover, our privately funded care is superior than publicly funded care any day of the week. Again, I want quality affordable health care for all but I don't believe the government is the answer but rather the problem.