Solo: A Star Wars Story

[umichigan10]

Yeah this over politicizing is a problem in this generation's Disney films; from Zootopia to The Last Jedi. The only franchise that has mostly avoided it is the Marvel films. ...but if it's a Disney film, or a Lucasfilm product, you can bet your movie ticket that you're going to have to slog through some social justice signaling.

I don’t want this thread to devolve into political bickering, but honestly Disney is one of the most progressive companies out there and has been for a long time. This is their identity. If it bothers you that much it’s probably not a company you should be following then.

Also how is marvel not political? Black panther was incredibly political, as was Spider-Man: homecoming (the little guy vs the big guy narrative). It’s there, even if you don’t notice it

 

[BrianL]

I will say I think the message has become a bit heavy handed in the last couple of films. TLJ was pretty transparent with their message and I honestly like it more of a nuanced look at things where the message is there but more hidden in plain sight

I think we tend to feel a message is more heavy-handed when we don't agree with it. Otherwise we either applaud it or hardly notice it since we tend to live in our own spheres of perception. I really didn't think anything in TLJ was that overt. I honestly don't even see the often-cited feminist agenda (at least not beyond showing female characters as capable fighters). Yeah, they tossed in a jab at the military-industrial complex, but it's nothing out of place in that universe. The EU has long established the corporations that build star fighters and such. I find that part interesting.

If TLJ has a message to me, it's perhaps a slightly defeatist one, though it is about remaining strong in the face of certain defeat. Now, personally, this is why I like TLJ less than other SW movies, because I tend to like my heroes to never accept defeat - but this is also the middle part of the trilogy, and so it goes that it must be darkest before the dawn, though how that dawn plays out will have a large impact on my like of the movie in the end. The middle of each trilogy is always my least favorite.

 

[jknezek]

I have zero problems with the strong female leads in TLJ. I very much wish Admiral Holdo had been smart enough to use a droid to pilot the ship. I thought she was going to be the new Leia and was looking forward to it.

I do believe they went out of their way to make all the major male roles idiots or unlikeable or worse. Poe takes a beating and is made to look the fool about 3 times. Finn is set up to be a coward. Skywalker is turned into a coward. The double crossing dirty arms dealer is of course a sleazy male. Then of course all the true bad guys are male.

Flip it over and Rey is a prodigal saint. Rose is a saint. Holdo and Rose's sister are self sacrificing saints. Leia is the non-cowardly revered elder stateswoman with magical powers.

It was as subtle as a brick to the head. Where JJ set up a male character to be positive pieces, Johnson made them buffoons or cowards and then went overboard the other direction. And then even the one good First Order woman, whatever her name, was sidelined and eliminated in a relatively minor battle with not too much effort. Can't have any bad girls, right Rian? Uggh it was terrible.

The OT had Luke and Han, but Leia was awesome in her own right. Rey is solid, though I agree a bit Mary Sue. But the incessant beating of the drum in TLJ is bad. A little balance would have gone a long way.

 

[Moliphino]

Also how is marvel not political? Black panther was incredibly political, as was Spider-Man: homecoming (the little guy vs the big guy narrative). It’s there, even if you don’t notice it

And Winter Soldier. That was pretty political.

 

[BrianL]

I have zero problems with the strong female leads in TLJ. I very much wish Admiral Holdo had been smart enough to use a droid to pilot the ship. I thought she was going to be the new Leia and was looking forward to it.

I do believe they went out of their way to make all the major male roles idiots or unlikeable or worse. Poe takes a beating and is made to look the fool about 3 times. Finn is set up to be a coward. Skywalker is turned into a coward. The double crossing dirty arms dealer is of course a sleazy male. Then of course all the true bad guys are male.

Flip it over and Rey is a prodigal saint. Rose is a saint. Holdo and Rose's sister are self sacrificing saints. Leia is the non-cowardly revered elder stateswoman with magical powers.

It was as subtle as a brick to the head. Where JJ set up a male character to be positive pieces, Johnson made them buffoons or cowards and then went overboard the other direction. And then even the one good First Order woman, whatever her name, was sidelined and eliminated in a relatively minor battle with not too much effort. Can't have any bad girls, right Rian? Uggh it was terrible.

The OT had Luke and Han, but Leia was awesome in her own right. Rey is solid, though I agree a bit Mary Sue. But the incessant beating of the drum in TLJ is bad. A little balance would have gone a long way.

I have to disagree somewhat there. Poe is shown as brash, but also charismatic and likable, a bit like some other beloved SW characters. Sure, he needed to learn a lesson in leadership, and he does. It's just a character arc. Holdo on the other hand comes off as smug and unlikable. She handles her people poorly, hence why the majority of the crew sided with Poe (even the females). Holdo was playing it too close to the vest for no other reason than to aggrandize herself. In the end, it is Leia who teaches Poe the real lesson, not Holdo. Holdo does make the sacrifice in the end, but I doubt much of that crew has a high opinion of her.

Finn is never shown to be a coward, but maybe just a little dumb. He was in TFA too. I mean, how educated is a Storm Trooper going to be? He thinks in simple terms and does not plan many moves in advance. He wasn't actually trying to run away in the escape pod, but he was trying to get the beacon as far away as possible to Ray would not fall into a trap. He didn't know the next step. Once he has a plan though, he follows through with it, to the point of even trying to make a sacrifice. He's no coward.

 

[jknezek]

I have to disagree somewhat there. Poe is shown as brash, but also charismatic and likable, a bit like some other beloved SW characters. Sure, he needed to learn a lesson in leadership, and he does. It's just a character arc. Holdo on the other hand comes off as smug and unlikable. She handles her people poorly, hence why the majority of the crew sided with Poe (even the females). Holdo was playing it too close to the vest for no other reason than to aggrandize herself. In the end, it is Leia who teaches Poe the real lesson, not Holdo. Holdo does make the sacrifice in the end, but I doubt much of that crew has a high opinion of her.

Finn is never shown to be a coward, but maybe just a little dumb. He was in TFA too. I mean, how educated is a Storm Trooper going to be? He thinks in simple terms and does not plan many moves in advance. He wasn't actually trying to run away in the escape pod, but he was trying to get the beacon as far away as possible to Ray would not fall into a trap. He didn't know the next step. Once he has a plan though, he follows through with it, to the point of even trying to make a sacrifice. He's no coward.

I think we just see different things in the characters. It happens.

 

[BrianL]

I think we just see different things in the characters. It happens.

Hey, certainly. I'm just offering my perspective.

 

[umichigan10]

I think we tend to feel a message is more heavy-handed when we don't agree with it. Otherwise we either applaud it or hardly notice it since we tend to live in our own spheres of perception. I really didn't think anything in TLJ was that overt. I honestly don't even see the often-cited feminist agenda (at least not beyond showing female characters as capable fighters). Yeah, they tossed in a jab at the military-industrial complex, but it's nothing out of place in that universe. The EU has long established the corporations that build star fighters and such. I find that part interesting.

If TLJ has a message to me, it's perhaps a slightly defeatist one, though it is about remaining strong in the face of certain defeat. Now, personally, this is why I like TLJ less than other SW movies, because I tend to like my heroes to never accept defeat - but this is also the middle part of the trilogy, and so it goes that it must be darkest before the dawn, though how that dawn plays out will have a large impact on my like of the movie in the end. The middle of each trilogy is always my least favorite.

It’s funny because the messages don’t bother me at all (and I’ve never heard of the feminist Star Wars agenda, but probably because I don’t take it seriously at all) and it’s something I noticed. But the prequels may not seem as heavy handed because I was too young when I first saw them to get the references first time through.

I liked the military industrial complex thing as well. It kinda followed that “both sides play dirty” idea from rogue one

 

[jade1]

I have zero problems with the strong female leads in TLJ. I very much wish Admiral Holdo had been smart enough to use a droid to pilot the ship. I thought she was going to be the new Leia and was looking forward to it.

I do believe they went out of their way to make all the major male roles idiots or unlikeable or worse. Poe takes a beating and is made to look the fool about 3 times. Finn is set up to be a coward. Skywalker is turned into a coward. The double crossing dirty arms dealer is of course a sleazy male. Then of course all the true bad guys are male.

Flip it over and Rey is a prodigal saint. Rose is a saint. Holdo and Rose's sister are self sacrificing saints. Leia is the non-cowardly revered elder stateswoman with magical powers.

It was as subtle as a brick to the head. Where JJ set up a male character to be positive pieces, Johnson made them buffoons or cowards and then went overboard the other direction. And then even the one good First Order woman, whatever her name, was sidelined and eliminated in a relatively minor battle with not too much effort. Can't have any bad girls, right Rian? Uggh it was terrible.

The OT had Luke and Han, but Leia was awesome in her own right. Rey is solid, though I agree a bit Mary Sue. But the incessant beating of the drum in TLJ is bad. A little balance would have gone a long way.

This is exactly the case. Still love Rey, but where is the growth with her? Why is she so great as a nobody.

Would have loved a close relationship/training with Luke, to the point of her battling with Luke in IX and avenging the ultimate death of Luke.

Can't have any bad girls, right Rian? This to, but there was Phasma for 10 seconds.

 

[jade1]

Black panther was incredibly political,

Great example, great movie.

Hmm this came out Feb 16 (months after TLD), yet Avengers came out weeks before Solo and it did $2 Billion. Sounds like a good movie can increase anticipation in even a few months.

Now if we can have Rey stripped of her magical powers, beat her and stab her literally to death, throw her off a mountain top into a rocky river valley like T'Challa, we will have a start to some character growth.

And overlooking the stupid politics becomes a lot easier.

 

[umichigan10]

Great example, great movie.

Now if we can have Rey stripped of her magical powers, beat her and stab her literally to death, throw her off a mountain top into a rocky river valley like T'Challa, we will have a start to some character growth.

I thought her and Kylo showed some character depth at the very least. Growth, I’m not so sure about on her end but definitely we saw some sort of change in Kylo (something has to change somewhere for you to skewer your boss in half amiright?)

 

[Dutch Inn '76]

I don’t want this thread to devolve into political bickering, but honestly Disney is one of the most progressive companies out there and has been for a long time. This is their identity. If it bothers you that much it’s probably not a company you should be following then.

Also how is marvel not political? Black panther was incredibly political, as was Spider-Man: homecoming (the little guy vs the big guy narrative). It’s there, even if you don’t notice it

I hear ya - I said "mostly" regarding Marvel. I didn't mind the politics in Black Panther, since (frankly) I went in expecting more of it than I got. It was a good movie with the protagonist preaching unity - not division. ...and yes, I saw it in the other films but they were a bit more nuanced. All the ham-handed political jabs in TLJ are just overwhelming; and they covered every SJW base.

I've been a Star Wars fan since '77, but if they keep the sermons going it'll be hard to maintain that.

 

[Dutch Inn '76]

Disney is one of the most progressive companies out there and has been for a long time. This is their identity. If it bothers you that much it’s probably not a company you should be following then.

I forgot this nugget.

Yeah, I'm well aware of the direction of The Mouse; they have changed on me, but it wasn't that long ago. I long for the days of the "Americana" Disney, and I have hopes that a new CEO might someday return the company to that emphasis. But I'm a big boy; I can disagree with someone and get along. The Mouse and I are like that these days. Mostly, it's the left that's into protesting folks over political thought. I try not to do that.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

In order to enjoy any fictional movie one must be willing to suspend their disbelief. The more incredible the theme, the more one must be willing to do so in order to enjoy the movie. Almost every Disney film, no matter the subsidiary producing it, is built on unbelievable themes. If one can manage to do that then why can't one just relax and enjoy the movie without noticing other potential messages?

I mean, if we can accept that Superman can fly or that the Hulk can leap across planetary systems, ignoring the politics should be easy.

 

[mom2rtk]

In order to enjoy any fictional movie one must be willing to suspend their disbelief. The more incredible the theme, the more one must be willing to do so in order to enjoy the movie. Almost every Disney film, no matter the subsidiary producing it, is built on unbelievable themes. If one can manage to do that then why can't one just relax and enjoy the movie without noticing other potential messages?

I mean, if we can accept that Superman can fly or that the Hulk can leap across planetary systems, ignoring the politics should be easy.

Nope. I go to the movies to escape politics. The jarring insertion of politics into my entertainment actually interferes with my suspension of disbelief.

 

[leiaorgana]

So on a whim we decided to go see it again last night and we all agreed that we enjoyed it even more the second time around. Saw a couple of things that I missed the first time too like the Star Tours logo. The soundtrack for this film is definitely one of my favourites.

I’m just sad it’s not doing as well as it should be and hope it doesn’t end up affecting what they have planned.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Nope. I go to the movies to escape politics. The jarring insertion of politics into my entertainment actually interferes with my suspension of disbelief.

Then I guess that you don't go to the movies, because you cannot escape politics if you are looking for it. It is in everything that we do.

 

[mom2rtk]

Then I guess that you don't go to the movies, because you cannot escape politics if you are looking for it. It is in everything that we do.

It's really a function of degrees. I thought this one was a little too heavy handed and obvious.

 

[monorailrabbit]

We saw Solo a few days ago, on a $5 Tuesday. Neither DH nor myself were willing to spend more than that. We were both pleasantly surprised, but not blown away. I liked it more than Rouge, but that really isn't saying much as Rouge is easily my least favorite. I agree it was a good popcorn flick. Jury is still out on whether or not we will own it on blu ray. I didn't mind TLJ, but I still feel like I have a bit of "Star Wars Fatigue".

Interestingly, I've been a SW fan my entire life and just very recently become a Marvels fan. By comparison, I've seen IW 3 times and would gladly see it again without hesitation. I saw Ragnarok at least 5 times (although most of those were freebies with MoviePass, so why not) and I thoroughly enjoyed Black Panther. The Marvel movies all feel different enough to me that I don't get tired of them. Each has something else going on that may or may not tie into another. I did like how Solo was more of a caper movie and nothing to do with the Force or other worn-out themes. I super enjoyed Lando, but just couldn't get myself to buy into Han.

 

[jade1]

I have zero problems with the strong female leads in TLJ.

Agreed.

And you only need to watch SOLO to be reminded.

In fairness years of shows will help char growth, but certainly could have gotten more on Rey so far, even through quick flash backs and conversations etc.

Daenerys being raped, defiled, betrayed, beaten, enslaved, lost her baby, lost her family and husband etc may be extreme, but you do pull and care for her.