Solar with Sunrun

[disneychrista]

I had a representative of Sunrun come by my house over the weekend booking appointments with the Sunrun Solar. Anyone have any experience with this company? From what I understood you RENT the solar equipment from them. They maintain it, provide upgrades, etc. I am supposed to meet with their sales rep tomorrow. I am interested in getting solar but cost of course is a major factor. This might be a good alternative.

 

[PollyannaMom]

That isn't our company, but I do like having solar, so I would say it's worth hearing them out.

 

[LoveDaisy]

A lot of solar companies offer that. If you are serious about it I would explore your options. I am on the east coast and have not heard of them. So many of the companies are here today gone tomorrow that it makes me nervous. Also see what their roof guarantee is, several friends have had leaky roofs after install.

 

[gottalovepluto]

Do the legal research before their salesman gets another chance to sell you. Leasing can take away a chunk of your rights to your own land. Make sure understand the decommissioning costs and process.

Second the roof warranty check, this could void it if you have one.

Do you have a neighborhood chat group? That’s one of the best ways to gauge if the installers in your specific area for that outfit are competent or leading you into a nightmare.

 

[disneychrista]

Until the guy knocked on my door I’d never heard of this company. I’m interested in solar but not likely to jump on it just yet or with this company. I do wonder why they need to get their business by knocking on doors.

I am thinking of canceling the appointment. It is part of the reason I posted here looking to see if anyone had experience with them.

 

[Dan Murphy]

I am thinking of canceling the appointment

Good choice.

 

[GAN]

I had a representative of Sunrun come by my house over the weekend booking appointments with the Sunrun Solar. Anyone have any experience with this company? From what I understood you RENT the solar equipment from them. They maintain it, provide upgrades, etc. I am supposed to meet with their sales rep tomorrow. I am interested in getting solar but cost of course is a major factor. This might be a good alternative.

The only thing I would do is read the fine print regarding the (potential future)sale of your property. A lot of contracts will stipulate that you must have paid up to a certain percentage of the overall "lease"/ownership. Not sure how that would work if you "rent" it from them... that might be a cleaner way to handle it. Other than that, as long as the math works I'd seriously consider it. I'm in a condo but have a semi-private backyard and have considered temporarily installing a couple panels and backfeeding the power into my main panel to offset some of my electric usage. It's a fairly easy undertaking.....

 

[disneychrista]

The only thing I would do is read the fine print regarding the (potential future)sale of your property. A lot of contracts will stipulate that you must have paid up to a certain percentage of the overall "lease"/ownership. Not sure how that would work if you "rent" it from them... that might be a cleaner way to handle it. Other than that, as long as the math works I'd seriously consider it. I'm in a condo but have a semi-private backyard and have considered temporarily installing a couple panels and backfeeding the power into my main panel to offset some of my electric usage. It's a fairly easy undertaking.....

I do know that it transfers to the new owners which could either be a selling point or a deterrent for a potential buyer.

My biggest question is, if I am leasing the equipment, what happens if the company goes out of business

 

[lanejudy]

I do wonder why they need to get their business by knocking on doors.

They are legitimate -- we have them in our area. They've been in business 15-20 years. We had a quote once (or twice) and it was in-line with other quotes. We didn't go through with it so I can't comment directly about doing business with them.

As to knocking on doors -- they are probably scheduled to do a neighbor and hoping to drum up more business in your neighborhood while there. It seems to be part of their sales model.

 

[LuvOrlando]

My biggest question would be what happens to the equipment when/if you decide to change to a competitor, opt out or move and sell your home?

I was annoyed when Direct TV left the stupid disk on my house making it my problem when I was done with them and their antics. Because of that experience I would be concerned I would be charged a fee to have them come and remove it and haul it away so I'd want that all in writing.

 

[tvguy]

Do the legal research before their salesman gets another chance to sell you. Leasing can take away a chunk of your rights to your own land. Make sure understand the decommissioning costs and process.

Second the roof warranty check, this could void it if you have one.

Do you have a neighborhood chat group? That’s one of the best ways to gauge if the installers in your specific area for that outfit are competent or leading you into a nightmare.

All good questions. I was with Solar City which now operates under the Tesla name.

Generally you have three options with solar. 1) Buy it outright 2) Lease it. 3) PPA (power (Power Purchase Agreement)

If you lease, or have a PPA, they will put a lien on your property for the 20 year term of your agreement. That is reasonable as they ARE putting $30-$40,000 worth of equipment on your house. If you sell you will either have to get the new owner to take over that contract, or buy out the system AT IT'S CURRENT VALUE AS SET BY AN INDEPENDENT APPRASIER.
Never seen decommissioning costs. At the end of my 20 year PPA agreement, the entire system is mine to keep and to continue to use. I will no longer have to pay for the power produced by the panels, the electricity is now free. HOWEVER, my 20 year warranty on the system is over, and I will have to pay for any repairs. I do have an option to have them remove the system, at no charge. But I must do it within 90 days of the end of the 20 year contract.

My contract specifies that the SOLAR COMPANY guarantees that my roof will not leak for 20 years, or they will pay to fix it. That did require a preinstallation inspection. My roof was 3 months old when the solar panels went in, so that was a slam dunk. The roofing contractors warranty is only 10 years and the shingle company PRORATED warranty is 25 years. As sun is the biggest enemy of roofing materials here, and half my roof is under solar panels, I suspect that part of my roof will almost just like new at the end of the 20 year solar contract.

 

[tvguy]

My biggest question would be what happens to the equipment when/if you decide to change to a competitor, opt out or move and sell your home?

I was annoyed when Direct TV left the stupid disk on my house making it my problem when I was done with them and their antics. Because of that experience I would be concerned I would be charged a fee to have them come and remove it and haul it away so I'd want that all in writing.

You are under contract for 20 years, so you can't switch to a competitor. If you sell your home, if you bought the system, no problem. It is your system. If you leased or have a PPA you can either get the new owner to agree to take over that contract, or use your option to buy the system at it's current value and include it in the sale of the home. My contract specifies than an independent appraiser will determine that price. Given the rapidly changing world of solar I would expect depreciation on the system to be steep. My system would have cost $36,000 if I had chosen to own it instead of using a PPA. The system is 10.5 years old with 9.5 years left on the contract. I would expect it has lost AT LEAST half it's value, so I would expect my buy out cost to be less than $18,000, likely a LOT LESS, because my system does not have a battery which is pretty much standard these days.

 

[_19disnA]

I would always be suspicious of any company going door-to-door selling something very expensive regardless of the product. I have seen other article online where renting/leasing solar can be a HUGE issue if you ever try to sell your house. If you are serious about installing solar, I would suggest YOU be the one to make the initial contact, get at least 3 estimates and compare notes with friends/neighbors/etc. who have installed that type of equipment so you understand ALL of the costs. Companies trying to sell you solar will likely play up the BENEFITS but make less effort to inform you about the ISSUES/DRAWBACKS/CONCERNS. For example, in some areas your local electric company will buy back your excess electricity BUT at a much LOWER rate than they sell it to you.

With all of the complexities, make sure to thoroughly investigate how it works in your area and don't jump into anything. The math on the cost effectiveness of solar depends on where you live, how large of a system you install and factors like the price to sell to your local utility. In some parts of the country it makes sense, in other places not so much. If the economics don't work out, you are simply pre-paying your future electric bill and not getting much if any benefit. Panel output degrades over time and they eventually need to be replaced. How much of a payback you think is reasonable will have a significant impact on that calculation.

We looked into installing solar when building a new home in a different part of the country a few years ago. The math didn't work out and the payback was long enough that the panels would probably need replacing about the same time we broke even on the initial cost, so we decided against it.

 

[disneychrista]

I would always be suspicious of any company going door-to-door selling something very expensive regardless of the product. I have seen other article online where renting/leasing solar can be a HUGE issue if you ever try to sell your house. If you are serious about installing solar, I would suggest YOU be the one to make the initial contact, get at least 3 estimates and compare notes with friends/neighbors/etc. who have installed that type of equipment so you understand ALL of the costs. Companies trying to sell you solar will likely play up the BENEFITS but make less effort to inform you about the ISSUES/DRAWBACKS/CONCERNS. For example, in some areas your local electric company will buy back your excess electricity BUT at a much LOWER rate than they sell it to you.

With all of the complexities, make sure to thoroughly investigate how it works in your area and don't jump into anything. The math on the cost effectiveness of solar depends on where you live, how large of a system you install and factors like the price to sell to your local utility. In some parts of the country it makes sense, in other places not so much. If the economics don't work out, you are simply pre-paying your future electric bill and not getting much if any benefit. Panel output degrades over time and they eventually need to be replaced. How much of a payback you think is reasonable will have a significant impact on that calculation.

We looked into installing solar when building a new home in a different part of the country a few years ago. The math didn't work out and the payback was long enough that the panels would probably need replacing about the same time we broke even on the initial cost, so we decided against it.

The bold is my biggest concern with getting solar. Using @tvguy 's number of $36,000 and my average bill of $200 it would take 15 years to break even AND even with solar you are still not 100% free from paying a utility bill.

 

[tvguy]

I would always be suspicious of any company going door-to-door selling something very expensive regardless of the product. I have seen other article online where renting/leasing solar can be a HUGE issue if you ever try to sell your house. If you are serious about installing solar, I would suggest YOU be the one to make the initial contact, get at least 3 estimates and compare notes with friends/neighbors/etc. who have installed that type of equipment so you understand ALL of the costs. Companies trying to sell you solar will likely play up the BENEFITS but make less effort to inform you about the ISSUES/DRAWBACKS/CONCERNS. For example, in some areas your local electric company will buy back your excess electricity BUT at a much LOWER rate than they sell it to you.

With all of the complexities, make sure to thoroughly investigate how it works in your area and don't jump into anything. The math on the cost effectiveness of solar depends on where you live, how large of a system you install and factors like the price to sell to your local utility. In some parts of the country it makes sense, in other places not so much. If the economics don't work out, you are simply pre-paying your future electric bill and not getting much if any benefit. Panel output degrades over time and they eventually need to be replaced. How much of a payback you think is reasonable will have a significant impact on that calculation.

We looked into installing solar when building a new home in a different part of the country a few years ago. The math didn't work out and the payback was long enough that the panels would probably need replacing about the same time we broke even on the initial cost, so we decided against it.

Solar is not an option on new builds in California. It is required. But I did look into adding a battery to my existing system and the math did not work out. My utility offers $10,000 rebate if they figure it will save energy. They figured the break even point was about $7,000. The lowest bid came in at $18,000 so I did not qualify. I don't know for a fact, but I think my 9.36 mW system is bigger than normally is put on my size home with my history of energy use.

 

[tvguy]

The bold is my biggest concern with getting solar. Using @tvguy 's number of $36,000 and my average bill of $200 it would take 15 years to break even AND even with solar you are still not 100% free from paying a utility bill.

THIS is why with I went with a PPA instead of leasing the system or buying it.
With a PPA I paid nothing for the system. I am obligated to pay for all the power the system generates whether I use it or not, at rates specified in my agreement, all below the utilities rates. Surplus is sold to my utility, for less than I paid for it, but it still adds up.


Bottom line, I figure I save $25 to $30 a month on average. My December utility bill was $195 and my Solar generation bill was $35. My neighbor with the same floor plan and all electric paid $275 last month, and my neighbor with a slightly smaller house (about 200 square feet) but with natural gas heating paid $400 for electricity and natural gas combined last month. We have a lot of electric only subdivisions here because our electric rates are so much better than natural gas.

 

[GAN]

I do know that it transfers to the new owners which could either be a selling point or a deterrent for a potential buyer.

My biggest question is, if I am leasing the equipment, what happens if the company goes out of business

I would read the fine print on the transfer -yes, it transfers. But usually there are stipulations -and if you're selling the home, that means you may end up having to front a good chunk of change for the closing to take place. I just had a friend buy a house with solar and the people had to come up with $15,000 to get their loan/agreement/rental/lease(whatever it was called) to 40% paid off before the solar company would release to my friend. He wasn't going to pay so it left the seller in a bad position -they were selling because of a divorce and just needed to move the property at that point.

 

[disneychrista]

I am going to go ahead and cancel the appointment. I don't want to waste the guys time when there is very little chance I am going to go ahead with it.

 

[tvguy]

The bold is my biggest concern with getting solar. Using @tvguy 's number of $36,000 and my average bill of $200 it would take 15 years to break even AND even with solar you are still not 100% free from paying a utility bill.

I should clarify the $36,000 cost was BEFORE the 30% Federal Tax Credit. So $25,200 after that credit. And some states and utilities offer additional credits.
And to further clarify how a PPA (Power Purchase Agreement) works. I got my system for free. To do that I signed away my right to the Federal Tax Credit. The solar company sells my system to an investor, who gets that tax credit, and I agree to buy all the power my system produces for 20 years at a rate that is spelled out in my contract. That money goes to the investor, probably less a cut to the solar company. To break even the investor who bought my system would have to earn $1,260 a year from me. or $105 a month on average. Other than the three winter months, November, December and January my bill has been more than $105.

 

[disneychrista]

I should clarify the $36,000 cost was BEFORE the 30% Federal Tax Credit. So $25,200 after that credit. And some states and utilities offer additional credits.
And to further clarify how a PPA (Power Purchase Agreement) works. I got my system for free. To do that I signed away my right to the Federal Tax Credit. The solar company sells my system to an investor, who gets that tax credit, and I agree to buy all the power my system produces for 20 years at a rate that is spelled out in my contract. That money goes to the investor, probably less a cut to the solar company. To break even the investor who bought my system would have to earn $1,260 a year from me. or $105 a month on average. Other than the three winter months, November, December and January my bill has been more than $105.

So I am clear. You don't pay ANYTHING for the actual solar, ever? You then pay the solar company (or investor) for anything the system produces. You DO NOT have to pay PGE or other utility for the power you use because you are drawing power from the panels instead. My parents have solar but they still have to pay PGE transmission fees or whatever, I assume you do that as well?