Soarin stand by queue

[atp]

I have to say, "no."

It's not a "judgement call" as to how many FP's are given out on a particular day.

That number is predetermined due to ride capacity.

What the overriding factor is (all things being equal) that there are just a lot of guests who decided (during a particular time period) to ride "Standby."

FP users don't substantially slow down a ride's time-to-boarding (their "seats" have already been spoken for.)
It is the over abundance of stand by guests in the queue which will lengthen a ride's time-to-boarding.

I guess that could be it then, just bad luck.

This happened to us our first trip. We wanted one more ride on Soarin before we headed home but by the time we checked out and got there the FP return times were too late. We decided to brave a 70 minute wait and it was more like 2 hours. We ended up having to rush back to get make our ME pick up and no time to eat before our flight. Never again will I get in the standby line for Soarin after 10am. Too many people coming back w/ FPs and while I love the ride, it's not worth that long of a wait.

Yeah, I'm never doing that again either! If I decide I need to ride it before going home on my last day, I'm going to be there at rope drop to get a FP. I really should have done that, but since I had no problem with that line on any of the previous 9 days I really didn't think it was going to be that bad.

The CMs have a ratio they go by as to how many FP go /how many standby. It's highly favored towarded the FP line. They also have numbers of guests to get through the line each hour. It's really interesting that its all about the numbers for them and moving people through.

Things that mess up the line wait include one of the theatres going down unexpectantly - that can really mess with the FP/Standby wait times.

Liz

Maybe the ride broke down and the cast member didn't want to (or wasn't allowed to) say so.

Sheila

Maybe you two are right, could have been because of a problem in the ride. That would make sense...they would have a bigger FP line as well that would have priority and would explain why it happened that the line wasn't moving at all for a long time.

so you stood completely still for 2 hours the line not moving not even a foot and you stayed there?

20 minutes of the line not moving would have been enough for me to get out of line.

No, it was moving at first! And I REALLY wanted to ride it one last time before I went home. It started getting really bad after 1 hour or so. By that point I had "invested" way too much time on that line to just give up.

It was only when I got to the part of the line where I could see people leaving that I saw how ridiculous it was, but by then it was "almost" my turn, I was so close. But it's really aggravating to see people exit over 5 times - that's what? At least 300-400 people? I don't know how many people ride at once, I read somewhere it was around 80 - and see that no one from your line is being let in. I almost did give up because had it taken a few more minutes I would not be able to make it in time for the ME bus.

 

[Traveliz]

I think its 77 per side per ride (but I could be off) and the turn around time is 7-9 minutes plus the ride time. Alot of people do go through there but alot of people use the FP line too.

Liz

 

[doconeill]

Don't forget - Soarin' is not a continuously loading ride. The line is going to move in stops and starts. So by saying "not moving most of the time" over the course of two hours, that's perfectly normal. But it should move quite a bit when it does.

THAT's why they put the projection games in - because people are just standing there for 10 minutes at a time.

Fastpasses as given out at a constant rate. The total capacity of the attraction does not change day to day (beyond maintenance issues - and some attractions do have some level of variable capacity), so the "ideal" rate is already known. I don't know the percentages (no one outside of the people who decide it do), but it is obviously less than 100% I don't think it is a huge percentage though...otherwise MORE people would have to be going through the FP line and not the standby line. That just doesn't seem to be the case.

All bets are off if there is a maintenance issue, especially one that occurs after all FPs have been issued for the day. If it happened before, then they could conceivably adjust the issue rate down to compensate. I don't know if they do that much though.

 

[rmm7e]

When I was at Epcot last Saturday evening, it appeared that they had one side of the ride for FP and the other for standby, with no crossing over. I thought that was a fair way of doing it, but I still felt I waited a long time with FP, about 3 or 4 cycles of the ride on that one side. There were no projection games that I ever saw, and I was alone, so it seemed like forever.

I can't imagine waiting standby for that ride. It's good, but not that good.

Regina

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

This wasn't at Soarin but a few years ago when my family and I were lined up for Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin the standby line was very long, however we decided to wait in there. Anyway as we got closer we also noticed the same thing with the Fast Passes because guests with them just walked right on and the Cast Members were only letting at least 2 - 3 guests at a time from the standby line, so that didn't help it move any faster.

 

[disnut8]

Also remember that Disney does not enforce the hour window time. It's very possible that a lot of Fastpass holders decided to go to Soarin' at that particular time even though their passes were for an earlier time.

So trying to figure out Fastpasses will be a moot point until Disney starts enforcing that one hour window and I don't see that happening anytime soon. Disney is very flexible with Fastpasses and I hope that continues since it's still free to everyone.

 

[doconeill]

Also remember that Disney does not enforce the hour window time. It's very possible that a lot of Fastpass holders decided to go to Soarin' at that particular time even though their passes were for an earlier time.

So trying to figure out Fastpasses will be a moot point until Disney starts enforcing that one hour window and I don't see that happening anytime soon. Disney is very flexible with Fastpasses and I hope that continues since it's still free to everyone.

If there were people using it late, then there were fewer people using them early. It's all a wash, which is why it really doesn't make a difference overall.

It doesn't matter if they show up the moment the window opens, the last minute of the hour, or 3 hours late - their effect on the line is the same. But the later they show up, the more people got through the standby line ahead of them.

 

[seashoreCM]

This happened to us our first trip. We wanted one more ride on Soarin before we headed home but by the time we checked out and got there the FP return times were too late. We decided to brave a 70 minute wait and it was more like 2 hours. We ended up having to rush back to get make our ME pick up and no time to eat before our flight. Never again will I get in the standby line for Soarin after 10am. Too many people coming back w/ FPs and while I love the ride, it's not worth that long of a wait.

Shoot to be back at your resort an hour before your Magical Express bus back to the airport. When it seems like you won't make that goal, then give up waiting for a ride.

If your last activity in town is a meal, better to do it at the airport, using the food stands in the gate rotunda inside security. You can always get by advance request an earlier bus back to the airport.

There could have been a breakdown at Soarin' causing things to back up. In turn this could result in a ratio of 95 fastpass riders to 5 standby riders for awhile. It is not unusual for fastpasses to be issued normally so as to result in a proportion of fastpass riders well over 50%.

Epcot doesn't have a parade but for the other parks there is a deluge of both standby and fastpass riders just after the parade which will make the posted wait time very inaccurate for awhile. Hollywood Studios also has a deluge after a Lights Motors shows.

 

[joelkfla]

If there were people using it late, then there were fewer people using them early. It's all a wash, which is why it really doesn't make a difference overall.

It doesn't matter if they show up the moment the window opens, the last minute of the hour, or 3 hours late - their effect on the line is the same. But the later they show up, the more people got through the standby line ahead of them.

You're wrong -- it does make a difference to the people who are unlucky enough to get into the standby line at the same time as the FP surge.

Yes, standbyers who arrived during the FP latecomers' designated return window will get on faster, but those arriving during the surge will wait longer as the ratio is adjusted to keep the FP line reasonable.

 

[doconeill]

You're wrong -- it does make a difference to the people who are unlucky enough to get into the standby line at the same time as the FP surge.

Yes, standbyers who arrived during the FP latecomers' designated return window will get on faster, but those arriving during the surge will wait longer as the ratio is adjusted to keep the FP line reasonable.

Ratio adjustment is debatable, but has zero effect in the end.

The fact is, it is reasonable to assume that the "unlucky" would get into the standby line whether the FP holders used them on time or not. And the "unlucky" would ride at the exact same time they would have either way, because either way the FP holders would have ridden before them.

The so called "surges" don't really exist due to late FP use. First, the "surge" is small. It isn't like 100 FP holders all conspire to show up at the exact same time with late FPs - it is more like a family unit. Second, such a "surge" has the SAME EXACT IMPACT if they all showed up at the same time WITHIN the window.

Now sure, if Disney enforced the window, anyone with a late FP would be out of luck - but then those people would more than likely have used the FP within the window if Disney was enforcing.

Ultimately in the end late FP has ZERO IMPACT on actual ride times. IT can have a impact on wait times, sure - but many, many other factors play in to that. They aren't as accurate as people think. You have to remember that a wait time can only be measured after the wait has been completed - and the makeup of the line behind that person could have changed radically.

If you see a large number of people in the FP line, it has nothing to do with intentional FP use. It has to do with maintenance issues, ride shutdowns, and inexperienced CMs.

I think in four years, that's the first time someone has ever just flatly said, "You're wrong".

But I just had a nasty idea of using Twitter to set up the "Late FP Flash Mob"...

 

[Wadecool]

Ratio adjustment is debatable, but has zero effect in the end.

The fact is, it is reasonable to assume that the "unlucky" would get into the standby line whether the FP holders used them on time or not. And the "unlucky" would ride at the exact same time they would have either way, because either way the FP holders would have ridden before them.

The so called "surges" don't really exist due to late FP use. First, the "surge" is small. It isn't like 100 FP holders all conspire to show up at the exact same time with late FPs - it is more like a family unit. Second, such a "surge" has the SAME EXACT IMPACT if they all showed up at the same time WITHIN the window.

Now sure, if Disney enforced the window, anyone with a late FP would be out
of luck - but then those people would more than likely have used the FP within
the window if Disney was enforcing.

Ultimately in the end late FP has ZERO IMPACT on actual ride times. IT can have a impact on wait times, sure - but many, many other factors play in to
that. They aren't as accurate as people think. You have to remember that a
wait time can only be measured after the wait has been completed - and the
makeup of the line behind that person could have changed radically.

If you see a large number of people in the FP line, it has nothing to do with intentional FP use. It has to do with maintenance issues, ride shutdowns, and
inexperienced CMs.

I think in four years, that's the first time someone has ever just flatly said, "You're wrong".

But I just had a nasty idea of using Twitter to set up the "Late FP Flash Mob"...

For the record, I think "you're right", lol. I kinda like the less is more debate tactic, a lot less work.

 

[nroush313]

Without saying too much, I have observed Soarin' for over two years and can tell you based on Fastpasses and ride capacity in a day, fastpasses accounted for about 60-70%. Also, the CM in the merge position does give FP the priority and I have seen a ratio before of 60 FP to 1 standby. This is part of the reason the wall between FP and standby was raised during the rehab when they put the games in. Many fights broke out so now standby can't see the FP line and how fast it is moving. I have also seen CM dispense and then throw away the FP to try and lower the amount returning.

 

[atp]

Without saying too much, I have observed Soarin' for over two years and can tell you based on Fastpasses and ride capacity in a day, fastpasses accounted for about 60-70%. Also, the CM in the merge position does give FP the priority and I have seen a ratio before of 60 FP to 1 standby. This is part of the reason the wall between FP and standby was raised during the rehab when they put the games in. Many fights broke out so now standby can't see the FP line and how fast it is moving. I have also seen CM dispense and then throw away the FP to try and lower the amount returning.

That's really interesting! Thank you for sharing. I had no idea about that wall thing! Wow. I can imagine people would be angry. Though you can still see people exit the ride, or did they change that since June, 2010?

Anyway, the ratio you mention seems like what happened on that day. I was counting the times people exited the ride and it was a lot, at least five times...if the ratio was closer to 50/50 then the line would move some each time people left. Now if they were letting 60 FP in for every stand by, then what happened makes perfect sense, the line would not move noticeably that way...it would take a lot of cycles for it to move. Maybe that's what happened.

Come to think of it, when it was time for me to move on to the last part of the ride, the cast member let in what, 10-15 people? Not much more than that. I was almost not let in, if I hadn't mentioned I was alone I wouldn't have been able to ride as I would be waiting about 5 ride cycles again and would miss the ME.

 

[doconeill]

A 60-to-1 ratio of fastpass to standby is unsustainable. That would be about 2.5 standby riders per cycle. At an average of 9 minutes per cycle, that would only be 200 standby riders in the course of a 12 hour park day.

Now, I can see them momentarily going up to that ratio if there was a large line of FP users owing to some glitch or something, but they could not possibly be giving them out at that rate, and therefore there shouldn't be any sort of sustained ratio like that. Just not feasible.

 

[atp]

A 60-to-1 ratio of fastpass to standby is unsustainable. That would be about 2.5 standby riders per cycle. At an average of 9 minutes per cycle, that would only be 200 standby riders in the course of a 12 hour park day.

Now, I can see them momentarily going up to that ratio if there was a large line of FP users owing to some glitch or something, but they could not possibly be giving them out at that rate, and therefore there shouldn't be any sort of sustained ratio like that. Just not feasible.

Oh yeah, I totally agree! Like I said, I rode it many times on stand by without issue. It was really just that one time. Maybe the ride had broken down while I was in line or shortly before? That could have backed up the FP line a lot and would possibly have that weird ratio happen temporarily.

I may be an exception, but I'm not one to complain about lines. As long as it's moving at regular intervals I'm fine waiting 45-60 minutes. Anything less than that is really no big deal to me. That's why I was so shocked at what I experienced that day and curious to know if maybe all the other days where the line moved quite fast were the exception, not the other way around.

 

[nroush313]

A 60-to-1 ratio of fastpass to standby is unsustainable. That would be about 2.5 standby riders per cycle. At an average of 9 minutes per cycle, that would only be 200 standby riders in the course of a 12 hour park day.

Now, I can see them momentarily going up to that ratio if there was a large line of FP users owing to some glitch or something, but they could not possibly be giving them out at that rate, and therefore there shouldn't be any sort of sustained ratio like that. Just not feasible.

All I can say is that I experienced this personally many many days in a row. Which is why CM were throwing away FPs and there was a rule made where if you got caught with more than 10 FPs at any one time you got in trouble.

 

[Robo]

...if you got caught with more than 10 FPs at any one time you got in trouble.

If who got "caught" with more than 10 FP's?

What kind of "trouble?"

 

[nroush313]

If who got "caught" with more than 10 FP's?

What kind of "trouble?"

The CMs who were throwing them away and you would get a reprimand or performance manager meeting on your record card.

 

[doconeill]

The CMs who were throwing them away and you would get a reprimand or performance manager meeting on your record card.

Now this is making far less sense.

A CM getting in trouble for having more than 10 FPs? I don't even know what that means.

Are you talking about them taking them from guests, and then not throwing them away fast enough? That's just foolish and has nothing to do with enforcement of ratios.

Not saying it isn't true, but it certainly wouldn't fix any problem.

 

[joelkfla]

Ratio adjustment is debatable, but has zero effect in the end.

The fact is, it is reasonable to assume that the "unlucky" would get into the standby line whether the FP holders used them on time or not. And the "unlucky" would ride at the exact same time they would have either way, because either way the FP holders would have ridden before them.

The so called "surges" don't really exist due to late FP use. First, the "surge" is small. It isn't like 100 FP holders all conspire to show up at the exact same time with late FPs - it is more like a family unit. Second, such a "surge" has the SAME EXACT IMPACT if they all showed up at the same time WITHIN the window

Assume, for illustration purposes, 1,000 FP's are distributed for each 1 hour period. Assume that ride capacity is 2,000 per hour. Assume average standby wait time is 30 minutes.

If half of the people with return times during the 12 o'clock hour decide to eat lunch instead, and ride during the 2 o'clock hour, there are now 1,500 FP riders during 2 o'clock hour. The effect of the 500 reduction during the 12 o'clock has smoothed, since the standby line essentially emptied out, and more standby riders have jumped in upon seeing the low wait time (some perhaps exiting FP riders who jumped back for a reride.)

How can you say that riders entering the standby line would not be impacted by having 50% more FP riders during a given interval than Disney allocated?

You may say my numbers are not realistic, which may be the case, but I also say "just one family unit" is unrealistic. It's like saying, "Just one vote can't make a difference." I think surges do occur, after meal periods and events such as parades.