Soarin' SB+ test...Fail

[mesaboy2]

I have. Many times in threads like these. And am continuously shut down, as many of those who don't like fp+ are. I'm sorry, but it didnt really come across as a sincere request for ideas at this point.

As many,.including myself, have said, the only.thing that will ultimately really help this capacity issue is adding more attractions. And yet there aren't even far off rumors.of.epcot getting anything new any time in.the next decade. Pandora will help AK, and there are SW rumors for DHS. But for epcot, only a rumor of.a retheme for.maelstrom....rethemes don't address capacity issues.

This is the answer, combined with slowing down the rate of construction of onsite rooms, including DVC. It will not be achieved quickly, but it can be achieved.

 

[stky6]

I can't be the only one here who has a slight fear that within the next 10 years, to go to Walt Disney World, you will have to have your trips planned out in intricate detail, can I? I'm talking about knowing that on 10/12 you will go to Magic Kingdom and arrive at rope drop. Sometime between 9:05 and 9:25, you will ride Splash Mountain. From 9:30 to 9:50, you have a reservation to ride Thunder Mountain. You will then watch the 10:00 showing of Country Bears. When that is over, you can visit Pirates from 10:30 until 10:50. Then, you have from 11:00 to 11:20 to do Jungle Cruise. You have another 20 minute window to do Aladdin's Magic Carpet. You will be expected to have lunch at a counter service restaurant from 11:50 until 12:50. Then, starting at 1:00, you have twenty minute windows for each of the Fantasyland rides. You get the idea. It really seems Disney wants us to plan plan plan and, while I love planning my vacations, I also don't want to plan each detail. And I don't want to be told that I don't even have the option of riding a ride unless that reason is it is broken or down for refurb.

Isn't this kinda what people do with Touring Plans stuff now? I know what you're pointing out is the difference between using a TP now and in your scenario is you would have no option to change your plans easily, and no option to just get on a ride on a whim as you're walking by it.

At my local parks in Ohio they have a Fast Lane option to purchase, it is a tiered system that depending on what you pay determines which rides you have front of the line access to...personally I hate it and have never used it. The biggest problem with it is there is no limit to how many times you can get off the ride and right back on thru the FL line. They say they base the amount of sales of FL based on how crowded the park is to avoid screwing up the stand by lines....it ain't working.

If this is what they might be heading for at Disney....good luck

 

[wn01aa]

See above.

But what if they did this to every headliner (or even worse every ride) and put in rules like Legacy FP where you either had to wait a couple hours or until your other FP expired. If I go to Splash Mountain at say 10am and they give me a SB+ for Noon, normally with FP- I would go standby on BTMRR. But now I cant get in line there because of SB+ at that ride and I couldn't get another SB+ until at least Noon. I am stuck with wondering around for a couple hours. The other way I could have go on both by Noon.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Isn't this kinda what people do with Touring Plans stuff now?

They have a basic idea like this, yes. My family does the same. But when we get there, if we are feeling like doing Tomorrowland first, rather than Frontierland, we have that freedom. We really had that freedom with Fast Pass. Fast Pass+ took a bit of that freedom away in that we can no longer change our plans day-of and still have the same benefits (for example, had we intended to do 7DMT first thing, but then my daughter decided she wanted to do Space Mountain instead, we can't just change and get a FP+ for 7DMT that day). With this new thing with Soarin', if you are at Epcot by a certain time, Soarin' isn't happening for your family. Hope you are there at rope drop. With my above scenerio, I'm concerned that Disney is going to get where they want our trips planned out in detail. Problem with this is, that won't allow for flexibility for us as a family. When we plan, we have that flexibility because no one knows/cares if we change nor are they affected. As is, we have the privilege of planning or not. If Disney keeps up how things are going, it's going to be that you either plan (and stick with it) or don't get to do anything that day.

 

[andeesings]

I just think- anyone who goes on a theme park vacation expecting to wait on no lines is silly. I've vacationed NOT in theme parks and had to wait in lines (some museums in Europe are AWFUL).

It's Disney. I don't go in summertime and expect to wait no more than 20 minutes for anything. If it means I'm waiting in a line for an hour or two, or a few of them, that's the vacation I chose! I could easily have gone camping if I wanted.

 

[wn01aa]

hello disboarders

a quick note to y'all, and hopefully a longer post eventually, but I want you to know I took one for the team.

Instead of napping or swimming this afternoon, I hoofed it over to epcot to check out soarin. We did the morning at the MK (emh morning, something I avoid like the plague, but it was DD's bday, and she wanted to do the MK. When I tried to balk at this, she pointed out the time I INSISTED we be in the MK on Christmas Day, to see the parade - another very bad choice....anyhow...)

I arrived at the land at about 1:30 pm. I was thinking that the standby passes would be for later tonight, but that was not so. The printed return time was between 3 and 4 pm. Hmmm, not horrible.

I should mention that they had ropes up so there was only one way to enter the land, and one way to exit, so there was crowd/flow control going on.

Overall, there was NO negativity from the crowd that I could see, except a bit of grumbling. Due to the heat and humidity, I thought there could be some out and out screaming and brawling, much like a pool hoping/6 in a hotel room,/line jumpers thread here on our beloved dis boards.

They were using the old fast pass area of soaring to stage the hand out of these little cards. YOu were directed to go to a cm who was handing them out. I was by myself, and was asked how many did I want. This system could/would be massively abused if kept like this, as every member of the family could go up individually and ask for a group of tickets.

More soon, a few observations...be right back

Yes. While testing I can see the abuse. A party of 5 has each person go up and ask for 5 tickets and you end up with 25 SB+ tickets. Can ride it five times in a row. If it does become permanent, I hope it links to the MB to stop abuse like that. It wouldn't be bad if the return time you were given was always an hour or two from getting the ticket, but I think some are scared the tickets will run out really fast early for the whole day. Each rides capacity per hour I think will affect how fast they sell out. I imagine when linked electronically you won't be able to ride anything else while you are waiting in your "virtual" line, especially if everything is virtual line.

 

[MouseClubMama]

When do suspect they would arrive at WDW for that one expensive day?

If in the AM (I would hope early am) they can kisok FP+'s for the day, and SB+ could/will be no wait in the line. Currently though those SB lines are long and you cant leave.

Contrary if we go over to US for Gringotts and the train-its $200 each and 400 minute wait if it doesn't break down. Now if I could kiosk Gringotts for say 2PM that would be great. Heck even get a paper card for a later return would help.

The whole scenario is not very appealing especially during busy seasons. You would have to be at the parks at RD, run to the kiosk to wait in line there, and if you failed to get FP+ for the rides that you want, you would have to race off to get the SB+ for those attractions. I am sure this could be accomplished when the parks are not busy, but if they are crowded, as they are in peak seasons, it will be a case of hurry up and wait for the day guest.
I have no desire to visit the 'other place'... so I really can't comment on their system, or prices. I do believe that the present system, should Disney decide to keep it in place, will possibly be a big negative for the spontaneous Disney guest, and this will translate to lost dollars for Disney.

 

[clsteve]

When do suspect they would arrive at WDW for that one expensive day?

If in the AM (I would hope early am) they can kisok FP+'s for the day, and SB+ could/will be no wait in the line. Currently though those SB lines are long and you cant leave.

Contrary if we go over to US for Gringotts and the train-its $200 each and 400 minute wait if it doesn't break down. Now if I could kiosk Gringotts for say 2PM that would be great. Heck even get a paper card for a later return would help.

You've been playing Amusement Park Tycoon again, haven't you....?

Against my better judgement, here it goes:

Your logic not only ignores capacity, it ignores the multiple types, needs, wants, desires, nationalities, language issues and overall guest type - not to mention social behavior

And All of your "logic" ignores the fact that implementing your strategy means there is no standby. Well, I think that's what you mean, but I've completely lost track of what you're proposing, or where you stand. On one hand, you agree this may be the precursor to decreasing standby availability and increasing FP+ capacity available for reservation. On the other hand, you say just stand in line if you don't want to grab a Standby+...... which completely ignores the fact that there is no line to stand in.

So logistically, you're proposing (I think) that Disney now have 3 lines FP+, SB+ and Standby - even though none of the rides are set up for that or even have the capability to handle it. You're also surmising that, if FP+ now takes 90% of capacity well in advance (if you still believe Disney is going this route, like you did earlier in the thread), then the earliest guests grab the remaining 10% (remember FP-? That happened with less allocation to FP's) ------what do the day-of guests or late risers do for headliner attractions, without any remaining capacity or a standby line....? How is Disney even going to begin to educate the multitude of languages and nationalities on this very complex addition?

And on your continued Gringott's "analogy".... Really...??

The newest, most technologically advanced ride on the Planet has long waits.... Because everyone wants to ride it...... because it's had downtime...... like every other new ride..... I'm shocked... Stop the Presses.....

And yet you constantly ignore that 7DMT (a basic 'coaster) was down 9 hours out of 15 on opening day and was down for one full day a few weeks ago, and had significant outages for the 1st 4 weeks.

But you see -nobody cares - we're all experienced Park goers - rides break down when they first open. Get over it.

Plus, it has absolutely zero to do with this conversation. Yet, you keep bringing it up. Universal is 100% upfront with every aspect of how their Parks work and how guests utilize them.

And Disney...?

Do we really need to point out to you (again) how this has worked for many months? For example:

Do we need to, once again, point out what happened to those 10's of thousands of PoP guests who were left hanging all holiday season as the only on-site guests who suddenly were MB-only while everybody else could pull Legacy FP's? Btw, without any announcement?

Do we have to go into the tiering of DAK, with no prior announcement?

And on, and on, until this new "fun" ----- with no announcement.

What Universal is or is doing has no bearing on this issue - it's a Disney issue

And, this is not Amusement Park Tycoon. We are not all the same type of seasoned guest, from the same place, staying in the same lodging, staying for the same amount of time, coming back over and over. 100% anything - whether that's 100% the same type of lodging, or ticket, or ride reservation system, is not feasible for the largest Theme Park Complex in the world. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever - not when humans are involved.

 

[SnowBelleAlice]

What a mess, such a shame. :/

 

[wn01aa]

Somebody asked if there was any information outside of the land on this test. I believe the answer is no. Nobody appeared to know about it, it was not until you went do the stairs, into the zoo, that you realized something was up.

Strangly, living with the land only had a 10 minute wait, with at least 1000 people hanging about, holding on to their little cards....sometimes you just cant figure people out....

side note on gringotts: the phenomenon will die down eventually, and in a few months, it will be relatively easy to see, in my opinion. HOwever, this system of standby plus will really change things at disney, and at all the headliners.

When I get back home, I want to report on some very funny 'staging' of lines I saw Disney doing, at TOT, a line manipulation to keep people from entering the standby line....at 7pm, when the park closed at 10....perhaps its the norm, not sure.

Line manipulation in that at 7pm it was really a 10 minute wait for TOT but it had a posted time much higher, like 60 minutes?

 

[jade1]

You've been playing Amusement Park Tycoon again, haven't you....?

Against my better judgement, here it goes:

Your logic not only ignores capacity, it ignores the multiple types, needs, wants, desires, nationalities, language issues and overall guest type - not to mention social behavior

And All of your "logic" ignores the fact that implementing your strategy means there is no standby. Well, I think that's what you mean, but I've completely lost track of what you're proposing, or where you stand. On one hand, you agree this may be the precursor to decreasing standby availability and increasing FP+ capacity available for reservation. On the other hand, you say just stand in line if you don't want to grab a Standby+...... which completely ignores the fact that there is no line to stand in.

So logistically, you're proposing (I think) that Disney now have 3 lines FP+, SB+ and Standby - even though none of the rides are set up for that or even have the capability to handle it. You're also surmising that, if FP+ now takes 90% of capacity well in advance (if you still believe Disney is going this route, like you did earlier in the thread), then the earliest guests grab the remaining 10% (remember FP-? That happened with less allocation to FP's) ------what do the day-of guests or late risers do for headliner attractions, without any remaining capacity or a standby line....? How is Disney even going to begin to educate the multitude of languages and nationalities on this very complex addition?

And on your continued Gringott's "analogy".... Really...??

The newest, most technologically advanced ride on the Planet has long waits.... Because everyone wants to ride it...... because it's had downtime...... like every other new ride..... I'm shocked... Stop the Presses.....

And yet you constantly ignore that 7DMT (a basic 'coaster) was down 9 hours out of 15 on opening day and was down for one full day a few weeks ago, and had significant outages for the 1st 4 weeks.

But you see -nobody cares - we're all experienced Park goers - rides break down when they first open. Get over it.

Plus, it has absolutely zero to do with this conversation. Yet, you keep bringing it up. Universal is 100% upfront with every aspect of how their Parks work and how guests utilize them.

And Disney...?

Do we really need to point out to you (again) how this has worked for many months? For example:

Do we need to, once again, point out what happened to those 10's of thousands of PoP guests who were left hanging all holiday season as the only on-site guests who suddenly were MB-only while everybody else could pull Legacy FP's? Btw, without any announcement?

Do we have to go into the tiering of DAK, with no prior announcement?

And on, and on, until this new "fun" ----- with no announcement.

What Universal is or is doing has no bearing on this issue - it's a Disney issue

And, this is not Amusement Park Tycoon. We are not all the same type of seasoned guest, from the same place, staying in the same lodging, staying for the same amount of time, coming back over and over. 100% anything - whether that's 100% the same type of lodging, or ticket, or ride reservation system, is not feasible for the largest Theme Park Complex in the world. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever - not when humans are involved.

I know a lot of folks just want FP- back but lets discuss with it gone, feel free to ref it though as its all good conversation IMO-as is comparing all theme parks around the world and what they do to improve wait times.

Furthermore expansion is relief for everything and we ALL want it, but assuming it will come eventually why not at least discuss SB as even the new attractions will have even higher SB with new interest (TRON).

If folks conclude long wait times are good (SB or FP) I....got nothing sorry.

1) I think we can assume the FP+ is staying and at least working pretty good for what its.

2) I think we all agree they can't/shouldn't reserve 100 % of an attraction as FP+.

3) So we have a SB line at lets just say 30%, and the rest of the attraction flows through 70% of the guests at a minimal wait.

4) QBOT in theory would control the SB queue so folks can do other things. Pretty much eliminating all wait times all day for an attraction.

5) Seems the main concept can be accepted by most, but now there is the possible issues and unintended consequences which of course require attention and discussion-these could lead to abandoning the project, or continuing the discussion.

6) Obvious upside is the attraction runs a minimal wait time all day and runs at full capacity, no more no less quests experience the attraction than if it were 400 minutes all day long-never even close to being accomplished in the history of theme parks I would presume.

7) Questionable-it can they get the MB to implement with other than paper much less work correctly etc I admit.

8) QBOT ride reserving-sounds good having your spot held, but what if its soo popular that all SB slots get taken up very early in the day shutting out some guests arriving later-no snooze you loose comments.

So to me that's the issue currently.

1) I don't think the return time will climb as high as others think
a) you are shut out of all other attractions (except walk on entertainment types and FP+ ressies) so many guests will pass if it's too high and select a shorter one

2) Time of year/seasons-do not implement busy weeks if necessary

3) Cut off times-use QBOT until it hits say 8PM-then its just SB from then on

4) Yes a 3rd line for the few willing to wait super long-we are not talking every attraction, so just a merge line.

 

[phorsenuf]

You know you bring up an EXCELLENT point. What happens to guests with DAS? With no wait time when do they tell these guests to return? Not only that, but many with DAS can't RUN to Soarin at rope drop.

Many people who need a DAS can't be there for rope drop either. This whole new scenario is a big nightmare!

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I have a question for those who have been around longer than I have. My parents went to WDW back in September of last year when they were starting testing for FP+, doing Magic Bands, and all of these new changes. My husband and I went in late January when FP+ was rolled out fully in its original form. We went back last week when new FP+ was going on. Now, we were parks free last week so we have no first-hand experience, but did talk with various guests. It seems that a fourth fast pass is hard to get, especially if you are looking for any of the headliners. Prior to this new change, though, my husband and I experienced FP+ in January and we hated it. It really changed how we traveled and how much we did. It created long lines for rides that used to have no wait at all. We just didn't like it. It seems like they used guests as guinea pigs to test out FP+. It was not well received which lead to this change which, we can all agree, happened very quickly after fully implementing FP+. To me, this says that they realized FP+ had some serious issues and that they risked losing customers. Now, we are hearing about SB+ which to me says that the changes to FP+ haven't done what they were hoping and they are still trying to correct the problem. Now, I was a CP at WDW in fall of 2005 when FP was going on. I don't remember using fast pass for any previous trips, but don't think I had been since 1999, now that I think about it. When they first rolled out Fast Pass, did they make this many changes in such a short period of time? Did it appear that they were using the guests as guinea pigs to see how things worked and then changing them 2-3 months later? Or did it seem like FP was, for the most part, a success from the start? And, does anyone know what happened to make Disney think FP needing fixing in the form of FP+? I can see why they went to SB+, but I'm unaware of what was going on with FP to warrant a change.

 

[monkeybug]

And, does anyone know what happened to make Disney think FP needing fixing in the form of FP+? I can see why they went to SB+, but I'm unaware of what was going on with FP to warrant a change.

This is just me guessing, but my guess is that Disney went to FP+ because it means more money for them! Now there is another reason to choose onsite instead of off, and you have to buy your tickets much earlier if you want to take advantage of that 60 or 30 day window (no more waiting until you get there), which means that even if you cancel your vacation for some reason, you've got tickets that you are probably going to find a way to use at some point.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I know a lot of folks just want FP- back but lets discuss with it gone,

I haven't seen anyone calling for that in quite some time, as we all know it isn't going to happen.

Furthermore expansion is relief for everything and we ALL want it, but assuming it will come eventually why not at least discuss SB as even the new attractions will have even higher SB with new interest (TRON).

Why should we assume it will come eventually? Test Track opened in 1999. Soarin' in 2005. It's been almost a decade since an E ticket was added to Epcot, and there's not even rumors for another one in the next decade (as there are for the other parks).

If folks conclude long wait times are good (SB or FP) I....got nothing sorry.

No one here is saying long wait times are good. People are saying they want a choice whether or not to deal with that line...not be told by Disney that they aren't allowed to wait, even if they choose to. That's a very different thing than saying that long wait times are good.

 

[mesaboy2]

I haven't seen anyone calling for that in quite some time, as we all know it isn't going to happen.



Why should we assume it will come eventually? Test Track opened in 1999. Soarin' in 2005. It's been almost a decade since an E ticket was added to Epcot, and there's not even rumors for another one in the next decade (as there are for the other parks).



No one here is saying long wait times are good. People are saying they want a choice whether or not to deal with that line...not be told by Disney that they aren't allowed to wait, even if they choose to. That's a very different thing than saying that long wait times are good.

This point just isn't sinking in for some.

 

[Rileygirl]

Yes. While testing I can see the abuse. A party of 5 has each person go up and ask for 5 tickets and you end up with 25 SB+ tickets. Can ride it five times in a row. If it does become permanent, I hope it links to the MB to stop abuse like that. It wouldn't be bad if the return time you were given was always an hour or two from getting the ticket, but I think some are scared the tickets will run out really fast early for the whole day. Each rides capacity per hour I think will affect how fast they sell out. <b>I imagine when linked electronically you won't be able to ride anything else while you are waiting in your "virtual" line, especially if everything is virtual line.</b>

uhmm, EXACTLY!!!!!

no time to discuss, but come on people, think about this...how many virtual lines are we going to be allowed in.....

net result 4 or 5 good attractions or 7 or 8 tiki birds.....

 

[jade1]

2) Time of year/seasons-do not implement busy weeks if necessary

3) Cut off times-use QBOT until it hits say 8PM-then its just SB from then on

4) Yes a 3rd line for the few willing to wait super long-we are not talking every attraction, so just a merge line.

No one here is saying long wait times are good. People are saying they want a choice whether or not to deal with that line...not be told by Disney that they aren't allowed to wait, even if they choose to. That's a very different thing than saying that long wait times are good.

This point just isn't sinking in for some.

Even reading?

 

[robpa]

When do suspect they would arrive at WDW for that one expensive day?

If in the AM (I would hope early am) they can kisok FP+'s for the day, and SB+ could/will be no wait in the line. Currently though those SB lines are long and you cant leave.

Contrary if we go over to US for Gringotts and the train-its $200 each and 400 minute wait if it doesn't break down. Now if I could kiosk Gringotts for say 2PM that would be great. Heck even get a paper card for a later return would help.

You keep bringing up Gringotts and I'm not sure that is a fair comparison to Disney rides. It is barely 3 weeks old and there is still a lot of hype built around it so everyone wants to ride it. Maybe compare it to Forbidden Journey which is at least an older attraction in which some of the hype has died down for.

 

[jade1]

Entertaining thread. Even a reference to socialism. I am glad that here in 'Merica we do not have any socialistic elements in government.

Other things I find amusing:

1. Frequent park goers on this thread bemoaning this idea but would admittedly never wait in a line more than 20 minutes long. But somehow this affects them.
2. The concern for fellow guests among those that never seemed to care before that their fellow guests were ignorant of FP and that allowed them to really maximize the use of the FP system. Now these same people are some of the most altruistic people that walk among us carrying the banner for the common man. Well Played!!!
3. It is somehow OK for Universal to be referenced in multiple threads in the past as the gold standard when talking about Disney's perceived shortcomings but now it is verboten to talk about how Universal rushed opening an attraction. As an aside, I do not see transparency displayed by Universal when it closes Gringotts 3 hours before the park closes and doesnt inform its guests.
4. This is a test just like A&E was. Now, maybe Disney will roll this out as they have done with other tests or maybe they will read the vast wisdom on the DIS and not. They did adjust FP+ when they rolled it out and maybe if they roll this out, it will not be like it is being tested. We will see. Like I said previously, I think people should have the choice to wait in SB lines should they choose. And if Disney does this, I will voice my concern as well. I know some DIS'ers think they could run the parks better than the current management team in place but I want to wait and see which direction management goes with this.

I am looking forward to the next outrage du jour around here. You cant make some of this stuff up.

And to remove the socialism- they could charge for QBOT like UNI, what $35 a day per person.

That will increase the chance of a SB getting on for sure.