Soarin' over EPCOT

M. Viking:

The whole point of this thread is that M. Lutz and other web sites 'broke' the story that Disney is contemplating putting the Soarin' ride as is into the Land exhibit at Epcot.

If Disney goes ahead and spends the money to make this ride, I can't believe they would be dumb enough to just use the Ca. film. At this point, until more facts are availible, I'm willing to give them the benifit of the doubt.

At this point, your wishes are just that--mere speculation and innuendo heaped upon the already existing pile of rumor and gossip.

I think I see your point, but the truth of the matter is that we are all commenting on the rumor that Soarin' goes in Epcot 'jus comme ca', and I think some of us agree that WDW does not need a clone of the ride; instead, WDW could use a clone of the ride system.
 
***"and I think some of us agree that WDW does not need a clone of the ride; instead, WDW could use a clone of the ride system."***

Absolutely agree.
 
AV you said something very important: "the fans" want this or are willing to accept that. You know the majority of WDW attendees don't spend anytime thinking about any of this. They have absolutely no idea what gets tossed around on these boards and even if they venture here, they are not Disney enthusiasts and do not draw these distinctions. Disney stills WOWs them and you know it. They can't hear a word you're saying over those plastic "mouse ears".

So what if Soarin gets put in using the same exact film as CA? Why wouldn't a cool attraction which highlighted the Golden State be something we'd all enjoy - particularly those of us from the East Coast or the many international tourists. The great thing about this is that you have versatility with the presentation. Right now, I'd really like to see this attraction the way it is so I hope they do follow through with these plans.

Frankly they should consider replacing Imagination and I'd be ecstatic. That attraction stunk from day one. I have never understood its' relevance and there was nothing "WOW" to speak of there. It's cursed with a bad tune.

Maybe one day the planets will align and we'll stop finding something wrong with just about everything Disney attempts to do. I understand the woulda shoulda coulda mentality but honestly believe that it's much easier to complain when we aren't the ones making the decisions because we have nothing to lose.
 
So what if Soarin gets put in using the same exact film as CA?
Because of the philosophical difference that set this company apart from any other in the world.

Sure they can do as you suggest. And the vast amount of people will willingly accept it. Not necessarily LOVE it, be WOWed by it, but accept it, as you suggest. As they accept Universal, 6 Flags, Denny’s, McDonald’s, or their favorite brand of toilet paper. But Disney becomes just an ordinary company in America by doing it. No worse. But certainly no better. Nothing special anymore. And don’t get me wrong. There’s nothing inherently wrong with this. For most companies it works rather well. But it isn’t Disney!! It isn’t even close to the “DISNEY” that built all that fan loyalty!!!

And as it took many years and many QUALITY films and QUALITY parks and QUALITY attractions and QUALITY "whatever" to create a company that consistently WOWed the crowd and produced really hard core fans, it isn’t just this one particular decision that will transform them into the mundane mainstream. No! It is this move + Pop Century + Dinorama + carnival games + half built parks + all the other lamebrained UN-quality moves that the company is currently doing that is swiftly undoing all the care and building that took place since Lilly named that mouse Mickey. Don’t you see that?
 

WDW first got the desire to have a 'Soaring' type ride even before California Adventure swung up its gates. Over the last couple of years there have been many plans – some of them great – about how to bring the system to WDW in a truly Disney way. And I've posted many of those ideas here.

But there are other forces beside the genuine enjoyment of the guests at work. Every time a concept for 'Soaring' has appeared, it's been discarded solely on the basis of economics. That is the current driving factor behind 'Soaring over The Land (of California)'. It is a decision being made purely on a short term economic and marketing basis that, in the long run and in my opinion, it will hurt WDW more than it will help it.

No one on this board knows what the final outcome will be because no one in Disney knows what the outcome will be. Many rumors turn out to be false because the company changed its mind, not because the "rumor" was incorrect from the start.

Personally I expect (but have no evidence this will actually happen) that the entire "gifts from Disneyland" concept will vanish about the fourth week into ABC's new season. Given the choice between having the lights out go two days a week at Animal Kingdom because of low attendance or having the lights go off at ABC because of low ratings, I feel the company would much rather order up another season of 'Celebrity Mole' than build 'Fliks Fun Fair'.

As for the company not being dumb enough to use the California film in Florida – this is the same group that spent $600 million to build a California themed park when 70% of their customer base is from California. It makes you wonder about their ability to understand the key concepts of the business they've chose to run.

As for Epcot overall – the core concept behind the park is that real world can be just as imaginative, exciting, and interesting as the fantasy world presented in the Magic Kingdom. We can learn as much from other culture as we can learn from fairy tales; the future is the ultimate playground for the imagination (more so because there we can make fantasy a reality). Yes – doing that is a hard thing to do. For the most part Disney was able to pull that off twenty years ago.

But today, they've simply stopped trying. Instead of sparking an interest in the future, we get a modest thrill ride about how the cars of today won’t kill you (much). Instead of exploring the awesome wonders beyond human comprehension to be found in space – we get to revisit the contents of our stomach. And instead of expanding the cultures of the world represented, we would have ended up with another European wine shop.

I don't look to Disney to be simply better than the other guy and I don't look to them as a supplier of pins for a collection. I looked to them as one of the few companies that "got it" and that was both willing and able to create something truly magical (without the registration mark). Until that happens again, I will give up those standards and settle for what they decide to offer.

And I will gladly call myself both "disgruntled" and "ex-" because I feel they left me much more than I left them.


P.S. There are plenty of fans very vocal about how much they love California Adventure. The problem is there aren't enough "fans" to keep Disney alive as a company.
 
Originally posted by Another Voice
The fan base seems to have convinced itself that opening up unfinished parks and "letting them grow" is both historical and a good thing. It's not. The real history and philophy behind Disney is very different and the attendance figures on the smaller park demonstrate without question the public's attitude.

I don't disagree with you, but I just wanted to hear some reactions to the fact that the original Disneyland was, in fact, opened in an unfinished state (especially Tomorrowland). The reasons for that were obviously (at least partially) different, and the ratio of finished to unfinished attractions much more favorable than what happened with, say, the Animal Kingdom or Disney-MGM Studios, but one might nevertheless bring up the argument that Walt himself set the precedent for this type of procedure.
 
And the vast amount of people will willingly accept it. Not necessarily LOVE it, be WOWed by it, but accept it, as you suggest.

Ok back up a minute. We are talking about Soarin' which is the one attraction at CA which apparently meets the standard of excellence you and AV so eloquently reflect upon.

We are talking about showing the same film for this attraction if and when it opens because it is proven to be QUALITY!!!!!

The complaints here are that a film about california doesn't fit the theme or E.P.C.O.T. motif which I say is bull! Imagination stinks! Body Wars is lame! Food Rocks is cute - ONCE! The Mexican ride is weak! And the living seas is very lacking indeed! Experimental what? Future what? Thankfully we're shifting back with Mission Space!

There's always a way to do things. This can work well within your standards indeed!
 
The problem is there aren't enough "fans" to keep Disney alive as a company.

Ahhh - so you agree Pirates success is not due to the Disney fans!
(sorry - couldn't resist)

BTW - it's placed second this weekend - right behind another Disney flick! Go figure!
 
***"The whole point of this thread is that M. Lutz and other web sites 'broke' the story that Disney is contemplating putting the Soarin' ride as is into the Land exhibit at Epcot."***

From the posted link I didn't get the impression it will be an exact clone, but even now,that idea has me thinking:

While I totally enjoyed the Soarin' over Ca film - I'm from Jersey,not CA- one of the main complaints on this board was that even though the ride mech was great,why show a Ca movie when 70% of the riders are from Ca. Wouldn't the same arguement apply to WDW if the film was about FL ? Maybe the CA film isn't such a bad idea.

But I'll still stick to my request for several different films. It would make the ride more interesting.
 
Using logic: Most DCA visitors are from California. Isn't New Jersey the #1 state for visitors to WDW? So it outta be Soarin' over Jersey! Look, it's Jimmy Hoffa.
 
BTW - it's placed second this weekend - right behind another Disney flick! Go figure!
Right, not too bad for that little second class studio outfit that everyone else laughs about in Hollywood ;). Who know's if they can continue at the top o' the box office for much longer, but it is nice to see.

As for Soaring Over the (California) Land in Epcot...........................

I agree with all the points about lack of creativity and leadership, decisions based on $$$$, etc, but in this case it may not "hurt WDW more than it will help it" as much as AV thinks. Really, if the attraction comes as is, nobody will be able to argue that it isn't a quality E-ticket attraction. I have heard nothing but good things about the ride in DCA. Where it could hurt is that is isn't a wenie to entice left coast visitors who have have been to DCA who might want to to come to make the trip to WDW. (but given DCA attendance how many can that be?) Even at that, it would only be a portion of that group that might see no incentive because if they love the ride they may like the opportunity to ride it again in FL while taking in everything else that WDW has to offer. The miserable attendance at DCA means that they probably aren't that many people outside of CA or these kinds of boards who would 1) even know that the ride existed elsewhere, or 2) know it exists in CA but have seen it. So for the vast majority of WDW guests this would be a new and wonderful, quality, E-ticket attraction. How is that going to really "hurt" WDW. How would a new movie hurt less? Afterall, a new movie wouldn't make it a new and innovative ride - so even with a new movie Disney wouldn't be charting new grounds of originality.

I'm not looking for an excuse to say a clone is ok - I think Disney should go for originality - but I would like AV to explain to me how it could "hurt more than help". It statements like that that take good points just that weee little bit too far ;).
 
Right, not too bad for that little second class studio outfit that everyone else laughs about in Hollywood . Who know's if they can continue at the top o' the box office for much longer, but it is nice to see.

Well according to the charts Disney holds the most market share in this industry right now which is certainly gaining attention. Here's the breakdown according to http://www.showbizdata.com/ :

US Marketshares
As of last Monday
Distributor
Grosses
(in millions) Market
Share

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUENA VISTA 929.7 18.13%
WARNER BROS. 749.8 14.62%
SONY 644.2 12.56%
20TH CENTURY FOX 528.6 10.31%
UNIVERSAL 524.7 10.23%
PARAMOUNT 390.1 7.61%
NEW LINE 317.5 6.19%
MIRAMAX 281.3 5.49%
DREAMWORKS 275.1 5.36%
MGM/UA 201.8 3.94%

Others: 285.7 million / 5.56% share.

Total Gross for 2003: $5,128,594,125
 
I don't care if it turns out like the California or another version, just keep the music from the DCA version! It's some of the coolest music out there!
 
Well according to the charts Disney holds the most market share in this industry right now which is certainly gaining attention.
Thanks for the numbers crusader. Actually, most of my comment was a friendly little sarcastic barb tossed in AV's direction as I believe he previously stated that Disney was not considered a major player in the studio business by the Hollywood types. Perhaps that is changing, perhaps it is not. I'm sure AV will interpret the numbers for us.
 
I looked to them as one of the few companies that "got it"
I'm not sure how many companies ever really "get it." Some are started by people with a passion for something, like Walt Disney, but then get taken over by people who are brought in solely for business decisions.

Certainly, Michael Eisner understood the importance of theming and put the chop to plans to build generic hotels and water parks. Walt Disney built things because he had a passion for it - Main Street for example. Now I think everything gets run by the accountants, the lawyers, and the countless focus groups and surveys.

I'm not sure what they were thinking when the came up with the concept for DCA. As someone once said, perhaps most of them hadn't been out of California before and didn't know anything about the world outside the state borders. I remember Eisner being excited about the idea of a theme park based on factories and the workplace. He probably didn't realize, as someone living in the ivory tower of the corporate office, that most of his audience already spent five days a week in a factory or workplace and want to get away from that on their vacations.
 
Yea, especially if you soar over citrus county. :cool:
 
What exactly is the Soarin of California ride that everyone is talking about that Walt Disney World will have I have only heard the name.
 
Picture a huge drive-in movie screen. Now put yourself in a hang glider 20 ft back from the screen. The "glider" movements give the sensation of "soarin" over the CA landscape.At one point you smell oranges a you fly over the groves. I won't go into the details of flying over the LA sewer treatment plant. It' a great ride.
 












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