so you live, work and train in the US....

[bavaria]

Nope but it's a distinctly American thing to be told we SHOULDN'T be proud of our country or to be chastised when we are.

Just look at how many posts have been devoted to my personal devotion to my own country. Seriously, don't you think it's a little bit much?

I disagree.

Ask any of the non-Americans here if they have ever been told or read here that they are anti-American, or that their points are not valid, or many other unpleasant things, simply due to their country of origin.

I think that it is a very insular site these days, as the population here has changed again. That viewpoint doesn't necessarily reflect the reaility in the world.

 

[crashbb]

So my views are extreme? Really? You get that vibe coming from me?

I cannot speak for Bavaria, but I sure as heck do.

Saying that US athletes are THE best, regardless of who wins what medals, is rather extreme.

 

[bavaria]

So my views are extreme? Really? You get that vibe coming from me?

I sincerely hope that your posts are tongue cheek on this thread, with perhaps an objective to entertain, as they do not seem to represent the majority.

If that is truly your viewpoint, you are entitled to it. Realise however that some may disagree, including your own countrymen and women (many of whom have done so on this thread)

 

[LuvOrlando]

I disagree.

Ask any of the non-Americans here if they have ever been told or read here that they are anti-American, or that their points are not valid, or many other unpleasant things, simply due to their country of origin.

I think that it is a very insular site these days, as the population here has changed again. That viewpoint doesn't necessarily reflect the reaility in the world.

None-the-less, look at how many posts here are criticizing me simply because I am all "GO USA!"

The proof is in the pudding so to speak isn't it? BTW, I'm being reactive here, not the other way around. Also, I think I'm being pretty passive about the barbs being tossed my way.

 

[bavaria]

None-the-less, look at how many posts here are criticizing me simply because I am all "GO USA!"

The proof is in the pudding so to speak isn't it? BTW, I'm being reactive here, not the other way around.

Ah, and if the Canadians posted similar things (it isn't just your 'GO USA' by the way that is at issue) they would very quickly be torn down for doing so.

For over a decade I have respected that this website is owned and populated mostly by Americans, and have bitten my tongue very often instead of saying how I (and many other posters) feel on such subjects.

The irony is that patriotism is at odds with my belief system (I will leave it at that so not as to violate the rule about religion and politics) Yet if I say anything mildly supportive of my country of origin many here are very quick to cry foul, or 'anti-American'.

One can be proud of ones own country and still be proud of the achievements of others. Again, they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

So my views are extreme? Really? You get that vibe coming from me?

I was born and raised in the US, and yes, that is the way they are coming across.

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

All I know is GO USA!

Other countries have been using us as a host for ages. They send their kids here to get educated then leave. They come here for medical care then say how bad our way of life is. It doesn't bother me at all because, of course, you go where the best is

All I know is US athletes are the best in the world in my opinion and I'm not the slightest bit apologetic for feeling this way. If someone wants to play for someone else, it's their loss. I won't be cheering them on.

In my world they are THE best. No medals necessary to prove it.

THE US is more tolerant of other people than any other place on this planet and that's why people from every corner of the planet manage to come here, sneak in if necessary, and somehow get along without riots in the streets. When I lived in NYC I knew people from every corner of the world and there we all were getting along at the lunch table, like the UN only better. That is a thing of beauty and that can only happen here:goodvibes

Nope but it's a distinctly American thing to be told we SHOULDN'T be proud of our country or to be chastised when we are.

I can assure you that some of the best doctors are found in the US. Some are not. Some of the best athletes are found in the US. Some are not. Some people in the US are tolerant of other people and cultures. Some are not. The US does not hold a monopoly on the best and the brightest.

I don't think anyone is chastising you for pride in your country. I do think, though, that many people find the comments bolded above to be a bit over the top. Extreme nationalism is not the same as national pride. It is possible to be proud of your nation's achievements while still acknowledging the achievements of others.

 

[crashbb]

I can assure you that some of the best doctors are found in the US. Some are not. Some of the best athletes are found in the US. Some are not. Some people in the US are tolerant of other people and cultures. Some are not. The US does not hold a monopoly on the best and the brightest.

I know it was implied, but just add:

The US does not hold a monopoly on the worst and the dullest, either.

Having issues with an American's jingoistic views, should not be taken as having issues with Americans or the United States.

 

[LuvOrlando]

So let me get this straight, saying my country is the best, in my opinion, without saying anything at all in the least bit disparaging about ANY other athletes or the people who support them is now extreme.

I don't quite know what to say to that or even what to think about the people who assert as much.

 

[PeterPan09]

One can be proud of ones own country and still be proud of the achievements of others. Again, they are not mutually exclusive.

Exactly. I'm extremely proud of my country and our athletes. I was proudly wearing my USA Hockey jersey this weekend, and loved every minute of the US v China Women's game yesterday.

Being proud of my country doesn't make me blind to the amazing stories and acheivements of athletes competing for other countries-and cheering them on as well.

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

I know it was implied, but just add:

The US does not hold a monopoly on the worst and the dullest, either.

Having issues with an American's jingoistic views, should not be taken as having issues with Americans or the United States.

Yes, definitely. I hope no one interpreted my post to say that! America has made many wonderful achievements and contributed greatly to making the world a better place. I think that many non-Americans would just like a bit of acknowledgement that this is a symbiotic relationship rather than a parasitic one.

 

[crashbb]

So let me get this straight, saying my country is the best, in my opinion, without saying anything at all in the least bit disparaging about ANY other athletes or the people who support them is now extreme.

I don't quite know what to say to that or even what to think about the people who assert as much.

Since you live in your own special world, perhaps things are different there. I'll explain to you how things look in "our" world.

How could you possibly say that US athletes are the best without (at least through implication) saying that all other athletes are not as good? How is that not "saying anything at all in the least bit disparaging about ANY other athletes or the people who support them"?

You even corrected someone (sorry, I don't remember the poster's name) who suggested that the US athletes were among the best. Being among the best could be taken as supporting your country's athletes without insulting all other athletes.

To further imply that any medals given out to any non-American athlete were incorrect (after all, if the US athletes are "the best" in spite of the medal count, the medals won by non-American athletes must be illegitimate), is definitely disparaging other athletes.

 

[PeterPan09]

So let me get this straight, saying my country is the best, in my opinion, without saying anything at all in the least bit disparaging about ANY other athletes or the people who support them is now extreme.

I don't quite know what to say to that or even what to think about the people who assert as much.

but we're NOT always the best, no country could possibly be. Sometimes we win, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we do things right, sometimes we don't. We're a nation made up of human beings with free will and that means that we don't always make the best choices, we don't always work the hardest, and things don't always work out for the best for everyone.

True patriotism is loving your country as it is in reality. Acknowledging both what is actually is the best and where improvements can be made. True patriots know that their country has the ability to be the best, but they also know that that goal is still out there to be achieved in some instances. True patriots also know that there are other "bests" out there, and that it doesn't reduce their love for their own country to acknowledge that "best" doesn't only exist within their own borders.

 

[crashbb]

Yes, definitely. I hope no one interpreted my post to say that! America has made many wonderful achievements and contributed greatly to making the world a better place. I think that many non-Americans would just like a bit of acknowledgement that this is a symbiotic relationship rather than a parasitic one.

I didn't interpret your post that way, I just wanted to make it very clear. To be fair, I think that most Americans do see it as a symbiotic relationship (as evidenced by most posters on this thread).

I know that it is historic (and not at all related to sports), but I love that Halifax still sends Boston a Christmas Tree every year. And that the Netherlands still sends Ottawa thousands of tulips each year.

 

[nuke]

the only "best" that any of the athletes from any country can acheive is their personal best. These kids give their all in these games and I give credit to each and every one of them regardless of where they were born or where they choose to train.
My goodness there is national pride but please don't confuse that with we're #1 and screw everyone else.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Exactly. I'm extremely proud of my country and our athletes. I was proudly wearing my USA Hockey jersey this weekend, and loved every minute of the US v China Women's game yesterday.

Being proud of my country doesn't make me blind to the amazing stories and acheivements of athletes competing for other countries-and cheering them on as well.

Exactly.

To put it in even simpler, more at home terms, think of kid's sports.

As a kid, you are taught to win, but to win graciously. You lose (which everybody eventually will do some day - Even Tiger Woods and Michael Phelps are not always the best) graciously. You appreciate the talent and effort that either gave you a run for your money or actually beat you.

As a parent, I am extremely proud of my kids' teams. I buy the parent support clothing and proudly wear it. But, if another player on the other team makes a fabulous play, a great score, then every parent on the teams I have been associated with will applaud that kid and yell out "nice catch, nice play, etc"

It is called sportsmanship.

Blindly supporting your team or country without sportsmanship or acknowledgment of others successes makes you "one of those" parents or "one of those" Americans.

We share this planet with a multitude of people and globally we are getting smaller and smaller. It behooves us to think in a more "us" mentality than the "me, me" mentality that some seem to have. You can still be proud of your country without thinking that everybody else is second best.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I feel that America's wealth allows us to excel in areas like athletics. I am a patriot in a time in which patriotism is a dirty word, but I am opposed to nationalism. In other words, I love America, but that doesn't mean that I think that America is better than other nations in every way. We have our flaws, just as other nations have flaws.

In the Winter Olympics, I watch for beauty rather than excellence. These are not sports that I watch at any other time. During the Summer Olympics, I am more interested in excellence, as the sports involved are of the type that engage my attention throughout the year. In all Olympics, I pull for the USA...

 

[joviroxx]

Really, sometimes the most innocuous things cause the oddest arguments.....

 

[PeterPan09]

Exactly.

To put it in even simpler, more at home terms, think of kid's sports.

As a kid, you are taught to win, but to win graciously. You lose (which everybody eventually will do some day - Even Tiger Woods and Michael Phelps are not always the best) graciously. You appreciate the talent and effort that either gave you a run for your money or actually beat you.

As a parent, I am extremely proud of my kids' teams. I buy the parent support clothing and proudly wear it. But, if another player on the other team makes a fabulous play, a great score, then every parent on the teams I have been associated with will applaud that kid and yell out "nice catch, nice play, etc"

It is called sportsmanship.

Blindly supporting your team or country without sportsmanship or acknowledgment of others successes makes you "one of those" parents or "one of those" Americans.

We share this planet with a multitude of people and globally we are getting smaller and smaller. It behooves us to think in a more "us" mentality than the "me, me" mentality that some seem to have. You can still be proud of your country without thinking that everybody else is second best.

I was lucky to have had wonderful coaches as a child that really instilled the value of sportsmanship in us. From my earliest days on swim team, we were taught to shake hands with the other kids in our race no matter where we placed. If someone smoked you, you made sure that you shook that person's hand and showed no signs of sulking or you'd be swimming extra laps next practice. We learned quickly that everyone, on every team was practicing as hard as we were and winning meant just as much to them as it did to us. I can still remember how cool it felt when you did win a race and the first person to shake your hand was the kid from the other team that you just beat. Didn't feel as great to be on the other side, but it did make me work harder.

Sadly, I don't see that as much today. There's way too much of "we're so much better than they are" and viewing the competition as the enemy-not as someone to challenge you to improve. I've overheard some conversations from the age group swimmers and the parents at my club that really make me sad for them-but happy that I don't have to compete in that environment.

 

[Sarah_Rose]

*sigh* We can all argue this here on a specialized online forum (that has nothing to do with sport, except for the fact that it is occasionally discussed in one of many of the sub-forums), but it doesn't make a bit of difference because the actual athletes are not concerned at all about international training.

I attended the University of Calgary for 4 years - the Calgary Olympic Oval from the 1988 Olympics is located on the campus and is still considered one of the top indoor training facilities in the world. While at the U of C, I lived and breathed the Oval; I did all of my studying, reading for classes, ate my lunch there. If an international competition was on, I would often skip my classes and spend the entire day there. I had "Oval friends" (who I never saw anywhere outside the Oval) who did the same. And I also had the privilege, as a student of the university, to use the long track ice for public skating from 12:00-1:00; I did so every day that the ice was open to the public during my 4 years at the university. The best days were the days that there were only a few public skaters and they kept the outside lane open to the competitive skaters. Being on the ice with some of the best long-track speed skaters in the world is a thrill that I really can't describe. The highlight of my 4 years at the U of C was the day that Catriona le May Doan ran into my feet as I was sitting on a bench taking my skates off; she gave me a dismissive "sorry" without looking back. It was awesome.

Anyway, my point is that I knew the Oval and I felt like I got a good and accurate picture of the athletes that skated there. Most were Canadian, but there were also many US, Dutch, French, British, Chinese, and Korean athletes who were there on a daily basis; some took classes at the university, others were there strictly to train. They all shared coaches, hung out together and chatted while they weren't on the ice (and were waiting for us schlubs to get our sorry butts off the ice right at 1:00), and discussed their gear and training. You would often see two (or more) skaters from different countries on the ice helping each other out with a technique. This is why people from all over the world travel to their sport "hot spots" - the best facilities, the best coaches, and the feeling that comes from training with the best in your sport. The skaters all knew they would be competing with each other in the next international competition (but then again, you're also competing against your own countrymen) and there were no hard feelings. The international atmosphere was one of the reasons that I loved the Oval so much.

Athletes compete for their home countries, but I don't think there should be any bitterness from us about where they train. There are only so many world-class training facilities in the world.... ideally, you'd want to train in one close to home, but that's not always possible.