So why did they decide to rearrange the points for 2010?

[White_Sox_Fan]

I tend to have a slightly less cynical outlook on it and trust me I'm a fairly skeptical person. As I stated in another thread, I do believe this was done to equal out occupancy and that is a benefit to us as owners.

If a room is empty that means 1) there are members out there not using their points, therefore losing their personel benefit or 2) members have traded out there points and the room is not booked for cash, this effects everyone else in that we as DVC members have traded those points into cash for the benefit of that individual with no return of that cash thus increasing our dues.

Disney also benefits by have as much occupancy as they can get but I don't think this was the primary reason for the reallocation. I would be curious to know what percentage of the total money spent at WDW is from DVC owners (excluding sales). Is it that significant? With all the new units coming on line it is going to increase, but of course they are making no income on the rooms.

 

[MickeyMcMouse]

Please forgive me if this has been mentioned in the many other threads that have sprung up since this change has been mentioned (not got enough spare days to try and read them all ),

but if this change has been caused by many people only booking sun - thurs trips, wouldn't it have been simplier to offer DVC members a much more attractive cash price for fri, sat stays which could then be linked to your points stay allowing you to stay in your room, but not use the vast amount of points that a weeks stay requires ?

This way, there is no change to people who book 7+ days stay, but most importantly for Disney ,it fills rooms that might be empty if some members move off site during the fri sat period creating income for empty rooms and also retaining customers on site for longer periods.

Everybody would be happy - no ?

David

 

[Chuck S]

Please forgive me if this has been mentioned in the many other threads that have sprung up since this change has been mentioned (not got enough spare days to try and read them all ),

but if this change has been caused by many people only booking sun - thurs trips, wouldn't it have been simplier to offer DVC members a much more attractive cash price for fri, sat stays which could then be linked to your points stay allowing you to stay in your room, but not use the vast amount of points that a weeks stay requires ?

This way, there is no change to people who book 7+ days stay, but most importantly for Disney ,it fills rooms that might be empty if some members move off site during the fri sat period creating income for empty rooms and also retaining customers on site for longer periods.

Everybody would be happy - no ?

David

No, it would not be possible to simply give a fire sale cash price to equal out occupancy on weekends. Cash inventory comes from either trades to non-DVC locations, or breakage (meaning they are not reserved on points at 60 days out). If they simply took DVC point inventory rooms before the breakage period and reserved them for cash, they would have illegally oversold the resort.

 

[DebbieB]

No, it would not be possible to simply give a fire sale cash price to equal out occupancy on weekends. Cash inventory comes from either trades to non-DVC locations, or breakage (meaning they are not reserved on points at 60 days out). If they simply took DVC point inventory rooms before the breakage period and reserved them for cash, they would have illegally oversold the resort.

I think that maybe where the reason is. They have not been able to get many empty cash rooms occupied on weekends at a full cash rate, only with discounts. So this move is to have more occupied rooms with points on weekends, making cash rooms more scarce and be able to get a higher rate. It would also open up more weekday cash rooms, where they maybe more likely to get them occupied.

I think it was brought up at the annual meeting about why are there cash rooms available through CRO with no points rooms available. This move may even that out.

Regardless of the reason, I think they owe a more detailed explanation.

 

[MickeyMcMouse]

No, it would not be possible to simply give a fire sale cash price to equal out occupancy on weekends. Cash inventory comes from either trades to non-DVC locations, or breakage (meaning they are not reserved on points at 60 days out). If they simply took DVC point inventory rooms before the breakage period and reserved them for cash, they would have illegally oversold the resort.

Ah, thanks for quick reply Chuck knew there would have to be a reason - so hypothetically, if a member was booking 2 sun/thurs days in succession, and there "was" cash inventory available would it be a positive move for member services to offer a "good" cash deal when the booking took place, to link both the points resevations ?

David

 

[HookdonWDW]

Here's something I think that many of those who are upset by the reallocation aren't thinking about:

Part of the reason to have a reallocation is to keep things in balance, and keep bookings as close to 100% as possible. Most of us have heard that stated here repeatedly. But the part that hasn't really been discussed (I think because many of us think that it is intuitive), is what would happen if DVC didn't adjust the point charts, and weekdays continued to become more popular as rooms sit empty on weekends.

DVC sells everyone their points based on their needs. If point values are balanced, people use their points at a variety of times during the year - those with kids/families may be willing to spend extra points to stay during school breaks, those without other commitments may travel during less popular times because they want the points savings, and those who like to travel during traditionally busy periods will spend what's required for their stays. But now the points are out of balance. People who would usually stay during a vacation week can get the weekend, but not weekdays. If they live further away, given current points costs, it may not be worth going if they can't get their week. So they bank their points for another time. Someone who lives locally can go for long weekends, but when they look at how many points it costs, it just doesn't make sense. So locals don't book up those extra weekends. Members start looking at weekend points and realize that it works "better" for them to pay cash for weekends and use their points on weeknights. The balance is set off further.

After a few years of this, what are we left with?

• Rooms are sitting empty on weekends
• DVC can't get rid of all of the breakage rooms available on weekends
• Members can't use all of their points, due to lack of availability

And there's the big rub - eventually people will start losing their points because they've already banked, and they still can't get the week they want. Or even if they can get it "somewhere", they can't get in exactly where they want, when they want. Owner satisfaction goes down. For a while, people will probably trade to RCI or for a cruise, but we all know that you lose point value with that - if members have to do this on a regular basis to keep from losing their points, satisfaction goes down, and more people are upset. People rent out points they can't use, and that solves some of the problem, but it probably adds more to the stress of weekday points than it alleviates. Check out the Rent/Trade board and look at how many of those looking for reservations want just weekday reservations. Now we have a whole new group messing up room availability.

If something wasn't done, this had the potential of snowballing into something that would eventually become untenable. People simply wouldn't be able to get into DVC because although there was weekend availability, weekdays were booked up. I'm sure it's already happening - remember, not everyone reads the Boards and know to book at 11 and 7 months out. It's becoming near impossible to get any reservation at 2-3 months out at certain times of the year. Something had to give. Personally, I'm surprised they didn't adjust the points charts sooner.

I'm more bothered about the changes to the wait list than I am to the points chart changes. I know that change is hard to get used to - we get comfortable with our routines. But in this case, I think it was necessary to avoid a potentially larger problem. I wouldn't be surprised if we see further adjustments to weekday v. weekend points until usage is evened out. JMHO YMMV.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

HookdonWDW, well stated and I agree 100%.

 

[Nikisha421]

To sum it up:

All point-based timeshares have an obligation to keep supply and demand in balance as much as possible. Apparently, too many people were booking Sun-Thur and not enough people were booking Fri-Sat, creating an imbalance. Point-based timeshares are designed to be at nearly 100% capacity every day.

I'm surprised it took DVC this long to reallocate points.

what other timeshare is point based???

 

[Dean]

what other timeshare is point based???

Shell, RCI points, Bluegreen, Wyndham, Hilton, Hyatt to name a few.

After a few years of this, what are we left with?
Rooms are sitting empty on weekends
DVC can't get rid of all of the breakage rooms available on weekends
Members can't use all of their points, due to lack of availability

Actually that is happening now and has been for a few years though more lately from what I'm hearing. That's one of the reasons why exchange options are so expensive.

 

[photobob]

Here's something I think that many of those who are upset by the reallocation aren't thinking about:

Part of the reason to have a reallocation is to keep things in balance, and keep bookings as close to 100% as possible. Most of us have heard that stated here repeatedly. But the part that hasn't really been discussed (I think because many of us think that it is intuitive), is what would happen if DVC didn't adjust the point charts, and weekdays continued to become more popular as rooms sit empty on weekends.

DVC sells everyone their points based on their needs. If point values are balanced, people use their points at a variety of times during the year - those with kids/families may be willing to spend extra points to stay during school breaks, those without other commitments may travel during less popular times because they want the points savings, and those who like to travel during traditionally busy periods will spend what's required for their stays. But now the points are out of balance. People who would usually stay during a vacation week can get the weekend, but not weekdays. If they live further away, given current points costs, it may not be worth going if they can't get their week. So they bank their points for another time. Someone who lives locally can go for long weekends, but when they look at how many points it costs, it just doesn't make sense. So locals don't book up those extra weekends. Members start looking at weekend points and realize that it works "better" for them to pay cash for weekends and use their points on weeknights. The balance is set off further.

After a few years of this, what are we left with?

• Rooms are sitting empty on weekends
• DVC can't get rid of all of the breakage rooms available on weekends
• Members can't use all of their points, due to lack of availability

And there's the big rub - eventually people will start losing their points because they've already banked, and they still can't get the week they want. Or even if they can get it "somewhere", they can't get in exactly where they want, when they want. Owner satisfaction goes down. For a while, people will probably trade to RCI or for a cruise, but we all know that you lose point value with that - if members have to do this on a regular basis to keep from losing their points, satisfaction goes down, and more people are upset. People rent out points they can't use, and that solves some of the problem, but it probably adds more to the stress of weekday points than it alleviates. Check out the Rent/Trade board and look at how many of those looking for reservations want just weekday reservations. Now we have a whole new group messing up room availability.

If something wasn't done, this had the potential of snowballing into something that would eventually become untenable. People simply wouldn't be able to get into DVC because although there was weekend availability, weekdays were booked up. I'm sure it's already happening - remember, not everyone reads the Boards and know to book at 11 and 7 months out. It's becoming near impossible to get any reservation at 2-3 months out at certain times of the year. Something had to give. Personally, I'm surprised they didn't adjust the points charts sooner.

I'm more bothered about the changes to the wait list than I am to the points chart changes. I know that change is hard to get used to - we get comfortable with our routines. But in this case, I think it was necessary to avoid a potentially larger problem. I wouldn't be surprised if we see further adjustments to weekday v. weekend points until usage is evened out. JMHO YMMV.

I understand and your points are very well made, but it still doesn't change they fact the my points won't go as far as they did before. I really do understand the need for this to be done, but it is hard for me to be happy when I have to either stay less days or buy more points.

 

[HookdonWDW]

Actually that is happening now and has been for a few years though more lately from what I'm hearing. That's one of the reasons why exchange options are so expensive.

I agree Dean. I was trying to show what has happened after a few (well, much more than a "few!) years of this mentality. I think reallocation was necessary, and it would be irresponsible for management to continue to turn a blind eye to the abundance of rooms sitting empty on weekends.

 

[CarolAnnC]

We will now direct everyone to This Thread for discussion on the 2010 point changes. Thank you!