So, who has led since Eisner....and do we like him/her?

You really think so?

I think if you draw a line and mark one end managerial leadership and the other creative leadership Eisner would skew very far towards creative. He would be much more comforable with a script than a cash flow analysis.
 
Welcome to the thread Fire Dancer but I'm pretty sure you've just caused DVC Landbaron's head to explode.
pirate:
 
Sorry I'm so long in answering. I had to pick up the pieces of my exploding head!!!!

Just for kicks Mr. Dancer, can you name one thing - any little thing - that can back up your claim that Ei$ner was in the least bit "CREATIVE"? Go on. Try. Have fun with it.

See you in a couple days, when you finally have to admit defeat!!
 

I would say more so that in his early days he was good at picking out a creative script and approving it. As his days moved on, he passed on LOTR, Lost, 6th sense, etc. All of which was because he was concerned about financials
 
Down and Out in Beverly Hills is one. But still I don't agree with zulemara. He didn't pass on good movies because they cost too much--after all, he was still making Armegeddon and Pearl Harbor.
 
As A-V has pointed out before, "Magic" doesn't just happen, it was created by creative individuals. Eisner killed Imagineering and Disney Feature Animation.
 
Name one.

I'll be honest, my mind is so full of info from Disney War that I'm gonna have to re-read and take notes...not just for this thread but also so I can present facts to anyone I meet who is interested. Didn't he greenlight Lion King? I believe he had a couple good hits when he was with NBC like mork and mindy and...don't remember the other one.
 
Let me clarify what I mean by creative. In the entertainment industry the background of a CEO can be one of two things, creative or managerial. Eisner was president of Paramount’s movie studio and programming director for ABC, thus making him creative. To contrast, lets say Jack Welch becomes CEO of Disney, he would have a very strong managerial background, but has never held a creative role in the entertainment industry.

If I recall correctly there is a paragraph in Disney War about Eisner’s first meeting with the then CFO of Disney. I remember it was on a plane and there is a remark about Michael asking elementary financial questions about the Disney balance sheets. It goes as far as saying the CFO (who’s name eludes me at the moment) though he was a moron. I never said Eisner was all that innovative but if you classify a CEO as either managerial or creative, which is how I would in the entertainment industry, I would put Eisner in the creativity bucket.


An example of creativity on Eisner’s behalf would be breaching the Tishman contract and deciding to build the resorts themselves. Being that he was CEO during the “Disney Decade” even the projects lead by Katzenberg or Schumacher had to ultimately be green lit by him. Deciding to purchase and renovate a theater in Times Square would also be a creative move seeing that most analysts said it wouldn’t work.

A good rule of thumb would be to put Eisner in a totally different industry as CEO and see if he could do the job. A good CEO can run any company, period. Eisner would probably fall flat on his face if he tried to run anything not in the entertainment industry. And to pre-empt what I am sure will be said, yes he fell on his face in the end but he ran Disney for over 20 years and not all of them were bad.
 
An example of creativity on Eisner’s behalf would be breaching the Tishman contract and deciding to build the resorts themselves.
Excuse me!! I'm going to have to take a few minutes here. It seems my head exploded again!! I have to pick up the pieces!!
 

A good rule of thumb would be to put Eisner in a totally different industry as CEO and see if he could do the job. A good CEO can run any company, period. Eisner would probably fall flat on his face if he tried to run anything not in the entertainment industry. And to pre-empt what I am sure will be said, yes he fell on his face in the end but he ran Disney for over 20 years and not all of them were bad.


That's standard MBA Boilerplate. It's also utter bull.

As for whether or not Eisner was a creative person. Well, he certainly thought of himself as one.
He wasn't in any real sense though.
 
That's standard MBA Boilerplate. It's also utter bull.

I think we will have to just agree to disagree on this one. I would put someone like Warren Buffett at the head of any company in the world and feel comfortable regardless of their underlying product.

Excuse me!! I'm going to have to take a few minutes here. It seems my head exploded again!! I have to pick up the pieces!!

You asked for an example so I gave you one. The uncreative thing to do would have been to let Tishman build the standard box of a hotel they had planned on. The creative decision would be to build hotels that were themselves destinations.

The Euro Disney project was also very creative. It was a financial and political disaster and should have never been built where it was but the architecture of the castle and entrance way with the hotel are spectacularly creative.

Eisner’s creativity was just one small point in what I said so I am not going to continue an endless debate. I don’t even think Eisner was all that good of a CEO to be honest. I merely stated that if you had to choose a bucket to put his managerial style in and one was labeled creative and one labeled managerial, I would chose creative.

I personally don’t think the CEO should be the creative head of Disney. A CEO has one job, that is to increase the wealth of share holders. I think the daily running of divisions (such as them parks or feature animation) should be done by other people. Going back to my example of Jack Welch, how many pilots do you think he green lit for NBC? Do you think Jeff Immelt sits in on pitch meetings for NBC or Universal or chooses which rides Universal Studios will build?

 
Firedancer, your example of Buffet as the CEO who can lead any company regardless of what business they are in is spot on. Afterall, he somehow has managed to be successful in ice cream, insurance, flooring, and a host of other companies. Yes I learned in Finance 101 that a good CEO can lead any company, one needs to look no further than the 2nd richest man in the world to find the truth in that statement.

Was Eisner the creative genius of a generation, no. But if it wasnt his creativity that the company sought when they hired him, then what was it? They could have hired anyone to lead a business, why Eisner? If not Eisner, then who? In today's terms, if not Iger then who? You know, if things are this bad, maybe I should look into buying the savedisney domain name from Shamrock:goodvibes
 
In today's terms, if not Iger then who? You know, if things are this bad, maybe I should look into buying the savedisney domain name from Shamrock:goodvibes

That is the Million Dollar Question! I don’t know what the final outcome of the Iger era will be. I guess it is a lot easier to look back and second guess than to look forward and project.

Having the title of Chief Creative Officer is a good start and I think John Lasseter is the perfect person to hold it. I think that Iger or whom ever is CEO should handle the management of the company and let other people handle the creativity. I guess in my ideal world there would be a Frank Wells as CEO, a Walt Disney as CCO, and an independent Board of Directors to keep the drama to a minimum.

As far as the domain name goes, it all depends on whether Iger’s ego will let him walk away when he should instead of cling to the position for 10 years too long as his predecessor did.

He somehow has managed to be successful in ice cream, insurance, flooring, and a host of other companies.


To steal a line from Walt…we must always remember that it all started with a failing textile company.
 
I glued my head back together so I'll respond;

I'll agree that Ei$ner was in the creative bucket based on your definition but I will say he was terrible at it and not very creative and someone should have "kicked the bucket" long ago!

I don't have a problem agreeing with those that say that Disney must evolve and we are in a different era and tastes and likes do change. Afterall, Walt is dead ( a shocker I know;) ) and a creative genius like him doesn't come around too often. Nobody with 100% certainty can ever know what he would do if around today and that's ok, they don't have to. I don't think people here are saying that Disney should remain 100% stuck in the 50's or 60's like when Walt was around. That would be unrealistic too and not what is being argued. What I have a problem with is the apparent change in direction away from a basic philosophy that Walt instituted...a philosophy that he lived and breathed and put into everything he did. Certainly Disney is a different financial animal today then it was in Walt's era and I think most know that. But when money is THE deciding factor and how can things be done cheaper to maximize profit...that's where the rub is.

Disney is still making money as pointed out. I may be completely wrong but I think ultimately this change in base philosophy will eventually come back to bite them! I guess only time will tell?:confused3
 
OK! That was a bad one! My poor head went into a million little pieces. Anyway…

I would put someone like Warren Buffett at the head of any company in the world and feel comfortable regardless of their underlying product.
I’m not sure I would, but I get your point. So for argument’s sake let’s say – I would too.

Conversely, I wouldn’t put Ei$ner in charge of a bake sale for the PTA!! He’d screw it up! Why? Because he is INEPT!!!! He thinks he is creative, but he hasn’t got a clue!!

The uncreative thing to do would have been to let Tishman build the standard box of a hotel they had planned on. The creative decision would be to build hotels that were themselves destinations.
The DISNEY creative thing to do would have been to NOT put those monstrosities within the sightlines of EPCOT! The creative thing to do would have been letting DISNEY imagineers THEME the those horrible structures in Dinsey-style instead of thinking he was God’s gift to the architecture world. It was a moronic, ego driven move from a VERY UN-creative guy. And the very antithesis of Walt’s Philosophy. Yet you used it as an example of his creativity. I don’t get it.

The Euro Disney project was also very creative.
Yes. As a concept (something he had NOTHING to do with) it was very creative.
It was a financial and political disaster and should have never been built where it was…
And who caused that “financial and political disaster”? Yes folks!! You guessed!! Your creative COE and mine… The one, the only – Mr. Inept himself!!! Ei$ner!!!!!

It was his ‘creative input’ that set the stage for the financial disaster that would follow. And while we’re piling on, who picked the location!? Yep! Right again!! The same “Creative” moron!!

I merely stated that if you had to choose a bucket to put his managerial style in and one was labeled creative and one labeled managerial, I would chose creative.
OH! I see what happened here. You are assuming that since he was a COE, he must be competent. It’s a given that he can run a company. The only question remaining then is what “bucket” to put him in. That’s why you omitted the third bucket. And the only one where Ei$ner belongs. The GARBAGE bucket. Because it really doesn’t matter if he you label him creative or managerial. His true label is simple INEPT. He was ROTTEN at running Disney and he was ROTTEN at running Paramount before that.
I don’t even think Eisner was all that good of a CEO to be honest.
At last we agree!!
 
But if it wasnt his creativity that the company sought when they hired him, then what was it?
It was simple.

Ron Miller and most people inside Disney pre-1984 knew that Disney had to re-establish itself as a serious player in Hollywood. That's why Ron Miller started Touchstone Pictures, why he restructured Animation after The Black Caldron fiasco and why he hired an unknown director (Ron Howard) to put an unknown television actor (Tom Hanks) into a little unknown soon to be mega blockbuster movie called Splash.

This plan was so obvious that even Roy Disney could follow it. So when Roy and the Bass Brothers made their take over attempt on Disney, they went shopping for someone with strong Hollywood 'street cred'.

They found Frank Wells.

He had been running the business side of Warner Brothers and had successfully turned that company around. Frank had always had a soft spot in his heart for Disney and leapt at the chance. But Frank knew that he was strictly on the business and creative side of Hollywood. Disney was going to need the 'let's do lunch', 'have your people call my people', 'get Lindsay another hooker, a pound of blow and get her on the set'! kind of Hollywood type. These people are the connection to the real "creative" forces around town, the ones that could convince/con/swindle/intimidate actors, directors, producers and lessor types to work on a studios project. Think Ari from 'Entourage'.

As luck would have it, Michael Eisner was available because he had just been fired from Paramount. (Note: I'm writing this from memory, I'll have to go back and check some sources so I'll correct any mistakes in the chronology that I find).

Michael Eisner had achieved some early success in low rent television shows like 'Laverne and Shirley'. He parlayed that into claiming credit for 'Flash Dance'. Always a smooth operator, he maneuvered up to a post at Paramount Studios working for Barry Diller.

At that job, Eisner was a disaster. He was put in charge of creating Paramount Television, a then new "fourth network". It was to be anchored by Star Trek - The New Voyages. But Eisner was unable to assemble people to make shows for the new network. He was unable to secure stations or buy airtime. Star Trek ran up millions in expenses without a single second of tape. Diller and Paramount owners Gulf+Western pulled the plug on the network. A few days later Eisner held a press conference to announce the launch of the new network and Star Trek to the press.

Oopps.

To salvage something from the mess, others at Paramount turned the 'Star Trek' television series into Stat Trek: The Motion Picture. It soon became on of the most expensive movies ever made in Hollywood up unto that time. Things were so bad that there is a Hollywood story of an unknown assistant (named Jeffery Katzenberg) that everyone called Michael's dog (I think the real nickname was 'Labrador', but I'll have to check). Things were running so badly on the production that Katzenberg was unspooling reels of freshly developed film on the floor of a soundstage, so it could dry into time to make the first public showing at the Chinese Theater on Hollywood Blvd. the very next morning.

Eisner continued on at Paramount, but he had lost the confidence of Barry Diller. Then he lost the confidence of Gulf+Western. Sensing that something was up, Eisner went job hunting. Roy Disney too was running out of time. He had secured millions from the Bass Brothers, but need more money to close the deal. Wall Street was demanding to see a plan before they handed over anymore cash.

So Disney settled for Eisner. In what should have been a signal of what was to come, Eisner immediately made ego-driven demands. He wanted to report to the board, not Frank Wells (the comprise was that both Eisner and Wells reported only to the board). Eisner didn't want to be co-president. Frank, not one for titles, agreed because he fully expected to be running the day-to-day operations anyway.

Roy Disney was happy because he could present a "seasoned" management team to Wall Street. The Master of the Universe MBA suits back east know nothing of Hollywood and even less of Eisner's history. They bought the story faster than they bought up junk mortgages.

The rest is history.



Welcome to the boards Mr. Dancer. You still have a lot of learning to do about Hollywood.
 
Thanks AV. I was going to tell the story myself, but I couldn't remember all the details. And you do it soooooooo much better anyway!!
 
you guys really continue to fascinate me with the history. Even reading a book, I don't take that much away and the book only covers certain things. People I know come to me to be the "walking book" about everything Disney. It's amazing how much I'm learning.

Question for you guys: Are there any publications on the history of operations at WDW. Disney War has talked primarily about films and such up to this point with only a few references to EPCOT or DLP. I'm interesting in reading the history of decision making regarding the WDW resort.
 

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