So, when is enough, enough-high risk pregnancy?

[tlbwriter]

No, no, no. No one said that a person who is pro-choice must be in favor of large families.

See post 107:

When someone who says they're pro choice starts making comments about other women who choose to have large families, they are no longer pro choice.

That's what I was responding to. I do not dispute this woman's right to choose the size of her family. But I feel it was a poor choice, based on her previous history and her present circumstances.

 

[rie'smom]

Sure, I respect their right to choose. But I have my own right to believe they have made a bad choice. What's so difficult about that?

To disagree is your choice.
It all boils down to respect. Those who are pro choice don't want it want it said that they believe in murdering a baby and those who choose to have large families don't want to be compared to rabbits. As I posted, I respect women who make either choice.

 

[tlbwriter]

To disagree is your choice.
It all boils down to respect. Those who are pro choice don't want it want it said that they believe in murdering a baby and those who choose to have large families don't want to be compared to rabbits. As I posted, I respect women who make either choice.

But you don't seem to respect those who feel it's irresponsible to have a large family. You're being a hypocrite. Telling someone who supports choice but opposes large families (in general, or in this particular case) that they are obviously "for abortion" is neither true nor respectful.

 

[Nancyg56]

It's also hard to know if she is having problems that just give her a risk of early delivery or seriously put her health at risk. I work with premature babies, so, don't get me wrong, it makes me very sad to see people at a risk of delivering prematurly. But, I think its a very different issue if she is also putting her life at significant risk given those other seven children.

My sister works as a respiratory therapist in a children's hospital, usually in the NICU and the PICU. She has to do the treatments on babies and it breaks her heart.

You take a chance that you could leave your child motherless every time you get in a car to go somewhere, that doesn't mean you sit at home and stare at each other.

You have no right to judge anyone for their choices. If you can't be supportive, then I'd keep my mouth shut.

Okay, apples and oranges. One choice is to deliberately put your life at risk and that of your unborn baby. Far different from being in the wrong place at the wrong time


i have a cousin's son and DIL have eight kids. Every pregnancy was high risk, every other pregnancy resulted in premature birth with the baby having significant issues and months in the hospital. The mother's Dr told her repeatedly that her pregnancies could cost her life. They both have high incomes adn can afford teh children, they never ask for assistance except for the normal babysitting friends and family provide. I never said anything as I felt that while I thought that risking the life of the mother, leaving the other children was irresponsible, my opinion was not asked.

Anyway, my DD has only one child. Kady had issues from her birth and while we would have welcomed more grandchildren my DD and DSIL chose not to take a chance with more babies. My cousin felt the need to quote from the Bible to me, chastised my DD for being selfish, and told me I was a lousy catolic because we all did not trust that God would take care.

as I said, I never shared what my opinion was but at that point I had had enough. I respect large families and personal choices. i do not respect when couples put blinders on as their premature babies struggle for life for months, all the while working on the next addition to teir family. Knowing that this baby may be faced with the struggle. Babies feel pain and all of the treatments, tubes and medication is painful. They have no choice, and no voice. Adults should think about the consequences of their decisions on those who face those consequences. I understand wanting more children but I cannot understand deliberately choosing to create life knowing that you may die taking the baby with you and leaving 7 more babies without a Mother.

Again, do as you wish, it is not my decision and not n=my business. i would not do it. I would help the family in any way that I could though.

 

[luvsJack]

But you don't seem to respect those who feel it's irresponsible to have a large family. You're being a hypocrite. Telling someone who supports choice but opposes large families (in general, or in this particular case) that they are obviously "for abortion" is neither true nor respectful.

How can you say you are pro-choice if you oppose someone's right to bear children?

If you say, "I am pro-choice. I support your right to have an abortion but I DO NOT support your right to have 8 kids", then you are in fact "pro-abortion" not "pro-choice".

You can think it is irresponsible all you want to, but that is your opinion. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just an opinion.

 

[Pigeon]

How can you say you are pro-choice if you oppose someone's right to bear children?

If you say, "I am pro-choice. I support your right to have an abortion but I DO NOT support your right to have 8 kids", then you are in fact "pro-abortion" not "pro-choice".

You can think it is irresponsible all you want to, but that is your opinion. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just an opinion.

I haven't seen anyone opposing anyone's right to have massive numbers of offspring. In fact, I think everyone who has posted on this thread agrees that it should be any woman's right to have as many offspring as she choses.

How hard is that to grasp?

 

[tlbwriter]

How can you say you are pro-choice if you oppose someone's right to bear children?

Exactly where did I say I oppose anyone's right to bear children?

If you say, "I am pro-choice. I support your right to have an abortion but I DO NOT support your right to have 8 kids", then you are in fact "pro-abortion" not "pro-choice".

You can think it is irresponsible all you want to, but that is your opinion. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just an opinion.

You don't get it. I think it's her right to make that choice. I can still think it was a stupid choice, but I would never support anyone who wanted to take that right away from her. Being American means having the right to make stupid choices. And it also means having the right to say "Hey, that was a stupid choice you made there."

 

[luvsJack]

I haven't seen anyone opposing anyone's right to have massive numbers of offspring. In fact, I think everyone who has posted on this thread agrees that it should be any woman's right to have as many offspring as she choses.

How hard is that to grasp?

I grasp quite well, thank you. No reason to get snippy.


I was simply responding to a comment the poster made about being against large families.

Again, its the judgmental way that things are said that makes it appear that some are against this right to choose.

 

[tlbwriter]

Again, its the judgmental way that things are said that makes it appear that some are against this right to choose.

There are a lot of judgmental posts flying around, I'd say...

 

[robinb]

You don't get it. I think it's her right to make that choice. I can still think it was a stupid choice, but I would never support anyone who wanted to take that right away from her. Being American means having the right to make stupid choices. And it also means having the right to say "Hey, that was a stupid choice you made there."

Exactly.

I am also pro-choice and I have to say that I think that many women (including some that I have known) have made very poor choices when it comes to their fertility and/or fecundity (I think that's the right word). I don't agree with many of the reasons why women have abortions. For instance, I think getting an abortion for gender selection is a stupid choice. I also think that someone who continues to get pregnant and having babies after having sever pregnancy-related complications is making a stupid choice. I'm an equal opportunity critic.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Nonsense. I think abortion should be safe and legal. That makes me pro-choice. I may or may not think having one is a good choice in any particular case, but I respect that it is the woman's right to make that decision. In this case, one may or may not think it's a good idea for the woman to breed like a rabbit, but it is still her right do do so, as it should be. Pro-choice does not mean that you have to agree with the decisions people have made about reproduction, just that you think that decision should be up to them.

I
I very much agree with the bolded I am pro-choice because i think what a woman does with her body should be legally up to her. I think that my views on the matter wchould not force anyone to have or not have an aborion or to have or not have children or whatever. However, taht does not mean I do not get to have an OPINION on reproductive issues. My OPINION (which I do nto want made into some law) is abortion should not be used like birth control and should only happen when the mother's or child's health (inlcuding emotional health--think rape here) is at stake. I ahve lots of other opinions about who should or should not ahve kids (I swear some people have them jsut because it is expected and nit because they really want them).
I guess this is no more contradictory than saying that I believe that we should be a country with no national religion. Everyone should have the right to choose whath s/he believes in and what faith s/he practices. At the same time, my OPINION (belief?) is that God (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.) does not exist. I do not think you should be legally required to agree with me--but I can still state my belief as such--jsut like the Mormans and Jehova's Witnesses can still show up on my door step and try to persuade me to believe as they do.

WOW, this took a turn didn't it? Personally I wanted 6, but my health limited me to 2 so that's what I have. I'm 100% behind whatever anyone wants to do with love in their hearts, 0 - 20, bio, adopted and everything in between. A home filled with love and is all any kid needs

PS- isn't breeders a derogatory term created by the gay movement against hetero couples. I seem to remember issues in Province town a while back where it was being used as a slur against vacationing families and has been gaining in use. Not ok
Here is just one article but I clearly remember it being all over the news a while back and have heard it in other places since then, on TV ect.
http://provincetownjournal.com/life/entry/provincetown-magazine-publisher-in-gay-rage-tantrum/

By this you mean? The way you say it sounds a bit like you mean it in a derogatory fashion as well. I REALLY hope I am misunderstanding and this is not your intent (and if so, you may want to rephrase it--like "created by some people campaigning for gay rights--or somethign like that)

 

[castleview]

If she wants eight kids fine, but I wouldn't be offering any help since they know what they're getting into. Then again I'm jaded because 85% of the clients at the food bank I volunteer at are people who have children without any means to care for them.

Heck right now I'm jaded that my cousin who I had considered well off was the recipient of much help (dinners, transportation, church donations, everything) after a horrific car accident. She did need surgery and she's doing great. But her husband is a realtor - not a good field to be in right now and she owns a very successful business with some great employees who could have kept it going while she was rehabbing. But she said it was easier to close the business, collect disability and have her kids be eligible for Pell Grants to an expensive university and a private high school. Sorry to get off topic and be so judgmental, but that's been getting me.

 

[BEloveDisney]

Unless you've been there, you can't really understand.

That being said, eight is sort of a lot of kids. If the kids can be supported then okay!

 

[mhsjax]

I
I very much agree with the bolded I am pro-choice because i think what a woman does with her body should be legally up to her. I think that my views on the matter wchould not force anyone to have or not have an aborion or to have or not have children or whatever. However, taht does not mean I do not get to have an OPINION on reproductive issues. My OPINION (which I do nto want made into some law) is abortion should not be used like birth control and should only happen when the mother's or child's health (inlcuding emotional health--think rape here) is at stake. I ahve lots of other opinions about who should or should not ahve kids (I swear some people have them jsut because it is expected and nit because they really want them).
I guess this is no more contradictory than saying that I believe that we should be a country with no national religion. Everyone should have the right to choose whath s/he believes in and what faith s/he practices. At the same time, my OPINION (belief?) is that God (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.) does not exist. I do not think you should be legally required to agree with me--but I can still state my belief as such--jsut like the Mormans and Jehova's Witnesses can still show up on my door step and try to persuade me to believe as they do.


By this you mean? The way you say it sounds a bit like you mean it in a derogatory fashion as well. I REALLY hope I am misunderstanding and this is not your intent (and if so, you may want to rephrase it--like "created by some people campaigning for gay rights--or somethign like that)

I am confused about why you are confused regarding the "breeders" term. According to the article, the gay population, who had been welcomed, started being nasty to heterosexuals, calling them breeders. I can't believe that even bringing that bit of information to light would be thought of as derogatory. Do you think that just because a group of people are gay, that this gives them the ok to insult other people. Is this group of people that special. I don't think so.

I do find the term breeders derogatory, but not the article stating that it was a slang term used by the gay community, it is what it is, and if they started that term, shame on them. It is just as unacceptable as being singled out because yo are gay. Or maybe I am confused as to what you are saying.

Sorry, but I am not the least bit PC I call it as I see it, and wrong is wrong, no matter who is dong the name calling.

 

[palavra]

How do we know that this woman has severe, life-threatening complications with her pregnancies? She has obviously safely delivered 7 children, so that makes me wonder exactly what sort of complications she has.

Some people have easy pregnancies and just assume everyone else should too. When I went on bed rest at 10 weeks with my daughter, my boss and a co-worker berated me for taking the time off. The co-worker had a one year old, a relatively easy pregnancy, and couldn't fathom why I was having difficulty so early on. My boss was single with no children. This encounter was enough for me to realize that some people just don't get it when it comes to pregnancy. If the lady is just going on bed rest, that doesn't mean she is risking her life or the life of the unborn child.

 

[palavra]

By some of the logic on this thread, my sister, a doctor, should not have had any more children after her first. She was 28, fit, healthy and had excellent medical care. her daughter was full term, and the pregnancy had no complications up until the birth. Shortly after my niece's birth, my sister began hemorrhaging. She nearly died on the table before they got the bleeding stopped. Afterward, all the doctors agreed that it was just a freaky thing. None discouraged her from having other children. She is now the mother of two other children, the youngest being 4 months old. Her second and third pregnancies were without complications at all.

 

[robinb]

I am confused about why you are confused regarding the "breeders" term. According to the article, the gay population, who had been welcomed, started being nasty to heterosexuals, calling them breeders. I can't believe that even bringing that bit of information to light would be thought of as derogatory. Do you think that just because a group of people are gay, that this gives them the ok to insult other people. Is this group of people that special. I don't think so.

Meh. The term "breeders" has been around for a long time and didn't start in Provincetown. The Childfree by Choice community has been using it forever. It was used on this very board back in 2003, 3 full years before the incident in P-Town. In any case, yes it is an offensive word.

 

[castleview]

By some of the logic on this thread, my sister, a doctor, should not have had any more children after her first. She was 28, fit, healthy and had excellent medical care. her daughter was full term, and the pregnancy had no complications up until the birth. Shortly after my niece's birth, my sister began hemorrhaging. She nearly died on the table before they got the bleeding stopped. Afterward, all the doctors agreed that it was just a freaky thing. None discouraged her from having other children. She is now the mother of two other children, the youngest being 4 months old. Her second and third pregnancies were without complications at all.

Your sister isn't asking an entire congregation for help. I don't know if this woman the OP is talking about is having life threatening issues - I swear my doctor put me on bed rest just to stop me from running around. That's the difference.

 

[tlbwriter]

By some of the logic on this thread, my sister, a doctor, should not have had any more children after her first. She was 28, fit, healthy and had excellent medical care. her daughter was full term, and the pregnancy had no complications up until the birth. Shortly after my niece's birth, my sister began hemorrhaging. She nearly died on the table before they got the bleeding stopped. Afterward, all the doctors agreed that it was just a freaky thing. None discouraged her from having other children. She is now the mother of two other children, the youngest being 4 months old. Her second and third pregnancies were without complications at all.

The woman in question didn't have one freak incident. It has happened with every pregnancy except her first.

 

[palavra]

The woman in question didn't have one freak incident. It has happened with every pregnancy except her first.[/QUOTE

Yes, but how could my sister know for sure it wouldn't happen again? She couldn't and admitted it. My mother was very concerned when she got pregnant again.

BTW, what happens with this woman every time? I went back and read the original post and it mentions is that the woman is on bed rest for each pregnancy. Bed rest is not uncommon and can happen for many reasons.