So my professor started attacking Disney...

A guy in one of my classes once raised his hand in the middle of a prof's diatribe and proceeded to ask, "Will this be on the test?"

I didn't have the guts to do something like that back then, but silently applauded him in my head.

More students ought to do stuff like this when profs start espousing their personal opinions about things that have nothing to do with the knowledge they are charged with imparting.

I like some Disney movies and I don't like others. No random professor will be changing my mind and I couldn't care less what they think.
 
Is it a personal opinion, if this is what they study and have the data to back it up? Content analysis (a systematic way of studying portrayals) of Disney films exist and are published in peer reviewed journals. Isn't it the job of a professor to impart this knowledge?
 
You may not think it has impact yet a vast set of scientific studies including longitudinal and experimental studies have found that media influence people. It's not a simplistic influence. Of course it depends on a whole host of factors age, gender, identification, critical viewing, other life experiences, but the data is there. Media are powerful and influential. If they weren't would corporations be spending so much money on advertising? No we're not mindless drones in this, but they have their impact. To deny this is to refute decades of research or maybe just be unaware of its existence.

Is it a personal opinion, if this is what they study and have the data to back it up? Content analysis (a systematic way of studying portrayals) of Disney films exist and are published in peer reviewed journals. Isn't it the job of a professor to impart this knowledge?

There is evidence to back up your argument. I did a week on Disney as part of American domination of culture back in my first year of Uni. I then went on to write a 3000 word essay why Disney could be seen as culturally imperialist. One of the key debates was to what extent Disney is America or has shaped the way other cultures see America.

But to go back to the topic on hand, there was a study done ('Dazzled by Disney-the global Disney audiences project) where they saw the impact Disney films were having both on American children and all across the world. These films to change the way people perceive the world around them, I can't remember the exact specifics since that was about 2 years ago. However it could be suggested that Disney films are much better for the world than say gorey action films, but even young children can pick up the negative undertones, especially with Disney princesses who they can really believe are real!

This is not trying to suggest I do not love Disney, I love the princesses more than the next person. However the way Disney used to make their female leads (even up to and beyond Aladdin which was in 1991 I believe, which was battered by critics because of the way Jasmine changes from unhappy and stroppy in the beginning to happy and content just because she has found her perfect man who she is willing to give up anything for. Then again Aladdin is a hunk! ;)) has made them very secondary to male characters, and often has their flaws or troubles ended because she finally has her man. Not exactly a feminists dream.

Then again you can put it the other way round. Men are being told that if they aren't a prince, brave, successful, good looking and not to mention stupidly wealthy, the girl will not fall for them. To land the perfect meek and mild women, you need to stick to a very narrow male stereotype too, one that a lot of boys refuse to relate to and go for the pirates! (And good on them!)

So as you can tell by my meandering answer, I haven't a clue, but both sides have a point!
 
Good point Kate. Male gender role portrayals are also quite limited. Your course sounds very interesting.
 

These are all images that most children are (were?) exposed to at some point and I'm betting that if you asked a 5 or 6 year old child if they thought that would happen...they'd laugh and think you were weird.

Ummm, my brother did try to imitate Mr Bean - the episode where he had a picnic lunch and dried his lettuce in his sock :sad2: there's always one :laughing:

Who said it was that simplistic? :confused3

I clearly stated in what you quoted that it was NOT a simple process. Actually it is a rather complex and nuanced process. Movies and TV shows are part of our environment and as such have an impact as we learn about new things, ways of being, make sense of the world. No where did I say it was the ONLY influence in a child's life. Of course it isn't. But it IS part of the world for many children and as such has an impact in their socialization. Again not the only influence, probably not the most important influence (you are correct, family plays a much larger role in the younger ages but that does start to diminish as children get older), but it IS an influence.

Just to give you a sample of what TV and movies have been found to influence: acceptability of violence, perception that the world is a more violent place than it actually is, aggression, gender role ideology, future expectations, acceptance of stereotypes, body image, self-esteem, and sexual attitudes. These are only a small sample of connections that have been studied and found to exist. Does it necessarily mean that watching one movie will make you think you can fly or make you even murder someone? Of course not. We're not that simplistic. But can watching similar portrayals over and over again color our perceptions of the world, especially things we perceive as possible? Yes it can and it does according to the evidence. No, it doesn't mean an older child (pre-schoolers might) believes in magic carpet rides, but it means they may be paying attention to the way Jasmine and Aladdin interact and relate to one another and file that away as part of other information they have about romantic relationships. Notice it's not the ONLY information. Just part of that information.

Of course it all depends on what they're watching and what the messages/portrayals are. The more consistent the message the more impact it has. Heck episodes of Sesame St. have been found to lower gendered stereotypes and increase acceptability of minorities. So these media portrayals can have positive influence. This is why it's useful to critically think through the portrayals in the media. Yes, those princesses can be passive, but then we have Mulan, a strong character who saves her country. What an awesome role model for little girls who are trying to make sense of what it means to be a girl in our society.

But again media are only one of many voices in a child's life. This is why I said, my children watch these movies, but we also talk about what happens in them, what's realistic and what isn't.

I agree the media is an influence but it's everything we see not just Disney or Warner Bros cartoons. To say that because of Disney alone women have these issues cannot be so unless that is all they ahve ever seen - even a couple in the grocery store could impact on a child. I think Disney can be brought in as a large part of fantasy culture but you also have commercials, soap operas, dramas on TV that depict more realistic images and ideas.

I think singling Disney out is wrong.
 
I agree the media is an influence but it's everything we see not just Disney or Warner Bros cartoons. To say that because of Disney alone women have these issues cannot be so unless that is all they ahve ever seen - even a couple in the grocery store could impact on a child. I think Disney can be brought in as a large part of fantasy culture but you also have commercials, soap operas, dramas on TV that depict more realistic images and ideas.


Again, I never said Disney was alone in this. Just one of many voices. But it can be argued it is a powerful voice given it's vastness and popularity so I see why some would focus on it. For myself, my research is on media influences on adolescents so a focus on Disney is not my area of study. Soap operas and music videos is what I focus on. And prime-time TV. I was just reacting to the argument that these images don't impact human attitudes, expectations and behavior. They do.
 
I have never once in my life seen a TV show or movie that relates to my life. Why, because my life is boring and so is most everyone else's. Nothing happens exciting in my life that is going to make anyone want to watch. I love my husband very much, but I met him in the grocery store. He didn't fly in my window, save me from a sea witch, or even have to kill anyone to win my heart. And, even if it is the intent of the author to try to sway our opinion with their art, it is up to the viewer what they are going to take out of it. I don't understand why Disney gets attacked for lack of reality (the fact that they are cartoons should give some indication to fiction), but the violence in movies is okay. I am OK admitting that I have a simple mind and I don't try to read a lot into it.
 
Have you also discussed the Shrek movies which revisit, and lampoon, many of the "traditional" fairytale (and Disney) myths? Although Fiona does give up the castle to live in the swamp with Shrek, the ogre of her dreams.
In particular I recall the scene in the most recent Shrek where Snow White, goes Rambo on the bad guys, complete with revealing her tattoo -- Dopey's name, on her arm?
 
I grew up watching Beauty and the Beast, Cinderella, Snow White and lots of other Disney Movies. Looking back on my childhood, I realized that I never read into what the movies were saying to me. I just found them entertaining and even a bit scary. I cried at them, I laughed at them, they put a smile on my face and yes I even did wish I was a princess. I completely realize that they are just fairytales. Just as quickly as he criticized Disney, I can criticize practically any other tv show or movie that children watch or are exposed to.

I sometimes still wish I was like Cinderella :)
 
This is a topic that reaches back to the origins of American pop culture in the 1920's.

There have always been those that preach that the portrayl of women in the media creates virtually unattainable ideals that young girls should never feel forced to achieve.

Cartoons deemed too violent and over and top and lead to children attempting such acts in reality not being able to discern fantasy from reality.

Issues such as annorexia/bulemia have been traced back to these lofty female ideals as are incidents of suicide and accidents stemming from kids trying stunts at home. However I think if we weigh these incidents against the rest of the children that wind up "normal"...I think we'll see the latter far exceeds the former. It all depends on the child in reality.

Also...the parents. People want to place so much blame on the media for molding and warping the next generation. When in reality if parents would actually PARENT and not just let the television act as a surrogate then maybe these incidents and situations may occurr even less!

Parents need to talk with their children. Discuss images they see on TV and in movies if they feel they need to do so rather than just demonizing them. In the end...if you don't like it...turn it off!

Ok I'm off my soap box now.
 
One thing the professors leave out of their studies is the fact that these Disney Stories are period stories as well.

In the timeline when these stories take place the women in the story are not the put upon women as portrayed in the classroom.

Bell Sacrificed her own freedom to save her father. She did not forgive Beast at first but was trapped with him. Only after a long time after the Beast became a different Person (less angry and Bitter) did their relationship change.

Jasmine was born at a time and place that it would have taken great courage and spirit to stand up to her father and tradition by refusing to marry the person her father wishes.

Cinderella in those medieval times was very brave crossing her stepmother. Even with the help of a fairy godmother she took great risks in attending the ball anyway.


We sell the movies short if we compare the actions and even looks to today's post women's lib movement times.


When it comes to body image of our girls today I do not think it's the cartoons that have caused any trouble. The youngest of our children only see it's the cloths that makes them Beautiful. After all Cinderella was plain looking until the animals made the pretty dress. And older children know it's a Cartoon. That somebody drew it.

It's the live action movies and the media that I feel cause the problems with body image.
 
One thing the professors leave out of their studies is the fact that these Disney Stories are period stories as well.

In the timeline when these stories take place the women in the story are not the put upon women as portrayed in the classroom.

Bell Sacrificed her own freedom to save her father. She did not forgive Beast at first but was trapped with him. Only after a long time after the Beast became a different Person (less angry and Bitter) did their relationship change.

Jasmine was born at a time and place that it would have taken great courage and spirit to stand up to her father and tradition by refusing to marry the person her father wishes.

Cinderella in those medieval times was very brave crossing her stepmother. Even with the help of a fairy godmother she took great risks in attending the ball anyway.


We sell the movies short if we compare the actions and even looks to today's post women's lib movement times.


When it comes to body image of our girls today I do not think it's the cartoons that have caused any trouble. The youngest of our children only see it's the cloths that makes them Beautiful. After all Cinderella was plain looking until the animals made the pretty dress. And older children know it's a Cartoon. That somebody drew it.

It's the live action movies and the media that I feel cause the problems with body image.

I agree-my niece was far more influenced by pop stars and real life actresses in regard to body image than Cinderella or Sleeping Beauty.
 
This is a very interesting discussion with a lot of different points of view.
What I have found interesting is that most of us on these boards are adults. And as adults we see things in a different prespective than children. I worked with young children and when they watched these movies they didn't analyze it. They didn't read into the stereo-types and they didn't care that it is not true to reality. I think sometimes as adults we forget the innocence of a child. A child may not understand what is really behind the Beast yelling or Ariel losing her voice. Now don't get me wrong, there are a lot of children who have to deal with adult topics at a young age. But I think we should stop and think about the child's point of view and not over analyze so much. I would start worrying if your child grows into a teenager and is still dressing as the character or not facing reality.

But of course, how many adults dress as a Disney character while in the parks or during Halloween??? :lmao:
 
I keep hearing that Disney is not the only influence or the only one with certain portrayals or messages. I agree with that. So just because it's not the only influence does that mean we ignore it? Is it a sacred cow that is beyond critique? Is it just uncomfortable to have something you love critiqued? I grew up on Disney, Disneyland was only a 15 minute drive from my home, I own many of their movies, I still enjoy watching those movies, I watch them with my kids, I buy their merchandise, I visit the parks and enjoy them. That doesn't mean I can't also be critical about some of their messages/practices. I thought that's what made the Dis and DisUnplugged special; that you could criticize Disney while still enjoying other aspects of it?

Kids may not be able to directly tell you what they notice or not notice in a cartoon but it doesn't mean it doesn't influence them. Again media are ONE of many influences that color our perceptions of the world around us, what is normal, what is beautiful, what is appropriate. Children are constantly learning and soaking it all in even if you're not explicitly trying to teach them something. They're little sponges. I just don't understand the outright denial by some that these message/images/portrayals can influence them in some way or another. Doesn't have to be all negative....doesn't have to be all positive.

-Rocio (who's kids are currently watching Mickey's Clubhouse and who is currently wearing a Minnie Mouse sweater)
 
There's a lot of resistance to thinking critically and analyzing the media we consume. We are afraid that it will lessen our enjoyment, ruin happy childhood memories, and undermine our beliefs and values.

But as a prof who is a Disney fan and is also preparing to teach a class in Critical Disney Studies next year, I can tell you that through analysis I have enjoyed Disney more than ever. And as an active consumer, I decide which messages I choose to accept, challenge, or reject. Taking a "critical" approach to Disney does not mean bashing media.

Consider third-person effect: the belief that the media influences OTHER people, but not me. With 24/7 media exposure, how can it NOT influence all of us to some degree?:happytv:
 
I keep hearing that Disney is not the only influence or the only one with certain portrayals or messages. I agree with that. So just because it's not the only influence does that mean we ignore it? Is it a sacred cow that is beyond critique? Is it just uncomfortable to have something you love critiqued? I grew up on Disney, Disneyland was only a 15 minute drive from my home, I own many of their movies, I still enjoy watching those movies, I watch them with my kids, I buy their merchandise, I visit the parks and enjoy them. That doesn't mean I can't also be critical about some of their messages/practices. I thought that's what made the Dis and DisUnplugged special; that you could criticize Disney while still enjoying other aspects of it?

Kids may not be able to directly tell you what they notice or not notice in a cartoon but it doesn't mean it doesn't influence them. Again media are ONE of many influences that color our perceptions of the world around us, what is normal, what is beautiful, what is appropriate. Children are constantly learning and soaking it all in even if you're not explicitly trying to teach them something. They're little sponges. I just don't understand the outright denial by some that these message/images/portrayals can influence them in some way or another. Doesn't have to be all negative....doesn't have to be all positive.

-Rocio (who's kids are currently watching Mickey's Clubhouse and who is currently wearing a Minnie Mouse sweater)

I don't disagree that it can be an influence, but I disagree that it's as powerful an influence as has been suggested.

It's more that Disney is the biggest kid on the block and gets the most attention. No matter what they do, someone is going to find a reason to slam them. Every single movie they've released in the last few years has been a target of objection from some offended person or another.

If you're a parent, it's YOUR responsibility to choose what media your children are exposed to, and how you're going to work with the messages that media presents to them. It's NOT the job of the entertainment companies to parent your children.
 
So critiquing a message is denying your parental responsibility? I don't see them as mutually exclusive. I think that's what many media scholars suggest as solution to negative media influences: media literacy. Being able to think critically about the portrayals and this analysis actually helps to buffer those potential negative influences. Yes, this means talking my children about what they're watching and in some cases not letting them watch certain things because I don't think they're ready for it. Doesn't mean we can't also simultaneously critique the messages. Also doesn't mean I'm in favor of censorship either. It's part of a dialogue between producers of media and consumers.
 
I thought that's what made the Dis and DisUnplugged special; that you could criticize Disney while still enjoying other aspects of it?

What makes the Dis Boards and the Dis Unplugged special is that people are allowed to post their opinions.....even when they disagree with yours.

No one has suggested that you arent allowed to criticize Disney. That would be pretty darn hypocritical if we did.

You are just getting different viewpoints on the same subject
 

New Posts



Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE









DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter DIS Bluesky

Back
Top Bottom