So just why is Disney raising ticket prices so early

[WDSearcher]

But hold on a minute wdw searcher.If they had these prices in the 80's that were so reasonable and only had 2 parks the situations you refer to should have happened then.Heck they should have been busting at the seams with people not having a good expierience.Funny thing, I went during those years and the crowds are similar to what I've seen on my last trips.Disney made it work then and expanded at a faster rate,and yes there were discounts then too!They had a formula that worked then, follow the blueprint that worked.Also how much better of an expierience is it when you have to go less because they have increased prices twice as fast!

Hold on yourself, flicx. You're assuming that the demand for a WDW vacation in the 1980s was the same as it is today. It's not.

Back in the 80s, when Disney was available for the cheap cheap price of $17 a day, places like Disney were new and different and relatively unknown. Disney didn't own a TV network, ESPN or their own channel. They were releasing stinkers of movies -- hadn't done a decent animated film in years. Little Mermaid and the resurgence of animation wouldn't come along until 1989. The company was under attack by hostile takeover bids. Eisner and Wells came along in 1984, but it would take a few years for things to settle down and for the company to hit its renaissance.

Disney wasn't slammed in the 1980s because, frankly, Disney wasn't cool in the 1980s. There wasn't the demand. You had two parks, a couple of resorts and golf courses, a water park and a campground. And that was it. It was a two or three day destination. People came to Florida and saw Disney as part of their trip -- it wasn't the piece they wrapped their entire trip around. And they certainly didn't spend weeks and months (and, occasionally, years) planning two week long, four park plus, intricately scheduled vacations. That didn't start happening until the wonderful worldwide web. You came to Florida to go to the beach and then swing past Disney on your way out, not the other way around. There was not this rabid fan base that the parks now have.

The travel, tourism and theme park markets were very very different back then. You can't look at the 1980s at WDW -- crowds, demand, length of stay, any of it -- in terms of the popularity of the place now. Two totally different animals.



PS. And to hear my dad tell it, it WAS packed to the gills in the 80s. It was a struggle to get him there because he felt it was too crowded to have a good time and too expensive for a family of five. Even at $17 a day. Go figure.

 

[jayandstacey]

Hold on yourself, flicx. You're assuming that the demand for a WDW vacation in the 1980s was the same as it is today. It's not.

Back in the 80s, when Disney was available for the cheap cheap price of $17 a day, places like Disney were new and different and relatively unknown. Disney didn't own a TV network, ESPN or their own channel. They were releasing stinkers of movies -- hadn't done a decent animated film in years. Little Mermaid and the resurgence of animation wouldn't come along until 1989. The company was under attack by hostile takeover bids. Eisner and Wells came along in 1984, but it would take a few years for things to settle down and for the company to hit its renaissance.

Disney wasn't slammed in the 1980s because, frankly, Disney wasn't cool in the 1980s. There wasn't the demand. You had two parks, a couple of resorts and golf courses, a water park and a campground. And that was it. It was a two or three day destination. People came to Florida and saw Disney as part of their trip -- it wasn't the piece they wrapped their entire trip around. And they certainly didn't spend weeks and months (and, occasionally, years) planning two week long, four park plus, intricately scheduled vacations. That didn't start happening until the wonderful worldwide web. You came to Florida to go to the beach and then swing past Disney on your way out, not the other way around. There was not this rabid fan base that the parks now have.

The travel, tourism and theme park markets were very very different back then. You can't look at the 1980s at WDW -- crowds, demand, length of stay, any of it -- in terms of the popularity of the place now. Two totally different animals.



PS. And to hear my dad tell it, it WAS packed to the gills in the 80s. It was a struggle to get him there because he felt it was too crowded to have a good time and too expensive for a family of five. Even at $17 a day. Go figure.

Agreed.

This goes back to my original statement, about 400 posts ago, where I pointed out that Disney's business goal is to get the most revenue out of each visit.

In the early years, it did this through expansion - so that your vacation went from 1 day to 2 days to 4 days....but at a relatively same price per day. That's why, for instance, if you compare the 1971 admission prices to the 1982 admission prices, they are about the same when adjutsed for inflation.

But now, Disney has created the demand and, for the most part, filled the capacity. But the goal still remains - to get the most revenue from each visit. So now we see two things:

1. Admission prices going up - to collect more from the same visitors on the same trip.
2. Promotions focused on dining and hotels - to ensure the 'negotiable' money stays maximized and isn't lost to outside hotels or restaurants.

This isn't new, it has been going on for many years. It has just accelerated as the effort to extend the vacation (adding more days) has slowed, yet Disney's appetite for more of our vacation dollar hasn't.

 

[GadgetRick]

I think the discussion regarding Disney wanting to increase prices to control crowds is laughable. If you think Disney sits around and talks about how to lower the attendance level you're crazy. They want MORE people, not less.

Think about it, if people aren't saying no to Disney over increased prices, why on Earth would they be saying no because it's crowded? As I've said Disney is ALWAYS crowded (more during certain times than others). Everyone knows this before they come (regardless of whether they're informed like many of us around here or not).

Heck, take it a step farther, during certain times (Christmas and other holidays) MK fills to capacity and they have to stop allowing people to come in! We all know it's busy during Christmas but you have to book 2 years in advance to get in!!!

So Disney knows darn well the bulk of people do NOT stay away because of the crowds. Yes, there are some but they probably wouldn't go anyway.

And, most importantly, the more people who go, the more people who spend money on other things (souvenirs, food, etc.). And Disney counts on that additional revenue. I don't know the numbers but I have a feeling the profit margins on these other things is higher than tickets. Why would they try and stop having people come and spend money on the higher-profit items???

The whole idea of Disney working to lower the crowd level is a joke.

 

[mom2rtk]

Oh for goodness sake. I was laughing at the article and how expensive Universal was in light of all this talk about Disney pricing itself out of the market. I was NOT laughing at people who couldn't afford their beloved Disney vacations. I'm sorry. I take back my chuckle.

I'm sorry if I misconstrued your chuckle.

I think the discussion regarding Disney wanting to increase prices to control crowds is laughable. If you think Disney sits around and talks about how to lower the attendance level you're crazy. They want MORE people, not less.

I absolutely agree. You'd have to be off your rocker to think for a MOMENT that Disney would try to push the attendance needle DOWN. For ANY reason. I'm sure there are folks employed by Disney who's continued employment depends on them pushing that attendance needle UP.

I use Disneyland as an example. I LOVE Disneyland. We attended in June of 05, 06, and 07. We had a great time with lovely weather and completely manageable crowds. Not LOW crowds, but manageable crowds.

As we discussed a return trip last summer, I visited the DL board here. I saw much discussion about being sure to visit only when the AP's are blacked out. It seems that the low cost payment plan for SOCAL residents had exploded the number of AP's sold. We ended up with no flexibility in our schedule and attended on a couple days they were NOT blacked out. HOLY COW! It was impossible to even walk down the sidewalk, let alone find the Disney magic.

Fast forward. I recently saw an announcement that they have EXTENDED that popular AP payment plan to the rest of California. I'm back going to WDW because I hate big crowds, and can still manage to find some times at WDW that have smallER crowds.

I am quite confident Disney and I are at cross purposes. I'm sure there's a whole department working overtime to figure out those slow weeks and busy them up. Where it stops is anyone's best guess.

 

[rt2dz]

You're assuming that the demand for a WDW vacation in the 1980s was the same as it is today. It's not.

Quote clipped for the sake of space.

I remember trips to WDW in the 80s. Heck, I remember trips in the 70s. I have spent my life going to WDW every year since 1976. It was crowded in the 80s. I remember waits for Space Mountain being 1-2 hours long. I remember CoP being packed! It was crowded.

No, Disney didn't have all the media outlets, but they did have TV shows. I remember every Sunday night sitting with the family watching the World of Disney TV shows. They were rating leaders! And they did advertise.

The reason my parents started taking us to Disney was because my grandfather promised my mother to take her to Disneyland when she was a kid. He never did. Well, grandparents started wintering in FL. We went to visit. 1976. My parents took my older siblings, leaving me with my grandparents since I was "so young." My mom kept thinking all day how much I would love that, so with only 1 park, we all went back the next day. I, so I hear, had a blast, and they all had a great time just as much on day 2 as they did on day 1. My sisters asked almost every day for a year to go back, until they did.

Disney was never hurting.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I really can't set that number,however something in line with what the increases in gas food etc have gone up would be fair.

Well, I don't know about food (too many different foods at too many different prices), but gas in 1972 was about $.40 per gallon, or about $1.98 in 2011 dollars. In 1981 - bad year for gas prices ) it was $1.40 actual/$3.31 adjusted.
1985: $.99/$1.90
1992: $1.05/$1.60
2000: $1.50/$1.95
June 2011: $3.51/$3.51
Source: http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/Oil/Gasoline_inflation_chart.htm
So I could get almost six gallons of gas in 1972 for what one gallon would cost today. Could I visit four theme parks with over a hundred rides, shows, and attractions for just a little more than six times what one day's admission would have cost me back then? I think not.

Now, the Magic Your Way tickets were introduced so guests could purchase exactly what they want, and not pay for features they have no intention of using. There's a complete ticket price history at AllEars, but the original MYW tickets were cheaper than the previous year. Sure, if you wanted to add features that added to the cost - but it was (and remains) your choice.

I hope nobody thinks the old tickets would be less expensive than putting together the features you'll use, even now and in the future?

 

[kaytieeldr]

I think prices are going up to pay for those people's backyards on "My Yard Goes Disney", hey just my opinion.

On the other hand, I think Disney's only involvement is permission. Either the homeowners, the sponsors, or HGTV pay for the modifications.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I was saving money for the end of July 2011 to buy 3 AP's. Now I will wait till we go in Dec 2011. No warning, No reason to get them now. thanks Igor.

Disney generally notifies staff a day or two in advance, if at all. More likely, they find out when they get to work one day and find new ticket prices effective immediately.

Travel Agents may get a very few days notice, and those able to notify their clients privately - or more people through a website with which they have a relationship, connection, or even friendship such as Mousesavers or AllEars or WDWinfo - do so as rapidly as possible.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I understand that the 1971 park also required hard tickets. Which is why I also included the 1982 admission price, the first year the hard tickets were completely gone.




I was trying to compare a single day ticket back then (1982, after hard tickets) to a "single day" park hopper of today. But there's no such thing today - today's park hoppers begin at 2 days. So I compared the 1982 ticket price to 1/2 the price of today's 2 day park hopper - making it as close to apples-to-apples as possible.



Here's a map of the MK from 1979, roughly the era we're talking about. There was certainly less in the park - but I'd say not a 1/3 of what's there today. I'd argue that maybe 20% ish has been added to MK since that era. And we can't count things like hotel amenities, water parks, etc - as they aren't a part of the ticket price.

To me, the bottom line is more that Disney was UNDER priced then, vs. overpriced now. I've never said today is a ripoff, rather that it isn't the same deal it has been in decades past, and that Disney has been relentless in advancing the total average dollars collected per person per trip. Park tickets are just a part of that. I'm also making the case that today's prices aren't the wonderful deal they were back then. Still not a ripoff, but quite a trade of value for dollars.

It's your estimated 20% more attractions in the original park, plea three additional major theme parks, plus two water parks, plus DisneyQues, plus two miniature golf courses, plus several regulation golf courses, plus recreational bot rentals, plus water sports, pus spas, plus shopping, plus dining...and yes, I'm aware much of that costs extra.

My point - and I really detest having to remind everyone - Disney is a business. The company's ultimate goal is to earn a profit for its owners, the shareholders. Some of 'em are right here on the DIS .

 

[Planogirl]

It is still a fair comparison though...rack rate to rack rate, one-day to one-day.

The point is there's at least one scenario - and a common one at that - where Universal is more expensive than Disney.

To be more precise, Universal HAS to discount the multi-day tickets more because they don't have as robust a multi-day offering. Disney has more investment in the multi-day offering (with all the parks, DTD, water parks, etc) and thus Disney does become a higher valued offering into day 4, 5, 6 of the vacation.

And that's where Disney rings the register. Comparing one day, one park, one person - Disney's been hiking prices in a way few other companies could sustain. What allows them to do so is the package, the other stuff. You begin to pay way more to NOT have to change hotels. To NOT have to ever get in your car. To NOT ever have to go to the same park twice over 6 days.

These are the things that allow Disney to collect WAY more than Universal over the course of a vacation. But clearly, Universal and others are working to catch up, literally buying one hour back at a time.

This makes sense but isn't exacty giggle worthy. Besides some are saying that Universal is trying to steer people to purchasing online and that is one reason for the discount.

Disney's strategy makes sense as long as they stay behind that line where people won't stay onsite or eat onsite and so on any longer. We are over the line or at least straddling it but others seem OK with it so far so kudos to Disney for clever planning.

 

[WDSearcher]

This makes sense but isn't exacty giggle worthy. Besides some are saying that Universal is trying to steer people to purchasing online and that is one reason for the discount.

Disney's strategy makes sense as long as they stay behind that line where people won't stay onsite or eat onsite and so on any longer. We are over the line or at least straddling it but others seem OK with it so far so kudos to Disney for clever planning.

Clearly, I'm the only one who found it funny that -- in a topic littered with people saying that Universal was becoming their park of choice because Disney was too expensive -- it turns out that Universal is actually the more expensive park, when measured this way.

But I did find it funny. And not just giggle worthy, but big ol' laugh funny. Sue me.

I do think Disney knows what they're doing. They're not tossing darts at targets and choosing pricing strategies at random. Why do you think they have those survey-takers in the parks? Why do they enlist people to be part of their on-line research? Why do they e-mail surveys to people after they get home? Why do they do focus groups or call you when you've complained about something? They want feedback. They need Guest reactions and information to know if they're doing things right.

Every decision they make is based on Guest response. What people here forget is that the DIS is a very very small sample. Even if every single person on the DIS totally agreed about something eek and then every single person on the DIS wrote to Disney to express that singular opinion, it would be a very small blip. It would be noticed, and Disney would wonder why a few thousand people suddenly all wrote to them about food quality at Le Cellier or whatever, but the entire DIS is still less than one percent (and probably less than one half of one percent) of total Disney guests in a year. Everyone on the DIS may decide that Disney is no longer a value and they may all stop going. But again -- unless everyone on the DIS has been going to Disney at exactly the same time every year for a couple years (at least) running, the change wouldn't be noticed. Those 5000 fewer trips will be spread out over a year, or a couple of years, and be written off as normal attrition.

I think Disney is very clear on where to stop and how much they can add, subtract, change or not to keep "on track" financially. I think they know exactly where the line is.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Clearly, I'm the only one who found it funny that -- in a topic littered with people saying that Universal was becoming their park of choice because Disney was too expensive -- it turns out that Universal is actually the more expensive park, when measured this way.

But I did find it funny. And not just giggle worthy, but big ol' laugh funny. Sue me.

I do think Disney knows what they're doing. They're not tossing darts at targets and choosing pricing strategies at random. Why do you think they have those survey-takers in the parks? Why do they enlist people to be part of their on-line research? Why do they e-mail surveys to people after they get home? Why do they do focus groups or call you when you've complained about something? They want feedback. They need Guest reactions and information to know if they're doing things right.

Every decision they make is based on Guest response. What people here forget is that the DIS is a very very small sample. Even if every single person on the DIS totally agreed about something eek and then every single person on the DIS wrote to Disney to express that singular opinion, it would be a very small blip. It would be noticed, and Disney would wonder why a few thousand people suddenly all wrote to them about food quality at Le Cellier or whatever, but the entire DIS is still less than one percent (and probably less than one half of one percent) of total Disney guests in a year. Everyone on the DIS may decide that Disney is no longer a value and they may all stop going. But again -- unless everyone on the DIS has been going to Disney at exactly the same time every year for a couple years (at least) running, the change wouldn't be noticed. Those 5000 fewer trips will be spread out over a year, or a couple of years, and be written off as normal attrition.

I think Disney is very clear on where to stop and how much they can add, subtract, change or not to keep "on track" financially. I think they know exactly where the line is.

I too found it amusing that Universal raised their price above Disney. I think they know that if they can draw people away from Disney for one or two days, that those type of guests don't care if they spend $85 or $100 for that experience.

That said, it's just splitting hairs about Universal being more costly than Disney, because here is how I view Universal.

When we travel to Orlando, we stay on-site at Disney. We recently purchased a DVC membership and thoroughly enjoyed our last two DVC stays. We plan to use our DVC membership on future trips to Orlando. When there, we purchase Disney MYW tickets as we typically only do a major WDW trip every other year so annual passes don't make sense (on the off-years, we do a Disney cruise!).

If we stay 10-nights, we may purchase an 8-day MYW ticket with Water Parks and More as we like to spend a couple of days at the waterparks too.

If we decide to go to Universal, Sea World or Kennedy Space Center for a day, we have to look at the fact that we can purchase an extra day at Disney for $8 (previously $5 per person) or a Universal ticket for around $85 per day.

Thus, do we believe that Universal will provide $77 or more value to us than Disney per person? On our trip earlier this month, we concluded that it wouldn't, so we didn't stray from Disney. And as huge HP book and film fans, we discussed it a lot.

Yes, I know that Disney prices that way for people like us.

There is a possibility that we may visit Universal after our cruise next year, but to do so, we'd skip going to a Disney park altogether. We haven't made that decision yet, but a few dollars one way or the other isn't going to sway our decision. It's simply a decision as to whether or not we want to see the WWoHP section at Universal Studios and take advantage of the fact that we're already in the area for a cruise. It may be a fun diversion for a day, but it's not something we would do every trip. Universal had to knock it out of the park to try to draw guests like us from Disney and it appears they did so from what I've read, but even then not everyone will spend that money to go try it out.

 

[The_Alice]

This makes sense but isn't exacty giggle worthy. Besides some are saying that Universal is trying to steer people to purchasing online and that is one reason for the discount.

Disney's strategy makes sense as long as they stay behind that line where people won't stay onsite or eat onsite and so on any longer. We are over the line or at least straddling it but others seem OK with it so far so kudos to Disney for clever planning.

Oh this and previous ticket increases pushed our family past the point of staying onsite and dining completely onsite for the past two trips. Sure we go, but the Disney company doesn't get every dime they could. Is it an overreaction on our part? Maybe. But, we have to make up for that cost somewhere in our budget.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

My point - and I really detest having to remind everyone - Disney is a business. The company's ultimate goal is to earn a profit for its owners, the shareholders. Some of 'em are right here on the DIS .

ITA!

It's that profit goal that has made the Disney parks what they are today - both the good and bad.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

My point - and I really detest having to remind everyone - Disney is a business. The company's ultimate goal is to earn a profit for its owners, the shareholders. Some of 'em are right here on the DIS .

ITA!
It's that profit goal that has made the Disney parks what they are today - both the good and bad.

Oh, I understand the fact Disney is a business, I agree. However, it's really a moot point when it comes to people's perception of value or what their budget allows for. Some people don't bat an eye at dropping $9,000 for a Disney vacation while others struggle to scrape together maybe $3,000 for a trip. But you either have the money, or you don't. If you're used to spending a lot on vacation but think the destination is suffering in quality and value, then you go elsewhere.

So yes, Disney is a business trying to turn a profit. I don't believe they have these higher ideals that truly consider how to make the customer more happy for any other reason than to bring in more money and get repeat visitors.

Our last trip in January, we noticed several things that highlighted Disney has cut back on things. Therefore, for us, it isn't a great value anymore, particularly when the prices rise yet my DH hasn't had a raise in years. Even with a discount, the value in my opinion, is slipping. Just my two cents worth.

 

[WDSearcher]

Oh this and previous ticket increases pushed our family past the point of staying onsite and dining completely onsite for the past two trips. Sure we go, but the Disney company doesn't get every dime they could. Is it an overreaction on our part? Maybe. But, we have to make up for that cost somewhere in our budget.

But don't you think that the Disney company knows that? They know that if they raise prices by $3 on Thursday that by Friday there will be people moving off site or cancelling one dinner reservation or shortening their trip or cancelling their trip as a reaction to higher prices. They know this going in. They don't raise prices thinking that there won't be any backlash. But they've discussed it and had meetings about it and talked to forecasters and survey groups and all sorts of other people and have decided that they're okay with a certain amount of lost business because the financials have told them that they'll come out ahead in the end. If they thought they'd be posting a loss by raising prices, they wouldn't do it.

 

[wmharley]

TBH, I don't know what the hubub is about. They raise them just about every year, just this time they've decided to get an extra infusion of cash by raising them at the start of the busy summer season, instead of waiting until it starts to trail off. It makes more sense (imo) to do it now than wait until August. Heck, if I were in their shoes, I'd likely be doing the same thing (assuming that ticket prices were slated to go up anyway).

if you think about it, regardless of when they change it, they get summer visitors, just a difference of this year vs next yr's summer folks. They will get a bit extra since they got a leg up now though.

Well, they gotta pay for Belle's new castle somehow! I am sure financially it makes sense to do it now to help pay for the Fantasyland redo.

Plus prices on everything seem to be going up so probably trying to cover costs of running the parks.

And there have been so many promotions esp free dining seems like they need to make up the revenue somehow.

We will still go, but when we crunch the numbers it never makes financial sense for us to stay on property. We also don't eat alot at Disney as its so much and the DDP don't appeal to us.

That I think is the answer.. they have to pay for the new construction. Disney eliminating several promotions is short sighted. We bought our annual passes when they did the birthday and volunteering deals. Never before would we have done that. As a result, i've renewed twice, my DD twice, my DW is on her 1st pass, and our son will get it now in August due to age. however, since we are staggered, I need to get them (as I'm the main traveller) and my son will get ours in August, but if they jack up too much, then next yr might be our last and we'll be content with BG fun passes. Without that discount to start, they'd not have gotten any of us at all, so they've made a bit of profit, even after using 3 free ticket credits.

I don't think it is the annual increase anybody is complaining about. It is the fact that the cost of tickets is getting out of control. The economy is horrible and Disney is starting to become as affordable as going on a 21-day European tour.

From a Corporation perspective, I think it is to push people towards DVC and annual passes - but then there is the cost of rising airfare, food in the parks (which is crazy for what you get) and all of that jazz.

Disney is continuing on the cut-backs for guests, but increasing the prices for everything to pay for new resorts and the Fantasyland expansion. They cannot even operate a decent IT system, so accommodation and customer service is not always top on their list from a guest perspective.

I will still go to Disney until I cannot afford it, but I understand the passion.

If that annual pass hits $300, i'm out, value or not. For that price, our fam can hit BG and Elmo, and deal with that.

its a no win situation for Disney. we will all complain, but we all want new things.. just not to pay for it.

 

[flicx]

Ok Ok, we get it disney has to make a profit.There is no one here that doesn't know that.However the main discussion I think is going on here is how they have been doing it and how if may affect disney in the future. If they keep up the current increases compared to the rest of the world it will without a doubt become an exclusive club that will price out many many people.I guess the real question is do we want disney to become more exclusive or run more like a superstore that handles more people and still makes a nice profit.I prefer the latter as I have seen this working in the 80's and 90's and early 2000.I don't like the way things have turned with the new management.I particularly don't like when a higher up says discounts are gonna dry up,seems to me he has pointed to the direction they are headed in.In my opinion the darkside may be winning this one!

 

[rt2dz]

On the other hand, I think Disney's only involvement is permission. Either the homeowners, the sponsors, or HGTV pay for the modifications.

HGTV pays for it. HGTV is owned by Disney.

Disney generally notifies staff a day or two in advance, if at all. More likely, they find out when they get to work one day and find new ticket prices effective immediately.

Travel Agents may get a very few days notice, and those able to notify their clients privately - or more people through a website with which they have a relationship, connection, or even friendship such as Mousesavers or AllEars or WDWinfo - do so as rapidly as possible.

Disney posted it on their public blog on Friday that increases would happen on Monday.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

If that annual pass hits $300, i'm out, value or not. For that price, our fam can hit BG and Elmo, and deal with that.

its a no win situation for Disney. we will all complain, but we all want new things.. just not to pay for it.

$300 for an annual pass? Where can one get one that cheap? Is it for Florida residents only? I thought even those were more expensive than $300.

A $300 annual pass would probably draw a lot more visitors and make it extremely popular. Right now, the gate price for a 3-day park hopper is more than $300. Sounds like that great deal on an annual pass wouldn't apply to most WDW visitors or this whole conversation would be moot.