So just why is Disney raising ticket prices so early

[WDSearcher]

I'm glad you find it all so amusing.

But honestly, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out Universal would follow suit.

In my book, I don't care one whit what the "other guys" are doing. What matters is MY budget and whether MY family can afford to continue going.

You sure you don't work for the Disney accounting department? Maybe the PR department?

Is there something wrong with finding it amusing? I'm sorry.

I think it just interests me that there have been all these posts about greed and how Disney is pricing itself out of the market and how people can't afford it, etc. etc. etc. and then -- by virtue of a single dollar less at the parking kiosk -- Universal actually comes out on top as the "most expensive park in the US".

Granted, if you're never going to go to Universal, then it doesn't matter to you at all because Disney is still plenty expensive. But it made me chuckle.

No ... I don't work for Disney's accounting or PR departments. But I am a Libra. We like seeing things from both sides.

 

[mom2rtk]

Is there something wrong with finding it amusing? I'm sorry.

I think it just interests me that there have been all these posts about greed and how Disney is pricing itself out of the market and how people can't afford it, etc. etc. etc. and then -- by virtue of a single dollar less at the parking kiosk -- Universal actually comes out on top as the "most expensive park in the US".

Granted, if you're never going to go to Universal, then it doesn't matter to you at all because Disney is still plenty expensive. But it made me chuckle.

No ... I don't work for Disney's accounting or PR departments. But I am a Libra. We like seeing things from both sides.

In my opinion, yes. I consider finding it amusing to find others less able to afford their beloved Disney trip to be in poor taste.

I believe there is a certain group of folks here on the DIS who have just been waiting for Disney to price themselves to a point where they can have Disney back from the huddled masses that have had access to it of late.

I'm not saying that's you. I'm just saying I find that just as distasteful a someone chucking about the price increases.

You're from Orlando. I'm assuming you have an annual pass. You probably even get a nice discount for living in Florida. If so, then you can get a year's worth of benefit out of your investment, spreading the increase over many outings. Don't think you got enough value for what you spent? Go back again. And again. But lots of folks don't live in Orlando and face 1) the ever escalating price of airfare along with 2) only being able to go with much less frequency, thereby putting all that expense into only one limited outing.

The increase is what it is. Disney is perfectly within their right to do whatever they want with the price. And we will all find a way to go or we won't. But I would never chuckle about someone becoming less able to afford it.

 

[mom2rtk]

My thoughts exactly. Budgets are personalized to your needs. For us, we have to pay more now due to two of our daughters being ten and older. Now it's getting outside our budget.

Sure we could stay in an RV at Ft. Wilderness, cook all of our own meals and limit our park days. But for us, that's not a vacation. Sigh, why can't my kids just stay small?

It will be interesting to see the trend over the next several years since Disney announced their plan to wean people off of the discounts. If true, prices will continue to rise and discounts may fade. Who knows. It's hard for DH and I to stomach the cost at this point for a week long vacation when for the same price, we could take two or three vacations (or go somewhere else and stay longer.) It's all so relative, I know, but that's where we're at now.

We're facing the same thing here. We have one who just became a Disney adult. It's a lot to swallow all at once.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

I'm not saying that's you. I'm just saying I find that just as distasteful a someone chucking about the price increases.

Sorry, but I did get a laugh out of your typo.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

We're facing the same thing here. We have one who just became a Disney adult. It's a lot to swallow all at once.

We have two kids who are Disney adults and we just finished our final trip with our youngest as a Disney child.

Yes, Disney is expensive and it will continue to get even more expensive until they reach a point where customers no think the perceived value exceeds their costs.

The only way to really complain is to stop spending money at Disney. If it's too inexpensive, it will be too crowded and guests may perceive that the "cheap" cost isn't worth it as they have to wait too long for anything. If it's too expensive, not enough guests will come and shows/attractions and service will suffer and thus, it's not a good value. Disney has to somehow achieve the right balance. That's why Christmas & Spring Break prices are higher than September prices. It's simple business economics IMO.

I'm not sure why you're so sensitive to this issue. Do I wish they wouldn't raise prices. Sure, but I also understand why that's not realistic. There are other threads out there right now where people say they would glady spend $150 per person for a one-day ticket. (I don't agree, but I do find it interesting).

As others have said, there are lots of other vacation alternatives. I grew up with my parents never being able to afford to take us to Disney and I survived just fine.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

We have two kids who are Disney adults and we just finished our final trip with our youngest as a Disney child.

Yes, Disney is expensive and it will continue to get even more expensive until they reach a point where customers no think the perceived value exceeds their costs.

I read an article recently that stated Disney officials had conducted research and found that consumers consider a vacation to Disney World a good value still. Obviously they feel this to be so, hence the price increases (both tickets and dining plan) and intention to wean consumers off of discounts. Here's what Iger and Rasulo said:

"The consumer, Rasulo said, is willing to pay higher prices for good product but are still booking late expecting discounts. Disney still wants to send a message to consumers that discounting is a thing of the past. Unfortunately, it appears to be working. While saying the current information is mild and not easy to read, Rasulo also said the decrease in discounting and recent room rate price increases “are definitely sticking” because room bookings (so far this quarter) are up by double digits as compared to last year."

 

[brunette8706]

We have two kids who are Disney adults and we just finished our final trip with our youngest as a Disney child.

Yes, Disney is expensive and it will continue to get even more expensive until they reach a point where customers no think the perceived value exceeds their costs.

The only way to really complain is to stop spending money at Disney. If it's too inexpensive, it will be too crowded and guests may perceive that the "cheap" cost isn't worth it as they have to wait too long for anything. If it's too expensive, not enough guests will come and shows/attractions and service will suffer and thus, it's not a good value. Disney has to somehow achieve the right balance. That's why Christmas & Spring Break prices are higher than September prices. It's simple business economics IMO.

I'm not sure why you're so sensitive to this issue. Do I wish they wouldn't raise prices. Sure, but I also understand why that's not realistic. There are other threads out there right now where people say they would glady spend $150 per person for a one-day ticket. (I don't agree, but I do find it interesting).

As others have said, there are lots of other vacation alternatives. I grew up with my parents never being able to afford to take us to Disney and I survived just fine.

*
Has Disney ever, EVER been too inexpensive? Further, this is a public forum where people can post their ideas, suggestions and yes complaints. I too think it is getting way out of hand for the average person. With the economy the way it is and more and more people out of jobs it's a wonder Disney makes any money at all in the parks. Actually, they do get a lot of the UK visitors where the currency is far greater than ours. Thank goodness we get annual passes. It also seems that Disney does gouge people with their, eh hem Holiday pricing, and weekend rates.

 

[mom2rtk]

Sorry, but I did get a laugh out of your typo.

LOL! I'm sure it wasn't my first mistake today. And I'm pretty sure it won't be my last!

I'm not sure why you're so sensitive to this issue.

Actually I'm not as sensitive to the issue as you would think. I'll still find a way to go. I'll probably add a new ticker to my signature soon in fact.

I'm a big supporter of our free market system. I completely understand that they can charge what they want, and I can decide to go or not.

I knew Disney would raise prices, even expected it, in spite of a tanking economy and high oil prices. I DID find it to be sort of a slap in face to struggling consumers for them to SPEED UP their traditional time line for the price increase this year.

I just didn't find anything really amusing about it.

*
Has Disney ever, EVER been too inexpensive? Further, this is a public forum where people can post their ideas, suggestions and yes complaints. I too think it is getting way out of hand for the average person. With the economy the way it is and more and more people out of jobs it's a wonder Disney makes any money at all in the parks. Actually, they do get a lot of the UK visitors where the currency is far greater than ours. Thank goodness we get annual passes. It also seems that Disney does gouge people with their, eh hem Holiday pricing, and weekend rates.

Well, my comment has more to do with a theme I've seen over time from a certain segment of posters. They like the idea of keeping Disney more expensive and therefore more "exclusive".

 

[GadgetRick]

I didn't ask if you thought crowds would be a concern for Disney. I asked how you thought it would affect the guest experience.

OK ... so ... let's raise ticket prices for a one-day, one-park ticket by a factor of three. I think back somewhere in the 290s you mentioned that other things had grown by about three times since 1985. So ... $17 x 3 = $51. It's now $51 to get into a park. That's $20 less than SeaWorld and about what it costs to get into Six Flags Over Georgia if you buy your ticket at the gate. This cheaper price means that a LOT more people are going to be able to come to the parks, including a lot more locals. APs and FL Resident APs will be a lot cheaper, so more people will have those as well. So the parks are going to be alot more crowded, and all the time. But there's not a lot of construction of new rides / attractions going on, because Disney is making less money. And if they're going to build anything, they're going to be building new resorts to house all the new people who can suddenly afford a Disney vacation. So there's bound to -- at least initially -- be a huge capacity problem. Long lines, not enough to do. Lines for everything -- bathrooms, Mickey bars, merchandise, water fountains. You think keeping bathrooms clean is a challenge now? Just wait!

Back around post 300, you said something about how bringing expensive new housing on Disney property was "hardly a move to improve 99% of the guests expierience!" So ... we've made WDW much more affordable to many more people, the parks are packed, lines are long, discounts are gone ... that's hardly a move to improve 99% of the guests experience either, is it? Sure, more people can get in. But if all they do is stand in line, how is that better?

Honestly, WDW is already crowded. I don't believe it would make a huge difference in crowd levels. Weekends are always crowded, they would continue to be crowded. Ditto for holidays.

I don't buy the theory that lower ticket prices make it less desirable to go because crowds are too high. Would there be more people? I'm sure but I don't believe it would be an appreciable amount more. YMMV

 

[jayandstacey]

I too think it is getting way out of hand for the average person. With the economy the way it is and more and more people out of jobs it's a wonder Disney makes any money at all in the parks. Actually, they do get a lot of the UK visitors where the currency is far greater than ours. Thank goodness we get annual passes. It also seems that Disney does gouge people with their, eh hem Holiday pricing, and weekend rates.

Well, while the economy isn't the best it has ever been, Disney's movement over time away from the 'average' person to more 'above average' people also tends to insulate it a little more from economic pressures.

For example: When unemployment is near 10%, there are still 90% of people with jobs. And the wealthier people tend to be:
- less likely to lose a job in such an economy
- less likely to disrupt vacations and such due to the economy
- and a place like Disney is simply a much smaller portion of their income or worth.

A bad economy does impact Disney but in a more indirect way, where maybe people (even rich guests) don't spend quite as much or do extravagant things. But not in a huge way.

 

[mom2rtk]

Well, while the economy isn't the best it has ever been, Disney's movement over time away from the 'average' person to more 'above average' people also tends to insulate it a little more from economic pressures.

For example: When unemployment is near 10%, there are still 90% of people with jobs. And the wealthier people tend to be:
- less likely to lose a job in such an economy
- less likely to disrupt vacations and such due to the economy
- and a place like Disney is simply a much smaller portion of their income or worth.

A bad economy does impact Disney but in a more indirect way, where maybe people (even rich guests) don't spend quite as much or do extravagant things. But not in a huge way.

I guess the proof will be in the pudding. But I disagree. Even those with jobs have been faced with:

1) no salary increases for many for up to 3 years now
2) skyrocketing health insurance deductions from paychecks
3) rising fuel costs
4) rising grocery costs
5) decreasing home values

Do the math. It doesn't take unemployment to make a family vacation expendable.

 

[GadgetRick]

Well, while the economy isn't the best it has ever been, Disney's movement over time away from the 'average' person to more 'above average' people also tends to insulate it a little more from economic pressures.

For example: When unemployment is near 10%, there are still 90% of people with jobs. And the wealthier people tend to be:
- less likely to lose a job in such an economy
- less likely to disrupt vacations and such due to the economy
- and a place like Disney is simply a much smaller portion of their income or worth.

A bad economy does impact Disney but in a more indirect way, where maybe people (even rich guests) don't spend quite as much or do extravagant things. But not in a huge way.

Historically, I'd agree with you, however, this last bout we've been dealing with is hitting everyone on every level. Many people (myself included) who made a very nice living have lost jobs or are making a LOT less than they used to (whether they're employed or not). Yes, the wealthiest individuals can still afford things, however, that makes up a very small percentage of the population. The rest of us have been hit hard (or many of us have been anyway.

Make no mistake, the bad economy has impacted Disney negatively in a very direct way...

 

[KSDisneyDad]

*
Has Disney ever, EVER been too inexpensive? Further, this is a public forum where people can post their ideas, suggestions and yes complaints. I too think it is getting way out of hand for the average person. With the economy the way it is and more and more people out of jobs it's a wonder Disney makes any money at all in the parks. Actually, they do get a lot of the UK visitors where the currency is far greater than ours. Thank goodness we get annual passes. It also seems that Disney does gouge people with their, eh hem Holiday pricing, and weekend rates.

Sorry. Poor choice of wording. I was just trying to say that complaining on a message board isn't really sending a message to Disney. Yes, Disney may monitor these boards, but as someone on another thread illustrated, if every DIS member goes to WDW in a given year, it's still only be about 2% of the guests. Disney will listen to bookings and dollars spent per visitor. If those go down, they may adjust pricing. But unfortunately, it will take a lot of people changing their spending habits. As a PP quoted Disney execs, consumers are doing just the opposite. They are booking more rooms and paying more at the same time. Although complaining may make you feel better by getting it off your chest, in the grand scheme of things, it's futile.

Those Holiday prices have kept us from going to Disney during those times. Is it gouging when people willingly pay it? Personally, we don't find the extra cost provides enough additional value. However, many others must disagree as they willingly pay those prices.

Inexpensive and too expensive are very subjective terms. One could easily argue that WDW has never been either. Others could argue that it's always too expensive and thus, that's why they never go. Yet someone else can claim it's too inexpensive and they should charge even more (as previously mentioned, there was a thread about that a couple of days ago).

 

[WDSearcher]

In my opinion, yes. I consider finding it amusing to find others less able to afford their beloved Disney trip to be in poor taste.

Oh for goodness sake. I was laughing at the article and how expensive Universal was in light of all this talk about Disney pricing itself out of the market. I was NOT laughing at people who couldn't afford their beloved Disney vacations. I'm sorry. I take back my chuckle.

I believe there is a certain group of folks here on the DIS who have just been waiting for Disney to price themselves to a point where they can have Disney back from the huddled masses that have had access to it of late.

I'm not saying that's you. I'm just saying I find that just as distasteful a someone chucking about the price increases.

You're from Orlando. I'm assuming you have an annual pass. You probably even get a nice discount for living in Florida. If so, then you can get a year's worth of benefit out of your investment, spreading the increase over many outings. Don't think you got enough value for what you spent? Go back again. And again. But lots of folks don't live in Orlando and face 1) the ever escalating price of airfare along with 2) only being able to go with much less frequency, thereby putting all that expense into only one limited outing.

Sure. But I also have blackout dates. Many during the most popular times to visit. Not to mention that I live and work in Orlando. Which means that when I do go to Disney, it's usually on a Saturday or Sunday when it's far busier than it is on, say, a Wednesday. It's not like those of us who live here can just wake up in the morning and think, "I feel like going to Disney today." I can't just pop over for a few hours on a Tuesday afternoon, because I'm not on vacation. I live in Orlando, so I seldom (if ever) stay in a Disney resort, so there goes EMH out the window. Food is just as expensive to me and my FL Res Pass as it is to you -- probably moreso because I can't take advantage of free dining, since I'm not staying on property.

The increase is what it is. Disney is perfectly within their right to do whatever they want with the price. And we will all find a way to go or we won't. But I would never chuckle about someone becoming less able to afford it.

Again ... not chuckling about people who can't afford it. Chuckling because of all the posts on this thread and others about how greedy Disney is and how everyone's taking their business over to Universal and it's shiny new Harry Potter World ... only to discover that Universal is actually "the most expensive theme park in the country." I never chuckled at anyone who said "I can't afford to go to Disney and it's breaking my heart." If you can show me where I did, then I'd be happy to delete that post.

 

[jayandstacey]

I guess the proof will be in the pudding. But I disagree. Even those with jobs have been faced with:

1) no salary increases for many for up to 3 years now
2) skyrocketing health insurance deductions from paychecks
3) rising fuel costs
4) rising grocery costs
5) decreasing home values

Do the math. It doesn't take unemployment to make a family vacation expendable.

Yes, agreed - with both you and Gadget Rick. The economy, especially a drawn-out downturn like this one, does impact Disney.

My point is that Disney continues to edge to catering to the "whales" - those for whom such a downturn really doesn't matter too much. The items #1 to #5 - do they matter much if you have, say, $30 million in the bank? Not much, as even the house might only be 1/10 of that total.

But they are certainly the exception, not the rule. I guess I'm just pointing out that a recession doesn't have a one-to-one correlation to Disney. And I dare say the recent price increase is evidence of that.

 

[Planogirl]

Just read this in the Orlando Business Journal:

Universal Now Priciest Park in the US

ORLANDO (6/21/11) – After raising its ticket prices on Monday, Universal Orlando is now the priciest theme park in the nation in a nationwide comparison by consumer website MainStreet.com. MainStreet.com compared prices for single-day passes plus parking for two adults and two children for a Saturday visit. At Universal, a one-day ticket costs adults $85, kids $79 and parking $15 for a total of $343. Walt Disney World came in at No. 2 using the same guidelines, at $342. SeaWorld Orlando finished at No. 4, at $301.96.

So there.

These are the prices if you buy at the gate. You get a discount from Universal if you buy online and in that case WDW is still more expensive.

If you compare the prices for multi-day the price difference between the high (WDW) and low (Universal) becomes even more pronounced.

 

[jayandstacey]

You know, has anyone mentioned that the price increases are a very simple and direct way of reducing crowd sizes?

Purely anecdotal, but I read post after post about crowd sizes, about how 'time X' used to be virtually empty, etc.

Disney can't really control crowd sizes other than to cap them. But they can discourage more people from coming through higher prices. So maybe the higher ticket price is proof that Disney loves us and wants us to be happy???

 

[jayandstacey]

These are the prices if you buy at the gate. You get a discount from Universal if you buy online and in that case WDW is still more expensive.

If you compare the prices for multi-day the price difference between the high (WDW) and low (Universal) becomes even more pronounced.

It is still a fair comparison though...rack rate to rack rate, one-day to one-day.

The point is there's at least one scenario - and a common one at that - where Universal is more expensive than Disney.

To be more precise, Universal HAS to discount the multi-day tickets more because they don't have as robust a multi-day offering. Disney has more investment in the multi-day offering (with all the parks, DTD, water parks, etc) and thus Disney does become a higher valued offering into day 4, 5, 6 of the vacation.

And that's where Disney rings the register. Comparing one day, one park, one person - Disney's been hiking prices in a way few other companies could sustain. What allows them to do so is the package, the other stuff. You begin to pay way more to NOT have to change hotels. To NOT have to ever get in your car. To NOT ever have to go to the same park twice over 6 days.

These are the things that allow Disney to collect WAY more than Universal over the course of a vacation. But clearly, Universal and others are working to catch up, literally buying one hour back at a time.

 

[flicx]

I didn't ask if you thought crowds would be a concern for Disney. I asked how you thought it would affect the guest experience.

OK ... so ... let's raise ticket prices for a one-day, one-park ticket by a factor of three. I think back somewhere in the 290s you mentioned that other things had grown by about three times since 1985. So ... $17 x 3 = $51. It's now $51 to get into a park. That's $20 less than SeaWorld and about what it costs to get into Six Flags Over Georgia if you buy your ticket at the gate. This cheaper price means that a LOT more people are going to be able to come to the parks, including a lot more locals. APs and FL Resident APs will be a lot cheaper, so more people will have those as well. So the parks are going to be alot more crowded, and all the time. But there's not a lot of construction of new rides / attractions going on, because Disney is making less money. And if they're going to build anything, they're going to be building new resorts to house all the new people who can suddenly afford a Disney vacation. So there's bound to -- at least initially -- be a huge capacity problem. Long lines, not enough to do. Lines for everything -- bathrooms, Mickey bars, merchandise, water fountains. You think keeping bathrooms clean is a challenge now? Just wait!

Back around post 300, you said something about how bringing expensive new housing on Disney property was "hardly a move to improve 99% of the guests expierience!" So ... we've made WDW much more affordable to many more people, the parks are packed, lines are long, discounts are gone ... that's hardly a move to improve 99% of the guests experience either, is it? Sure, more people can get in. But if all they do is stand in line, how is that better?

But hold on a minute wdw searcher.If they had these prices in the 80's that were so reasonable and only had 2 parks the situations you refer to should have happened then.Heck they should have been busting at the seams with people not having a good expierience.Funny thing, I went during those years and the crowds are similar to what I've seen on my last trips.Disney made it work then and expanded at a faster rate,and yes there were discounts then too!They had a formula that worked then, follow the blueprint that worked.Also how much better of an expierience is it when you have to go less because they have increased prices twice as fast!

 

[WDSearcher]

You know, has anyone mentioned that the price increases are a very simple and direct way of reducing crowd sizes?

Purely anecdotal, but I read post after post about crowd sizes, about how 'time X' used to be virtually empty, etc.

Disney can't really control crowd sizes other than to cap them. But they can discourage more people from coming through higher prices. So maybe the higher ticket price is proof that Disney loves us and wants us to be happy???

My guess is that Disney will employ this more subtle type of crowd control in other areas as well. Say ... hard-ticket parties. People complain about how crowded MVMCP is, for example, but Disney knows that these parties are profitable and they don't want to cut that margin. So ... would it be worth it to people to pay a little more for the party if it meant that Disney capped the attendance at a lower level? Would you pay $10 more to have 3000 fewer people in the park?